[Feedback] More Glamour Plates or More Areas to Apply Glamour Plates?

I personally would like more plates than more places I can switch my outfit or how much more items I can place in the dresser.
I've already used up all 10 plates and I still have way more ideas for glamours.

More plates and more storage please.

Changing them wherever and whenever would be nice but is the certainly the lowest priority for me.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I think the difference here is that using a prism gives the system one instruction (change item A's appearance to B) but when you apply a plate, it has to instantly do that for every item on the plate so potentially ten times as much work, and that's before you count that players are likely to switch plates a lot more often than they would have previously glamoured their gear.

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A simple fix to this is to apply a hidden cooldown timer. No one needs to switch plates quickly and frequently to the point that it could harm the game.

More plates would be nice. I’d rather see the capacity to not have the plates basically be a preset of glam prisms that apply to the gear and instead have the capacity of having job-specific glams on a set without fubaring it for jobs that share said gear (tanks, hearts, etc.)

Or just make em be layers.

The problem I have with the Glamour Plate system is that I've now got all my War/Magic classes up to Lvl 70 and I now have tones of room in my armory for my most frequently used glamours. I keep the spares on my retainers and swap them out as needed. Currently the plates can only interact with the Glamour Dresser. Letting them interact with the armory would be great as I might actually want to use them.

I also find it way easier to play with glamours by actually equipping the equipment before using it as a glamor rather then seeing it in the preview window (so I can play with lighting, making poses, how dyes actually look, etc.). The Wardrobe directly inhibits this so I just don't use it.

For me, the big problem is that Glamour Prisms are way more convenient for me then the Glamour Wardrobe/Plates. Until they get that level of convince, I won't have any reason to use it.

Increasing the number of plates is far more important to me. I spend most of my time in cities, so that is less of an issue.

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Originally Posted by Rasikko

Or just make em be layers.

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This does seem the simple solution - so simple that I'm more inclined to believe that it's impossible within their system architecture, than that they could either fail to think of it, or consider it and decide that the plate system is a better option.

Purely by looking at how they've set up the plate system (and how it adds up to applying a series of glamour prisms), I'm guessing that there is no place in the programming that they can use to give this removable "layer" setup, and the only way they can change the appearance of an item is to give that permanent "apply glamour" instruction.

There is *one* counter-example I can think of though, and that's the Grand Melee solo event where you appear in a matching uniform to your team mates. Though it's possible that they achieve that in some other way - creating a duplicate of your character model that only exists within the instance, or something like that.

I vote c, get rid of this system then if it takes too much data, and give us a real glam log, as in what wow has. Basically you get a book of some sorts, like our crafting or gathering log we have. Put a little checkmark when you obtain a said gear and you get to use it as a glam. No one wanted this broken system, they wanted what other games have, not something that is 2 steps backwards.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

Ideally, they would fix their programming, so that there would be no choice.

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Reading such posts I sometimes wonder if maybe SE doesnt have that great of IT experts working with them. Maybe they need more employees from around the world with different experiences and views of these things because sometimes I get the feeling that they simply dont know how to do it better. Because if they really use a system that will always send all the information then its no wonder that they have to check if its possible to increase it..but that does mean that we will hit the limit sometime in the future...

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Reading such posts I sometimes wonder if maybe SE doesnt have that great of IT experts working with them. Maybe they need more employees from around the world with different experiences and views of these things because sometimes I get the feeling that they simply dont know how to do it better. Because if they really use a system that will always send all the information then its no wonder that they have to check if its possible to increase it..but that does mean that we will hit the limit sometime in the future...

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To be frank, personally I doubt that there are technical issues at all to begin with. I cannot imagine people capable of programing such a game to not know about the very basics of databases and their management, which is one of the most important parts of doing any program (game or otherwise). The excuse "technical limitations" is just that. Since no one can (legally) check the actual programing, no one can legally expose that they're just blatantly lying to avoid doing stuff that they don't feel like doing.

From a business perspective, businesses frequently do things that their clients don't want, in order to get more money. But "I want more money, so you have to pay for it too." sounds a lot worse than "I don't want to make you pay extra, but something outside of my control doesn't let me not take your money." does. Basically, Square Enix wants the game to have flawed systems in order to make paying extra to circumvent them more attractive. In this case, retainers are an example.

And the extra free slots?! Of course there's a point where players will just say "stop", especially in a subscription-based game. So they need to throw a bone here or there. Don't worry. They will just add a ton of new items to clog up your new inventory so you'll still want more.

This is a sad state, but honestly, I can understand it. There are few people like me that understand that businesses want to earn as much money and at as low a cost as possible. If they were honest, they would lose a lot of players feeling "hurt" in some way by that honesty. So they are just maiming those. In the end, the players still pay and play cause they enjoy the game overall.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Reading such posts I sometimes wonder if maybe SE doesnt have that great of IT experts working with them. Maybe they need more employees from around the world with different experiences and views of these things because sometimes I get the feeling that they simply dont know how to do it better. Because if they really use a system that will always send all the information then its no wonder that they have to check if its possible to increase it..but that does mean that we will hit the limit sometime in the future...

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or they're building on a base written by many outsourced companies and hastily written over to save the game.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

or they're building on a base written by many outsourced companies and hastily written over to save the game.

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Which also means that they will hit their limit somewhere in the future. Both cases are not exactly reassuring as a paying player.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

Which also means that they will hit their limit somewhere in the future. Both cases are not exactly reassuring as a paying player.

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This is true. As will every other game you will ever play. Admittedly this ones breaking point is within view, but no game lasts forever.
I would LOVE to see this game have the longevity that WoW has had, but I'm realistic about what it's built on. When it comes down to it, this game will likely endure many more jury-riggs before they finally decide it's more trouble than it's worth to maintain and move to the next project. In the mean time however, WHEEE!

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

This is true. As will every other game you will ever play. Admittedly this ones breaking point is within view, but no game lasts forever.
I would LOVE to see this game have the longevity that WoW has had, but I'm realistic about what it's built on. When it comes down to it, this game will likely endure many more jury-riggs before they finally decide it's more trouble than it's worth to maintain and move to the next project. In the mean time however, WHEEE!

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hmmm, how long has ffxi/wow been going on now that is not suffering like this game is?

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

This is true. As will every other game you will ever play. Admittedly this ones breaking point is within view, but no game lasts forever.
I would LOVE to see this game have the longevity that WoW has had, but I'm realistic about what it's built on. When it comes down to it, this game will likely endure many more jury-riggs before they finally decide it's more trouble than it's worth to maintain and move to the next project. In the mean time however, WHEEE!

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There were games where the entire game was converted to a new engine that removed limitations of the previous one. I never did play or care about World of Warcraft, but that game itself I believe is an example of that, more or less.

Ultimately, a "game engine" is just an automatic translator. It's not like writing the game from scratch again, though yes, the amount of time and effort required IS large, hence why it is done rarely. Financially, for most games, it is more efficient to "milk" the old game from last drop of money it can get while adding extra budget for a completely new game, I reckon. At least, that's what most businesses would believe.

Smaller changes however, I do not think would require all that much in comparison. If there is a system or two that are just completely out of date, they should be possible to remake without changing the parts that manage as they are. After all, all of this is just software limitation and the only limits to what can be done in that department are time, skills and hardware.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

There were games where the entire game was converted to a new engine that removed limitations of the previous one. I never did play or care about World of Warcraft, but that game itself I believe is an example of that, more or less.

Ultimately, a "game engine" is just an automatic translator. It's not like writing the game from scratch again, though yes, the amount of time and effort required IS large, hence why it is done rarely. Financially, for most games, it is more efficient to "milk" the old game from last drop of money it can get while adding extra budget for a completely new game, I reckon. At least, that's what most businesses would believe.
Smaller changes however, I do not think would require all that much in comparison. If there is a system or two that are just completely out of date, they should be possible to remake without changing the parts that manage as they are. After all, all of this is just software limitation and the only limits to what can be done in that department are time, skills and hardware.

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You've misunderstood me if you think I believe they drop everything, kill the servers and then go "whelp, that's that. Time to START work on the next one." I know my development cycles well enough to imagine that IF they're planning to wind down FFXIV they know about it NOW and are in some stage of building the next one.

Smaller changes obviously don't suffer the same restriction but will affect ANY other systems that interact with them in any way, BUT we're talking currently about why a small change was made. A reason was given, citing a technical limitation which likely (don't know explicitly) stems from the gobbledygook left over from the LAST time an engine change was made and now people are saying another one should be done instead of this small tweak. Thus I reworded the reason, and I'm probably going to get responses like "well they should have just changed everything from the ground up".

Round in circles we go.

People have been answering an A or B question in this thread with demands for a C. It's pretty silly.

Would you like water or juice? WHY CAN'T I HAVE SODA IN EVERY FLAVOR?

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Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

hmmm, how long has ffxi/wow been going on now that is not suffering like this game is?

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WoW kept adding bigger bags (they stopped recently), void storage/transmog came out 7 years later and crafting mat bank 10 years later. It also took until recently to increase the default backpack size by a whopping 4 slots. Their excuse was the same as SE's (code is old, game would break if we went near it). We aren't doing that bad all things considered.

XI didn't get rid of it's space issues until recently, base game you started with 50 carried only and 50 in your inn room. They sell wardrobe space now actually, before that it would be an event to get more space and usually only 5 spaces at a time while being a pain (gobbiebag quests), usually the items required for the quest were expensive. Both the carried and safe only went up to 80. Locker was one of the first inventory expansions and you had to keep it going by using a currency but could only be used in inn rooms. Satchel came out after that but needed a physical token attached (no software token back then) to the account, could be used anywhere. They then added the Sack which was actually a second inventory you could use anywhere. They added the wardrobe recently which is basically the armoury chest from XIV but now it loads super slow when you change areas. You have to wait like 10-20 seconds for everything to load on area change.

Literally people did not have enough space during 2004-2010. I even knew someone who was abusing the delivery box to get more space by sending items to themselves and not taking them out/using return to cycle it to the back (lol) so it got backed up so bad it took a while for it to cycle to the item they wanted. Or people with tons of alts (mules) just holding their stuff. The no bs saddlebag is already way better than anything XI added before the sack.

On topic, I'd rather have more plates if given a choice or a way to copy and paste them or something easily if they decide to go with the more areas.

I feel like the problem with glamour plates is that they don't fulfill their intended purpose well. This is the absolute worst possible solution they could have come up with for the problem of wanting to be able to have separate glamours for the same gear for different jobs. Hands down, the worst. Not doing anything would have been better than this. That being said, it's a decent step for making glamours themselves slightly less obnoxious. THAT being said I think it's a step in the completely wrong direction.

There's a meme that has been floating around for awhile about not being afraid to correct a mistake just because you spent a long time making it, and I think it's something this dev team really needs to take to heart. They seem so unwilling to look back at absolutely terrible ideas they've implemented in the past and remove them. Either letting them rot or somehow trying to ducttape them into not being so bad.

So in the remote chance that the Dev team would actually ever see this; Glamour Plates are NOT an adequate answer to the playerbase's desire to have different glamour sets based on which job they are playing. Nothing you do to the current glamour system will allow for an adequate solution to that problem. Glamour needs a fundamental change to the way it works before you will find an adequate solution to this problem.

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Originally Posted by Ferth

There's a meme that has been floating around for awhile about not being afraid to correct a mistake just because you spent a long time making it, and I think it's something this dev team really needs to take to heart. They seem so unwilling to look back at absolutely terrible ideas they've implemented in the past and remove them. Either letting them rot or somehow trying to ducttape them into not being so bad.

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It's not really "being afraid," exactly, it's that the complexity of reworking a core system is enormous and the complications far-reaching. Changing the way glamour works at a fundamental level would at least impact the netcode, cross-server handoffs, the server data storage configuration, and have a direct impact on all equipment items in inventories (including in retainers, etc.) and related UIs and client-side cache -- and you'd have to do it in such a way that is backwards compatible or allows people to transition. This is the most major and riskiest kind of change possible in an evolving software project. So before you tackle such a large, complex, risky project you'd want to try to exhaust every other option, even if they're not perfect, since the amount of time/cost/risk is much smaller. With something like the Glamour Dresser, they can assign a small side-team to it, since it builds on the existing core. A fundamental rework of a major system means you need to coordinate all your top talent across the whole dev team, and take them off other high-priority work.

Basically, everything is about managing trade-offs. To keep the dev team releasing updates on a regular schedule, you can clearly observe (throughout all aspects of the dev roadmap) that the FFXIV team prioritizes stability over reinvention. That approach has its benefits and drawbacks, like everything, but one of the drawbacks is certainly things like this.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

You've misunderstood me(...)

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You've got it backwards.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

(...)if you think I believe they drop everything, kill the servers and then go "whelp, that's that. Time to START work on the next one." I know my development cycles well enough to imagine that IF they're planning to wind down FFXIV they know about it NOW and are in some stage of building the next one.

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Wherever did I say that they would just up and drop it?! And what would be the point of that?! You can't milk a cow that you butcher. Not to mention the idiocy of throwing away a 'fundraiser' for the most costly and most risky step of a development of an MMO.
I know of a game that is managing all on their hardcore players for YEARS, despite them being sucked off of money at every corner. And this game wasn't even dropped to Free to Play which would surely happen before it'd be scrapped. Of course...with loads of crap added to the item mall.

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Originally Posted by Krotoan

(...)BUT we're talking currently about why a small change was made.

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No, 'we' don't. I see nothing as such in your post to which I responded and I did not respond in any way about that. I was just responding to your first three phrases. It's entirely possible for a game to never reach its limit because it's possible to increase the point at which those limits are through an engine swap. Whether it's easy or hard depends on many factors, one of them being the similarity between the engines, another being the way the developers built the game. However, it is very much possible to convert any and all games, provided enough time and effort is put.

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Originally Posted by Vaer

WoW kept adding bigger bags (they stopped recently), void storage/transmog came out 7 years later and crafting mat bank 10 years later. It also took until recently to increase the default backpack size by a whopping 4 slots. Their excuse was the same as SE's (code is old, game would break if we went near it). We aren't doing that bad all things considered.

XI didn't get rid of it's space issues until recently, base game you started with 50 carried only and 50 in your inn room. They sell wardrobe space now actually, before that it would be an event to get more space and usually only 5 spaces at a time while being a pain (gobbiebag quests), usually the items required for the quest were expensive. Both the carried and safe only went up to 80. Locker was one of the first inventory expansions and you had to keep it going by using a currency but could only be used in inn rooms. Satchel came out after that but needed a physical token attached (no software token back then) to the account, could be used anywhere. They then added the Sack which was actually a second inventory you could use anywhere. They added the wardrobe recently which is basically the armoury chest from XIV but now it loads super slow when you change areas. You have to wait like 10-20 seconds for everything to load on area change.

Literally people did not have enough space during 2004-2010. I even knew someone who was abusing the delivery box to get more space by sending items to themselves and not taking them out/using return to cycle it to the back (lol) so it got backed up so bad it took a while for it to cycle to the item they wanted. Or people with tons of alts (mules) just holding their stuff. The no bs saddlebag is already way better than anything XI added before the sack.

On topic, I'd rather have more plates if given a choice or a way to copy and paste them or something easily if they decide to go with the more areas.

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https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/The_Histo...antasy_XI/2004

I would disagree on 2001-2004 being an issue, much like early 2.0 for this game on the bases it did not have a lot as far as gear wise and I do not think gear changes really got main stream till ATU, and that is when you got locker. Saying a drawback was needing those coins is a joke, it would be no different then saying you need 1k gil a week for this game to double your retainer space.

The need of a token is also insignificant as it was a one time purchase, unlike the retainer rental of FFXIV. Adding characters to act like retainers was also cheaper, 1dollar a month, not 2 dollars a month with a higher cap amount of characters.

The problem with this game is it did nothing to increase n HW, when things became nuts with all the added currency pouring in your inventory, along with 4 jobs since the release of 2.0 to go unaccounted for in regards of an armory expansion. WoW is also not dealing with 26 classes on one character. Plus I asked how long where those games going on for without inventory problems, and to me you admitted ffxi ended its inventory problems in 2010. Also neither wow or ffxi is having problems with crafting material bloat. In SB you are still having current crafts using HW and 2.0 based materials, and sometimes even vendor trash that is sold for 2-10 gil. The issue is not how one is able get these items, it is holding on these insane amount of materials (as in different ones, not 999 of a single one) then you have to consider some FFXIV's crafts has 6 different materials to make it, and some of those mats are also crafted. WoW nor FFXI is that insane when it comes to item collecting for crafts.

FFXIV was never better off then the 2 games mentioned starting at HW+. FFXIV is offering some fixes now, but it is still not enough to cover the increasing amount of items they keep giving us + the back log of missing changes. FFXI also had Ps2 limitation problems that they needed work around, FFXIV is on the ps4, or having windows 32 bit be a limiter. I would think that should have a lot less inventory problems then a game that was stuck on the ps2 for the longest time.

How many currencies exist for current content? one of each for each extreme primal, the 24 man token, head slot, body slot, hand slot, leg slot, feet slot, right side slot, weapon each of these has a currency (don't forget that weapon currency needs to be exchanged for another currency while using tomestones to by a totally different currency before you get your weapon) to upgrade them has a currency, savage has a currency, now we got 2 currencies added for WT, and you wonder why people say this game is the worst MNO right now when it comes to inventory management?

They should remove their current limitations. Why in a main town and not elsewhere? Also, they need to make these glamours permanent. I'd like to switch back and forth without my glamous breaking every 5-10 seconds.

TBH my hope is for the plates to be linked to your class/job like red mage gets 5/10 plates to work with then warrior then so on.

I believe 5 plates per job is good number, plus it makes it so you'll want to lvl up more jobs for more plates.

or maybe a plate for a job per the job 10 lvls. idk this one may end up being to much work for the devs.

You can already link plates to your gearsets, so it reapplies the glamour when you equip it. From memory, right-click the gearset and there should be an option to link a plate.

Having the availability of plates tied to jobs would be unhelpful, I think. Better to keep them separate so you can apply any of them to anything.

I personally would choose to have more plates. It's not a big deal for me to go to a major city to edit/swap plates; I just want more of them. I hope someday we get a glamour system more like the ones in WoW or GW2, though.

More plates as well.
Actually, more storage in the glamour cabinet. I think 600 would be a minimum