Im Done

You know whats interesting? The pvp subforum currently has more threads than any other in the english "gameplay" section.

Nobody expects the game to be "pvp-centric". Its a themepark mmorpg. There are going to be attractions that you aren't interested in or don't enjoy. Either slog through them or accept that you cant do everything. Or go play candy crush.

Really sick of these posts. "I hate pvp. Make it go away so I can have all the glamours!!". That or people just like being contradictory because its the internet. There have always been a sprinkling of posts like this here, I guess now theres just fewer active pvp'ers posting relevant discussion to drown them out.

Also

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Originally Posted by Kisama

Damn, there goes one of the greats.

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What he said. Sorry to see you go :(

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Originally Posted by BloodRubyXII

What changed?

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They tightened the matchmaking?

It's a constant back and forth between tighter matchmaking and better queues. The most recent change is from 4.1 patch notes:
"Matching algorithms have been adjusted for the Feast (4 on 4 - Ranked Match) to ensure players are matched with others of the same or an adjacent tier."

Before that, you had a two-tier spread. I can't remember what was before that, only that it keeps going back and forth.

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Originally Posted by Divinemights

I also can't really recall any pvp centric mmorpg still survive on the market, can you?

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Eve and lastly, I don't know why you are specifically targeting me but here it is. I have heard every single counter argument that people have given the PvP community. First we get "FFXIV isn't PvP centric". Next we get "If you want PvP go play Overwatch". So my sarcasm flew over your head and I wasn't even replying to you. I was replying to someone else and I responded to that with sarcasm and common counter arguments I see on these forums when it comes to PvP. So continue to come at me when you aren't even really contributing anything of worth.

People should know by now that PvP is an optional content, eventually it will always be terrible by others experiences, bringing FFXI into play is really meaningless do to other content having better rewards, and just like any other game with achievements most people do them for something shiny. If people want PvP so badly start PvP LS , or go play something else. If people quit do to poor PvP I say good riddance, this is not a game that focuses on PvP. Now if they want to RP a PvP their is always an option to do so without relying on queue.

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

People should know by now that PvP is an optional content and other content having better rewards.

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The only mandatory content in this game is the story and that is only for the relevant expansion but if I just want to PvP all I need to do is hit 30 and thus the story is optional. Other than that everything else in this game is optional content, including raids and extreme trials. Better rewards is totally based upon perception and thus irrelevant to the conversation at hand. So get out of here with that noise.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

The only mandatory content in this game is the story and that is only for the relevant expansion but if I just want to PvP all I need to do is hit 30 and thus the story is optional. Other than that everything else in this game is optional content, including raids and extreme trials. Better rewards is totally based upon perception and thus irrelevant to the conversation at hand. So get out of here with that noise.

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Everyone pays a subscription so yes you can view everything as optional, however for the majority of players we have different views. By own means pls go at 30 and PvP but if people complain there are options for them. Pvp Fc's, LS, ect. People quitting over PvP, queue wait times, or even claiming content is unfair because they don't get their way is just childish. Being you have spent enough time in this game you should know that by now. People will always complain it's not fair in one way or another. The match up are unfair, people don't give me a chance, they complain about my game style, blah blah blah. I mean come on in PvP their are winners and losers and the incentive is not high enough to say it takes priority. So stick with your ideals I don't pay your membership, I'm just given a perspective for over all how I and many others see it. Hence Good riddance to people who rage quit. Why not instead just take a petition on an idea to be implemented. Example Arena in Golden Saucer with unique prices that are actually useful to players rather than glamor with a world ranking system or special benefits for being rank number 1? Must defend title every week ect. You can call it FFXIV the PVP chronicles. ( sarcasm ). So tell me what item is currently worth getting in PVP that can actually be used as gear and worth it?

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

More garbage.

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You really do just type for the sake of typing don't you. Take a gander at the PvE jobs section and all the people rage quitting because their job isn't Meta or SE won't look at it. They have options to and I don't see you chiming in there. This is the reason why we play this game and because there are more aspects to this game then mindlessly doing some activity. People have the right to complain as they are paying consumers of the product and yes they get to pay with their wallet. I am not going to stop them and it is your view that there are options. To some PvE is way to repetitive and less dynamic. Others have the opposite view and you are part of the problem why the PvP community feels disenfranchised. Flat out just gave "Go play another game"

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

You really do just type for the sake of typing don't you. Take a gander at the PvE jobs section and all the people rage quitting because their job isn't Meta or SE won't look at it. They have options to and I don't see you chiming in there. This is the reason why we play this game and because there are more aspects to this game then mindlessly doing some activity. People have the right to complain as they are paying consumers of the product and yes they get to pay with their wallet. I am not going to stop them and it is your view that there are options. To some PvE is way to repetitive and less dynamic. Others have the opposite view and you are part of the problem why the PvP community feels disenfranchised. Flat out just gave "Go play another game"

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Take into consideration what they have recently done. Sorry I rather they spend their time more on other means like housing, story line ect, than wast time on something that the game does not focus on. For us that have maxed out everything job / story / relic and just wait for other content, PvP content is an alternative. Just like any other FF game or many Online games they are repetitive. I like PvE content such as hunts take up most of my time and I fool around with Jobs I don't really use, got relics for a time killer, and play FFXI or a different game to kill time. I'm not going to rage quit over PvP content, I would just play something else, take a break, not play as often, and have a life. By saying Go play another game is pretty much saying if your frustrated take a break. Comeback when you feel it meets your standards or look for a game that has more of your standards rather than just say I quit because SE won't listen. They listen, they just don't see it in the best interest at the time as a whole being this is not meant to focus on PvP. Just complaining because they feel content is important and don't look at the bigger picture is what is toxic. Will this change in the future of gaming sure, how long? Till someone comes up with a better way , stops complaining, does something productive, and changes the gaming style.

On that note I rather play Dissidia NT if I want PvP.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

This is the reason why we play this game and because there are more aspects to this game then mindlessly doing some activity. People have the right to complain as they are paying consumers of the product and yes they get to pay with their wallet. I am not going to stop them and it is your view that there are options. To some PvE is way to repetitive and less dynamic.

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Personally, I think PVP gets a lot more attention than many players credit. Essentially every odd patch there's a new map with new types of objectives for largescale pvp, and even the smaller scale feast still gets new maps now and then. Stormblood overhauled the whole thing so it isn't a mess tied to PVE balance, even if this did have some drawbacks like perhaps a little too much simplification.

I don't live and breathe pvp but as someone who participates off and on along with other things in FFXIV, there's a pretty decent and definitely steady stream of content.

It's not going to compare to games that are entirely dedicated to and built around pvp, of course...

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Originally Posted by ManuelBravo

Sorry I rather they spend their time more on other means like housing, story line ect, than wast time on something that the game does not focus on. .

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Wait... the game focuses on housing just as much as PvP as it is optional side content. You're contradicting yourself. What you truly mean to say is you would rather SE focus on content that you find relevant.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Comes to chime in completely off topic just be thankful remarks.

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I am not complaining about not getting updates. Yes I would like to see more but it isn't an unreasonable request. There are multiple complaints and you just replied with a counterargument that is completely off topic.

The neutering of the skillset which in my opinion is a bigger mess and they already figured out a way to balance the PvE portion in 2.0 which is why some abilities only had effects in PvP and gear was ilvl synced to entry level gear. Now they have a bigger mess that they are ignoring which is the whole point of this thread. The OP discussed the neutering of the skillset which wasn't asked for by the PvP community. People said it was tough to learn and that is SE's fault. It took players to state how much an Interceptor Drone is worth and ticks per base occupied. SE hasn't published any information on any of their modes on the point system. How much is a kill worth, how much is a fever worth? So the learning curve wasn't necessarily the skillset but how to even play the maps. I know when I first PvP'ed I just showed up and zerged with the masses. Which this SE still hasn't fixed as people say PvP is still too confusing with the simplified skillset.

Botting in frontlines which SE has done nothing to address. And continues to ignore the posts about players and the botting topic. It is rampant and as a pvp'er if you are on the opposing team it is quit funny. If you are on the team with bots you feel your efforts are wasted.

Win-trading in the feast which has been a topic for how many months/years now.... Oh wait since the release of Feast win-trading has been present. SE still doesn't do anything about this. If we want to discuss Win-trading we can also look at SE's stance on Triple Triad and the win-trading that occurs there. From the outside it looks like SE doesn't care if it's playerbase cheats since they haven't addressed win-trading in any elements of their own game.

Quick chat - SE continues to promote quick chat even at the request of having normal chat brought back by the playerbase. No one is really content with it and it hasn't really removed the toxicity. Now it's just Good Game, Good Game, Good Game.

Which leads us to:
SE's Lack of Communication with the NA PVP COMMUNITY - We get generic responses and there are entire threads where the community has tried to be positive and provide feedback with changes they would like.

Lol. And on the housing subforum, you see people saying "go play sims".

Adding 2 or 3 more abilities to every job in its current state would be an amazing compromise.

Botting will forever be a problem, my guess is because SE doesn't know how to deal with it since they only focus on JP's community and I'm almost positive they don't Not? Hope someone corrects me on that

Win-trading hasn't been an issue in feast recently, by recently I mean last season, there were only throwers

As for quick chat, it's actually objectively better than the normal chat for sure because quick phrases at a press of one button is much more efficient, granted strategies can't be communicated and you can't correct people as the match is going on so they adjust immediately but all in all that's what the PvP discords are for, the community is small to begin with so that's not really an issue. Quick chat also did help the toxicity issue for sure, with this community being particularly more sensitive so derogatory connotative use of the phrases is at least healthier.

There is no excuse for things like win trading and botting not being on the radar of the developers. Very few MMO's have been free of such things - and mysteriously very few MMO's deal with the plague efficiently and swiftly. There's the occasional ban wave, sure, though as a couple of people have pointed out in this very thread you can go months doing PvP and seeing the same individuals botting during that period. To say that it is disheartening would be quite the understatement. That the issue has been 'acknowledged' in the form of being downplayed doesn't help, either. Yoshi-P is on record stating that it isn't as widespread as it made out to be and yet day in, day out that is proven wrong simply by queuing up for the PvP roulette.

I enjoy the game as a whole, though I'd be lying if I said I wasn't getting close to just giving up on PvP altogether.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

So the learning curve wasn't necessarily the skillset but how to even play the maps.

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Minor note: It's both, but the skillset issue still hasn't been resolved.

The difficulty from learning the skillset came from the fact that you had and still have to completely re-learn how to play under the Burst paradigm. It's an entirely different mindset and optimization from the DPS and total damage focused PvE. Whether to hold onto cooldowns or misalign cooldowns for more burst, GCD clipping and the importance of APM, positionals, DoTs, the value of uptime and CC... the considerations are drastically different. You can be a 95th percentile player in PvE and still fail gloriously if you don't ditch everything you've known so far and learn from scratch.

That's still a thing, though, more so than ever. They just gave you less abilities that you can use wrong.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Yoshi-P is on record stating that it isn't as widespread as it made out to be and yet day in, day out that is proven wrong simply by queuing up for the PvP roulette.

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Botting in pvp isn't really a problem in the JP data centers. He probably believes what he says because he's never looked at what we deal with on Aether.

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Originally Posted by Crit

quick phrases at a press of one button is much more efficient

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Macros can solve this just as easily. People still have their bongo drum get to the pads from LotA after 4 years.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Minor note: It's both, but the skillset issue still hasn't been resolved.

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I agree 100%. Now abilities function completely differently. Still have to read the tooltips and SE's lack of training/information leads to a learning curve.