A difference of playstyles

I've ran this dungeon a ton so far as a tank. Not once in all my runs has a dps died, during boss fights or during large packs. There is not a single place in this dungeon where you, as a ranged caster, could not be far enough away to avoid the AoE's. Even if both gorillas aimed their cannons at you at the exact same time you should be able to live at your ilvl. For that part it sounds like you were bad, just accept that.

I would've kicked you too. Mind you, I would've spoke to you first, but chances are you'd have been kicked. To die twice in quick succession as someone who shouldn't even be the focus of damage, to waste all that time running back. Experts are kind of the "end-game" for casual players since a lot won't touch trials or savage. If you don't have a first time bonus, you should know how to do the dungeon and not cause a waste of time and effort for others.

You refused to avoid AoE, died twice, refused to be resurrected and let the group kill the mobs without you twice while you are running from the ress spot to the group. I do not know what you have told the group, but I am going to assume based on what you have shared with us, that they probably thought you were trolling or something. It does not matter how you were grouped with those players, actions like that can still get you kicked.

I think everything would have been resolved if you talked with the group after your first wipe.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Areic

I've ran this dungeon a ton so far as a tank. Not once in all my runs has a dps died, during boss fights or during large packs. There is not a single place in this dungeon where you, as a ranged caster, could not be far enough away to avoid the AoE's. Even if both gorillas aimed their cannons at you at the exact same time you should be able to live at your ilvl. For that part it sounds like you were bad, just accept that.

---

I died a couple times on Dragoon, but I was watching a show on my second screen at the same time. Even as melee you pretty much have to try to die here, admittedly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jybril

1. You not accepting Healers Res is wasting their MP. - (Even worse if your heal as a SCH. :/)

---

The healer wasted his MP himself for casting res after the boss died

boss is dead + player still dead = player should just use return

Maybe he was kicked because he died twice, but I hope it was not because he used Return after the boss.
Maybe the devs should add the stats penalty back to Weakness, if removing it will only result in impatient tanks ^^

Sounds like you made a lot of mistakes and they just didn't want to deal with it.

It's unfortunate they took an easy mode dungeon that seriously, but if the majority wanted you gone there's not much you can do sadly regardless of reason.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ageofwar

I died due to getting hit by the front cannon while trying to avoid lock on (I don't like running around like an idiot for this attack) after the the group kills the boss the healer raises me which I cancel and return back to the beginning.

---

From one RDM to another: that dodge is very easy to cheese for us because the AoE markers move so slowly; I use Corps-a-Corps to get close to him right when the markers are gonna show up (yes, even if I'm not going in for the melee combo), then Displacement to either of the sides where there's either no one else or less people, the time between the lock-on moving from the middle to your position should be enough to get one spell off then dualcast your next spell while moving to the side.

sounds more like to me u got some speed running jerks , who couldnt be bothered to wait 2 min :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Felis

The 2nd death sound like it happened directly behind the boss room. So Return should be still faster than waiting until the healer have time for a raise.

---

He said the tank pulled 5 packs, which I'm going to assume is every single monster from the end of the first boss to the beginning of the second boss (near the cannon. Using a LB here is fine). Accepting the Raise is faster than Returning.

To those still here:

1) OP made mistakes and died.
2) OP was removed from group.

Why this is a thread is beyond me. ReQ, dont be a traffic cone, things'll be fine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ageofwar

2 deaths I would not consider a lot

---

Before 2nd boss in a dungeon? Yeah...you might want to reconsider that.

This is more about people saying taking raises are better than respawning in most scenarios: Click Here

The time it takes to run back is 15-20 seconds tops in pretty much every dungeon.

If the healer raises you at the end of a pull or just as a boss is about to die(less than 5%) that's their problem not yours.

Weakness and Brink are a LOT more punishing now. The only time I personally throw out raises is if we're in the middle of the boss fight or if its the tank mid-pull. I've saved runs before with the tank dying in those. But dps? Nah just respawn in most cases. You doing less damage and draining my mp for it is a lot less appealing than you being absent for a whole 10-15 seconds.

Your deaths show you were bad. You got kicked for being bad.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SomeRandomHuman

The time it takes to run back is 15-20 seconds tops in pretty much every dungeon.

---

I don't think that was the case for the OP though since after the boss they have the use of the shortcut. Unless the OP wasn't being truthful, all running back entails is is just an extra loading screen.

No, I'm pretty sure the reason why OP was kicked was because he was dead for most of the first boss fight, and then he wastes the LB and proceeds to not wait for a rez again which the group could also take it as the OP intentionally wasting resources and trying to impede the group. Honestly, the run from the first boss to the end of that long pull is pretty damn far and with it on top of everything else I would honestly consider kicking you too, though that would probably be after having a dialogue and trying to figure out what you're doing.

@OP: You are gear-synched in Ala Mhigo at your item level, which means there's really no excuse for you to have problems like this in that dungeon. You didn't need to accept the first revive after the boss, it's the second one that put you in hot water since it pretty much puts you out of that fight which you were late to anyway. Not accepting a rez when you're practically right before the second boss can be considered purposely hindering the group's progress and it is a kickable offense.

Kicking for difference in playstyle is actually a confirmed valid reason to kick according to Square Enix GMs.

That aside, I think they were just sick of having a DPS that continuesly dies. Stepping out of AoE's should be your number one priority regardless of the DPS loss you think you may endure. You LB when you're safe, not when you may be hit.

Personally, at the end of a boss fight, I expect people to return instead of wait for a raise. You get a quick teleport and no weakness debuff. (Although I also think the weakness debuff should only be applied if raised during combat.) In-between bosses, however, people should be raised and just eat the debuff.

man I know I'm still new blood and all that but OUCH. The replies here are ruthless. D: The only thing I wil say in reply to the story is while it may have been mean to kick you, I honestly think - unless you did- should've spoken in that event. The silence is what I think killed you sadly :c. I know I know.. people HATE talking in dungeons I noticed in my short time in this game. I know it's a pain.. people wanna be like my name and go fast like it's 1992 with tails following. But I always mention something if I mess up cause I want people in my group to know I wasn't trying to die or whatever. Half the time I'm begging them not to be mad. Yes begging. Most people even after the most craziest wipe when you throw my bads and sorries at them they shrug it off and move on. Least with me anyway... :O

TIL that getting hit by AoE while casting LB equals not wanting to dodge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

I do. All the time. And live to DPS more.
I mean, what are you doing, LBing while stacked on the tank? The only time I'd ever flat out die in the middle of a caster Lb of all things is in ex boss fights.

---

The pull was everything between first and the second boss with a couple of guys with random target AoEs and cannons firing at random; you'll get targeted regardless of where you stand. I haven't tried to LB all of that, but I'd guess it gets pretty tight.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LalaRu

If I read your OP correctly, you were standing in the aoe's because you find annoying dodge them, then complaining you got kicked for this.

---

You did not. He died to what I think is the line AoE after after dodging the targeted AoE and second time he died to random AoE during LB animation lock.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Laerune

You refused to avoid AoE

---

He didn't refuse to avoid anything. First he got hit by another after dodging the first one and second time was during LB lock.

To answer the heart of your question (if there was one):

Yes, you can be kicked for literally any reason and there's close to nothing that you can do about it. I wouldn't report anyone for doing anything wrong unless they verbally harassed you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ageofwar

2 deaths I would not consider a lot and try avoiding 5 packs worth of AOE's while ani locked in LB I would love to see someone try that.

the other thing is this was a duty roulette not a party finder party.

I just consider the vote dismiss rude wthout even saying a thing in chat

---

2 deaths in a random dungeon roulette is an exceptional amount. Hell even one death is too many (but understandable under rare circumstances).

Part of a DPS's role is to understand 'when' to LB because you get locked.

You chose to do an LB at the wrong time. It happens. I've done it myself and keeled over. I laugh with the party and shrug it off. I've yet to get booted once in four years of playing this game. Probably because I try to get along with the group of people I'm playing with.

The fact is this: If the developers of the game state they can boot people, as was indicated in an interview that was linked in this thread, you pretty much have little to argue for. Which sometimes, yeah, it sucks to get booted because of their viewpoint. But you really didn't help yourself by not talking to the group. Releasing also probably peeved off the group enough that the Healer initiated the vote kick.

Don't piss off a healer. They get ornery. Trust me. I have my wife as my healer on 90% of the time and she lets me have it if she doesn't like something I'm doing. >.>

The group could randomly decide as you're not doing #1 damage for that job in the world (for maximum efficiency in the run), you should be kicked from the group. Playstyle difference. Acceptable reason to kick as far as GMs are concerned.

Now, for the 2 deaths:
1) Just say "Sorry, my bad". Had I been in the group, my response would have been "that's OK"
2) Did the AoE come after the LB animation lock had been started? If so, then it sucks, but nothing much you could have done (had I been healer, I may have tried to rescue you out of that). Just explain AoE came after animation lock started, and no problem as far as I'm concerned.

Unfortunately, as someone else has said, I think your lack of communication is what busted you here. I continually say that communication is key (heck, I'm usually the first to own up to my mistakes), and this just helps solidify it. Had you communicated with us about it, from my perspective, the worst that would have happened to you is you'd have lost my commendation, which let's be honest, isn't exactly a big deal. But if you don't communicate, the group will, for better or for worse, assume you were trolling or otherwise impeding the run. That will be why you got kicked most likely.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KrenianKandos

Don't piss off a healer. They get ornery. Trust me. I have my wife as my healer on 90% of the time and she lets me have it if she doesn't like something I'm doing. >.>

---

My in-game wife is a healer. You speak the truth. I kept big pulling in Bardam's Mettle because she could cope with it fine and nobody died (we had a BLM in the group during the farm). One pull she just decides she's had enough and runs away from the pack leaving me to die. My BLM friend was "Stop appeasing the black mage and start appeasing your wife"

Take the whole "difference in playstyles" thing with a grain of salt. It is so incredibly vague, that what it basically does is give the GMs the freedom to take action when they feel it is warranted, rather than be strictly bound to some loophole-rich set of rules. If a GM thinks your complaint is worthwhile, they'll take action; another GM might decide differently. So, if you feel as though you've been treated unfairly, don't be afraid to report. "Difference in playstyles" basically boils down to "GM's fiat".

However, in this case, I highly doubt any GM would take action. By the looks of it, you were having a pretty derp-tastic run, and quite possibly giving the others in the party the impression that you were trolling. While I probably wouldn't have kicked you, I'm a lot more patient than most.

Sometimes I have to remind people in this forum who solo queue all the time, you can't just assume everybody else is solo. You could be the only solo person in an FC-party of three in that dungeon. That's not to say if you sneeze incorrectly you could be at-risk to be kicked. But you have to realize voting power isn't in your favor.

Of course every now and then some jockey shows up who thinks it's okay to use the chat as their way to handle turrets syndrome.

So the best advice, play good, get along, make things work.