[Dev Team Request] raise the difficulty of 24-man raids to Savage mode.

I wouldn't mind a harder version of the 24 man in addition to a regular mode, though I'd imagine it'd go about as well as the average Emergency Mission went. Getting large groups of people to work together in this game is harder than the content itself :')

Add a savage mode, don't replace - I want to see FF14 hardcore "raiders" actually have to organize something that is more than just a small group...

Personally, I don't want to see these kinds of things with more casual players I'm 'forced' to party with for loot. I might have control over who I can bring with me for one party. Getting three alliances worth consistently is a whole other animal.

Well i'd rather see something interesting new put in then SE spending resources on creating and balancing another 24 man tier.
even now you see the 24 man raids fail because people cant do mechanics.

Nah this might just be the best thing to ever hit XIV.

How many small private in-out savage stuff did we have now? Flair it up a little and spin it around, it is a MMO after all, not a hidden in-out private savage party.

At least consider it as an expansion on things people have been casually doing in small private places as 'savage', since, like, forever?

People could barely do the basic in and out of Mhach & Dun Scaith.

Why do you want to create redundant content?

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Originally Posted by Clawbriar

People could barely do the basic in and out of Mhach & Dun Scaith.

Why do you want to create redundant content?

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I'm laying before you, two options: normal mode (casuals) and savage mode (for more skilled players). In Savage mode you get more gear and more loot ofc cos it motivates ppl. People can't do dun scaith cos those are the causal less skilled players and the difficulty is too easy. The more skilled players need something more enticing that triggers them to do it. Do any of the endgamers do omega NM? No, they don't need it maybe omega 4 for the wep. The problem is that loot in Savage mode is simply better and that drives most ppl. Sure it be hectic at first but why not a change of course than the boring old 8man contents?

I dont honestly think 24 man savage would work when 8 man savage parties are pretty terrible for the most part. Organizing 24 people would be a complete mess. I'm not opposed to this idea but it's not a good one. I can understand maybe one boss but an entire savage 24 man raid? hah, no.

If I wanted to be forced to deal with 20 more assholes I would not have left wow in the first place, so NO.

i feel it will be a massive error to do this, mostly because only a few handle of FC will be able to run this sort of content, some people already have a hard time to get into a static mostly because savage and ex are kinda unforgivable into the mechanic leading to people to be far more unforgiving to the small error you can do.
ignoring that we are human and that no one is perfect all the time. but i digress... a content made for a group of is often made with in mind that 10% can mess up. (well less in ff14 since yoshi p like to make insta kill mechanic and enrage that don't allows to cover for a mess up)

anyway, in a raid of 24 you will have more chance to have more than one person that will mess up, it's harder to keep track of the move of the whole raid and in the end... well wipe will happend often, like said only static of FC will be able to do this content... then no, it's for a very very very small part of the community and what is needed actually is not a challenging hard content for 24 player, but for 1 and 4 player, why? because a lot of people lack personal skill and in a challenging content less people = less chance to be able to mess up.

they need to accept that the game need content for help the community to progress for this they need to add content challenging for 1 and 4 player, that will help to create group and on the long terms allows the build the skill of more people. like this you will have a progression from 1>4>8 player, after they have done this, it will be MAYBE possible to add a challenging content for 24... but only have do this. you don't get good personal skill in a raid of 8.... you need the right place for the right training. a raid at 8 is for train your skill as teamplayer... not as personal player.

we often talk of this on the mentor channel on ragnarok, right now what the game lack is a mid ground place used for train and get the skill that will allows you to do the savage in right condition. until they fix this, the game will always feel... half finished. i did hope that the deep dungeon will be this middle ground, it can be this, the trouble it's you need to do maybe 3-5 hours of dungeon before reach the place where you can train. they need to make it hard from the get go and ask skill from 1-4 player to be good for progress a true challenge. if they do this, skill in general of the community will become better and maybe, i say maybe the community toxity of the end game will be less hard and allows to create a 24 man savage raid...

Anyway, rather than make an entire 24-man raid Savage difficulty, why not take what was already a somewhat difficult boss and make it a standalone (24-man) Savage boss fight. I believe Ozma Savage was hinted at in Fan Fest.

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Originally Posted by Madepossible

Thoughts?

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After seeing the enormous amount of rage in Dun Scaith...I'm against turning 24 mans into savage. However I am not against having an additional difficulty setting for 24 man.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

.... , tanks who charge into fights but then can't hold aggro or be bothered to use cooldowns. ....

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Or tanks who spend all of their time taking aggro from each other while dragging the boss all over they place because they can't coordinate between them.

Nope 24-man raids are just about right where they are for the conditions they are run under.

Absolutely not lol 24mans haven't been brain dead easy when weeping city first came out lawd groups were wiping left and right...Heck even in void ark ppl couldn't make it past the third boss sooo again no thanks 24 man are already challenging and usually when one party dies it's a wipe have you not seen ozma yet lol

But I will say this world of darkness difficulty is probably more so what you are looking for till this day that dungeon is harder for the average player because missing a mechanic on like the first boss equals a quick death

No thanks.

It's irritating enough as is to find 7 other semi-competent people to run with in PF let alone 23.

24 man raids itself don't need higher difficulty, just not ignoreable mechanics.
Ozma fight, Diabolos fight and even the 3 Atomos in CT1 have mechanics that you don't just ignore with higher ilevel without wipping the whole alliance.
This is what future 24 man raids need. The difficulty come automatic with oganizing 23 other people.
Just don't make it as easy as Void Ark was. Cthulhu was the only difficult boss in Void Ark because of his frontal poison attack after turning around 180°.

Just make both. Normal and Savage.

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Originally Posted by Valinis

Just make both. Normal and Savage.

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But make Savage just hard, not real savage

Well its already bad with the normal mode if you have bad luck with other people. I am kinda interested how you would still like it if they would truly introduce something like that. Also normal mode already takes quite the time to complete, how long would a savage run take if they do not cut the trash?

Maybe they should try it out with one savage boss that needs 24 man to beat and see how many can do that..but a whole raid? I would wish that they would take the time to create/tune something like that and use it for more midcore content that is for smaller groups or even solo.

I wouldn't be opposed to a Savage 24-man, but it'd necessitate a small rework of the PF and DF party features. Currently we can't make a group larger than 8 people and we'd want to have a pre-made alliance of 24 people to go in through DF. The other caveat to this is that the difficulty we're used to seeing must also be a valid option. The difficulty of Weeping City (and the Mhach line as a whole) was just about perfect for a solo yolo large-scale raid. I'd really like to see more of the Massive part of MMO gameplay in XIV but making 24-mans exclusively Savage isn't the way to do it.

Exclusively savage? No. Defeats the purpose of the content.
Option for savage? Can get behind that. But I would make it so it's more midcore level stuff though, not for the super-hardcore. In doing so though, I think make Super Savage 4 floors, like Savage, and make them all A3S level difficulty back in its heyday. And make all mechanics instant raid wipe mechanics. And you're locked in at a singular ilvl that is the entry ilvl. ilevel sync would be tailored to unmelded gear stats at that itemlevel (not fully capped stats for that ilvl).

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Originally Posted by Valinis

Just make both. Normal and Savage.

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24-man raids can already be either Normal or Savage depending on who is in your party and/or alliance... >w>

While I agree they should be tad harder then they previously been I don't think they will. They want 24-man raid be accessable by the whole playerbase not just a small % like with Savage mode

I'd make my peace with the ability to unlock a savage, but just realize that means even more dev time and work, on something only a small part of the player base would enjoy or participate in. I've never done a savage anything, personally, and I don't have a reason to. I'm sure plenty of others feel the same, too. If it were me, I'd say just don't worry about making this, and instead, spend time on content and/or fixes that we can all appreciate. There's already savage 8 man, and soon super savage as well. If that's not enough, I don't know what to tell you. Maybe just dip into BnS now and then, if that fills a missing piece for you. A game cant be everything to everyone and still be good. You have to manage your teams well and I feel like savage 24 mans might start to dip into less ideal management of the team.

Well considered most gear your get from Savage, rest of us get through 24 man and upgradable. Although we're late to the party obviously so if you want best gear and first from everyone - you gotta run savage.

Personally I don't care much for it either. I do some savage for kicks and giggles but im not in for BIS

I like the difficulty for the 24-man raids as it stands.

Difficult enough to make sure some people know the fight and do mechanics.
Easy enough to be able to 'save the raid' if a few others screw up.

It's fun to be the one who knows what's going on, helps others, and brings the team back from the brink of disaster in order to get that win.

Group A and C are dead?
Good thing Group B stands for Badass.

Healers up, rest of groups back up, enough DPS to finish off the boss... and it's a win for the good guys!

Make it a bit more difficult... and 'big saves' will never exist.

One mistake and it's over? Well... so much for saving the raid, it's simply impossible.

To me, that's a different way to have fun.
And that way to have fun exists in latest primals and savage content.

There's no reason to make the 24 man raids the same-kind-of-fun as savage stuffs.
Keep it 'kinda difficult' the way it is so that it contains it's own kind of fun that cannot be found elsewhere in the game.
Variety is better.