Is Tanking Boring?

eventually you reach the point where you forget that you have stun slash AoE stoppers when you're suddenly trust into a low level dungeoun because they never seem to work when you want them in high level dungeouns.. so that's fun I guess.

More often than not DPS have the easier time in most raid encounters. The complicated "rotation" is not something I take into concideration at all, nor is positioning, those things come natural... Melees for example are 95% muscle memory and 5% on the fly thinking. :/
Can't talk about ranged as I haven't played them on a serious level. Tanking is usually more involving than DPSing. If you want a harder time try healing this is imo one of the hardest roles because you have to take bad plays from others into concideration while trying to dps aswell. D:

The only role SQeenix seems to have an actual idea of why people would want to play is DPS. Tanks are simple DPS with some damage mitigation skills and healers are really simple DPS with some healing skills.

^ A friend of mine posted this since he no longer has forum access, and I want to elaborate since I hold the same opinion.

I don't feel like a tank or a healer in this game, I feel like a DPS that has added functionality. As a tank I am not trying to stay alive so much as I am trying to hold hate via DPS and built-in aggro tools. I have some one-off CDs that will protect me well if I use them right and lots of natural mitigation that make me better at taking hits than DPS jobs. But like OP said, I am focused on doing damage to be effective. The best tanks are the ones that can spend as much time possible in their DPS stances! (For that matter, the best healers are the ones who can heal only just enough to keep the party alive as they smash their DPS spells.) It's not the worst design decision, but I agree with OP that tanking is boring because you're playing like a DPS without the complexity that comes with actually being a DPS job. Tank combos are simplified to give them room for mitigation and support skills, but those skills are to be hoarded for busters or significant raid damage. There is no thought to defense outside of knowing when the boss will hit hard. So most of the time you are spamming your short DPS rotation as you wait for the next mechanic, which is not very high on my list of things I would call "fun".

I have nothing against people who like tanking in XIV, but for me and my friend at least, the way tanks play in this game don't mesh with how we want to play the role. I wish there was more emphasis on defending oneself than on simply holding hate without dying.

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Originally Posted by Hestzhyen

The only role SQeenix seems to have an actual idea of why people would want to play is DPS. Tanks are simple DPS with some damage mitigation skills and healers are really simple DPS with some healing skills.

^ A friend of mine posted this since he no longer has forum access, and I want to elaborate since I hold the same opinion.

I don't feel like a tank or a healer in this game, I feel like a DPS that has added functionality. As a tank I am not trying to stay alive so much as I am trying to hold hate via DPS and built-in aggro tools. I have some one-off CDs that will protect me well if I use them right and lots of natural mitigation that make me better at taking hits than DPS jobs. But like OP said, I am focused on doing damage to be effective. The best tanks are the ones that can spend as much time possible in their DPS stances! (For that matter, the best healers are the ones who can heal only just enough to keep the party alive as they smash their DPS spells.) It's not the worst design decision, but I agree with OP that tanking is boring because you're playing like a DPS without the complexity that comes with actually being a DPS job. Tank combos are simplified to give them room for mitigation and support skills, but those skills are to be hoarded for busters or significant raid damage. There is no thought to defense outside of knowing when the boss will hit hard. So most of the time you are spamming your short DPS rotation as you wait for the next mechanic, which is not very high on my list of things I would call "fun".

I have nothing against people who like tanking in XIV, but for me and my friend at least, the way tanks play in this game don't mesh with how we want to play the role. I wish there was more emphasis on defending oneself than on simply holding hate without dying.

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While I'm in complete agreement, especially in regards to tanking in this game (though I suspect I don't find the DPS-ness to be quite such a bad thing as others may), I have to wonder: if, for example, healers could contribute to party survival through more than just shields and heals, would that, too, increase healer-ness, or would only shielding/healing/applying percentile mitigation be acceptable?

For instance, one of the things I tend to love about a support role in other games is how much I see the game through as many perspectives, checklists, and priority orders as I have teammates, rather than solely my own (plus maybe one or two I depend on for bonus damage windows, etc.). But when that role is reduced to a "healer", it tends to feel more like I'm staring at health bars, not the actual battle, and I feel far less engaged than even when on a pure and independent DPS. Compare that to being able to knock back enemies to misalign their would-be fatal blows, CC, applying speed bonuses, increasing damage to reach significant new breakpoints, and the like. I find the latter, where support is not limited to healing alone, not only allows but even requires you to feel like part of the battle.

When enmity-tanking is removed from the equation, such as in PvP and especially when healers are not intentionally overtuned (compare the HPS of Overwatch healers, which each have far less potential throughput than any DPS, for instance, to that of XIV healers, despite needing roughly only the same portion over the party), survival and damage both becomes group tasks, but I don't feel as if any specialization is lost for that added breadth (or depth, in finding the best tactic available or the nearest and final win conditions of a team fight) of processing.

I'd really love to see PvE move away from traditional trinity-based enmity stacking and move more towards the roles of tanks as in PvP, to thwart enemy offensive attempts and secure their own. I suspect that may be the single most necessary shift by which to see a tank that really feels like a tank, and a party that truly feels like it needs to work together.

Quite frankly, yes. To me at least.
Paladin is clunky and slow, even if a very effective tank. Same could be said of Warrior.
Dark Knight can be engaging with it dancing around the Dark Arts ability but that only lasts like a few seconds as the MP you need to pull that off runs off ridiculously fast. DRK has some MP management abilities but near all of them have long cooldowns so you get like 15 seconds of fun then it goes flat until the cooldowns go back up again. Also, personal gripe, the way the Dark Knight holds its greatsword is horrendous. I REALLY want to be able to change that. Hold that heavy thing like Cloud or Caius do, for the love of god.
And, not a single one of the tanks projects the "powerful" vibe near almost all other jobs give off. This is what kills it for me.

In terms of aesthetics, I feel like the three tanks are actuallu the strongest looking physical jobs in the game...

That's not the point of the thread, but Erudito had me confused x) Anyway, I think it's right that we're just glorified dps, and yeah, that's a shame. Especially when, for example, you had more mitigation skills in 2.X than in 4.X... I've recently done T9 sync with some friends, and it's actually a mess, not because the party is bad, but simply because back when I first did it, as PLD, I had many more CDs that were actually all used. The more time passes, the more we're becoming damage dealers, and that's a shame.

I think the whole game needs to take a step back in damage expectancies... In the second coil of bahamut, the dps checks were hard, but not in any way hard as Sigma savage dps checks are. Why ? Because now, everyone's expected to have 99.5% uptime. In T7, you have a kiter that's just spending most of his time kiting to make sure an add is in proper position. That guy has a low dps, but that's alright, because the focus was on mechanics, not on damage. And, guess what ? It actually took a longer time for people to beat the second coil than for them to beat SigmaSavage.

The whole damage meta is a wreck that's slowly simplifying things to the core.

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Originally Posted by ArcaviusGreyashe

That's not the point of the thread, but Erudito had me confused x) Anyway, I think it's right that we're just glorified dps, and yeah, that's a shame. Especially when, for example, you had more mitigation skills in 2.X than in 4.X... I've recently done T9 sync with some friends, and it's actually a mess, not because the party is bad, but simply because back when I first did it, as PLD, I had many more CDs that were actually all used. The more time passes, the more we're becoming damage dealers, and that's a shame.

I think the whole game needs to take a step back in damage expectancies... In the second coil of bahamut, the dps checks were hard, but not in any way hard as Sigma savage dps checks are. Why ? Because now, everyone's expected to have 99.5% uptime. In T7, you have a kiter that's just spending most of his time kiting to make sure an add is in proper position. That guy has a low dps, but that's alright, because the focus was on mechanics, not on damage. And, guess what ? It actually took a longer time for people to beat the second coil than for them to beat SigmaSavage.

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I don't think any of this is accurate. ARR PLD didn't have better cooldowns than SB PLD, the problem is that you're comparing a tank at level cap to a tank 5/7ths to the level cap. At 52 you get Sheltron and block works in magic damage, which is so much better than Foresight and Stoneskin. It's the same on the other tanks, their mitigation at 70 is better than ARR/HW. The game just isn't balanced around old raids any more.

The reason people had low dps in some Coil fights is because they (including me) were bad at the game. Nothing about T7's design stopped a BRD or SMN from having max uptime while kiting, people were just bad and could only focus on mechanics. Coil fights were all mechanically simple compared to the third and fourth fights of most tiers in Alex/Omega, and they would be no trouble at all for groups that can clear Alex/Omega.

Personally I think tanks are fine. Their DPS rotations are kinda blah (PLD in particular) but that's fine, you usually have other things to worry about too which makes it a bit more interesting. Increasing the complexity of the DPS rotations would be A-OK by me, but since they changed zerk/irzerk WAR I'm guessing that's not really on the table lol.

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Originally Posted by ArcaviusGreyashe

I think the whole game needs to take a step back in damage expectancies... In the second coil of bahamut, the dps checks were hard, but not in any way hard as Sigma savage dps checks are. Why ? Because now, everyone's expected to have 99.5% uptime. In T7, you have a kiter that's just spending most of his time kiting to make sure an add is in proper position. That guy has a low dps, but that's alright, because the focus was on mechanics, not on damage. And, guess what ? It actually took a longer time for people to beat the second coil than for them to beat SigmaSavage.

The whole damage meta is a wreck that's slowly simplifying things to the core.

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Having high uptime isn't that hard once you get used to the fight, and in no way shape or form are the Sigmascape DPS checks hard as long as people don't die. Furthermore to say the current meta is wrecking things seems a little weird given the fact that the meta has existed in its current form since Gordias. We've had more time with tanks being DPS oriented than not by now so if it was going to wreck things you'd think it would have happened by now.

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Originally Posted by Erudito

Also, personal gripe, the way the Dark Knight holds its greatsword is horrendous. I REALLY want to be able to change that. Hold that heavy thing like Cloud or Caius do, for the love of god.
And, not a single one of the tanks projects the "powerful" vibe near almost all other jobs give off. This is what kills it for me.

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The stance used on DRK is a real guard stance called Ochs (Or Ox) It's a highly defensive stance, which makes sense seeing how DRK is a tank. Though one thing I've noticed is that DRK does like to switch to other stances during attacks, but its default is Ochs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBmwNyOXbiU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRjncraV6ak

Cloud uses this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-UrC3-sEgE

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Originally Posted by 347SPECTRE

The stance used on DRK is a real guard stance called Ochs (Or Ox) It's a highly defensive stance, which makes sense seeing how DRK is a tank. Though one thing I've noticed is that DRK does like to switch to other stances during attacks, but its default is Ochs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBmwNyOXbiU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRjncraV6ak

Cloud uses this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-UrC3-sEgE

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The Ochs stance also allows for some pretty nasty counter attacks. Counter-attacking, being Dark Knight's old shtick (Low Blow, Reprisal, Dark Dance), further reinforcing it using that stance.

I have been tanking for a long ass time in general and there's one thing that grinds my gear in XIV: the obsession for more DPS. High numbers are great but it never had the same appeal to me as mitigation. The difficulty in this game is all over the place so it's no wonder the community prefers more DPS over, well anything else when there's no need for extra mitigation or healing. It doesn't help that tanks and healers, due to job system, are stuck in a limbo between pseudo dps and main role (main role my ass)

I enjoy tanking in this game. I don't enjoy being pressured into a DPS role when it's not the reason i play a tank to begin with. There's a time and place for everyone in a raid to push DPS but when it's all that matters, there's a fundamental problem in the game design (holy trinity)

Edit: Sometimes i see people in my FC complaining and laughing at random tanks doing X DPS and i just want to say something really bad at them just out of spite.

Edit 2: I think S-E was right on the money with Coil when it came to mitigation, healing and DPS requirements. Shame it went downhill during and after Alex regarding raid design philosophy in this game.

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Originally Posted by Vurtney

I have been tanking for a long ass time in general and there's one thing that grinds my gear in XIV: the obsession for more DPS. High numbers are great but it never had the same appeal to me as mitigation. The difficulty in this game is all over the place so it's no wonder the community prefers more DPS over, well anything else when there's no need for extra mitigation or healing. It doesn't help that tanks and healers, due to job system, are stuck in a limbo between pseudo dps and main role (main role my ass)

I enjoy tanking in this game. I don't enjoy being pressured into a DPS role when it's not the reason i play a tank to begin with. There's a time and place for everyone in a raid to push DPS but when it's all that matters, there's a fundamental problem in the game design (holy trinity)

Edit: Sometimes i see people in my FC complaining and laughing at random tanks doing X DPS and i just want to say something really bad at them just out of spite.

Edit 2: I think S-E was right on the money with Coil when it came to mitigation, healing and DPS requirements. Shame it went downhill during and after Alex regarding raid design philosophy in this game.

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I wouldn't say it 'went downhill'. In 2.0 players were bad. Tanks often wore full parry gear because most people honestly thought it was good, not because it was ACTUALLY good. Back before there were parsers, stat weights (though those have been replaced by better means too) people just fumbled around and took shots in the dark on how to play. Stance dancing didn't exist. Coordination between party members was bad. Damage was a complete unknown.

We didn't have the knowledge we do now. World 1st groups trash new raids in a matter of hours or days because we understand how to play better. The 1st few raids took significantly longer to clear for world 1st and regular groups because we were ignorant and bad. SE upped the DPS requirements in alex, but dropped them right back down for sigma/delta. The fights today have really, really low bars for DPS relative to what players can actually achieve. The playerbase just got better and Turtle Tanks got left behind.

This to me was more a result of the golden age of a new MMO. The 1st couple patches when everything is new, everyone is bad, and no one knows anything. Vanilla WoW. FFXI at JP (and again at NA) release. FFXIV 2.X. The early days are always played completely differently because people don't understand the game well enough to optimize. Over time these fresh experiences and innovative times fizzle out because theres no innovation when the game is unpacked and analyzed. It just steadily marches towards optimization.

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Originally Posted by Izsha

The 1st few raids took significantly longer to clear for world 1st and regular groups because we were ignorant and bad..

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I'd argue it was because mechanics were obscure AF.

Notice how Fireball from Twintania hasn't made a return, or Dive Bombs are now only in uniform areas as well as the starting point clearly telegraphed? Boss Arenas are strictly circular or Square and flat?

I personally find tanking "not very interesting" (but not boring) in FF14 because you're just a subpar dps with a few CD you pop there and there.

Looking at forums, tanks only think about their dps, in game they only think about their dps.
In other words, most tank play as dps. (the only difference is that the boss is on them)

If the tank survival was a more active task, I would find it more interesting.
For instance, The Blackest Night is my favorite skill by miles in SB.(for tanks)
It absorbs quite a lot, has a short cd and requires timing, in otherwords, a poorly executed TBN will do little whereas a good one will significantly improve your survival.

For me at the very least, if tank were more centered around actively caring about their survival (to the point where you'd see a huge difference between a good and bad tank like you do for dps performing well or poorly) I'd find them interesting and more fun to play.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

I'd argue it was because mechanics were obscure AF.

Notice how Fireball from Twintania hasn't made a return, or Dive Bombs are now only in uniform areas as well as the starting point clearly telegraphed? Boss Arenas are strictly circular or Square and flat?

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They weren't any more difficult to follow, however, than any other form of stack symbol or non-indicated linear AoE made since, however. They could as easily have made fireball the stack marker we typically see today; they simply opted for something a bit more obvious due to both added size and therein room for appendable arrow elements to indicate directionality. The returning charge on the chariot fight of Rab, while insignificant, also follows the same linear AoE pattern without any zonal indicator. There's also a large difference between no zonal indicator and "not clearly telegraphed". At most, T9 experienced the latter. Twin's dives were straightforward.

Personally I hugely miss the idea of an arena not necessarily being perfectly square or circular.

I've never had a problem with tanking really. I like that I can out dps a dps and help carry dps if need be.

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Originally Posted by Luin

Second of all, Dark Knight is the worst example for this. You literally have zero mitigation outside of roleactions until Level 70 (Dark Mind doesn't count, most trash isn't magic AA). You also lost most of your Level 50-60 kit and it was reworked into 60-70 kit.

DRK isn't even remotely playable until 68.

If you wanted to talk about tanking being boring, you should level WAR. Or even PLD. Heck I especially recommend PLD. You'll clearly see just how inferior DRK is, especially since DRK is literally JUST a carboncopy of Paladin but with none of the defensive cooldowns or DoT, and only 1 stance instead of 2. DRK is just PaladinLITE, until you get The Blackest Night. Leveling DRK is the worst leveling in the game.

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Shadow Wall is innate to DRK (learned at lv46), and Dark Mind does count whether you like it or not. Both abilities are learned prior to level 50, so a DRK does not have to get to max level to learn how to use these abilities effectively. And by the time they do get to max level, they will separate themselves from sheep DRKs having learned how to use them optimally.

I get that you're totally bitter right now, but your opinion does not reflect the true state that DRK is in, it merely echoes everyone's frustrations with it. The fact of the matter is that the job can perform its role in any content just fine. If its current design bores you, that is fine but don't go off saying it isn't even playable until xx level.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Shadow Wall is innate to DRK (learned at lv46), and Dark Mind does count whether you like it or not. Both abilities are learned prior to level 50, so a DRK does not have to get to max level to learn how to use these abilities effectively. And by the time they do get to max level, they will separate themselves from sheep DRKs having learned how to use them optimally.

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yeah true, there are some ice spirits in stone- and dusk vigil where you can use dark mind and uhm... ... ... ... ...lots... of other opportunities to learn how to use dark mind before hitting 70!

i play DRK since 2015 and still have no idea how to tell what is magical and what is physical. i know when i parry it's physical. and when i use dark mind and didn't get one shottet it's probably magical... or not... who knows? hard to tell without a combat analysis program. at least there are guides and kill videos where i can see when people use dark mind for tank busters...

but dark mind is basically non existant for casuals in casual content, because it's simply too difficult to use it properly due to the fact that the game doesn't tells you what damage is incoming and how properly you are mitigating.

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Originally Posted by Tint

Snip

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Combat log in chat window.

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Originally Posted by Tint

yeah true, there are some ice spirits in stone- and dusk vigil where you can use dark mind and uhm... ... ... ... ...lots... of other opportunities to learn how to use dark mind before hitting 70!

i play DRK since 2015 and still have no idea how to tell what is magical and what is physical. i know when i parry it's physical. and when i use dark mind and didn't get one shottet it's probably magical... or not... who knows? hard to tell without a combat analysis program. at least there are guides and kill videos where i can see when people use dark mind for tank busters...

but dark mind is basically non existant for casuals in casual content, because it's simply too difficult to use it properly due to the fact that the game doesn't tells you what damage is incoming and how properly you are mitigating.

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My DRK is level 60. So by your logic, I don't know how to use Dark Mind. Let's never mind that my DRK was 60 before 4.0. Let's never mind that many players have friends to run outdated content synced or at min ilv. Do you really believe that players are incapable of reading a tooltip, and learning how to play the game in anything but savage/ultimate?

If I'm healing a DRK and he/she throws up Dark Mind against the elementals in Stone/Dusk Vigil or Pharos Sirius, guess what I am going to know about that player? I am going to know that they know how to use Dark Mind. No, it isn't necessary to use it here, I can heal through the damage easily if they don't. But they fact that they used it there, and only there tells me they know what they're doing. It also tells me they don't go complacent in casual content, which is a really good way to get my comm. Leading by example is a really great way to get players to learn things properly, and it makes no difference which content this is.

Learning what attacks are physical/magic based comes with experience. This doesn't apply to all attacks but generally speaking, auto attacks are physical, and if the mob has to cast it, good chance it is magical. But it doesn't take a genius to deduce one attack from the other. What the game doesn't offer immediately is available in hindsight. You as a player, have the ability to record your playthroughs and look at your battle logs. You don't, and shouldn't wait until level 70 and toughing it out with Kefka God mode to do this. Having Dark Mind on muscle memory should happen WELL before that.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

My DRK is level 60. So by your logic, I don't know how to use Dark Mind. Let's never mind that my DRK was 60 before 4.0.

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no, by your logic you should have learned how to use Dark Mind before hitting 60. you were talking about people in the leveling process, not people who already played DRK at max lvl (wich was in your case lvl 60). obviously the more experienced you are with the game the easier you can adapt to the seperating magical and physical damage thing. but someone who just startet with tanking - or the game - will not have it that easy to learn all the stuff at once, especially when the game doesn't tells you when you get hit with magic and when with physical hits.

and no, i have never read the battle log. so. much. text. i know some people who do that occasionally in savage progression, but only when someone died and it is unclear why.

but okay, i want to learn and understand that magical damage stuff. so i opened a new chat window with only the damage i recieved and the damage the enemy did to me inside, went to some elementals and startet fighting. but it doesn't tell me that i get hit with magic damage. so either something is wrong here, or these exergons do physiscal damage o.ô;

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Originally Posted by Tint

snip...

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The point is though is that I am still not level 70, and I would be hard pressed to believe that I don't know how to use Dark Mind. I did say that my DRK was 60 before 4.0, but I never said I did any savage/ex content with it. I would still be hard pressed to believe that I do not know how to use Dark Mind. Abilities are not like punishing mechanics that are learned by getting burned by them. In the case of Dark Mind, all it takes is reading the tooltip. After that, like you say, it is differentiating between physical and magical. There are plenty of both types in all content.

You are correct, the logs don't say if an attack you sustained was physical or magical, and if you have to guess it's better to use a defensive CD that just mitigates all damage. Another thing I can suggest is to think about the nature of the attack. As an example Cyclops type boss's 100oz Swing or Odin's Sanngetall are both busters that have a cast bar but are physical attacks that Dark Mind won't help with, but when thinking about their animations for these attacks, would you think they're magical?

I think it's ambiguous things like this that makes the game interesting. It doesn't hold a player's hand through everything and leaves a lot of the learning up to cold hard experience.

"Readies" = physical attack charge.
"Casting" = magical attack charge

"Uses" = instant physical attack
"casts" = instant magic attack

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

"Readies" = physical attack charge.
"Casting" = magical attack charge

"Uses" = instant physical attack
"casts" = instant magic attack

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thanks^^

still not very intuitive, but at least it's something i guess... o.ô;

Tanking isn't boring, but it can be grating when you do more damage than your DPS, even on tank stance. I know Fell Cleave has good potency, but having to break players out of fetters because they don't use a basic rotation gets annoying.

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Originally Posted by Kavrick

Now i recently leveled my DRK to level 62, and i think i\\'ve realized why there are so few tank players, now to start this off i\\'m gonna bring up wow, and not in a million years would i ever ask SE to take advice from the trainwreck that is the current state of wow, but they did get one thing right, and that\\'s tanking.

In wow, for example, the warrior tank has three abilities, shield slam, devastate and shield block, now these three abilities work together in pretty good synergy, shield block increases your blocking chance and at the same

1/X

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Like anything in life, it’s up to you to decide how entertaining or boring something is. For instance, I currently think that FF14 is über boring and I’m not doing anything to change it or make it fun. Maybe this upcoming patch... FYI this thread is boring

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Originally Posted by Alsbet

Anything can be boring if you let it be boring.

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^ this. You control your path. Make your own decisions!

As predicted the skill 'pruning' rendered the somewhat tedious at times, utterly braindead afterward. Whats hilarious too, is that if you look back in time to the WoW forums (and a good many other games besides) you'll see the same complaints. Droves of people crying out for vanilla, because of dumbed down nonsense that it appears nobody even wanted. At first I chalked it up to 'vocal minorities' - but WoW showed, after many years - that almost every single player resented it. Which is why it began to fall away. In retrospect it was actually the skilless/lazy crybabies who moaned and whined; and were subsequently pandered to.

I also noticed some circular comment going round saying 'classes are dumbed down, so that content can become more challenging'. Oh dear. Thats what they said in those other games too. Never materialized and post that, many of them are now utterly dead.

People thrive on difficulty/adaptation and change. Which isn't always the same as saying that they will 'like' it at the time. On the contrary people hate change generally. But they also like progress and achievement. A feeling of purpose. Which is what has rendered games like ESO so fruitless at endgame atm for example.

I don't know who they are trying to appeal to exactly. They say 'casuals' but many of them are sat in other games, telling me they left out of boredom. Not because the stories arent great; but because the content takes no real effort whatsoever.

People didn't want bloat. Understandable. But to prune to the point that your game is basically nauseating unless you are endgame (and even then its questionable at 70 for some, from what I understand) is quite ridiculous.

FF is still the best current offering in todays 5 button mad monkey button spam smash games, or 'action combat' which ever you prefer. But its not going to retain players. Bring back some depth, or lose most of what you have. The past speaks volumes on that front and considering the so called reading into WoW that FF devs do, im surprised they havent noted the failure of its pruning efforts over there.

My 50 cents:

Tanking, boring?

More like keeping me on my toes every run because people seem never happy and tend to nag about every single, tiny thing and pixel move I do (if they talk at all) - when I just want to take a break from DPS to chill out as tank. Very fun to tank under these circumstances.
And yes, I am considerate about my healer's capacity (gear check at start) and still get rough, somewhat ungrateful players.

Tanking is a bit boring, but, tanking also helps get past stupid dps queue times via tank privilege and if I keep getting partnered with newbie tanks or tanks who don't know how to tank and hold aggro at lvl 70 (level boosters), then I'll tank since I know I'm better than them anyway. Tanking is a job of responsibility. You're role is to minimize as much damage as possible, manage your defensive cds properly and hold aggro at all times so the mobs aren't tapping your healer's a** or slapping the dps around. Tanking can be fun for most though. I prefer healing/dps more than tanking, but i can't deny that tanking rewards my efforts with cracked clusters and gil bonuses from roulette jobs in need. Slightly boring, but it has it's benefits.


/2 cents

I like it when tanking is boring. It means nobody has run off and done something stupid to get us all killed.

Tanking isn't boring except you only want to keep hate.

I started playing DRK when HW came out and i loved it but after SB came out i just stopped tanking because DRK is simply no fun for me anymore.

I think it depends on the content you're doing, and skill level too; though I personally am seriously considering just plain not doing raids any more on any class with current loot rules blocking a raise in ilvl and therefor progress in content to boot with requirements as they are. There is simply no point in doing raids with current loot drops and ilvl requirements, as your tank gear is more likely to go to the healer/dps turning it in for seals than to those of us returning or new who may actually need it for their main class towards queing to new content. It's less wasteful on your time and effort to just forever dungeon. Not only do you actually get gear you need; but the currency is better. I wouldn't mention that, expect that.. with raids all but removed from the ques for those of us who can't que with a full party? That really does affect how you can end up feeling about playing a tank class.

Dungeon wise.. it can be very boring at times once you get used to timing, position, and mechanics. Otherwise the job -is- to stand there and take hits and keep things' attention after all, no matter what you're queing for. That's pretty much it, so if you're not prepared for that or don't like that idea.. my suggestion dumbed down and simplified is this: you're playing the wrong class.

Tanking is often much more chill than other classes because our classes are designed to do exactly that. Unless you're playing through high end raids. XD That stuff can get hectic.. last section of Alex was freakin great for tanks at drop in that respect; and I hope they keep that bar high again as Omega progresses.. because I freakin loved timing my LB for a change, and having to deal with transformer jet kid's targeted tankbuster when off-tanking.


Anyroad. We are meant to be front line, first aggro to hold junk still and turn it the right direction (hopefully) so the rest don't get hit in the face with cleaves and crap on the aggro table that can be avoided by doing our job: the (hopefully) sometimes provided high/impatient dps (yes that needed a / as any tank who's done pugs with pulling spellcasters and other derps while trying to make a quick bathroom run before pull or grinding out an ilvl can tell you) also remember the part of theirs where they control their own aggro levels according to the group and tank on hand.

The problem with comparing any wow class with FF classes is that definition between them, and the (hopefully) continuing backlash of trying to deviate too far outside the class' intended duty. I played wow for 10 years and left because of the lack of those definitions, where a holy pally could and often still can tank, dps, and heal the content because hey.. classes didn't matter in that game at all when I stopped maining that game. Because who needs to learn their role when they can just derp through everything, right? It's gotten a little better in wow? But not by much. There are few if any consequences for trying to tank as a hunter, heal as a prot pally or leave your partymates in the dirt as a healer to DPS. While the aggro and damage rules in FF aren't as stringent as they were when I started and honestly could use some serious work in the way of healers dpsing their parties to death since HW days between community harassment I've seen and mechanic slide? I still prefer the fine line between the classes. When I choose a tank class, I want to tank. When I dps, I don't expect (nor should I) to have the boss in my face. If I ever choose a healing class, it won't be to deal damage; it'll be to restore damage taken.

Basically, I expect to be able to do the job as advertised. There are over a dozen to choose from for this reason, with different modes of play; and expecting otherwise makes those roles/classes pointless and useless.

Otherwise, what's the point of choosing a specific job class type if you aren't going to play that job class out?


So .. yeah. If you can't stand the standing around as a tank.. try another class; cause that's 75% of what we do; and what we're supposed to do, for the most part.

Recent player, so far going on two months. I started out as a Lala BLM and was very interested in RDM. However, shortly upon unlocking and playing I simply wasn't digging it's play style (I was wishing they could jump into and remain in combat per use of skills more than they do) I switched to NIN. Better challenge and more to do/lookout for. However, being the type of person i am I kept looking around to see if there was another class that could catch my attention as well. Enter a new char ROE DK. What set this apart for me was the challenge, reading over the forums on all the classes, DK seemed to be the one people couldn't wrap their minds around one way or another and I was looking to challenge myself further. Having reached 70 about a week and a half ago, it's only now I can say I feel confident as my role as Tank and when to use grit (when the situation calls and no it doesn't always call for it), to be fair there was a level of anxiety in the beginning because of those special people who don't understand we ALL started somewhere and would rather bash then teach/help. Water off my back though, having experienced the DK before this recent hotfix I can only say i'm happier given what they've done and their willingness to bring it to par with the communities expectations. Tanking itself is fun and rewarding with the right group and combat at least from the point of view of DK is engaging enough like the NIN was before. One cool story I would like to share in my small time playing and tanking is one that happened quite recently this past Saturday. Me and a friend decided to do a roulette, well we got World of Darkness. Everything is fine and the duty is going by fast, until we get to the last boss. Again, beginning of fight starts out fine (I instantly get to its very side and start letting it rip). Smooth sailing until the boss reaches around 10%. As I'm bashing away on the very side, by the edge. I hear my partner say "damn I died....oh nooo It's extending the wipe" I look up and everyone was wiped out.......I look at my health, pop my last rampart for the fight (hit, hit, my health drops below 1/4, tagged again) pop walking dead and keep firing off......that day....I was the symbol of Clutch, and deservingly earned my puff of darkness. This after just being shown the wonderful mash up of Boku no hero academia and Final Fantasy 14 lmao. My night was made and I've main DK since.

My biggest reason I don't tank is honestly because I do find it boring. I don't like the combo system as it both feels constrictive and it feels to slow. I like the NIN and MNK combat styles since their speed buffs to actions makes the actions feel more flowing, much like the casters where usually you can cast one spell after another as each one finishes casting. You don't have this awkward pause between actions like you do with the three current tanks due to the instant attacks being limited by the GCD.

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Originally Posted by Malkria

My biggest reason I don't tank is honestly because I do find it boring. I don't like the combo system as it both feels constrictive and it feels to slow. I like the NIN and MNK combat styles since their speed buffs to actions makes the actions feel more flowing, much like the casters where usually you can cast one spell after another as each one finishes casting. You don't have this awkward pause between actions like you do with the three current tanks due to the instant attacks being limited by the GCD.

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DRK is very fast paced, especially after the 4.3 fixes. Maybe not as fast as MNK and NIN, but faster than many other jobs.

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Originally Posted by DBelmont

DRK is very fast paced, especially after the 4.3 fixes. Maybe not as fast as MNK and NIN, but faster than many other jobs.

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I dunno, I still felt the same kind of 'pause' from it as I got from the other two between attacks. It's not about keeping track of stuff it's that the attacks and animations don't line up with the GCD which leaves this noticeable pause between attacks. Which is why I like the NIN and MNK so much as melee jobs and not the others. I don't know if it's lag or not, but every tank job has it and it's one of the reasons tanking feels awkward to me; well that and how much my character grunts during attacks and how that makes her sound...awkward to play.

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Originally Posted by Malkria

well that and how much my character grunts during attacks and how that makes her sound...awkward to play.

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LOL. It's NOT what you think honey!! But seriously, tanks are purposely designed to have much simpler rotations than DPS classes. This is just because tanks have a bit more to pay attention to than just their own damage. Tankbusters, enemy positioning, enmity control, add pickup, tankswaps, etc. They get to do all that stuff on top of their simplified rotations. All that being said, the speed of the DRK playstyle is significantly faster than PLD or WAR, which makes it preferable for those players who like that kind of thing. But the rotation will never be as nuanced or complex as any of the DPS classes (except maybe BRD lol)

he iv been gladiator at level 50 perhaps 48......... in 1.0 before they even released paladin i had more fun tanking in that version of a game, So sad, everytime i try to play another job i feel dissatisfied because of how the world is built spam dungeons.... maybe am getting very old for mmo's. FFXIV feels like destiny 2 for now i miss 1.0 and 2.0, but meh...

hello Kavrick,

I understand why you questioning the role of tank,however,there are a few things that you can do to improve your overall experience.the way you run a dungeon,raid or trial can affect wildly you experience in said instance.the DRK has a set of utility,albeit reduced compared to the other two,that will help your party overcome certain obstacles.i can think of The Blackest Night,in your case,Creates a barrier around self that absorbs damage totaling 20% of your maximum HP, or around a party member that absorbs damage totaling 10% of your maximum HP..now you can use this on you as your CD rotation.
when on a party member that's in need you might have very well just helped out your healer,this can even apply to trials when there is a tank swap before a tank buster,you can shield your fellow tank and therefore mitigating some of that damage ensuring his survivability for the rest of the fight.now the healer only needs to top him off with the rest of the party,instead of having to use single target heals to bring him back up.

this is just and example of what tanks can and should do.after a point in the game you are really required to use your utility. and that makes things interesting.one last advice would be to level your other tanks as well, so you can learn the broader spectrum of tanking for this game.and of course they have their own utility that brings so much to a group

i hope this answer your question and will help you in the future,tanking is not boring but you can make it so,it's up to you to do your research and find ways,that fight your style,to improve your tanking and the experience of the party you take with you.