We can't

FFXIV 2.0 was essentially deemed a salvage project Square Enix never believed would become remotely as profitable as it did. A fairly large portion of XIV's profits are diverted to other things; it funded FFXV's development and will be doing the same for FFVII: Remake. Yoshida has little control over what Square Enix decides. It's easy enough for us to complain but the fault lies with Square not Yoshida.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

I'm just waiting for the next FF MMO or XI Mobile.

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What happened to that project?

About on topic, I agree with some if the messages here. Yoshida has no control over the money -or little as it is - to decide on what it should be invested. Also, ARR was made at the same time they were giving the final updates to 1.0 to try and relaunch the game, we don't know how the game is coded also. We also have to take into account the time they have to invest on reworking parts of the game while at the same time they are giving us fresh content every now and then.

I can be patient, the game has changed A LOT since it's relaunch.

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Originally Posted by Darker_Midnight

Ever considered that all the features being asked for would require an overhaul of the existing engine (or, God forbid, a new engine) to support these features? The number of bugs this could cause if not handled meticulously and carefully would far outweigh any benefits the minority population asking for these features at the moment give.

Nevermind the cost and manpower this would require when the budget sheet likely shows new content would - per man hour - likely be a better return on investment.

Either you're going to get these in a new FF MMO (FF18? :P), or have to find an MMO that supports these features.

Or you might get them in FFXIV, just... not on _your_ timetable.

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This has pretty much been the default response for anything customization-related by the community.

It's pretty sad.

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Originally Posted by Zhamkyong

What happened to that project?
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FFXI mobile is still happening supposedly, its moved up on Nexon's production lineup from being last on the list to I think 4th? I forget the exact article but hope is still there.

Hmm ... all I want to add to this thread is that this reminds me of overmodding in other games. "Mod it till it breaks". Do you really simply definitely do-or-die must have more glamour options, on risk of affecting the stability and stress on the whole game and its servers? While glamour would probably be not that big of a stress-factor by itself, little bits stress can add up and eventually cause the "breaking point" of overmodding. The last straw too, could come from anywhere ... tiniest of mods have broken my saves ...

At any rate, I'd rather play a smooth polished game than an overmodded heavily customized feature-explosion of a game. It's not like we don't have glamour options at all.

Edit: While I too would like to see more variety in events besides Yokai Watch (not my taste, won't participate in it at all), I keep in mind that I haven't even finished all the already in-game questlines yet. So there's no actual lack of content either.

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Originally Posted by Sho86

FFXI mobile is still happening supposedly, its moved up on Nexon's production lineup from being last on the list to I think 4th? I forget the exact article but hope is still there.

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I will have to look for it then to see if there are news then, thanks for the info!

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Originally Posted by Raqrie_Tohka

Hmm ... all I want to add to this thread is that this reminds me of overmodding in other games. "Mod it till it breaks". Do you really simply definitely do-or-die must have more glamour options, on risk of affecting the stability and stress on the whole game and its servers? While glamour would probably be not that big of a stress-factor by itself, little bits stress can add up and eventually cause the "breaking point" of overmodding. The last straw too, could come from anywhere ... tiniest of mods have broken my saves ...

At any rate, I'd rather play a smooth polished game than an overmodded heavily customized feature-explosion of a game. It's not like we don't have glamour options at all.

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I totally agree on that.

The problem is that certain classes have more variety of glamour than others in terms of their choice of appearance. A Paladin / Dark / Warrior can choose to wear tunic, light clothing if you prefer and give your character look like a "wanderer" instead of a full plated character, to give a small example. A caster has it difficult to go dressed in armor as if he were a battle mage prepared to cast spells, the pieces of choice are much smaller numbers. Without going too far, the tunic of the Creation marks is perfect except for one thing -in my opinion- and is that once again it abuses the wide sleeves and completely disables any glamor you have in the gloves -and the creation gloves become disabled- even if you have it beyond the elbow, not like that of WHM that is perfect for it.

It is an example, but for that reason has always been asked for more freedom to choose.

I still think after all these years they should have kept Tanaka. Name shame all you want but he did have MMO experience and at least tried to branch out. And could actually try things even if they weren't that successful.

I guess we should be fortunate we don't get excuses like "We can add a few new player face options but it'll cost you a raid tier".

Well. I guess if you can't deal with their business reasons you'd hate to hear the real reasons..

I'm sure it's a mixture of we can't because of the deadlines that are given to them. The ground level people work hard and they have very little time to do it sometimes. They also don't get their standard 8-5 job. So yes there's some guy who has 4 jobs on him and he's ready to tie a noose around his neck. As long as you're okay with that being the end result so you can color your gear 5 more times different ways and don't care about a life..more power to you. Someone posted, either here or reddit on how rough some of these people work, and the lack of credit they get is sad, Yoshi-P included who travels and works a tremendous amount.

Even our NA mods. We always complain but never thank them. Translators, the music..everything. It doesn't sound like it's much or related to your requests but a boost in morale, goes a very long way sometimes in production.

Others it's because it's not on their priority list. You may want 3 jobs, but the higher ups who pay for this to keep going do not see the benefit in some of our requests. You're paying them to make a world you enjoy playing in that also gives them money. You've never had a supervisor that had zero clue who to do the jobs they supervise? For the most part that's what it's like.

So you might have some guy in a suit and is presented with glamour solutions. They look at it and see no $$, instead lets work on new emotes and outfits to add the the mog station! Odins horse isn't selling..why? It can't fly! Lets work on that then people will buy..with their precious money. Dance puppets dance!!!

So yes, because you want it doesn't mean it's very useful. Now I know you'll pick the one example that counters that, there's exceptions to everything. Glamour logs might be one of them. At least to me, it's the one that's really important, doesn't mean it's useful to the higher ups. To them it may seem like.

I never finished Yo-kai watch, so I'm glad it's back. Just because you finished it like others doesn't mean it needs to go away. Like the lightning event, they gave it ample time for everyone to get. People got sick of it and now it's on the mog station. This will follow the same yellow brick road.

Or just accept the harsh truth like I have when I think of something for the game and get told no...and that's part of being an adult is accepting things you don't like, and running with it. You're not getting 3 jobs.

/Tomhanks_rufflehair

No go you lil scamp! Go save the world!

Much of the income generated from this game we know goes to other SE projects but that has more to do with the higher ups and investors i would think.
Someone mentioned 35 million even if that was actual fact that really does not cover much. Creating video games and all that is involved is far more then some of you seem to think.
I will however state that the servers should have been upgraded for Stormblood not simply moved like they seem to have done, the code is out dated yes but alas what can one do.

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Originally Posted by Zhamkyong

The problem is that certain classes have more variety of glamour than others in terms of their choice of appearance. A Paladin / Dark / Warrior can choose to wear tunic, light clothing if you prefer and give your character look like a "wanderer" instead of a full plated character, to give a small example. A caster has it difficult to go dressed in armor as if he were a battle mage prepared to cast spells, the pieces of choice are much smaller numbers. Without going too far, the tunic of the Creation marks is perfect except for one thing -in my opinion- and is that once again it abuses the wide sleeves and completely disables any glamor you have in the gloves -and the creation gloves become disabled- even if you have it beyond the elbow, not like that of WHM that is perfect for it.

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Class and level restrictions are stupid, and have been stupid from the very start. The one possible justification for them (mages should look like mages, tanks should look like tanks) was tossed aside ages ago thanks to the many skimpy glamour options tanks can wear. And, unless SE spaghetti-coded the system in ways I can't even begin to fathom, removing these restrictions should be the work of about a half hour. (Somewhere, in the code there should be a check that asks, "Can this glamour be shown for this class/level?" Remove that check, and voila.)

For most of the things the OP is suggesting, though, there's a lot of dev effort involved. Yoshi P says "I can't" not because they actually can't, but because it's a lot quicker and easier to understand than, "We could, but currently we don't consider it to be worth the investment of man hours when balanced against the revenue lost for not having this feature."

In the case of three jobs, specifically, the Dev team pretty nearly killed themselves to get three jobs into Heavensward - enough that they needed to take a break afterwards such that it delayed patch 3.1 several weeks - and even with that, Machinist was clearly rushed, being very nearly a BRD clone and missing several features SE had suggested it would have (like several interchangeable attachments, instead of just Guass Barrel).

Here is a wonderful idea for all those crying about the fact we can't have every single system the second you demand it, either do what the rest of us do and wait for them to work out every little bug needed so we actually get a functional version of these things you want (because let's face it, all you'll do is cry if there is anything wrong) OR, if you really really do get this salty over them not treating you like their overlord and doing every single thing you say as soon as you say it, then kindly GTFO to a different MMO, or go try making your own, then maybe you'll gain some form of understanding as to why we can't have these things right away due to the game engine/manpower/cost issues they currently have.

I've said my part in this matter, Have a good day and enjoy playing the game we've all been so lucky to have o/

One of the biggest questions I have is, has OP watched NoClip's documentary about 1.0 -> 2.0?

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Originally Posted by Singularity

Long story short, because we don't know how the game works internally, the community that asks for these things often vastly underestimates how much work they are asking for. Some of these things entail fundamental and far-reaching changes to the game, which would require a huge amount of testing and optimisation to maintain the quality to which we have grown accustomed, and all this while continuing to deliver new content at the same pace. It's not like the development team finished 4.1 a month after Stormblood released and is now just twiddling their thumbs and loafing around before they start on 4.2.

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lol blunt truth and realistic expectations right here. This dev team is ridiculously hard-working and awesome. If any other developer was going it better, we'd be playing their game instead. Patch 4.1 is gonna be so much fun \o/

Look at how long it took WoW to get the glamour system they have. It took many years. Them saying "we can't" does not mean "we will not". It takes time to code, test, and implement. They also have deadlines on other projects and a budget. That is all controlled by SE itself. Not trying to be a white knight as I think it sucks too, but this all takes time.

At least they say they can't
What do other mmo devs say? Or do they even bother saying anything?

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

I still think after all these years they should have kept Tanaka. Name shame all you want but he did have MMO experience and at least tried to branch out. And could actually try things even if they weren't that successful.

I guess we should be fortunate we don't get excuses like "We can add a few new player face options but it'll cost you a raid tier".

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All Tanaka tried to do was copy FF11, which in turn copied much of its structure from earlier RPGs. Pretending that XIV has been objectively worse under Yoshida is laughable, especially when it comes to infrastructure.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

I still think after all these years they should have kept Tanaka. Name shame all you want but he did have MMO experience and at least tried to branch out. And could actually try things even if they weren't that successful.

I guess we should be fortunate we don't get excuses like "We can add a few new player face options but it'll cost you a raid tier".

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MMO experience which oversaw a very expensive flop

All I get out of this, is that we need to kill the cash cow (XIV) and then higher ups have no choice but to delay or cancel games. SE's quality on most of their projects has diminished anyways. Only a matter of time before SE becomes the next Konami.

Man, I would hate to be an MMO developer. No matter how well you do, you always have people crying for more and acting like you've done nothing.

maybe we can't get those things but I don't see any mmo....no, ANY game currently in the market that gets the amount lf content FF XIV get every 3 month. You have to look at everything on the bigger picture in order for us to get these fast massive content updates to keep every expansion alive devs have to work their ass off in order to acomodate to the demand on top of they work their way through some QoL and and deliver mostly on time. It's actuallu quite impressive, if you want all that + the amount of content we get then they will probably need more time. could they do it? sure they can but with the tight schedule they have, at what cost?

now that being said as great as they are you are right on somethings. while they do an amazing job they are chipping away more content every expansion (given we don't know half their plan yet so not to sound ungrateful) we didn't got 3 jobs this time but we got a massive overhaul to all the classes to balance the game out and also massive pvp changes. the one thing I agree is that supposedly they have double the budget they had for heavesward would be great if they hired more man power to acomodate their schudele and give them, not more time to add more thing, but more time to polish what they deliver and not have a half assed or abandoned conetnt like chocobo racing and vermilion

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Originally Posted by Tigerlilley

I think at this point it is very clearly the majority of the player base asking for a glam log and multiple glam slots on an item. And theyve been asking for years.

Things take time and effort, true. But when there is a clear and overwhelming need in the community united for one thing.. Well yea, hearing "maybe we'll make it so you can 'save one glam' is pretty disheartening.

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Agreed. And all the content in the world won't change the fact that if I can't store any more armors, then I have very little reason to bother running that content. And then what's the point of continuing to sub...?

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

And I'm not entirely sure why people seem so convinced that Yoshi-P himself

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Poster boy who puts himself at the front of everything in this game. You chose to be at the front you get to see the good and the bad. How many other MMO's have you played where you could pick dev team member out of the line? How many other MMO's have you played where anniversary event is a plug for dev team.

Is it his fault, no. Does he deserve the criticism, yes. He has chosen by personal or by taking company pay checks to be the face. Game devs don't need to be a focal point of the community.

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Originally Posted by Singularity

Long story short, because we don't know how the game works internally, the community that asks for these things often vastly underestimates how much work they are asking for. Some of these things entail fundamental and far-reaching changes to the game, which would require a huge amount of testing and optimisation to maintain the quality to which we have grown accustomed, and all this while continuing to deliver new content at the same pace. It's not like the development team finished 4.1 a month after Stormblood released and is now just twiddling their thumbs and loafing around before they start on 4.2.

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Long story short other game MMO's seem to manage certain design functions. No one has asked for stuff that isn't mostly basic feature in other games. Other games that do not have a monthly sub plus a cash shop. If someone asks for something not running in another MMO tell them SE is not an innovator and to be realistic.

While we haven't seen 4.1 yet so can't judge yet a lot of 3.1 should have been 3.0 expansion pack. Not finishing a bunch of stuff and putting it into X.1 doesn't make the cycle look that great. If you step back and look at it from other MMO expansions. They still release content faster but if you look at what you get with 4.0 and then down the road it doesn't look nearly as good in comparison.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

Poster boy who puts himself at the front of everything in this game. You chose to be at the front you get to see the good and the bad. How many other MMO's have you played where you could pick dev team member out of the line? How many other MMO's have you played where anniversary event is a plug for dev team.

Is it his fault, no. Does he deserve the criticism, yes. He has chosen by personal or by taking company pay checks to be the face. Game devs don't need to be a focal point of the community.

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World of Warcraft.

You should have seen the backlash and constant rude criticism that Ghostcrawler got before he left.

I haven't paid attention to WoW in forever but I can guarantee they have some other scapegoat that people won't stop complaining about now as well.

I'm surprised that they chose to take an engine that was developed for a single player game with some MMO facets and bolt on some third party tools and it worked. Game engines are the very beating heart of the whole operation.

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Originally Posted by Scarby

Here is a wonderful idea for all those crying about the fact we can't have every single system the second you demand it

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We've been demanding several of these things for 3 years.

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Originally Posted by Draxxion

Look at how long it took WoW to get the glamour system they have. It took many years. Them saying "we can't" does not mean "we will not". It takes time to code, test, and implement. They also have deadlines on other projects and a budget. That is all controlled by SE itself. Not trying to be a white knight as I think it sucks too, but this all takes time.

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It took many years because WoW was made many years ago and those kinds of systems didn't become popular until relatively recently (say within the past 3-4 years). WoW and FFXIV were made in completely different MMO markets. It is entirely on SE to not have recognized popular features in MMOs. We shouldn't have to wait 7+ years for a modern MMO to have what others had years ago.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

World of Warcraft.

You should have seen the backlash and constant rude criticism that Ghostcrawler got before he left.

I haven't paid attention to WoW in forever but I can guarantee they have some other scapegoat that people won't stop complaining about now as well.

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Was he the blue crab that nerfed anything good in pvp?

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

Long story short other game MMO's seem to manage certain design functions. No one has asked for stuff that isn't mostly basic feature in other games. Other games that do not have a monthly sub plus a cash shop. If someone asks for something not running in another MMO tell them SE is not an innovator and to be realistic.

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How many of those MMOs had those features written into them from the start? It's a lot easier to change the foundations before you've built the house.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

All Tanaka tried to do was copy FF11, which in turn copied much of its structure from earlier RPGs. Pretending that XIV has been objectively worse under Yoshida is laughable, especially when it comes to infrastructure.

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Could have at least been a part of it to offer advice. Doesn't this forum like to circlejerk around XIV having new content and the first thing people pine for is content that Tanaka tried in XI? Which ultimately fell on it's face?

Take stuff like Diadem and the Treasure Hunt junk. It's either pretty on paper but garbage in execution or dead on arrival. Just doesn't last.

Problem with this game is everything is mostly instance based and most of that is wailing on sandbag enemies. The world itself is pretty dead and lifeless.

And of course we have people who apparently are super interested in more important things like glamour, butt sliders, customizations options to fulfill their vanity on their avatar. Real gamechangers to be sure.

Yes, I'm pretty tired of it - especially in regards to character customisation. They have no issue adding new hairstyles with each new patch so I'm not sure why they can't add new make up options for women and facial hair options for men.

I'm also getting annoyed by the lack of unique, masculine glamour options for male characters both in-game and on the Mog Station.

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Originally Posted by Naunet

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I wish I had the expectation of MMO developers heeding every beck and call and demand I had to say about the game.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

False. 1.0 used Crystal Tools, the same engine SE used for FFXIII and it's sequels (and which was not up to the task of rendering a MMO world). ARR uses a custom made engine based on Luminous Engine, the engine that FFXV runs under, with some components of other off-the-shelf engines made by other companies (I believe they use features of Speedtrees and Havoc for various environment components as well.) The only things carried from 1.0 are gameplay functions necessary to support 1.0 character data being transferred in, like aspects of the Armoury System.

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Wait, what? I thought the Luminous Engine was only specific to FFXV...

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

All I get out of this, is that we need to kill the cash cow (XIV) and then higher ups have no choice but to delay or cancel games. SE's quality on most of their projects has diminished anyways. Only a matter of time before SE becomes the next Konami.

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Hmm, I would have agreed 5 years ago but SE has made a huge turn around in the past two years. And why would they kill the cash chop when that is what pays for more developments?

We can't
We can't
We can't stop complaining apparently

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Originally Posted by Naunet

We shouldn't have to wait 7+ years for a modern MMO to have what others had years ago.

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The game is still FF first, mmo later. Even FF15 was revamped for modern rpg -this year-.
Non-rpg mmo were never the market, those components people keep comparing can burn in hell.

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Originally Posted by Endeleon

And why would they kill the cash chop when that is what pays for more developments?

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Cuz its not a free to play.

Personaly my only grip with the cash feature is the extra retainer. FF XIV is the only pay 2 play with a monthly sub that have such a feature. Even most free to play give you infinite auction house room when you sub and if you take SWtoR as an exemple you get your max crew member by subing. And the game is ran by EA the most greedy company that I can think of.

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Originally Posted by Teraluna

We can't
We can't
We can't stop complaining apparently

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People complain because they care.
Complaining is better then being quiet and letting the game grow stagnate.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

People complain because they care.
Complaining is better then being quiet and letting the game grow stagnate.

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There are many ways to complain, the OPs list is a bad way.

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Originally Posted by 18GerPD8fY4iTbNpC9hHNXNHyrDMampPLA

The game is still FF first, mmo later. Even FF15 was revamped for modern rpg -this year-.
Non-rpg mmo were never the market, those components people keep comparing can burn in hell.

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That is one bizarre excuse.

XIV is an MMO and its competition is other MMOs. SE has been in the MMO business since 2002 and so they should have a pretty good feel of the market.

Honestly the fact that ARR was made off the broken husk of 1.0 is really all you need to know in regards to why they're constantly shooting down suggestions. 1.0 was for lack of a better phrase, strung together with bits of gum and string, and barely functional by most MMO standards. The coding was shit, the methodologies absolutely nonsensical if you care to ask someone versed in programming, and overall it showed that SE really had no idea what they were doing in spite of having a previous MMO under their belt to learn from. People are not kidding when they say that in order to fix all these issues they would literally have to create an entirely new engine and start from scratch, and frankly it might very well eventually come to that as more and more limitations are pushed against with each new expansion. Yet I'd be amazed if it was ever implemented before the eleventh hour, as Japanese businesses are /not/ known for overhauls when what is currently being used has /some/ functionality. And I don't think it's necessarily fair to lambaste Yoshi P for that either, as ultimately the ones who hold the funding for a new engine are the board of directors at SE itself.

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Originally Posted by FallenArisen0990

All I get out of this, is that we need to kill the cash cow (XIV) and then higher ups have no choice but to delay or cancel games. SE's quality on most of their projects has diminished anyways. Only a matter of time before SE becomes the next Konami.

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Just no. At least SE still has people that actually care about the games. Konami just sells out and makes pachinko machines using the names to draw people in. Capcom is closer to becoming the next Konami, as seeing how they handled Mega Man and Marvel VS Capcom Infinity; Street Fighter V isn't doing too hot, either. It almost seems like Monster Hunter World is a last ditch effort to keep die-hard fans (outside Japan- Monster Hunter is stupidly popular in Japan).

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

Poster boy who puts himself at the front of everything in this game. You chose to be at the front you get to see the good and the bad. How many other MMO's have you played where you could pick dev team member out of the line? How many other MMO's have you played where anniversary event is a plug for dev team.

Is it his fault, no. Does he deserve the criticism, yes. He has chosen by personal or by taking company pay checks to be the face. Game devs don't need to be a focal point of the community.

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More like Yoshida has been recognized as the person who gambled and pulled of something that was nothing short of a last-ditch-miracle. Not anyone else. Also, personally, it's kind of cool that the team of FFXIV is able to say thank you more personally in The Rising events. Most events I find to be borderline tacky, but still enjoyable. I actually look forward to The Rising every year. It's one of the few times we get to see what goes through the team's minds with this game.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

Long story short other game MMO's seem to manage certain design functions. No one has asked for stuff that isn't mostly basic feature in other games. Other games that do not have a monthly sub plus a cash shop. If someone asks for something not running in another MMO tell them SE is not an innovator and to be realistic.

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The thing is, this is all fluff. Glamour logs, more character customization, more-than-two-jobs, dying multiple segments on a gear. Most of this stuff isn't found in any one game. I can name games with one or two of these vanity or fluff features, but none with all of them. Maybe WoW (I don't know what WoW does or does not have)?

Most MMOs add only one new job per expansion, if that. Most MMOs don't even add new races for years, if ever. Most MMOs only dye the entire piece of clothing, usually just the shade over the entire piece. Most MMOs don't have a separate clothing/glamour section, or if they do, they use a cash-shop-only section; most of these MMOs, glamour is largely locked behind the cash shop, too. Most MMOs don't have a PTR. Most MMOs don't have infinite auction house slots - some just have far larger caps than others.

Lastly, most MMOs add these features because the game was built around having these features in at start, or will be able to implement later. I don't thing FFXIV ever got that chance by the time Yoshida arrived. At launch for 1.0, the game probably wasn't designed for any of these features. I like fluff as much as the next person, but I also like games with content more. WoW pushes out stuff every three months, too, so it looks, but I noticed they don't push story out every three months like FFXIV does. *Reading WoW patch list and what they contain.* This seems to be every 6 months.

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Originally Posted by Skivvy

That is one bizarre excuse.

XIV is an MMO and its competition is other MMOs. SE has been in the MMO business since 2002 and so they should have a pretty good feel of the market.

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*Considers.* So tell me, how many MMOs, that are modern, survive the genre with a subscription based model? The truth is, most MMOs don't know how to survive their own market. SE thought they had a good feel of the market- that's how we wound up with FFXIV 1.0. We know how that turned out.


I'm not white knighting SE. I'm just entirely convinced quite a few vocal posters are very delusional (and also not saying the people I've quoted are :p).