To anyone from SE or the Developer Team I need your help in a theft situation

/comfort Hobbes

I feel for you man. But as many have pointed out in this thread I don't think he violated the ToS. That being said he should have initiated a trade the second he saw he was paid about 14 mil for a repair.

SE should make a special emote called /nickzealot. It can use the snowball motion and it pelts Nick Zealot with a rotten tomato, instantly, no matter where he is in the game world. Adding a debuff called "The Foul Stench of Nick Zealot" would be a nice touch too devs. Any one in his linkshells or that has recently partied with him gets it. Too harsh?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Masamune1004

Family Guy is a fictional show, you need to provide a case in real life for it to be valid.

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Are you serious? You really want to argue over actual events when the morality issue is still the same?

Here is a real life issue that ties in closely to the Family Guy episode where Peter gets a check value in error.
Here; http://kotaku.com/5876174/bodycount-...sters-responds

A developer at Codemasters was paid an extra month paycheck at error of the company. The company ask for the money back for their accounting error.

Although this particular story is more messed up than anything we have here. The developer wants to return the money, but honestly can not do so financially in any timely manner.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Matsume

Why do you reply if you are uncapable of reading the entirety of his post. He did not get 11 mil back. He did not get 1 gil back for that matter. You are a heartless and uncompassionate creature. Go crawl back under whichever rock you came from.

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Who said he got his 11mil back btw?
I said be thankful he is giving 11mil back (not gave 11mil back), and e guy rejected it cause he think it's too less, he wan full return. I think u did read e entire post just that your capability of comprehending is bad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lackofwords

You really want to argue over actual events when the morality issue is still the same?

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It's not about the morality, the OP wanted SE to get his money back, which they are not responsible for. We all know that what Nick Zealot was wrong, but that isn't the topic. I guess I assumed he was being on-topic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cthulhu

SE should make a special emote called /nickzealot. It can use the snowball motion and it pelts Nick Zealot with a rotten tomato, instantly, no matter where he is in the game world. Adding a debuff called "The Foul Stench of Nick Zealot" would be a nice touch too devs. Any one in his linkshells or that has recently partied with him gets it. Too harsh?

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lol nice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Masamune1004

So basically, follow the rules only when they're convenient to you? Nice. And how do you know that the OP is telling the truth anyway? He could've made the whole story up and photoshopped all of the pics just to get some free money.

To clarify: I do not think what Nick did was right, but it also wasn't illegal. Wrong =/= Illegal.

Let's imagine this in real life: I get real drunk one night and offer someone $100 for something obviously not worth $100. This person agrees and we trade. The next morning I realize what i did and go back to the guy and ask for a tradeback. He says no. Is he a total dick? Yes. Can I call the police and get him arrested? No.

Another example, closer to the old lady one: The old senial lady goes to the grocery store and gets a loaf of bread priced at $100 and other things priced at $50. She goes to the cashier and he says the total is $150 dollars. The old lady pays. The store did not do anything illegal because the bread was advertised at $100 and she gave her consent to buying it. Very wrong, but not illegal.

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First of all, there are no rules. A judgement is given on every affair, one judgement does not fit all cases. this is why we have courts. So in no way am i wrong for judging differently on this case than the previous. And yes you are right, it could be shopped, but it doesn't look like it to me.

Secondly, who ever said anything about this being illegal?

Thirdly, most stores give refunds. Especially if its your neighborhood grocery store and you know the manager/owner.

Lastly, since it seems this conversation has yet again elevated to a degree of law I might add that in a court ruling judged by a jury the members of the jury would decide whether this scenario is legal or not. If we are the members of the jury and judge it wrong then technically speaking he would be legally oblidged to give it back.

And yeah, all of you who say it's not against the ToS you are right. Im only defending the morality of the matter.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Masamune1004

It's not about the morality, the OP wanted SE to get his money back, which they are not responsible for. We all know that what Nick Zealot was wrong, but that isn't the topic. I guess I assumed he was being on-topic.

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Yeah, we probably should move on to the bigger issue rather than morality and that guy being a jerk.

SE/GMs are ideally seen as the enforcers of the game. Is it wrong of the OP wanting to seek a higher order to handle the dispute?
It's ideally what Codemasters is doing, using the law to threaten that developer to bankruptcy if they didn't get their money back.

However, we already know in the back of our minds that SE/GMs won't be able to do anything about this. Seeing how they tend to not take any responsibility for anything that is not clearly defined in the service.

The bigger question is should SE have the power or actually take action to do something about this? However, no one really touched upon this. Instead a lot of people are just telling the OP to suck it up.

I'm gonna be honest here guys. When it comes to being a decent human being with some respect and basic moral values, you give that man his money back.

I respect any rules that must be followed whether it's a game or in real life, but when it comes to something disgusting like a guy knowingly holding your money against your own will is flat out disgusting and low. If you can support this player's side simply because he, out of a mere technicality, didn't break any rules but is deliberately ignoring him, attempting to publicly humiliate him, and knows he took all his hard earned money over a simple "admitted" mistake and apology, then there's seriously something wrong with you.

The OP never, not once, lost his temper over this matter. He remained honest, calm and reasonable over the entire conversation. The GM call was the only instance you could possibly use against him in the other side's defense, but it was only to get a guiding hand to help sort out the situation, like he admitted, not to punish him or have him banned. Fair enough.

I had something similar happen to me when I used to transfer items between my mules in vacant market stalls.

I had just logged off and right back on immediately next to my other character's retainer and found things missing during an inventory transfer (since the game lacks any mail sending function what so ever). And I used to do this regularly during intervals of my inventory filling up. This was done by many, many players, including my friends and LS members before the payment came into effect.

I saw someone right there walking in the opposite direction as soon as I signed back on, in which I could pretty much tell what had happened. It was pretty obvious when putting two and two together here, you could tell what went on. I stopped him with a /say and kindly got him to trade me my gear back right then and there so I could finish transferring it over to my other character. With a crappy system to work around, it's almost impossible to avoid a situation like this, but that was my excuse.

Suffice to say in the end, I ended up letting him keep the pair of leggings I didn't need, that he wanted, in which he had purchased for 1 gil. It didn't bother me, so I let him have it. We both came to a solution within 60 seconds or less with zero problems and went happily on our way.

The moral point of the story is, like the OP's is... Don't be an a$$hole and treat people like they're idiots. People make mistakes, hell SE made the biggest mistake with this game, and yet we still play it and help them fix it and try to enjoy it each day. We bust their balls about it just about every step of the way, but none the less, we still play there game and everyone, for the most part, is content with the direction it's heading.

People need to stop acting like douche bags and at the very, very least just try and show the man some sympathy and make him feel a little bit better. Or at least show that you can care. Even if he technically did nothing wrong when taking the money, it's the fact he knew he took that money, knew he got messages explaining the situation, received multiple apologies and still would not be a decent enough human being to make the guy feel better and give him his money back. Whether it's a game or real life, you're an a$$hole if you can't do any of those. There is no excuse for something like that. You're an a$$~hole.

But to be somewhat fair to everyone here and the rules in general, you really should learn from this experience and never let it happen again. Be careful with your items and your money and no problems will plague you down the road.

Sadly, SE, according to their own rules and regulations, cannot really do anything about it.
It's pretty much up to the players and their moral decisions. It's sad but true.

Sorry, but I have very low tolerance for people who mistreat others like that and especially refuse to be reasonable.

If he was a decent person u'd have your Gil back. Since it appears he is not, you just paid 14 mil for a very painful lesson. I feel bad for you, but if he see's his name on this forum your definitely not getting it back.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hobbes

Hello to the Developers who may be so kind in helping me with this problem. I am Hobbes Graywyrd from the Fabul server. I am sorry for this is going to be a rather long post but I was placed in a dire situation where I had no options left and couldn't find a reasonable solution. So I found this might be appropriate to find a feasible solution.

...

Again Nick, if you are reading this, I am asking you to please do the right thing and return my money back please.

- Hobbes Graywryrd
Fabul Server

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Well Hobbes, I guess men are corrupt by nature and the system is too feeble to keep them straight?

Kinda ironic.

Ok, Hobbes. it is your mistake to put in the wrong amount for repair, right?
The thing is Nick is not that good in English, and he was actually thinking to return the whole amount of gil.
And then you told him you would contact GM if he didn't give the gil back. so Nick got tempered by the way you were talking.
Then all the friends and LS members were trying to convince him, after that Nick agreed.
Again, Hobbes, you said it was more than 14m, but Nick only received 13m+ from the repair as the log recorded.
Although it might be just a human error, but Nick got angry again by misunderstanding.
Of course we tried to convince him again.
So he agreed on giving 11m back to you, but you had to shout and apologize, and he /tell you that he would waited you for 5 mins.
Then you did not agree on the amount and 5 mins passed, he just logged off and went to rest.

Here's the story I know. Still think it's a moral issue? Just try the best to apologize to Nick if you still want your money back, or just be a man and learn the lesson..Good Luck.

live and learn

That guy doesn't sound like a very nice person to be honest. He IS a thief for seeing an opportunity like that and going for it - if I saw someone put that much money up for a REPAIR, I would /tell them that way too much money has been put up.

IF you said "if you would be so kind" instead of "calling GM",you have got ALL your money back.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by VampyEnki

IF you said "if you would be so kind" instead of "calling GM",you have got ALL your money back.

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He shouldn't have done the repair in the first place...

This is very interesting point. Is there any moral in mmo and even rpg. In some games players kill each other and in some they steal. My opinion is that criminals should not play FF, this is a game for high moral people who want help each other and have fun. LS leaders should return the law to these jungles. If the guy dsnt return the money, offer him always the chocobo tail when you see him. War is declared. Sorry my English.

There's a new emote named "/grovel" in 1.20. Just use it, man.

I dont care about the situation, the guy who is not returning the money is an asshole and so is everyone else that supports this kind of a behaviour.
The guy made a mistake, you want him to act like a circus monkey in order to give him his money back?

Trading items for materia melds is also legit, do you think that it would be cool if I kept the item in the end?
It's an honest transaction after all.

This is all the money this guy had seriously, I am really happy that I am not in the same server with trash players like the guy who took the money.
If it was me I wouldn't even make the repairs, I would inform him first for how much he put the item up.

Complete lack of sence of justice in some of todays kids... you make me sick.

How did he make that money I wonder... selling parts/materials back in the start for outrageous prices only to become obsolete later? I say, retribution!

Buts really, sucks to see that, if you made it once, can make it again I'm sure.

I have almost 14 million and its not a lot.
Its hard earned money by farming and selling materials - crafted items, Levequest rewards and trying not to spend them.

Took me 1 year and some months to get that money so don't say crap like "retribution" , if you think that money is made out so easily then please go ahead and give this guy 13 of your million, youre not gonna miss it, I am sure you will make it again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Meleena

I dont care about the situation, the guy who is not returning the money is an asshole and so is everyone else that supports this kind of a behaviour.
The guy made a mistake, you want him to act like a circus monkey in order to give him his money back?

Trading items for materia melds is also legit, do you think that it would be cool if I kept the item in the end?
It's an honest transaction after all.

This is all the money this guy had seriously, I am really happy that I am not in the same server with trash players like the guy who took the money.
If it was me I wouldn't even make the repairs, I would inform him first for how much he put the item up.

Complete lack of sence of justice in some of todays kids... you make me sick.

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First of all, I would like to say I took no side on either of them.
Yes, that guy did not return the money (only offer 11mil out of it).
*Yes, if it's me, I wouldn't repair in the first place but to judge someone that didn't return because it's a legal repair?
No I wouldn't.
As for the comment made on legit transaction for material melding, Yes, the transaction is legit, but the agreement is not.
For that you can say the guy who ran off with the materia is wrong.

"Live and learn" lol...

I'd never repair something that was up for 14 mil. reward lol. i'd think obviously a mistake and
notify the person of that mistake..
And if i did for some reason and the person asked me kindly for his gil. back i'd just give em back without giving him a hard time about it.. common ethics and morals here.

Welcome to Fabul!!!


Where people will come to your house slay all your kittens, slash your velvet sofa, spray paint your expenssive wallpapers and when u react in your rage they'll be like
"You are just overreacting man don't be such a drama queen"
and leave it at that lmao!

Quote:

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As for the comment made on legit transaction for material melding, Yes, the transaction is legit, but the agreement is not.
For that you can say the guy who ran off with the materia is wrong.

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When it comes to materia, the agreement is that I will meld Materia to your item, there is nothing saying that I have to give the item back, thats common knowledge.
It should also be common knowledge that this guy made a mistake when he put up a repair item for that amount of money.
The guy who took the money is first class thief and there is nothing that can justify his action.

On another note, it will also be good to keep the names of the guys that support him, so anyone can know who to NOT trust in this game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Meleena

I dont care about the situation, the guy who is not returning the money is an asshole and so is everyone else that supports this kind of a behaviour.
The guy made a mistake, you want him to act like a circus monkey in order to give him his money back?

Trading items for materia melds is also legit, do you think that it would be cool if I kept the item in the end?
It's an honest transaction after all.

This is all the money this guy had seriously, I am really happy that I am not in the same server with trash players like the guy who took the money.
If it was me I wouldn't even make the repairs, I would inform him first for how much he put the item up

Complete lack of sence of justice in some of todays kids... you make me sick.

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THIS.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by VampyEnki

IF you said "if you would be so kind" instead of "calling GM",you have got ALL your money back.

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Next time someone material melds for you, I hope they keep your Savage Might IVs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Danavia

He shouldn't have done the repair in the first place...

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This is called Honor and Integrity. I’m glad to see you have some Danavia.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AlaulaTheGreat

How did he make that money I wonder... selling parts/materials back in the start for outrageous prices only to become obsolete later? I say, retribution!

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…you are so dumb. You must have been one of those noobs who bought a piece of lvl 10 gear for 70K from the wards rather than spend the time lvling your crafts and making it yourself. So now you are taking it out on the OP, and calling it Retribution? /disgust

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Meleena

I have almost 14 million and its not a lot.
Its hard earned money by farming and selling materials - crafted items, Levequest rewards and trying not to spend them.

Took me 1 year and some months to get that money so don't say crap like "retribution" , if you think that money is made out so easily then please go ahead and give this guy 13 of your million, youre not gonna miss it, I am sure you will make it again.

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Point taken.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Meleena

When it comes to materia, the agreement is that I will meld Materia to your item, there is nothing saying that I have to give the item back, thats common knowledge.
It should also be common knowledge that this guy made a mistake when he put up a repair item for that amount of money.
The guy who took the money is first class thief and there is nothing that can justify his action.

On another note, it will also be good to keep the names of the guys that support him, so anyone can know who to NOT trust in this game.

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And this.

Nah, if it was common knowledge not to repair anyone's gear for them for if to me, the repairer, said "Hmm, the reward seems too outlandish, allow me to report this person to a GM, so that the proper channels can direct this fellow to a correct reward amount, but I shall not tell them, less the reward be true and I be made the fool!"
I'm sure if we all thought like that, it would be fine.
But instead, first I repair it, I collect my reward, and once one receives a a rather large reward, one usually celebrates, none of this "Haha, I stole that guys money just now."
But then, to call me a GM on me, then call me a thief, after doing nothing wrong, herp derp, man is the system sure wrong when I can reported and demonized for simply playing the game.

Sure I understand he was tired, but you don't start blaming the guy you hit after you fell asleep at the wheel, and from what I understand he still received SOME of the money back, unless I'm confused of course. Even in the days of FFXI, if someone miss-bid on certain items, every once in a while you'd be able to hear a wonder story about him getting his money back (Don't you guys dare stand up here and say "NO, FFXI community was perfect! They'd always give back whats not theirs!"), cause lets just say I even paid 500k for a stack of earth crystals, yet did I up on a high horse and say, "Hear ye hear ye! If you stole 500k from me give it back!" Cause then you'd just have a confused group of Jeuno folks.

Cause when I hear the word thief, I think of person A is scamming Person B. Not Person B made a mistake that benefited person A. Unless... Nick Zealot broke into the OP's account and put all his money into one repair...

But I think looking at those logs, it all could have been avoided if he didn't threaten to call a GM on him so quickly, soon as someone threatens to sue me, as a reasonable person, I'd stop talking to that person until proper authority looks things over and issues a rightful claim.

(@_@ all that looks a mess... I must be tired... ; ; )

Yeah, I did buy gear once for 70k, but I'm confused how what I buy has anything to do with this. o:
And in order to properly make level 10 gear as you said, I would have to focus in on crafting for maybe 2 weeks at launch THEN when atleast 4 of my DoH and 2 of my DoL classes were around 20-30, I could comfortably play a DoW or a DoM class all by myself. But luckily, I had RL friends to shoulder the burden. :P

If this guy did commit theft, etc, etc as you guys had mentioned. Don't worry too much, I believed SE won't tolerate that.
Don't you agree?
Let's just see?

Why do people keep saying he didn't do anything illegal and his money is lost lol?
Anyone with integrity would go out and say "Hey bro, you are offering 14M for a repair, are you stupid?" Is it worth having your name bashed like this over 14M gil for your remaining play time with SE, which may be 2-5 years or more?
I know people that switched servers because they did stupid things or even start all over.

I think Nick has a chance to make this better by simply returning OP's gil. We all have a good laugh and the matter will be forgotten within 2 days.

Or don't, and possibly half the server in Fabul will have him blisted in 2 weeks.

Your choice dude.

How can people seriously defend the guy keeping the money? >.> Humanity is at its end lol. It is a shame that more people are not helpful, caring and kind to one another. I wouldn't call him a thief...but the way he (Nick) chose to handle the situation is really, really pathetic. He is on the same level as a thief, sure..but I would just say Nick is acting very childish and selfish.

Then again it is so much "easier" to do the wrong thing and extremely hard for some to do the right thing... I'm sorry OP that you had to come across such a person. :(

It is people like the guy who kept the gil why I am so meticulous and wary of most people. Not a fun way to live but when there are people like him what other choice do we have :/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by urhryu

If this guy did commit theft, etc, etc as you guys had mentioned. Don't worry too much, I believed SE won't tolerate that.
Don't you agree?
Let's just see?

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Nah, SE saying that is a theft is like they are saying they helped the thief steal it in the first place. So it is not a theft, it is well within the game's limitation that wonderful transactions like this happen everyday!

I'm sure a GM would love to send that person to in game jail or what ever this game has at the moment, but that is like sending a game designer to jail cause I accidentally vendored my scorpion harness +1 with +5 to dex augments in it signed by the dead wife of 10 years who used to play. (Thats worth about 14 mil-ish right?)

Oh btw, take the wrong stance here, seems like you are disgusting in a certain someone's eyes~

I look forward to your continued guidance Matsume, if only they allowed it possible to know when we were quoted, I'd like to hear each and everything you had to say about me. If I were true garbage of this world, I'd have it no other way.

/bow

And this is why I only ever carry 10% of my money on me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xenowind

Ok, Hobbes. it is your mistake to put in the wrong amount for repair, right?
The thing is Nick is not that good in English, and he was actually thinking to return the whole amount of gil.
And then you told him you would contact GM if he didn't give the gil back. so Nick got tempered by the way you were talking.
Then all the friends and LS members were trying to convince him, after that Nick agreed.
Again, Hobbes, you said it was more than 14m, but Nick only received 13m+ from the repair as the log recorded.
Although it might be just a human error, but Nick got angry again by misunderstanding.
Of course we tried to convince him again.
So he agreed on giving 11m back to you, but you had to shout and apologize, and he /tell you that he would waited you for 5 mins.
Then you did not agree on the amount and 5 mins passed, he just logged off and went to rest.

Here's the story I know. Still think it's a moral issue? Just try the best to apologize to Nick if you still want your money back, or just be a man and learn the lesson..Good Luck.

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I'm blacklisting you as well.

Kinda sad when we get to the point of being b-listed for personal opinions.
Where is that strong and highly moral community now? Just a bunch of 'if you don't agree with him, your a bad person cause in my eyes, this is wrong.' ; ;

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AlaulaTheGreat

Kinda sad when we get to the point of being b-listed for personal opinions.
Where is that strong and highly moral community now? Just a bunch of 'if you don't agree with him, your a bad person cause in my eyes, this is wrong.' ; ;

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*sigh* I'll explain it to you.

Anyone who agrees with a behavior is likely to copy it. I don't want to be scammed. So I'm not dealing with anyone here who thinks this is okay.

EDIT: The poster that I quoted may have also benefited personally from this incident.... but that's just conjecture.

@ Xenowind: "Just be a man and learn your lesson?" WTF are you talking about? What lesson is there to learn? The guy made a MISTAKE and he admitted it already many times in the tells he sent. What more do you want him to do? He never once started swearing at Nick, which i can tell you is impressing, I would have lost my temper long ago.

Please indulge me as to what other lessons the OP could have learned from this lol...

@ OP: any updates on this whole thing? Did you get your gil back yet?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

*sigh* I'll explain it to you.

Anyone who agrees with a behavior is likely to copy it. I don't want to be scammed. So I'm not dealing with anyone here who thinks this is okay.

EDIT: The poster that I quoted may have also benefited personally from this incident.... but that's just conjecture.

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But where was the scam in all this? I guess from now on, based on this, I'll be afraid to do anybody's repairs unless for dark matter of equal or lesser value. Or fear that I may be scamming someone out of 5,000 gold that they meant to place for 500 gil, 5 gil, 50 gil, so on. I'm no thief, no sir!

I think that this group is a tightly woven knit. They are certainly not representative of Fabul. It's not a statement of the rest of the gamer community as well, which is actually quite nice and at least has some common sense. So it's not a big deal to just blacklist the whole lot of them who were circling the wagons around Nick Zealot. Why deal with a few rotten apples with there's so much more nicer people on server to deal with?

:3

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Abauge_Goga

Please indulge me as to what other lessons the OP could have learned from this lol...

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A hot cup of coffee and a 8 hours of sleep a day will serve the body just right! That's the lesson I learned. >.>

Ha, if I B-listed 10 people from my server, that be around 5% of the people I could talk to gone. xD

I like to keep it tight, with the good and the bad.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AlaulaTheGreat

But where was the scam in all this? I guess from now on, based on this, I'll be afraid to do anybody's repairs unless for dark matter of equal or lesser value. Or fear that I may be scamming someone out of 5,000 gold that they meant to place for 500 gil, 5 gil, 50 gil, so on. I'm no thief, no sir!

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Alaula, the scam is more from a moral point of view. Would you take 13M for a repair without second guessing the person? Or even if you did because maybe you don't notice, would you not give it back after the fact?

I would. Hiir would too, that is why she is blisting them.