My Opinion on XIV's Gear Progression

Dude, you are wasting your breath
I think the real reason is, Yoshi's team is inexperienced in MMO developing,
and the project cost them a lot, so they go the simple & safe route.
Not everyone can be awesome.

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Originally Posted by ShanXiv

I think the real reason is, Yoshi's team is inexperienced in MMO developing,

they go the simple & safe route.

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They are hardly inexperienced. A lot of the team that works on XIV worked on 1.0 which in turn also came from XI. They also have the DQ MMO under their belt as a company. Lack of experience is hardly an issue and people need to stop treating them like they're newcomers to a harsh world. They make conscious decisions for content and development.

They do play it safe however but I bet a lot of that comes from being so badly burned from the arrogance that led to 1.0's crash. Unfortunately in the rush to build a new game fast, they've painted themselves into too many corners from a coding standpoint and now are bound to an extremely limited system. Much like 1.0 but in a different form.

Sadly this is just how XIV is going to be, I've come to accept that. The 4.x patch notes read identical to the 2.x patch notes. Tomestones, dungeons, primals ad nauseam. Except their are less dungeons now. So all I can say is unsub, I am. It's just never going to change.

Though I generally play every 4-6 months, like my sub just ended and I was able to enjoy a months worth of content: story / new raids/ primal / dngs etc. (which really wasn’t even a months worth I did it all within a weekish) I felt the gear fatigue still from my awful awful extreme grinds from my previous play time.

I didn’t even try to do extremes since they’re at times mentally exhausting. Plus the gear was just the exact same with a few additions to the same old stats...

Which comes to my point:
Make gear that’s worth to seek after?
Make the Extreme Drops have it’s own Loot Pool that could drop Augmented gear with different stats?

Perhaps have something like: Hey this piece of gear allows AST to boost effects of cards by 5% more?
Perhaps add gear that increases red mage proc rate by 10%?
Hey this gear boosts Verholy / Verflare by 4%.
Hey this gear adds an increase to sentinel by 10s?

Idk have cool unique gear! It’s not hard? Is it?

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Originally Posted by PatronasCharm

Though I generally play every 4-6 months, like my sub just ended and I was able to enjoy a months worth of content: story / new raids/ primal / dngs etc. (which really wasn’t even a months worth I did it all within a weekish) I felt the gear fatigue still from my awful awful extreme grinds from my previous play time.

I didn’t even try to do extremes since they’re at times mentally exhausting. Plus the gear was just the exact same with a few additions to the same old stats...

Which comes to my point:
Make gear that’s worth to seek after?
Make the Extreme Drops have it’s own Loot Pool that could drop Augmented gear with different stats?

Perhaps have something like: Hey this piece of gear allows AST to boost effects of cards by 5% more?
Perhaps add gear that increases red mage proc rate by 10%?
Hey this gear boosts Verholy / Verflare by 4%.
Hey this gear adds an increase to sentinel by 10s?

Idk have cool unique gear! It’s not hard? Is it?

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First off, I would love to see some kind of depth or whatever added to their gear scheme.

Sadly, Yoshi himself said this will not happen. If those items are added, then players will demand that other players get them before they can join into endgame and he doesn’t want that.

He wants people to be able to walk away and take a break then easily rejoin the rest of us that stayed with minimal effort.

One creates an easy to get back into game to play at however pace, the other requires newer players to grind through hours of outdated content in order to continue onwards with what's current.

I prefer XIV's method.

A few dungeon runs, a few trial runs aren't a grind and I like feeling the progression itself rather than sitting around in the same janky crap for a year or two.

I don't bother much anymore gearing it pointless and uninteresting, I do the story stuff and then I go play other games like Yoshi suggested. I don't consider this a mmo really its just a regular mo feature you find with any single player story campaign game.

It better just wait for the next expansion at this point, and play something else like Yoshi suggested. The 4x patch series doesn't last long anyways and the catch up phase for the expansion will be a breeze save your Gil and purchase normal gear at the next starter city vendor. /Shrugs

Can you believe that this game has never added any new stats in 4 years?! Direct Hit and Tenacity don't really count, they just reworked useless stats. And even if I'd let them have that, they have changed 2 stats in 4 years LOL. It's sooo boring.

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Originally Posted by Riko_Futatabi

Can you believe that this game has never added any new stats in 4 years?! Direct Hit and Tenacity don't really count, they just reworked useless stats. And even if I'd let them have that, they have changed 2 stats in 4 years LOL. It's sooo boring.

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Adding stats for the sake of novelty isn't good. Combat encounters and player stats are closely balanced against each other; adding in a new set of numbers to that complex equation will throw the delicate balance off. It's not something to be done lightly.

I'm not sure I'd like to see random bonuses added either, since it would always come down to "get the most damage", regardless of role in the current scheme of things. I'd rather they make gear more interesting to get (more and varied ways to acquire), or have a persistent and engaging mode that will always drop relevant gear if you put the time into it (relic; what I'm hoping Eureka will be).

gear treadmills are pretty standard in MMOs, so i'm not sure why people complain so much about it really. That said, I think our devs really dropped the ball when it comes to materia; it should be more impactfull, and much harder to obtain.

To those that say the devs don't care if people are consistently playing.... we wouldn't have weekly tomestone caps if they didn't.

As someone who mained BLM for all my XI career, I absolutely loved the min/max design of the gear system and horizontal progression.

There was always a reason to log in, find some content to do, and work towards that next piece of gear.
Which in turn helps you do the next tier of content. Which in turn helps you to gear up for NMs or HNMs and even higher tiers of content.

Just on BLM, I had gear sets for Nuking, Enfeebling, Dark, Haste, Spellcast Speed, Recast Speed, Physical DMG Reduction, Magic DMG Reduction, Movement Speed, Elemental Resist Nuking, Buffs, Debuffs... Maybe a few more I'm forgetting !

To get the most out of macroing all this gear, boy there were over a dozen content you could do..
Dynamis, Limbus, Salvage, Assault, NM, HNM, Story Quests, Maze Mongers, Crafts, Nyzul Isle, Sky, Sea, Einherjar, Zeni, Abyssea, Skirmish, Delve, Voidwalker NM, Trial of the Magians...
The content to truly min/max your character was huge. Always something to go do.

The only high end content for XIV is Savage content, which to me personally, is pointless to gear up from, because there is no content to use it for.. besides the next tier of savage.
You don't need it to do normal raids, or the next story patch, or the next patch of dungeons and raids.
As long as you gear up from tomes and upgrade mats, your character is more then adequate for the next patch.

Now that I am older however, part of me loves the fact I can enjoy 95 (99?) % of the game without the massive grinding, gearing up, and content XI required and expected.
But part of me really misses that experience the game created, the way a LS would band together for its members, and the sheer joy of myself or my friends finally getting that awesome or elusive piece of gear.

I completely agree that FFXIV’s ‘gear progression’ (if you can call it progression, it’s more of a cycle) is boring and uninspired. You could even be very harsh and call it sheer laziness. But the developers will not ever change the way it works, not in 4.5 nor 8.5. Main reason being that they don’t want people for more than a short period of time (which seems counterintuitive considering this is a sub based game but idk much about gaming business).

Personally, I don’t see why ‘horizontal’ progression has to mean endless year-round grinding. Surely it can be adjusted and altered to fit the FFXIV philosophy? Just because a similar system was in XI doesn’t mean they can’t adapt it

FFXIV is not FFXI but I do agree with points that the gear treadmill is just incredibly boring. They should add more stuff to do instead of primals > savage > repeat.

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Originally Posted by Connor

Personally, I don’t see why ‘horizontal’ progression has to mean endless year-round grinding.

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Well, it depends on what you want to achieve with that progression model.

Fact is that the faster you acquire gear, the sooner you reach the end of a given progression path. The more paths you have, the longer it takes to reach the end of progression.
Since the relevance of content is tied to the relevance of the rewards, that means that the sooner you get your stuff, the sooner content becomes obsolete. Example:

Extreme start: Dump all gear in the game on the character right from the start. All further gear rewards from content instantly become obsolete and thus, the content does as well.
Extreme end: It takes a full year of grinding to get one item. Each grinding spot will be relevant for a full year for each player, because that's how long it takes to get the item. If people even endure long enough.

In between, the transitions are fluid. But the gist is that the longer gear on a progression path is meant to last, the longer it must take to acquire it. So if longevity is the goal you want to reach with horizontal progression, more grinding is inevitable.

Different progression paths are already in the game - Jobs. The gear for tanks, healers, NIN, DRG, SAM/MNK, BRD/MCH and casters is separate and players who reached the end of one path can go and work on the other paths. The issue with that is that it is not very well supported due to weekly caps and the pace at which new items come out, which aims more towards players that play a single job or two at most.

You could put up more progression paths for single jobs as well - Nature Resistance Gear, Coeurl Form Gear, Anti-Dragon Gear... whatever situational gear you can think of. The issue when those become relevant however is that the effort to gear multiple jobs increases exponentially. You'd need to create bonuses to make playing multiple jobs feasible and drastically increase inventory/armory space as well.

It's do-able, but it's not easy. And it definitely means more grinding than now if you want the change to increase gear longevity, either because you're simply grinding more gear, or because you're grinding longer for a given piece of gear. That much is regardless of the progression system however, it's just the nature of progression as such.


There is another way out of course and that's to find the magic formula that makes the content itself so enjoyable that you don't need to think much about rewards. But that phenomenon is pretty much exclusive to PvP games.

I don't mind the gear in this game (and I came from a game where gear was the most customized thing you could do in the game)... this game isn't meant to have that kind of gearing... we already have people excluded from groups because of ilvl, class, and parses... you add required gear to that and you will have a mass exodus of casuals and maybe even midcore players... maybe their next mmo will blend the 2 better...

Am I the only one that thinks a level 30 item on XI was still used in max level end game is a tad silly?

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

Am I the only one that thinks a level 30 item on XI was still used in max level end game is a tad silly?

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What item are you referring to that would be used in "max level end game"? There were items you could use to level for a long time for sure, but not "max level end game" as you put it lol. And yes, it was a tad silly, but in the end FFXI had -in my opinion- the most varied and customizable gearing of your character in any MMO, ever. You have at least 12 slots of gear that you can switch at any time. The game offered so many different stats that you could make sets for many, many things. Depending on the situation. Physical Damage reduction, Magical Damage Reduction, Elemental Resistances and of course the regular "TP Sets" and varying "WS sets". MND and INT sets for the differing debuffs you could use. Ah mah gad, I could go on way more but I won't. I love that gear system so much.

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Originally Posted by Nora_of_Mira

Go play FFXI.

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This^

Seriously, if I personally felt like XI did so many things better than XIV, I would be playing XI. These comparisons are getting quite old, especially when considering that XIV is a more modern mmo. FFXI did so many things wrong, especially when it came to QoL. If those early 2000 era elements were present in FFXIV, no one would play the game.

I'm not exactly sure what the issue some players have with gear progression in the game, or at least it hasn't been explained in a way I comprehend. XIs stat system was convoluted. A stat like +15 accuracy was huge because very few items gave an ACC bonus, so it was highly sought after and sometimes even mandatory to get into endgame content. That's how it was when I left. I haven't the slightest clue why anyone would favor such a system in this game.

Gear does get outdated very quickly in XIV. So what? It's also easy to obtain. Why do you think current tomes have a max cap and a weekly cap? Relic weapons are the only thing I can think of requiring a true grind that is anything comparable to the grinds FFXI provided when it comes to gear. They also serve a similar purpose. You grind for it so you can continue to use it. If/when it gets outdated, you glamour over the superior weapon with it. Under the right perspective, what you're really doing is taking the superior stats, and giving it to the weapon you grinded for.

We're getting relic armor next, and this is very exciting. I have no doubt that these items will be gorgeous and worth the time put in. Not for the stats though. For the appearance. At the end of the say, stats are just numbers and glamour is the true endgame.

Its hard to be nihilistic in a game you're currently paying for, so I stay away from those schools of thought. I like running duties, I like doing quests. Give me new gear that I can easily obtain to do raids, and I'm content. Ultimately its all a grind with the current modal of mmo's. Do stuff, to get stuff, that helps you beat stuff, wherein you get your final stuff...now you don't have to participate in this, but SE makes it so easy, even WoW took the idea.

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Originally Posted by Riko_Futatabi

What item are you referring to that would be used in "max level end game"? There were items you could use to level for a long time for sure, but not "max level end game" as you put it lol. And yes, it was a tad silly, but in the end FFXI had -in my opinion- the most varied and customizable gearing of your character in any MMO, ever. You have at least 12 slots of gear that you can switch at any time. The game offered so many different stats that you could make sets for many, many things. Depending on the situation. Physical Damage reduction, Magical Damage Reduction, Elemental Resistances and of course the regular "TP Sets" and varying "WS sets". MND and INT sets for the differing debuffs you could use. Ah mah gad, I could go on way more but I won't. I love that gear system so much.

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To me it sounds more bothersome than an actual enjoyment...

Glamour is the true end game, is the horizontal progression in XIV

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Originally Posted by AxlStream

To me it sounds more bothersome than an actual enjoyment...

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Yeah, as I'm sure it does to many now. It was a different time, everything is very rigid in most cases today. I mean why experiment with something new when people will just eat up the same thing day after day, right? While XIV is fun, it's seriously lacking in the variety of gear choices. It's so predictable, you rarely need to think and that to me leads to many players being bored of it. Guess what ilvl we're going to be by the time 5.0 and the new expansion comes out? I'm sure many can guess lol. Not that it matters.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

This^

Seriously, if I personally felt like XI did so many things better than XIV, I would be playing XI. These comparisons are getting quite old, especially when considering that XIV is a more modern mmo. FFXI did so many things wrong, especially when it came to QoL. If those early 2000 era elements were present in FFXIV, no one would play the game.

I'm not exactly sure what the issue some players have with gear progression in the game, or at least it hasn't been explained in a way I comprehend. XIs stat system was convoluted. A stat like +15 accuracy was huge because very few items gave an ACC bonus, so it was highly sought after and sometimes even mandatory to get into endgame content. That's how it was when I left. I haven't the slightest clue why anyone would favor such a system in this game.

Gear does get outdated very quickly in XIV. So what? It's also easy to obtain. Why do you think current tomes have a max cap and a weekly cap? Relic weapons are the only thing I can think of requiring a true grind that is anything comparable to the grinds FFXI provided when it comes to gear. They also serve a similar purpose. You grind for it so you can continue to use it. If/when it gets outdated, you glamour over the superior weapon with it. Under the right perspective, what you're really doing is taking the superior stats, and giving it to the weapon you grinded for.

We're getting relic armor next, and this is very exciting. I have no doubt that these items will be gorgeous and worth the time put in. Not for the stats though. For the appearance. At the end of the say, stats are just numbers and glamour is the true endgame.

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Well...even Ultima online ,had horizontal progression ,or "different gearing form"?
platemail=high defense, low attack speed, low MP
chainmail mid defense, mid attack speed, mid MP
leathermail=low defense, high attack speed, high MP
naked=red name murderer
clothes over the armor=glamouring

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Originally Posted by Okamimaru

I don't mind the gear in this game (and I came from a game where gear was the most customized thing you could do in the game)... this game isn't meant to have that kind of gearing... we already have people excluded from groups because of ilvl, class, and parses... you add required gear to that and you will have a mass exodus of casuals and maybe even midcore players... maybe their next mmo will blend the 2 better...

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This is something I feel people aren't taking into consideration. Imagine if you required certain elemental gear otherwise you'll take considerably higher damage in O8S. That instantly becomes a PF requirement, which only serves to narrow the pool.

I think we should also tackle the elephant in the room which is our limited inventory space.
Imagine having to manage 4-5 gear slots/jobs (crafting and gathering included) with the little space we have

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Originally Posted by Usho

Yes, I know who you are, and I once again see the reason why I'm glad I blacklisted you in game.

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Seriously? Hahaha you must be quite the snowflake and get triggered pretty easily then. Well I have no idea who you are, sorry.

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*sigh* Okay...so first off, XI's gear progression had more "feeling". Not just in achievement of getting it, but also that it could last you for YEARS even after new gear comes out.

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Again. That was a negative, not a positive. It only worked in XI because you were able to change gear mid combat. Situational gear that was useful for 1-2 weaponskills then swapped out is what made the game have such a wide scope of gearing options, and why some slots would "last you years".

In XIV, a piece that would "last you years" is not gear progression - it's nearly the opposite - the absence of progression.
Your character would literally be stuck at the same point with no gear to work toward unless you focus on another job, because unlike XI, you can't just swap gear mid combat. You're literally stuck in the same set on your main job "for years" with no reason to play.. You might as well unsub until the new gear comes out.. (What many people do currently).

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XIV's gear progression system is: "Grind this, Get it, use it for 3-4 months, throw it out, grind for new gear, repeat." Gear gets outdated and irrelevant so quick that it makes the grind pointless and there's no sense of achievement in getting any gear in this game, and none has any lasting effect outside of some glamour pieces. XI's system is bad? Haha...no

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Not sure if you have played many other MMOs outside of your XI bubble but that's just how regular updates in a game work. But see the previous point as it's directly related.
Furthermore, XIV sees a tonne more content updates than XI did. With that comes the need to motivate people to do said content. How is the best way to do that? Put a carrot on a stick - give people upgrades to their gear.
If you are holding onto gear for more than 4 months in an MMO, therein inherently lies a problem. Again, XI was a special snowflake for reasons I mentioned before - however in XIV that just would. not. work.

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Originally Posted by Usho

And yes, I think you are White Knighting and I think you see XIV though "rose tinted glasses". XI had it's flaws as well but not as much as some of XIV's very obvious flaws. If you like the treadmill yoshi made, good for you, but anyone who isn't inflicted with the blind status aliment can see how s*** the gear progression system in 14 is. I love this game btw, to all the trolls who think I don't. But just because I love a game, doesn't mean I can't point out it's flaws.

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I actually don't.. Pretty much everything in my previous post is why XI's system is bad, or would not work outside of the XI bubble. There is very little in my post that actually says "the XIV system is amazing and if you say otherwise you suck." The absence of me saying there could be improvments doesn't mean that I think there can't be. All I am saying is that those improvements are not based off the XI system.

In fact, I am actually quite bored of the current formula and am praying for Eureka to fix that (doubt it).. But again, that doesn't mean that XIV should or can adopt XI's gear "progression" system.

You really do have those glasses on. I feel like I could collect a bucket of drool under your mouth when you're reminiscing about XI. Which is totally fine. You do you. However you do need to realise how many of XI's systems just won't work in any other MMO.

Ps. If you're trying to be insulting, you're pretty bad at it. Your post sounds like it's written by an angry teenage boy. Oh and if you would like to make a post as long as this, just edit your first one. No need to post twice in a row.

The gear in this game is literally just more stats, that's it, no decisions, no depth, no builds, nothing. Half the time the gear doesn't even matter because you're synced. The only time gear actually matters is in end game content.