Players Excluding SMN for Pf raid Groups.... Shame on you (ATTN Devs)

I mean, it's our right as players to ban whatever class we want for whatever reason. If you dislike it you can make your own PF easily enough.

Even if there is a popular misconception about their damage, they're hard to play correctly, and I see way more bad than good ones personally. On top of that, why would I bring one over RDM/BLM? BLM has insane dps numbers right now, whereas RDM does equal if not more dps to smn while bringing a raid wide dps boost and the utility of very easy resurrects+healing themselves if the raid is having a hard time, on top of it's rotation being ungodly forgiving if you mess up, whereas if you mess up with SMN....well shit.

It's something SE needs to look at, both in terms of their numbers compared to their caster brothers and their utility compared to the overloaded red mage

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Originally Posted by Areic

I mean, it's our right as players to ban whatever class we want for whatever reason. If you dislike it you can make your own PF easily enough
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Even if there is a popular misconception about their damage, they're hard to play correctly, and I see way more bad than good ones personally. On top of that, why would I bring one over RDM/BLM? BLM has insane dps numbers right now, whereas RDM does equal if not more dps to smn while bringing a raid wide dps boost and the utility of very easy resurrects+healing themselves if the raid is having a hard time, on top of it's rotation being ungodly forgiving if you mess up, whereas if you mess up with SMN....well shit.

It's something SE needs to look at, both in terms of their numbers compared to their caster brothers and their utility compared to the overloaded red mage

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Honestly I'd trust a SMN over a BLM. When it comes to PuGs, you probably can't even afford deaths to meet the enrage timer, so the punishment is a bit moot. BLM however has INSANE dps loss just from being forced to move, and I'm not sure how much I can trust my average random to know the fight well enough to minimize movement.

I've seen this a few times with machinist as well, bard only.

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Originally Posted by UnstablePersonality

I've seen this a few times with machinist as well, bard only.

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Yea unfortunately mch is good but BRD is just better and mch has like no utility besides role abilities so imo they should be the insane dps of the physical range classes joining the ranks of SAMs and BLMs (other none utility dps) because it doesn't bring anything and has the same dps as a BRD if not less than....SE just arnt effective enough with mch changes

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Originally Posted by AbelArchaniEA

4.1 is what 4-6 weeks away?
That's not soon enough

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The devs aren't machines, and they don't have magic time manipulation powers. They have addressed your concerns, they are actively working on it, so unless you want massively half assed changes you will wait the ~6 week development time that it takes for them to rework the job.

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Originally Posted by Aomine1992

Yea unfortunately mch is good but BRD is just better and mch has like no utility besides role abilities so imo they should be the insane dps of the physical range classes joining the ranks of SAMs and BLMs (other none utility dps) because it doesn't bring anything and has the same dps as a BRD if not less than....SE just arnt effective enough with mch changes

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no offense, but ignoring dismantle (which some prefer over trobadour) and hypercharge is not a good thing to do

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Originally Posted by Remedi

no offense, but ignoring dismantle (which some prefer over trobadour) and hypercharge is not a good thing to do

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Dismantle is not that great and can be replaced by reprisal easily, and hypercharge is replaced by trick attack so I stand by my original statement and no I don't over look those skills but they arnt that inclusive because other classes can do it better and still dps better

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Originally Posted by Aomine1992

Dismantle is not that great and can be replaced by reprisal easily, and hypercharge is replaced by trick attack so I stand by my original statement and no I don't over look those skills but they arnt that inclusive because other classes can do it better and still dps better

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You don't replace Dismantle with Reprisal, you use both. Hypercharge is also not replaced with Trick Attack because NINs don't compete with MCH for party slot. If anything, it's beneficial to have have both because of Trick Attack+Wildfire synergy.

Players excluded WARs in the early 2.0 stage.
Players excluded us PLDs when Gordias was a thing.

Every jobs gets their turn.

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Originally Posted by Areic

I mean, it's our right as players to ban whatever class we want for whatever reason. If you dislike it you can make your own PF easily enough.

Even if there is a popular misconception about their damage, they're hard to play correctly, and I see way more bad than good ones personally. On top of that, why would I bring one over RDM/BLM? BLM has insane dps numbers right now, whereas RDM does equal if not more dps to smn while bringing a raid wide dps boost and the utility of very easy resurrects+healing themselves if the raid is having a hard time, on top of it's rotation being ungodly forgiving if you mess up, whereas if you mess up with SMN....well shit.

It's something SE needs to look at, both in terms of their numbers compared to their caster brothers and their utility compared to the overloaded red mage

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I like those groups who want RDM over SMN/BLM/NIN and are waiting to fill that last slot forever.

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Originally Posted by Zeonsilt

Around October, so it's 6-8 weeks away.
Sadly.

The only solution i see here is to reroll into RDM until October.

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wrong actually the 4.1 patch will hit sometime in septmber if it following the same pattern since launch

I'm PS4 peasant, and here just wondering if the true problem is SMN being bad (bc of hypothetical bad dps), or parsers being inaccurate (showing wrong dps total bc trird party tool).

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Originally Posted by Melondra

wrong actually the 4.1 patch will hit sometime in septmber if it following the same pattern since launch

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I'm not so sure, the first LL that will talk about 4.1 will be on the 2nd of september so I suppose early october is a fair date for 4.1

edit: also consider that it is the first LL that will show 4.1 meaning that a second will follow and they don't usually put 2 LL in the same month

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Originally Posted by ErryK

I would love to have some of what you're smoking because last I remember, PF in 2.x always had a slot for 1 WHM and 1 SCH.

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Well, considering 2.x only had whm and sch as healers, I would hope so. I'm just going to assume you mean 3.x since AST came out in Heavensward. You didn't want to double on same healers in 2.x because it gave you a group stat penalty so having a sch and whm was the thing to do. you got MND boost for whm and piety for sch iirc. Might be the other way around, I forget.

Edit: also, it made the LB build up super slow if you had double of one class at one point in 2.x. thankfully they removed that.

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Originally Posted by Burmecia

I'm PS4 peasant, and here just wondering if the true problem is SMN being bad (bc of hypothetical bad dps), or parsers being inaccurate (showing wrong dps total bc trird party tool).

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Neither. Parsers have SMN at an underwhelming-but-decent place as far as DPS goes, and they're far more mobile than BLMs so they may have a slight advantage over BLMs in that regards.

The problem is the idiots who worship the meta as the end-all go-to for all content in the game. They're the type of people who will fawn over you when your class is meta, but as soon as it's not, will drop you like an old forgotton toy.

I'm honestly getting super sick and tired of reading comments from people who keep telling others, "just go play RDM."

That is NOT a solution to the SMN issue, so just stop.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

Recent poll regarding DPS job's difficulty.
Sure, it's not like playing a game of Starcraft against a korean world champion. But within the context of FFXIV itself, it's still the hardest job to play. And within MMORPGs, FFXIV is not an easy one. It's not the hardest, but comparing it to a "low-tier" character in any other game is silly.

But I guess the opinion of someone with ACN at Lv50 is more relevant than the one of more than 2000 people. Right, Sir Getoffyourhighhorse? Right.

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I know how the job operates, I don't have to physically touch a job to understand the highs and lows. My static raid has a Summoner, two close friends who I've been playing with since Beta play Summoner. I read the forums, I know your rotation, etc. I stand by my statement that this game, regardless of role or job, isn't difficult enough to warrant the cries that are presented here. You can pretend that your job is beyond any comparability to make yourself feel unique, but it doesn't make it true. I saw the Reddit thread when it first came out. Of course Summoner will be the highest, it's the buzzword for FFXIV's lack of balance. Once again, I think it's the most difficult job in the game, but the outcry is far from palatable.

And to clarify what I was saying about a low tier hero/fighter/class in any competitive pvp/pve game: players will always over exaggerate the ratio between difficulty and viability when the latter is much lower. It's to compensate their effectiveness.