It's time to reinstate Housing Auto-Demolitions

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Originally Posted by Ibkee

bleh bleh

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4. Well since back in 2016 they stopped the demolishing because of the earthquakes in Japan and then after everyone got power back reinstated it im going to say answer to number 4 is yes, here is a link to the lodestone https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...5d347171c939d9
5. It wont effect other areas of the game, this is trying to cause an issue that isnt at hand, this is a straw man fallacy. If SE said anything about it halting other parts of the game we could talk about it.
3. Im not sure on this one because i dont play any other MMOs, but imo its a good thing that SE cares enough about the people that cant play.
1&2. The reason i brought this up is you act like you have been locked out of housing when its not true.

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Originally Posted by QuinceTaru

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I'm aware they stopped it for the Japan earthquakes. This in no way answers why Puerto Rico alone justifies no housing demolitions. For reference, Japan has 3 million players according to the unofficial census, that's almost as many as there are people in Puerto Rico.

Yes it won't affect other areas of the game, but your argument is that it's unfair to users in Puerto Rico (ignoring other parts of the world where they are unable to login due to events outside their control, of course) but that argument can equally apply to any content.

SE did well to stop demolitions originally, for the grace period of two weeks, but I can tell you it hasn't happened just for Puerto Rico in other MMO. Why? Because it simply isn't significant enough. It sucks, I know, but it has to be a big issue to affect the service of (a majority of) other players.

We'll have to agree to disagree on whether FC housing is sufficient for anyone, I suppose. IPlenty want their own place, which is the reason several in here don't want it reinstated so they don't lose their private houses.

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Originally Posted by Ibkee

I live in a country currently at war. I'm sorry for your lack of electricity, but you have yet to demonstrate why housing demolitions should continue to be suspended on your behalf alone.

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In point of fairness, you've also yet to demonstrate why it's critical for demolitions to be reinstated, particularly prior to 4.2. Indeed, the following line from your OP constitutes the core of your argument:

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For me, checking the wards for an open plot used to be quite a fun activity each day and I feel the reinstation of the auto-demolish rule would do much to curb the spiralling housing black market prices and tide players over until 4.2.

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I think it's quite a stretch to suggest that the black market prices would be curbed by reinstating auto-demolition at this time. Even if they were, however, this wasn't the purpose of the auto-demolition system; the purpose was to recycle relatively unused housing plots so that other people had a chance to purchase them (via legitimate means, not the black market). It's difficult to believe that servers with sky-high black market prices for housing will suddenly have open plots available if demolition kicks back in; people will simply snap them up in order to make a quick profit, and we'll be back to square one. It's servers on the margins (if any are left), ones with a virtually non-existent black market or a very mild one, that actually realize the goals of auto-demolition. If you happen to live on one of these servers, there's a legitimate argument to make. But you can't get pity points by referencing spiraling black markets while also making a strong argument for the return of the demolition timers.

Your personal enjoyment, as I'm sure you know, also isn't a justification.

All this to say, I don't think this is a scenario in which most people can make an empirical argument for or against. Views are relative, and neither side should have to "demonstrate" the validity of their opinions. Speaking, I think the continued suspension of the timers is a fantastic decision, and I'll be angry if SE ever decides to put them back in. Their implementation of housing has been shoddy from the start, and the demolition timers were a half-arsed band-aid, the costs of which were borne by players rather than SE. Rather than ask for the shoddy band-aid back, I'd advocate we continue asking for a real solution.

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Originally Posted by Vhailor

Their implementation of housing has been shoddy from the start, and the demolition timers were a half-arsed band-aid, the costs of which were borne by players rather than SE. Rather than ask for the shoddy band-aid back, I'd advocate we continue asking for a real solution.

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This.
/10char

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Originally Posted by Vhailor

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This is a good post, thank you.

Will answer with the reasons I think Housing demolition should be reinstated, particularly with 4.2 on the (albeit distant) horizon;
1. Server black market prices for housing have increased, undoubtedly, and continue to do so despite 4.2 being so close. This is simple supply and demand economics - there has always been a shortage of supply but that has become even more profound with players no longer losing their homes due to inactivity.
2. With limited resources available, the priority should be given to players who play right now. This you have already noted.
3. Unlike other solutions to housing problems, this is one we know SE will actually cause to happen. Housing demolitions are coming back, we just don't know when.

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Originally Posted by Senn

This.
/10char

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You have literally nothing to contribute here other than spam, trolls and strawmen.

Do you own a house in game?

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Originally Posted by Ibkee

bleh

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The earthquakes in Japan caused roughly 160k people to not have power/homes by what i could find. Hurricane Irma caused over 1 mil people to not have power/homes so yes i think it does justify them turning off the house demolishing. I think if a natural disaster effects any country that has access to FFXIV then ya the housing demolishing should be stopped. Also, you keep comparing FFXIV to other MMOs and what they have done, i for one am glad that SE doesn't ignore its players maybe other MMOs should try it. Also the two weeks grace period was before they realized how long it was going to be to get power back to PR. They stopped the demolishing from the earthquakes for one full patch im sure they will do the same in this case and it will come back with 4.2.

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Originally Posted by Ibkee

You have literally nothing to contribute here other than spam, trolls and strawmen.

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I don't think I've strawman'd you. I think you have your priorities straight and I know how much you must be suffering because you can't get a house on ffxiv. :^(

My argument is SE should find an actual solution to the housing problem. No demolition timer.
I hope 4.2 will give us a good solution.

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Originally Posted by Ibkee

This is a good post, thank you.

Will answer with the reasons I think Housing demolition should be reinstated, particularly with 4.2 on the (albeit distant) horizon;
1. Server black market prices for housing have increased, undoubtedly, and continue to do so despite 4.2 being so close. This is simple supply and demand economics - there has always been a shortage of supply but that has become even more profound with players no longer losing their homes due to inactivity.
2. With limited resources available, the priority should be given to players who play right now. This you have already noted.
3. Unlike other solutions to housing problems, this is one we know SE will actually cause to happen.

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1. I'm doubting! Bring some numbers to back your claim.
2. Fair enough
3. It's not a solution though. There is no solution with this housing system, but they're in too deep to fix it.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

3. It's not a solution though. There is no solution with this housing system, but they're in too deep to fix it.

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Although not a complete solution, it would ensure anyone who wanted a house could at least get one. And that is, keep the wards as they are, but add an instanced housing area in Ishgard. Want to keep it true to lore? Make it so you have to have beaten the Heavensward MSQ (or at least the last bit of the Dragonsong War MSQ and henceforth be in Post-Dragonsong War MSQ territory) to be able to access and purchase. Now, for FC houses, you can offer a teleport but it's in a way you can't access Ishgard that way, and possibly with a different backdrop, if you haven't met requirements. There is a way to add instanced housing without deleting what we have currently.

It would be cool if they gave us airship housing for an instanced version that could exist alongside current housing. Gil could be paid to make it bigger, it could be player or fc (we've seen big airships *looks at the ship we take to Rabanastre*). But thats my pipedream.

I agree that it's time to reinstate the auto demolition.

hum

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Originally Posted by GILDREIN

Q: Will there be any maintenance fees or other costs for housing, besides the cost of the land and house?
A: [...]these older MMOs also had a system where your house would break down if you didn’t log in after a while in order to have you continue your subscription, but this is a thing of the past and we won't have any system like that.

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hum

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

Although not a complete solution, it would ensure anyone who wanted a house could at least get one. And that is, keep the wards as they are, but add an instanced housing area in Ishgard.

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They are never making instanced housing.

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G: Are there any plans, maybe in the long-term, to provide new wards on demand dynamically, allowing all players will be able to get a house? Alternatively, could apartments be expanded with things like terraces or yards, to allow those who don’t have a house to access outdoor features?

NY: I’m not sure exactly what you mean by “dynamically,” but with us making active efforts to alleviate current issues with the addition of new plots, I believe we will be able to be more flexible in accommodating housing-related issues. However, we are not able to create a system in which land is generated automatically whenever there is a deficiency, or create a system in which the number of plots changes depending on a world’s population.

“Following those initial updates, we would like to shift our focus to new initiatives, including updates to apartments.”

The reason we would not choose to implement a system such as this is that it could compromise the stability of the housing areas, which we want to avoid at all costs—your understanding would be appreciated.

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https://www.dualshockers.com/final-f...naoki-yoshida/

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Originally Posted by Senn

I don't think I've strawman'd you. I think you have your priorities straight and I know how much you must be suffering because you can't get a house on ffxiv. :^(

My argument is SE should find an actual solution to the housing problem. No demolition timer.
I hope 4.2 will give us a good solution.

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As long as we have wards and not instanced housing auto demolition is the only way to have a healthy and active housing situation. It's a 45 day timer and they let you know ahead of time before it gets demolished giving you a chance to keep it. If the house is important to you and you have one you will login and walk into it saving it from being demolished if not you obviously didn't care anymore and the demolition is a non-issue.

If we have wards and no demolishing of unused houses the game will eventually fill up all the wards with unused houses that no active playing and paying customer can use. What is the point to housing then? Just to mock everyone still playing?

Don't expect 4.2 to fix housing, it's very likely to be the same but more, and the more is very likely to be less than demand.

I’m just going to say the OP is entirely selfish.

Houston (population 6,928,233) was hit and I know for a fact many are having issues just rebuilding. Between the mold from the humid air, and price gougers trying to charge people an arm and a leg, people are still struggling to replace basic necessities just as furniture, kitchens, and just a place to live. My boyfriend is from there. Even with the money it is an up hill battle. i won’t even get to see him for the holidays because the house is a dusty hazard for me.

Puerto Rico (population 3,661,469) is just the tip of the ice berg when it comes to the US. But Puerto Rico has it the worst. They’re drinking from toxic water sources because there is no clean water. They have had no power - which is needed for basic rebuilding. They have no infrastructure at all much less the ability to buy supplies and food.

You, OP, are selfish. You care not for the sufferings of millions of people. All you want is a bloody pixel house. What happened to your empathy? Would you say the same if it was you in their place?

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Originally Posted by Kisagami

I’m just going to say the OP is entirely selfish.

Houston (population 6,928,233) was hit and I know for a fact many are having issues just rebuilding. Between the mold from the humid air, and price gougers trying to charge people an arm and a leg, people are still struggling to replace basic necessities just as furniture, kitchens, and just a place to live. My boyfriend is from there. Even with the money it is an up hill battle. i won’t even get to see him for the holidays because the house is a dusty hazard for me.

Puerto Rico (population 3,661,469) is just the tip of the ice berg when it comes to the US. But Puerto Rico has it the worst. They’re drinking from toxic water sources because there is no clean water. They have had no power - which is needed for basic rebuilding. They have no infrastructure at all much less the ability to buy supplies and food.

You, OP, are selfish. You care not for the sufferings of millions of people. All you want is a bloody pixel house. What happened to your empathy? Would you say the same if it was you in their place?

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Why do we have to pause house demos for the whole region though? Yes lots of people are/were/continue to be affected yet the vast majority of the NA region was not. They should be able to query their database, determine the players affected by billing address, and add a flag to their accounts so they can put a hold on them. The rest of us are just milking the situation.

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Originally Posted by DeaconMoore

Why do we have to pause house demos for the whole region though? Yes lots of people are/were/continue to be affected yet the vast majority of the NA region was not. They should be able to query their database, determine the players affected by billing address, and add a flag to their accounts so they can put a hold on them. The rest of us are just milking the situation.

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Because a system like that isn’t in place. They already canceled housing in Ishgard for Kugane and apartments. It would take game time away from PVE releases. It would require a rework of the current housing system. Until then, they are considering the needs of a large amount of players. SE has been an ethical company that puts it’s players first. Even those in awful situations. What other lead developer apologizes with tears when he disapoints his player base? Yoshi-P cares about us. I’d rather he keep it that way.

It’s easy for you in your noce warm home and your internet. Your privilege to have clean water, housing, and internet where millions of people do mot. You want to disregard a system put in place to protect those who lost everything. It’s one less thing for them to worry about - one tiny ounce of relief that their game escape is preserved while they rebuild.

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Originally Posted by Ibkee

Over two months after a hold was put on housing demolitions, with an initial grace period of 2 weeks, it's time they were brought back again.

I have no problem with the original hold, but now it just seems extraneous. How many players still no longer have power or wherewithal to access the game once in 45 days, as a result of Hurricane Irma?

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I have a few friends in Puerto Rico who still have no internet due to hurricane Irma. They currently have power, but parts of the country are still recovering still. Either way, While I understand that people would like to see this come back around, its still a very real thing in 3rd world countrys, and we should think of these people.

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Originally Posted by Kisagami

Because a system like that isn’t in place. They already canceled housing in Ishgard for Kugane and apartments. It would take game time away from PVE releases. It would require a rework of the current housing system. Until then, they are considering the needs of a large amount of players. SE has been an ethical company that puts it’s players first. Even those in awful situations. What other lead developer apologizes with tears when he disapoints his player base? Yoshi-P cares about us. I’d rather he keep it that way.

It’s easy for you in your noce warm home and your internet. Your privilege to have clean water, housing, and internet where millions of people do mot. You want to disregard a system put in place to protect those who lost everything. It’s one less thing for them to worry about - one tiny ounce of relief that their game escape is preserved while they rebuild.

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So if just one person isn't in a perfect place we all have to hold our breath and wait for them to catch up?

And what of the thousands more desiring a house and the players that straight up quit the game that the autodemo would have freed up by now? With demos in place even that poor soul that lost it all has a chance to get a house again. Without the demos the only chance any of us has to get a house is to pay someone that still playing for theirs. Forget about the houses from the no longer paying and completely unaffected former players.

As far as a majority of players? Really? Ffxiv boasted 10 million accounts worldwide. Your numbers for Houston and Puerto Rico makes that. The populations of those 2 areas does not constitute the majority of those accounts. Id be surprised if they passed 250,000 if even half that. Is there even that many houses in the game across all the servers?

And if you're so concerned about the welfare of these people are you over there volunteering to help rebuild? It'd do a heck of a lot more for them than complaining about a virtual house they probably don't even have getting demolished...

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Originally Posted by Ibkee

I have no problem with the original hold, but now it just seems extraneous. How many players still no longer have power or wherewithal to access the game once in 45 days, as a result of Hurricane Irma? .

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Maria is the one that did Puerto Rico in. They are expected to not have power for 6 months. I have an in game friend who lost everything... everything. His house washed away due to a flooded river. Display a little sympathy and you may see more people support you but your post is self serving.

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Originally Posted by Wintersandman

Maria is the one that did Puerto Rico in. They are expected to not have power for 6 months. I have an in game friend who lost everything... everything. His house washed away due to a flooded river. Display a little sympathy and you may see more people support you but your post is self serving.

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Plenty support this, take note of the Like count on the OP.

Of course we have some on here trying to scare off paying customers by libeling them as "uncaring" or "self-serving", so they don't comment.

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Originally Posted by Ibkee

Plenty support this, take note of the Like count on the OP.

Of course we have some on here trying to scare off paying customers by libeling them as "uncaring" or "self-serving", so they don't comment.

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16? That is a lot of support you got there.

I think if I was in such a devastating situation where it was a struggle to aquiree the basic necessities of life, the very last thing on my mind would be whether or not my fake pixel house in an online game was demolished or not. If someone wants to take this as proof that I'm a horrible uncaring person, then so it, but that's not my feeling or intention. Personally I couldn't care less about player housing, but since it does seem to be such an issue and in such scarce supply, I don't see why currently active paying customers shouldn't have the most access to housing in game.

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Originally Posted by DeaconMoore

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You don't really need to explain it to me. I think you and I know both sides of the argument relatively well. Despite understanding both sides, we still come to different conclusions. Even if housing just becomes a graveyard of unused houses, I still would not want a housing timer. SE should try to find another solution. I will never support the idea of a housing demolition timer.

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Originally Posted by Aerlana

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I wish they stuck with what they said. :(

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Originally Posted by Senn

I wish they stuck with what they said. :(

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hum...

1) look the other quote i have on my sign
2) this quote is from october the 30th in 2013... before Free Company Housing, and then, they added this 45 days system so... they already went over this announcement :p

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Originally Posted by Kisagami

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Houston got the most news coverage but all of coastal Texas got messed up pretty bad by Harvey. Port Aransas, Rockport, and Corpus Christi took big hits especially in the poorer neighborhoods. I know a person from Corpus Christi who lived in a trailer park that's just entirely gone now, they lost everything. Their family lived in a car in a national park for a while and I'm not sure where they even are now.

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Originally Posted by Tempest222

I think if I was in such a devastating situation where it was a struggle to aquiree the basic necessities of life, the very last thing on my mind would be whether or not my fake pixel house in an online game was demolished or not. If someone wants to take this as proof that I'm a horrible uncaring person, then so it, but that's not my feeling or intention. Personally I couldn't care less about player housing, but since it does seem to be such an issue and in such scarce supply, I don't see why currently active paying customers shouldn't have the most access to housing in game.

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My whole point is it is about approach. The fact that the OP only was thinking about 1 hurricane not 3 that devastated the US. Lets not forget the rest of the islands. Another friend of mine had already assumed his house was gone but he was ecstatic when I told him they got rid of the auto demolish timer.

Natural disasters occur all the time and like I said I get the OP's point. But the approach was self serving with no sympathy to those who are suffering and are paying subscribers. I bet you some of those are still paying their sub too. I can't imagine the first thing that crossed their mind was "Oh my house was destroyed or I don't have power. I should Cancel my sub that I don't have internet access to cancel". It took me a month to hear from one of my friends who came out ok. The other was only able to make a phone call to another mutual friend.

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Originally Posted by Senn

You don't really need to explain it to me. I think you and I know both sides of the argument relatively well. Despite understanding both sides, we still come to different conclusions. Even if housing just becomes a graveyard of unused houses, I still would not want a housing timer. SE should try to find another solution. I will never support the idea of a housing demolition timer.

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Wow. So, give the finger to the whole paying player base so people that once upon a time managed to buy a house before they quit get to keep it forever? Crafters just delete a good chunk of your recipes, they're just junk items. Want to level your chocobo past 11? Lol! Not going to happen unless you level an alt to get an onion! Woohoo! Oh, wait, you can't friend an alt to mail them the onion... I suppose they could just delete those parts of the game at that point, they may as well delete housing while they're at it too as it would serve zero purpose, well, besides giving the paying customers the finger.

I don't like the idea of a housing demo timer either, but with the housing system we have, it is needed, and given they're still only going to give us a "fair chance" to get a house and not a guarantee of a house, it's still going to be needed. Maybe one day, hopefully, they'll add instanced housing and allow us to keep those indefinitely.

And in case you're wondering I do have a house currently and I'm not looking to upgrade or anything. But even so, should I quit playing, I wouldn't lose any sleep over losing it too the demo timer. I knew full well the consequences when I bought it. If I'm not using it anymore, it should go to someone that will.

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Originally Posted by DeaconMoore

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Yes, give them the finger. No housing timer. Give us better solutions kthnx

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Originally Posted by DeaconMoore

Crafters just delete a good chunk of your recipes, they're just junk items. Want to level your chocobo past 11? Lol! Not going to happen unless you level an alt to get an onion! Woohoo! Oh, wait, you can't friend an alt to mail them the onion...

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Also idk what you're talking about here. You're kind of scaring me. :^(

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Originally Posted by Senn

Then they should figure out a way to make it accessible for everyone. Not add in a housing demolition timer.
I hope they come up with a housing solution in 4.2, and dump the demolition timer entirely.
If they can't find an actual solution, I'd still be for dumping the timer.

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They should defo keep the reclamaton feature. Before they made that there was shit tons of empty houses getting dust, active players not getting houses. It looks like that again without the feature, tons of houses sitting empty and unsued, even in EU servers... Idk why you have a problem with it unless you like to take long breaks and have to check in your house every now and then. But this feature right now is one solution for everyone to have houses, now they just need to add that one house per server and we're all good :D

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Originally Posted by Senn

Then they should figure out a way to make it accessible for everyone. Not add in a housing demolition timer.
I hope they come up with a housing solution in 4.2, and dump the demolition timer entirely.
If they can't find an actual solution, I'd still be for dumping the timer.

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As pointed out already...

Personal housing was going to be separate to FC housing...
Possibly like the apartments we have now...



But, instead of implementing it 'properly' where they were separate, they instead just allowed players to purchase the ward housing.

This mistake will always haunt the housing system.
There will never be enough houses unless something drastically changes.

The reclamation is the only way to free up housing from people who are no longer playing or using their houses.

Without the reclamation there would eventually be houses everywhere locked to accounts that were no longer playing.

Their lack of foresight forced their hand into doing something they had not wanted to do at all, they had never wanted to force players to have to pay or anything else just to keep their houses.

But, the system they made didn't allow them to keep that promise.

i honestly think there gonna keep it off cause they have nothing coming up to keep players in game till what jan/feb when 4.2hits... Im sure most of us have noticed the dwelding numbers of players and it just gonna get worse as the holiday games coe out. people drop subs and are just waiting for 4.2. if they started it back up now alot of houses would go in 45 days

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Originally Posted by Siniztor

i honestly think there gonna keep it off cause they have nothing coming up to keep players in game till what jan/feb when 4.2hits... Im sure most of us have noticed the dwelding numbers of players and it just gonna get worse as the holiday games coe out. people drop subs and are just waiting for 4.2. if they started it back up now alot of houses would go in 45 days

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From a business standpoint, your reasons are actually why they should restart the timer. If subs are waning (I have no access to official numbers and anything less is just anecdotal) then it would be in SE's interest to dangle the threat of loosing your house over our heads in order to keep as many people paying until 4.2 as possible. Regardless of of how we, the players, think or would like SE to act, they are first and foremost a business and have consistently shown that is how they run FF14.

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Originally Posted by Senn

Also idk what you're talking about here. You're kind of scaring me. :^(

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Housing provides functionality beyond just having a house. If all the houses are just dead space dedicated to a player that no longer plays that functionality dies. Housing items become vendor items, gardening crossbreed items disappear and with it the ability to craft things that require them. Changing your chocobo and training it becomes impossible, etc.

It's detrimental to the game to have housing locked out for the current player base.

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Originally Posted by DeaconMoore

It's detrimental to the game to have housing locked out for the current player base.

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You are right, but you dont point the real matter...
The real matter is not abandonned house, but the fact not everyone cant have house...

We want to have enough house for each player and FC. That's all.
How could SE doing this? not customer matter, their promise not ours.
But a solution is... inject less money in some project, and more in FFXIV? i mean... The cash shop + sub it should be many money no?

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Originally Posted by Aerlana

You are right, but you dont point the real matter...
The real matter is not abandonned house, but the fact not everyone cant have house...

We want to have enough house for each player and FC. That's all.
How could SE doing this? not customer matter, their promise not ours.
But a solution is... inject less money in some project, and more in FFXIV? i mean... The cash shop + sub it should be many money no?

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I agree enough housing for everyone would be ideal and I hope one day it happens. Can't say more money is the solution. As your signature quotes show their professed vision for housing and what was delivered are 2 different things. "Server limitations" seems to be their go to for just about everything wanted but not delivered. I dare say the issue is probably a poorly planned out server infrastructure that is in need of a major redesign and overhaul to give us the housing we should have.

Given what little we've heard thus far for housing in 4.2 it doesn't sound like they are ready for that kind of undertaking yet. So like it or not, we're stuck with what we got. As such we need the abandoned houses freed up for use by the active player base.

Yes it is time to reinstate the housing auto demolition. I hate to say it but if someones been without power or internet for more than a 2? months they aren't coming back anytime soon. If they really cared about their fake pixelated house/houses they have had ample time to contact a friend or associate who has power and internet to log in and preserve their homes at this point in time. Its truly a tragedy about what happened with all the hurricanes this year, but life continues for everyone else and now the house hoarders and flippers are just using this as a reason to not have to maintain their homes at this point please reinstate the auto demolition SE.

I don't believe the entire world of FFXIV housing demolition should stop over natural disasters in niche markets. This is literally holding up abandoned homes from being reclaimed for paying subscribed members all over the world to enjoy. If someone is a comfortable home with power in the US less important than someone in unfortunately circumstances and without power right now?

I would say if players are in dire straights right now and need extra time, that should be able to be requested with proof of address in an effected area but with no power, is that even an option?

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Originally Posted by Bahati

I would say if players are in dire straights right now and need extra time, that should be able to be requested with proof of address in an effected area but with no power, is that even an option?

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That's not an option because that takes a lot of work. SE is not going to increase the workload on their staff if it makes absolutely no money. Turning it on and off is easy.