The length of battles, the pace of combat... and the overall feel of combat.

Yes I agree that for a pary that it is just a zerg fest. Now what SE should have done is used the FFXI combat system and used it in FFXIV and improved on it but they didnt. All that was done was add a bar with limits on what you could add to it. So now SE has added a combo system, and I personaly think its just lame, I would rather have skill chains and magic burst but FFXIV isnt set up for this kind of battle system.
It all boils down to the fact that the original team who started development on it did not want any of it to be like FFXI and that was a big mistake. What they have done is just another WoW clone knock-off/wanna be, in the combat department. Now hopefully in 2.0 the new development team will use the battle system from FFXI but thats highly doubtful. DoW and DoM battle command bar seems like its cheap, cheesy or whatever you want to call. It seems that they just toss the bar in with no creativity because it was easy to do, there is no creativity in it at all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andrien

(IMO) The combat and pace of battles is fine for regular monsters, otherwise EXP chain system will be null. Strategy and difficult battles is good for bosses, high lvl monsters, and NM. Do you want strategy for grinding on regular exp mobs @_@??? I don't agree

---

Thats not true at all, the length of a regular battle in 11 was much longer and you could chain in the 100's.

You assume that changing one aspect would stop them from changing another.

Quote:

---

What they have done is just another WoW clone knock-off/wanna be

---

Nope, WoW and its clones have a much better battle system.

I agree with OP. Mindless zerg-type battles flood the landscape. It is not fun for me. Mobs fall so quick that there is no room for strategy.

Fights are full of links currently. Links are great for experience points, but the fights are not fun. I like the one mob fights that require strategy as well as proper party set-ups (e.g. puller/fisherman, tank, healer, DD).

I think combat is pretty fun now, when you can actually get people to do an exp party... And with the server pop the way it is and most people having had almost all of their jobs PL'd to 50 in that STUPID period they had going (now people are so bored cause nothing to do) I think its a great thing you don't have to seek out one particular job. (Aside from a CON)

I have had two parties in the past two days, and we really just did awesome^^ I was engaged the whole time, and nobody wanted to leave cause the time put in was worth the reward in EXP we were receiving. Choosing longer fights is ok with me, but... I dare some of you to go watch a battle in FFXI on youtube now. I swear that game seems so slow paced to me now, comparing it to XIV... and I'm not sure that's the direction we want to go in. (I loved XI btw)

**Oh, and please tell me what strategy was needed when leveling up in XI. As long as you weren't stupid and could play your job, party setups could be quite diverse. Same as here, if you have someone who constantly pulls to much / afk / doesn't heal / etc you can get yourself in a bind pretty quick too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OranGemeo

I think combat is pretty fun now, when you can actually get people to do an exp party... And with the server pop the way it is and most people having had almost all of their jobs PL'd to 50 in that STUPID period they had going (now people are so bored cause nothing to do) I think its a great thing you don't have to seek out one particular job. (Aside from a CON)

I have had two parties in the past two days, and we really just did awesome^^ I was engaged the whole time, and nobody wanted to leave cause the time put in was worth the reward in EXP we were receiving. Choosing longer fights is ok with me, but... I dare some of you to go watch a battle in FFXI on youtube now. I swear that game seems so slow paced to me now, comparing it to XIV... and I'm not sure that's the direction we want to go in. (I loved XI btw)

**Oh, and please tell me what strategy was needed when leveling up in XI. As long as you weren't stupid and could play your job, party setups could be quite diverse. Same as here, if you have someone who constantly pulls to much / afk / doesn't heal / etc you can get yourself in a bind pretty quick too.

---

I disagree fights now are boring. On top of this we have mobs of different species linking to help another species. There is no strategy in the combat now it is just a zerg fest. Combos meh boring as well, even thm combos woopy do so i can just stand there and chain lightening or fire. What we needs is skill chains and magic burst now that was something that was interesting.
The combat in FFXI maybe it was slow but at least there was strategy meaning if too many mobs link pop sleepaga 1 or 2, rdm for refresh, thf to help control hate. What we have in FFXIV is none of that, its nothing but a mindless zerg fest. A lot of players wanted faster kill so they gave it to us. Now look at what we have or dont have. There is something to be said for slower combat vs a faster pace combat system. FFXIV is a step backwards, we have no skill chain nor do we have magic bursts. All players do is going kill the monsters as fast as they can, there is no feeling of danger.
I have said this before and ill say it again the develpopers should have use the combat system from FFXI and improved on it, but they didnt they gave the players what they wanted and now those same players are complaining about what they asked for. Now what do we do , well for starters we need to let the develpoers develop this game without player imput. The development team should continue to do surveys and thats it, dont ask players to tell them what they want in the game. The develpopers should ask the question or questions and they should be answered yes or no only.
Look at the crafting system from FFXI now look at the crafting sytem in FFXIV. They used the system somewhat from FFXI and improved upon it greatly. Now I am not saying the crafting system is w/o some issues.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinko

Thats not true at all, the length of a regular battle in 11 was much longer and you could chain in the 100's.

You assume that changing one aspect would stop them from changing another.

---

I'm not sure what the majority here wants anymore. I'm not going to say you're right or wrong.. However if you want to compare with XI.. XI is mainly focused in forcing players to group together to exp. Now I don't know how long you've spent time in XI, but I know people along with myself has gone up far beyond EXP Chain 300. That is 1 kill in less than 20-30sec.

Back to XIV and the future. Grouping is not forced on us. I'm positive new group content will satisfy everyone needs. Being optimistic

i dont want fights to be too slow but right now as soon as the mobs notice you're there hes dead, so whats the deal of getting a group of 8 to just watch the mobs die, yeah you could go with less players but they're gonna say that the exp will be slower, so what i proppose is to make the fights 4 or 5 times longer with 4 or 5 times more exp in it, so at the end you will enjoy using several skills and weapon skills to kill the mobs, you will learn your class and you will enjoy it, and if you're worry about exp well you'll be earning a lot more exp per mob.

And for those worried for large scale PvE well, maybe SE can make those mobs with different stats or just give us lower level mobs so you can bash hundreds if you want the epic feeling, then add stronger waves progressively until you meet the boss of the battlefield.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OranGemeo

I think combat is pretty fun now, when you can actually get people to do an exp party... And with the server pop the way it is and most people having had almost all of their jobs PL'd to 50 in that STUPID period they had going (now people are so bored cause nothing to do) I think its a great thing you don't have to seek out one particular job. (Aside from a CON)

I have had two parties in the past two days, and we really just did awesome^^ I was engaged the whole time, and nobody wanted to leave cause the time put in was worth the reward in EXP we were receiving. Choosing longer fights is ok with me, but... I dare some of you to go watch a battle in FFXI on youtube now. I swear that game seems so slow paced to me now, comparing it to XIV... and I'm not sure that's the direction we want to go in. (I loved XI btw)

**Oh, and please tell me what strategy was needed when leveling up in XI. As long as you weren't stupid and could play your job, party setups could be quite diverse. Same as here, if you have someone who constantly pulls to much / afk / doesn't heal / etc you can get yourself in a bind pretty quick too.

---

I don't think we're speaking about the same thing when we say "strategy," you and I. Depending on the type of mob, a different set of tactics would be needed. Something like choosing a risky, high-link-rate spot and having a NIN work her/his enfeebling wheel, in cooperation with a BLM, while the THF balanced hate, and the RDM further enfeebled and did crowd control. All in sync. If you added a good tank (another NIN with an alternate, for excitement and edge-of-the-abyss high jinks, or a PLD and a good healer for rock-solid, stable party action,) you could tackle higher or more numerous mobs as the group's interactions became better and better with practice.

You'd die a lot, but after a while you could sail through the area with ease, and then, soon, you'd be above level range. Once this happened, it was onwards to another camp, another set of mobs, another set of environmental difficulties, another level range, and another tactical set up.

R

A lot of people seem to be confusing "stronger mobs that require more strategy" with "make us group together with specific job classes" which is not the point of this thread. The point is that the current party system requires very little effort on any ones part. I have not hit 50 yet, but when I party on my conjurer I usually always have max mp because the battles do not last long enough for anyone to really receive any damage. When I party with a DD, I am able to hit the target maybe 3 or 4 times (if I am lucky) before the thing bites the big one. The excitement and danger presented with grouping is very very minimal and needs to be changed. I am not saying to bring back the old combat system of FF11, but those fights did require a lot more thinking, planning, and reacting to situations that have gone horrible wrong. Even the "easy" fights did require some thinking. Turn your back to the Taurus or else it will cast death on you. Run to the side to avoid the Raptor breath. The Puk just knocked the entire party back and now you picked up extra aggro so someone must either kite, tank, or sleep the new link while the party destroys the original Puk. Those battles were fun, those battles required decent players who had to know the weaknesses and strengths of their job to accomplish. A little bit of strategy and thinking in battle is all that I and many other players are asking for.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RahJah

I agree with OP. Mindless zerg-type battles flood the landscape. It is not fun for me. Mobs fall so quick that there is no room for strategy.

Fights are full of links currently. Links are great for experience points, but the fights are not fun. I like the one mob fights that require strategy as well as proper party set-ups (e.g. puller/fisherman, tank, healer, DD).

---

Yeah I pretty much feel the same way as you do.

Quote:

---

A lot of people seem to be confusing "stronger mobs that require more strategy" with "make us group together with specific job classes" which is not the point of this thread.

---

Thank you!

R

i think everyone has said what we mean about strategy, in WoW you could go bashing mobs at will without any trouble, the tank could keep up with 10+mobs at the same time, so for me that was boring. In XI you had a feeling that if u mess up everyone could end up dead, so u had to watch your moves and pulls in order to survive and do exp. So at the end u were engaged all the time while being on exp parties. Right now u can even link with other mobs by mistake or something and not end up dead because the mobs are too weak so they die too fast. If they changed the exp earned and the mob difficulty you could get the treat feeling, like being nervous all the time to get aggro from certain mobs.

I remember a Tonberry temple where you had to go avoiding mobs contact in order to get to a quest place, so all the way there you were watching everything around you and were immersed in the game.

Take for example the leves, go to leve camp as lvl 30 in any class and put 2 or 3 stars and you'll see what i mean about the need of tactics, try the ants leve in nanawa mines and see if u can keep up with 2 ants at the same time, now bind one and kill one by one and tell me what you think after, and add to that if you could get a lot more exp for that having the same difficulty with a full party exp grinding and you'll see wich one you enjoy more.

I'm a bit torn on the issues the OP addresses. The balance is hard to strike and I can't say that I enjoyed XI's system over XIV.. entirely.

I do miss the strategy required and the time in order to fulfill a well thought out strategy in a party setting during experience but I can't entirely disagree with XIV's pacing either.

I noticed that battles go by too fast in a party, but are perfectly paced from a solo perspective. I find the pace of combat in a party makes typing almost inconsequential as I'm too involved with triggering the next action to legitimately make a statement during the flow of battle, let alone in a multilingual party. I can't honestly say that's a bad thing though.

Ultimately I prefer XIV's system over XI's system from day one and pace has a lot to do with that. I like that I have to think more strategically when solo but in a Full Party I can chill a bit more when I have "Strength in Numbers*".

This MMO, form a social perspective, does need some sort of optional in game voice communication though. I love being able to chit-chat and get to know people when I'm in a party but it's almost impossible strictly from a design perspective. The flow of battle with the manual dexterity that is required, seems to act as the ultimate deterrent to communication via text. I often use Mumble or Ventrilo to talk with my friends but it's a bit frustrating because non Vent/Mumble players don't have access to the same level of ease in regards to communication. This will only be exacerbated when the PS3 version is released as none of those players will have access to the common VoIP programs available to PC users.

Regardless, I love actually playing my characters. Controlling them to the extent so far in XIV has been an absolute blast and gives me that Secret of Mana style of nostalgia. I'd also be afraid to see the slower, steadier, more static combat that was prevalent in XI come back to XIV. All things considered, if I had to pick a side, I'd happily trade playability for communication even in an MMO because people leave regardless of circumstances and I can always save conversation for outside of battle. I'd rather not be distracted anyways, but I think a viable in game-software based-cross platform voice software would be wonderful and would solve at least some problems that I have with the commuication/gameplay conundrum.

I find that light parties are a lot of fun as well and is still a good balance, pacewise, between solo and full party play. To add, the strategy involved with higher scale battles such as boss fights is a good way to get that strategy craving under control. Unfortunately even then, once you've beat the boss it pretty much becomes second nature and entirely too repetitive. Mix the current drop rates in and the rewards seem to only be certificates of sadism rather than trophies of accomplishment

All in all, I'm still conflicted.

I appreciate the breath and the tone of the opinions expressed so far on this thread. Thanks go to all who have contributed. Other than this, I think I need to clarify a couple of points.

It was my perception that the new development team had promised us a 2-avenue game. These 2 avenues were as follow: a) A path on which you could build up your character by soloing and sometimes gathering in light groups with your other casual-minded friends, and b) another different path of progression on which tactical, strategy-demanding, and more formal gameplay would be available by means of content devised specifically for full groups (and those wanting to deal with the complications and vagaries of full-party gathering and management.)

So far this 2-pronged approach has not materialized. I cannot blame solo oriented players for wanting to play the way they enjoy most, but I feel I'm being penalized, and forced to play in a way I don't enjoy, solely for the preservation of that group's rights. It's not surprise I have started to resent them a little.

This stings particularly since the same company that is creating this situation in this game killed my favored play style in my native world of Vana'diel. A world which, by the way, besides being one of the cradles of that play style, had become its only refuge in the vast and ever-expanding MMO universe.

R