About the DRK changes coming in 4.3

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Originally Posted by Tint

why would you do that? it's an important function to not lose the mana gain of syphon strike when your mana is capped. removing the dark arts effect means losing 140 potency in those situations.

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Syphon Strike gains you MP regardless of if you DA it or not. After it was added in SB it made delaying the DA being consumed for C&S (or now possibly even BS) by having SS consume it. That +140 potency is... fine, but it really screwed up the flow of the class (amongst other issues that do the same), and is part of why it feels so "DA spam" heavy now.

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Originally Posted by Tint

why would you do that? it's an important function to not lose the mana gain of syphon strike when your mana is capped. removing the dark arts effect means losing 140 potency in those situations.

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Syphon strike has always had the mp gain se just tacked on the dark arts potency increase in stormblood. As another poster said it messes with the flow of the job.

Yes siphon strike has always added to our mp, but now we need Siphon Strike to have a dark arts effect because we don't have an MP drain anymore. This leads to a larger amount of mp gained through our rotation than we can drain away with dark arts as in the 3.x rotation. That is what Tint means when he says it has an important function now. Removing the dark arts effect from siphon strike would need to be balanced with potency increases elsewhere, or a second way to frequently drain mana, since we would immediately start taking losses once we are forced to overcap our mana.

Personally I want to see blood weapon/price gain delirium as a trait, increase the speed buff of blood weapon to get extra hits in the buff naturally without skill speed, lower animation locks across the board, increase average combo potency by 10, increase bloodspiller by 20 potency, and increase carve and spit to 520 potency.

Maybe just increase the effect and cost of Dark Arts. 210 at 3600 is the same ratio, lets you dump harder, and reduces the frequency at which you need to hit it. Carve and SPit would need a similar increase though, or just have it be its own button without needing DA

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Maybe just increase the effect and cost of Dark Arts. 210 at 3600 is the same ratio, lets you dump harder, and reduces the frequency at which you need to hit it. Carve and SPit would need a similar increase though, or just have it be its own button without needing DA

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This results in an overall nerf since you will not be able to get off as many dark arts in buff windows as you can now.

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

This results in an overall nerf since you will not be able to get off as many dark arts in buff windows as you can now.

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I'd love to see the spreadsheet on this. In a given 10 second window you should be able to fit 3 Super Dark Arts (630) vs 4 Dark Arts (520)

Carve and Spit just needs to be 450 constantly. It has a 60s CD.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

I'd love to see the spreadsheet on this. In a given 10 second window you should be able to fit 3 Super Dark Arts (630) vs 4 Dark Arts (520)

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I’m not going to excel spreadsheet your idea for you. But I will look at the ideal trick attack for both current scheme and your suggestion. Since trick attack isn’t in our control as for where it starts in our GCD I assume we will get 4 GCDs in trick (5 if we are lucky but again not in our control).

Currently in trick attack we attempt to: Bloodspiller, Syphon Strike, Soul Eater, Bloodspiller with a carve and spit in there as well. 3 GCD dark arts and 1 dark arts on carve and spit (100 potency + 2.5 dark arts) and likely a plunge after the final bloodspiller. This is a total potency of 5.5*140 which is 770 potency from dark arts, with a combo potency of 1,350 and 200 from plunge. Total Potency 2,420.

In your scheme we will need to dark arts before a syphon strike, and hit syphon strike again during trick attack in order to get off the third dark arts for mana requirements. This is because in your scheme Dark Arts costs 3600 MP but Syphon strike has been unadjusted (still restoring 1200 mp). I imagine the rotation will look something like this: Soul Eater, Hard Slash, Syphon Strike, Bloodspiller. Again we will try to weave in a dark arts carve and spit as well as plunge. You said Carve and Spit would need adjusting, I’ll assume it continues to act like 2.5 dark arts. This means we get 4.5 dark arts equating to 945 potency, 200 potency from plunge, and a combo potency of 1200 (extra 100 added here from carve and spit). Total Potency: 2345

We lost 75 potency with your scheme in an “ideal” trick attack. Blood weapon will change the assumptions, and it lines up with every other trick attack, meaning that the ideal trick window will change every other trick along with changes when delirium may line up, this means most of our trick windows will change in every trick attack and enhance the micromanagement of our GCD and resources. Not to mention, if anything goes wrong, any timer becomes unaligned for any reason, more “ideal” rotations may not align and may not align again for the duration of the fight. This also doesn't address that we now need to go through 3 Syphon Strike combos in order to get 1 dark arts, as compared to 2 Syphon Strike Combos for 1 dark arts. I'm less sure how that will play out however, i expect they will balance each out (50% longer to do 50% more potency) but may make lining up your resources to pull off the ideal trick attack more difficult.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Carve and Spit just needs to be 450 constantly. It has a 60s CD.

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I agree, why do we need to add Dark arts to it, let it give mana AND do damage since its our "Offensive cooldown" skill

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Originally Posted by Chrono_Rising

Since trick attack isn’t in our control as for where it starts in our GCD I assume we will get 4 GCDs in trick (5 if we are lucky but again not in our control).

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Thank you. It seems a minor loss, but I suppose you could also make the ratio a bit more favorable.

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Originally Posted by WhyAmIHere

Syphon Strike gains you MP regardless of if you DA it or not. After it was added in SB it made delaying the DA being consumed for C&S (or now possibly even BS) by having SS consume it. That +140 potency is... fine, but it really screwed up the flow of the class (amongst other issues that do the same), and is part of why it feels so "DA spam" heavy now.

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Most prominently it affects setting up cooldowns with Dark Mind, as you can't prep for a tank buster GCDs in advance anymore. TBN being so incredibly picky on timing compounds this. Being able to "hold" a Dark Arts through Scourge, Delirium, or Syphon Strike was something I didn't realize was so useful until it was gone.

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Originally Posted by Valdegarde

Most prominently it affects setting up cooldowns with Dark Mind, as you can't prep for a tank buster GCDs in advance anymore. TBN being so incredibly picky on timing compounds this. Being able to "hold" a Dark Arts through Scourge, Delirium, or Syphon Strike was something I didn't realize was so useful until it was gone.

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...and i suddenly realized that I've missed being able to do that.