Not enough tanks queueing for Level 50/60 Dungeons and Roulette

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Whether this is true or not from your standpoint, it brings up an interesting point when I think about how many players wish there were more interactions between players in instances as they tend to be more fun and less robotic. Unfortunately, mentalities such as needing some kind of incentive to even queue up in the first place makes it a self-fulfilling prophecy. When you have no reason to be there other than a clear and a reward and the majority of the community also feels the same way, any kind of movement towards player interaction remains stagnant. I suppose it's also a big reason why a 12-15 minute run opposed to a 16-20 minute run is the difference between good and bad.

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it's human nature. People need incentives to do things not in their immediate best interest. It's also why capitalism is the most successful system in the world.

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Originally Posted by Anarnee

I really don't think a 15 min wait is worth complaining about. I guess as a DPS main I'm use to 30+ min waits sooooo....

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I think it is. Would you put up with this in Battlefield, Street Fighter, etc.? Just because we're used to things being so bad doesn't mean that's an acceptable time for matchmaking. Once you're waiting 15 or more minutes to even play this game, you start to wonder about your lost time and how valuable it is.

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Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

I think it is. Would you put up with this in Battlefield, Street Fighter, etc.? Just because we're used to things being so bad doesn't mean that's an acceptable time for matchmaking. Once you're waiting 15 or more minutes to even play this game, you start to wonder about your lost time and how valuable it is.

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To be fair, you can't compare those games because none use the trinity system. The devs could absolutely incentive things better but there will always remain a large disparage between tanks, healers and DPS.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

To be fair, you can't compare those games because none use the trinity system. The devs could absolutely incentive things better but there will always remain a large disparage between tanks, healers and DPS.

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I actually can because the devs have not taken steps to alleviate the issue beyond changing the 24-man raids to 1 tank instead of 2 tanks after the first one and offering clusters for one roulette out of all of them. The game has badly needed a party size rework to accommodate the discrepancy between tanks and DPS players for a long time. It's not really a surprise to me that I have a 15-25 minute wait when I'm on DPS and an instant queue on tank.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

50/60 Roulettes is Jump Potion No Man's Land, Fresh 50's Playground and has those picked up a 60's job again but are oblivious to the changes, so they fumble through it.

If I should endure this run as a tank, this Roulette better cough up significanly improved rewards for me.

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Its the same stuff as it was before the potions. Sometimes you'll find good players and most of the time you'll find the standard DF players.

Returning Tank main, on reset day I hit expert, trials & pvp - then pvp to cap tomes. Why? I despise dungeon runs. After being used by my first FC as their personal leveling machine for 4 months straight back in ARR (no other tank in the FC); I got seriously sick of light party dungeons. There's nothing fun about them and to run them with randoms that want to pull ahead or single target the mob I'm not on in order to pull hate and complain about it? Yea, no thanks. Do the incentives make a difference to me? For leveling 60-70 the cracked clusters in leveling roulette was great, after that - who cares. I can only use so many of them any way. Most of them just end up in the MB for 100k+ gil DH or CRIT 6. Would giving me 100k+ gil per run help? Not really. Would it help others, likely but then there'd be a glut of gil; at least with the clusters it takes time to get rid of them. Could care less about the mounts. Because of the leveling issues DPS and Healers (to a lesser extent) face, spamming palace of the dead and now PVP are about the only viable options for DPS (5 minute wait times for PVP!) Is there anything that would get me into 50/60 dungeons? Lots of creation tomes, adventurer in need bonus creation tomes, creation tomes ohh and creation tomes. Gear upgrade tokens as well, but that would really circumvent savage gear upgrade tokens. Adventurer in need bonuses need to offer useful incentives and the most useful incentives are and always will be tomes. Why these aren't a part of adventurer in need bonus for EVERY roulette is beyond me, exp? Lvl 70, don't need it. Gil? Like it's that hard to make gil in this game.... GC seals? WTH do I need those for? I sit maxed out on seals, nothing to spend them on since the latest crafting mats are now bought using the outdated tomes. The only advice I can give you is, check with your FC tanks first, if that fails trade runs with your friends. You tank a run, then they tank a run. If that fails, PF or PVP until SE figures out how to make tanking something besides expert and leveling worthwhile.

When I tank i always worry a dps tell me " pull more " or a see dps pulling o.o So... I try to Tank in story roulet at least xD

Why should I queue with tank or healer jobs when most of the people I met in DF always complained whether I big pull or small pull as tank, and as healer whether I DPS or not DPS. Better not bother at all, waste of my time. Enjoy your 30+min queue time then DPS, unless you DPS learn to appreciate tank and healer better.

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Originally Posted by Ilan

Its the same stuff as it was before the potions. Sometimes you'll find good players and most of the time you'll find the standard DF players.

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'Sometimes' is not good enough. We ain't the carry brigade. Make it worth our time.

That roulette is not worth the frustration since they merged the 50 and 60 roulettes together. I would be perfectly happy to queue for the old level 60 roulette, but I can only stomach Stone Vigil hard and Keeper of the Lake so many times before I want to set fire to things. Or people. So as it stands, not happening. The reward does not befit the irritation of losing all my buttons and being put in dungeons I hate.

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

Cracked Crystals, right? Where do you guys even get those now?

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Cracked Clusters is usually given to the Adventure in Need for Roulettes so usually goes to tanks. Also you can get them from hunts, both A and S ranks give them if i recall

Considering that I only have DRK left to level as far as tanks goes and that it feels like utter crap at anything before 60, doing level 50/60 roulette is akin to playing Russian Roulette with 5/6 chambers filled. The chances of getting a level 50 Dungeon are much more likely since there is just so many of them to begin with and some are required for story progression (Keeper of the Lake, Snowcloak, etc) that I just generally try and avoid it on my DRK.
That and because I utterly despise tanking in general but that's another story.

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Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

Would you put up with this in Battlefield, Street Fighter, etc.?

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Apples to oranges. That being said, with how lobbies and turns work in Street Fighter, unless you're an online warrior that doesn't play to get better, you could end up waiting 15+ minutes, actually. It depends on how picky you are with connection and how good of players you want to face. Same goes for Tekken. If you're willing to fight any trash that comes your way, yeah, you won't run into those "long" waits.

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Originally Posted by Maero

Cracked Clusters is usually given to the Adventure in Need for Roulettes so usually goes to tanks.

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Only gets rewarded for leveling roulette. This should really be added to 50/60 as well.

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Originally Posted by Syfurion

That roulette is not worth the frustration since they merged the 50 and 60 roulettes together. I would be perfectly happy to queue for the old level 60 roulette, but I can only stomach Stone Vigil hard and Keeper of the Lake so many times before I want to set fire to things. Or people. So as it stands, not happening. The reward does not befit the irritation of losing all my buttons and being put in dungeons I hate.

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Yeah... I really wish you could keep most, if not all, of your skills and just lose potency, cap damage or something. I guess their worry is that players would kick players that aren't at 70 for running these dungeons and not having certain skills.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

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Roullettes to me are a function of their reward. Expert is for tomes (until cap) and levelling is for cluster. 50/60 or Main Scenario dont really give me any reason to do them beyond the experience (which is moot for my tanks since all are 70).

There is no sense in me doing roullette to be "that awesome tank" because quite frankly i can be an awesome tank to my FC, or someone within my data centre trying to clear content in PF and get that same feeling. Roullettes are designed to incentivise players to run older content. They are there so that players (mostly tanks) dont just run raids full time when they hit 70 and not do any old or levelling content for other players. The cracked cluster was added specifically so that needed roles would have an incentive yo queue...it just so happens the most desired job (most of the time) is tanks. 50/60 roullette is also designed to give a reward for running older content...and that reward is currently not good enough.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

A better solution is for the devs to make 50/60 appealing. Honestly, I dislike them more due to how many jobs suffer now when synced down in level. Astro, Dark Knight, Dragoon and Scholar are awful at 50, for instance. Now if I could farm craft/gather clusters, I wouldn't mind, but otherwise I don't want to touch 50/60 more than once a day.

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I don't think the lack of incentives is the only reason, the loss of abilities due to level sync also strips away any kind of desire to be there. It has been suggested in other topics to allow watered down versions of 50+/60+ abilities in synced content, and perhaps that could be looked into.

I am actually surprised that clusters are not offered as rewards already.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I don't think the lack of incentives is the only reason, the loss of abilities due to level sync also strips away any kind of desire to be there. It has been suggested in other topics to allow watered down versions of 50+/60+ abilities in synced content, and perhaps that could be looked into.

I am actually surprised that clusters are not offered as rewards already.

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Rather than hamfisting a way of getting abilities early for over-levelled people, the easiest solution is just to change the scaling of when you get the abilities in the first place. Lower levels are now really sparse in terms of abilities, and conversely there are abilities that you gain at 70 for some jobs that are so essential to it that when synced down the job seems like a shadow of what it should be.

Problem is incentive. I have 2 tank jobs on my main and 1 on this char leveled to 70. no DPS, no heals. Why in the world should I cue into leveling?

Verity: Capped. Have all the gear I need and my retainers. Verity has been sitting at 2k for over a month with nothing to spend it on.
Creation: 5. Count em 5. I can just do an Delta 1 normal in less time and get 10.
Mount points: See above.
Cluster: I have like 30 sitting in my inventory from hunts as it is and all my gear is melded/pentad already.

As a level 70 tank what possible reason do I have to cue for a leveling dungeon? I don't mind dungeons, but we still have work/life/raid/etc. The idea that we will just spend our limited time in game cueing for a roulette that offers veteran 70 tanks nothing is silly. Its fine for people actually leveling tanks. It does jack for lv 70 tanks. People wont do a thing in game for free when they can do something else and progress towards their goals instead.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

'Sometimes' is not good enough. We ain't the carry brigade. Make it worth our time.

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This will never happen and you should know that after around 3 years of playing (if you registered to the same time in the forum). Thats sadly not potion related.

They should add way more gil as bonus. I can't tell you what headaches it brings me to tank for these subpar players. Healers that don't dps, dps that can't figure out how to AoE, the list goes on. No no no no no, I condemn all of you non-tank players to a lifetime of suffering so long as I am not properly compensated.

Really no reason to run level 50/60 roulette when leveling beyond 60 to get to 70. I practically avoided it for all three of my tanks, leveling roulette is where the XP and clusters are at.