Mark of Tanaka

omg, this thread is awesome.

people follow yoshi like sheep and praise his every move. he makes a move someone doesn't like and it gets thrown up that it's tanaka's fault. this is not tanaka's fault and honestly i don't believe alot of the issues are yoshi's fault right now. my personal opinion on the game right now is that the man above them was the cause of the problems in this game atm. i could be wrong and i freely admit that, but i feel most of the decisions being made are coming directly from wada and both yoshi and tanaka before him are just doing his bidding.

i don't think any producer in their right mind would have released the game in the shape it was in on release unless it was forced from higher up. i also don't think the changes that have been made to mages would have been made by anyone that claims to have played as a mage in the past. these things would have never made it through the q&a session no more than they made it through the beta forums with that feedback. these all seem as though someone above them is forcing things out and bypassing the q&a groups completely.

yoshi may be the name that states he is the head, but i really don't think alot of these ideas and additions are from him at all. yes, i know this sounds really strange for me to be taking up for yoshi, but i really don't think he's been given an option on alot that has been done.

I thought they were going to, at least I hope they will, take out the tiers of Materia. Where magic materia IV could have one of 4 stat boosts.

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Originally Posted by captainpicard

There is no other explanation for the tedium related to the moogle item collection. It has classic Tanaka time sink all over it. The tedium level just feels like Tanaka to me.

Another example:

After acknowledging that the the +1/+2/+3/NQ versions of items were creating inventory issues, next steps were to implement 4 tiers of Materia, each having variable stats, non stacking, and requiring numerous variety of catalysts.

There are numerous examples of this sort if anti-logic in the game that make me wonder if Tanaka isn't really still driving, and the management change was just for show.

If that is NOT the case, then it seems like the new mgmt is just as interested in tedious, time consuming, not really "fun" game mechanics as the previous.

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I have to agree Primal items, it is a huge time sink.
However, I disagree with you on the materia issue. I suppose the devs had something similar in mind: materias don't stack to prevent hoarding and force their use or to move from hand to hand (good for the economy), multiple tiers and variable stats exists to add variety and surprise in the making of materia (It is not taking more inventory space since they don't stack in the first place), and the numerous variety of catalysts help put the gathering classes back on the map (and since the catalyst do stack, where is the problem?).

It is logic, just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's bad for everyone. This is a MMO, you are bound to find many things you dislike, simple because not everyone enjoy the same things and the game has to appeal to everyone.

For example, I enjoy the variety materia has to offer, but I dislike the time sink of the Primal items (being a casual player, it is really beyond my reach). Does that make the Primal time sink "bad"? Not really, they put that in for the ultra-hardcore-elitist players to begin with, not for casual players.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

[...] people follow yoshi like sheep and praise his every move. [...]

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Just because you don't understand why something was brought into the game doesn't mean others do not as well. Many follow Yoshi-P because they actually enjoy what was brought into the game, others who don't enjoy it still understand why it was a good idea (or at least on paper it was) to bring a feature in.

Because you don't understand doesn't mean others are woolly ruminant.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

i don't think any producer in their right mind would have released the game in the shape it was in on release unless it was forced from higher up.

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This is true -- However Yoshida is the Director and Producer of this game at present time and for the past year which means aside reimagining older concepts, a lot of stuff he has direct control over.

What's funny about all of the Tanaka hate is people assume he's been brushed aside or never in the front light of either project until things started to go a way they didn't like.

I'll just say though, I loved Seiken Densetsu 2 and 3 and I'm pretty sure Tanaka was all over that series -- Most people who had a SNES and played Secret of Mana loved it as well.

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Originally Posted by Nakiamiie

Just because you don't understand why something was brought into the game doesn't mean others do not as well. Many follow Yoshi-P because they actually enjoy what was brought into the game, others who don't enjoy it still understand why it was a good idea (or at least on paper it was) to bring a feature in.

Because you don't understand doesn't mean others are woolly ruminant.

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that's not what i am talking about. i am talking about the yoshi-p ism cult and stuff like that. i am not saying some of the things are not better, but some things are just worse. all i am saying if something bad comes into the game it is automatically tanaka's fault? really? if yoshi gets credit for the good then he gets credit for the bad also. like i said i don't blame either to be honest.

i think the majority of the reason the game failed from the start is wada stuck his nose in and forced things out before they were even close to ready. that forced things to be released even before the issues from beta were taken care of. he believed the game would survive on name recognition alone so he forced an early release.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

This is true -- However Yoshida is the Director and Producer of this game at present time and for the past year which means aside reimagining older concepts, a lot of stuff he has direct control over.

What's funny about all of the Tanaka hate is people assume he's been brushed aside or never in the front light of either project until things started to go a way they didn't like.

I'll just say though, I loved Seiken Densetsu 2 and 3 and I'm pretty sure Tanaka was all over that series -- Most people who had a SNES and played Secret of Mana loved it as well.

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Tanaka is a good man with a very deep understanding of what an RPG is all about.
FFXIV is not his fault alone. The game was clearly not ready for release. Tanaka must have known this. This is the same man who gave us FFXI. This man is a big fan of old school MMORPGs. He had a vision for the future of this game and my theory is that Wada+ Sony = Danger. Sony wanted something to make people buy their consoles; had a nice chat with Wada; brought offerings of nubile specimen, and we get this mistake named XIV.

Crack pipe theories. Rated R.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

This is true -- However Yoshida is the Director and Producer of this game at present time and for the past year which means aside reimagining older concepts, a lot of stuff he has direct control over.

What's funny about all of the Tanaka hate is people assume he's been brushed aside or never in the front light of either project until things started to go a way they didn't like.

I'll just say though, I loved Seiken Densetsu 2 and 3 and I'm pretty sure Tanaka was all over that series -- Most people who had a SNES and played Secret of Mana loved it as well.

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/Kneel truer words were never spoken.

Brotip: SE doesn't test having to wait around for hours for people to log on, or wonder if they can get a competent PT together. SE doesn't have to test the horrid drop rate of items; they can give themselves whatever gear, items, or key items they please.

What does this mean? It means they can let themselves into the mog fight with absolutely no wait or killing minor NMs. It means they always have a good full PT to fight with on command. It means they don't consider these things when "designing" content.

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Originally Posted by Alicia_WM

Brotip: SE doesn't test having to wait around for hours for people to log on, or wonder if they can get a competent PT together. SE doesn't have to test the horrid drop rate of items; they can give themselves whatever gear, items, or key items they please.

What does this mean? It means they can let themselves into the mog fight with absolutely no wait or killing minor NMs. It means they always have a good full PT to fight with on command. It means they don't consider these things when "designing" content.

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No...they have to make time sinks in order to keep people playing over many months.

IMO, Tanaka is one of the Best in the Buisness. Always has been, always will be. People just do not understand that Directors and Producers do not get to decide when a game is released. There is a whole Flock of People above them and yet more people above those people. The game industry, especially at the size of SE, is a monster of corporate hierarchies.

What really drives me crazy is that Yoshida blindly gets credit for everything being done over this past year. I hate to burst people bubbles but, with the exception of system and class overhauls demanded by players, most of what has come out was already in the planning and development phase. I'm not saying he hasn't put out any good ideas or added anything, but don't go bad mouthing Tanaka while crediting Yoshida with things that were likely started before he took control.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

IMO, Tanaka is one of the Best in the Buisness. Always has been, always will be. People just do not understand that Directors and Producers do not get to decide when a game is released. There is a whole Flock of People above them and yet more people above those people. The game industry, especially at the size of SE, is a monster of corporate hierarchies.

What really drives me crazy is that Yoshida blindly gets credit for everything being done over this past year. I hate to burst people bubbles but, with the exception of system and class overhauls demanded by players, most of what has come out was already in the planning and development phase. I'm not saying he hasn't put out any good ideas or added anything, but don't go bad mouthing Tanaka while crediting Yoshida with things that were likely started before he took control.

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This. He is one of the fathers of FF serie and one of the aces of SE. I wish that before people say such stuff as the ones said in this topic that they think he actually only did one big patch before stepping back from FFXIV...and the 2nd one would add stuff people are still begging to Yoshida, like DB, increase of MW features and number of items sold by retainers, drag-and-drop features, quests, hamlet defense among many others. That patch would be the real release of FFXIV.

So if you want to blame someone for Yoshida's fault, how about blaming him? It is expected from someone stacking the role of director and producer to take responsability for the flaws.

But hopefully we will be able to have the original FFXIV revived as spin-off next year so around the time 2.0 is released we will have 2 MMOs that follow not only different concepts but also the different vision of their directors.

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Originally Posted by captainpicard

After acknowledging that the the +1/+2/+3/NQ versions of items were creating inventory issues, next steps were to implement 4 tiers of Materia, each having variable stats, non stacking, and requiring numerous variety of catalysts.

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Multiple catalysts were intended to give gatherers of all levels a role in materia craft. Multiple tiers of Materia introduce randomness that allows lucky players to make something more valuable than that made by someone who didn't get lucky.

Increasing our inventory space and removing tiered HQ just made room for the new system. They compensate for this by revamping base crafting so the tiers in materials become less necessary for HQ. I never heard SE say it was wrong to have 4 item tiers at any point. Maybe I missed the memo?

The changes retain the degree of chance necessary in any game while addressing issues with crafting as a whole to make it more enjoyable.

time sinks are retarded just make a game thats enjoyable hell i havnt even done any of the fights to much involved for the total lack of fun in the fight

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Originally Posted by smokymcweed

time sinks are retarded just make a game thats enjoyable hell i havnt even done any of the fights to much involved for the total lack of fun in the fight

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If you never did any of the fights how would you know if there's a 'lack of fun' in said fights?

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

If you never did any of the fights how would you know if there's a 'lack of fun' in said fights?

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I think their user name speaks for itself in this situation.

To be blunt as much as I don't mind haters litteraly hating on everything the game does, I find it rather hillarious that they never leave but remain "Worried" or "Skeptical about the games direction" nothing ever seems to be enough to push them over the edge, just continue to peturb them.

I also find it perplexing how many people insist on "Hard content" but complain when it's too hard or time consuming, it's only "Time consuming" when they can't bash there heads against a "Hard" fight until they win everytime.

Coming from a game where if you lost you lost your entry item, the Moogle fight requirements are pretty slack. (XI if anyone was wondering)

i was expecting something cooler going by the title "Mark of Tanaka" = invincibiity for 1 min but you die once it wears off XD

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Originally Posted by smokymcweed

time sinks are retarded just make a game thats enjoyable hell i havnt even done any of the fights to much involved for the total lack of fun in the fight

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Oh you most certainly haven't done the fights then, because they are fun. The loot system is what isn't.

tanaka has had huge success in the MMO market, how fickle ppl are. they forget how successful FF11 was/is. tanaka might not have done the best job with FF14, but thats not to say hes a bad game developer. as for time sinks, a game is a time sink. i got some time, i don't know what to do. i know i'll play a game kill some time - time sink. i think the point you are trying to make is, its a boring time sink. well that is subjective. it is not new news that the game needs content. and by the time 2.0 comes out there should be lots of it. but if you don't like the style of content there is, then it won't matter how much they add. you will never be happy playing this game

LOL can't believe people are defending Tanaka, that guy is ass, he wouldn't last a day in a modern MMO company. Tanaka is great at console RPG's but he's utterly garbage in MMO development. Have you guys seen FFXI lately? he's been running it into the ground over the past 8+ months killing all momentum they built with Abyssea.

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Originally Posted by Burn

LOL can't believe people are defending Tanaka, that guy is ass, he wouldn't last a day in a modern MMO company. Tanaka is great at console RPG's but he's utterly garbage in MMO development. Have you guys seen FFXI lately? he's been running it into the ground over the past 8+ months killing all momentum they built with Abyssea.

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You do realize how small the XI staff probably is now right? Not to mention their hands are totally tied because of PS2 limitations.

Abysea killed off easily 1/3rd the player base I can't believe people are saying that was good for XI.

Tanaka in Charge XI held almost all its playerbase for 8yrs... Tanaka leaves to create XIV and another dev steps up... XI goes into a death spiral losing subs.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

If you never did any of the fights how would you know if there's a 'lack of fun' in said fights?

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You don't even play the game anymore. How do YOU know the fights are fun?

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Originally Posted by Xatsh

Abysea killed off easily 1/3rd the player base I can't believe people are saying that was good for XI.

Tanaka in Charge XI held almost all its playerbase for 8yrs... Tanaka leaves to create XIV and another dev steps up... XI goes into a death spiral losing subs.

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This. It's from offensive to outrageous saying he didn't do an awesome work in FFXI. I didn't like FFXI's HC/party-based concepts, but it was perfectly made based on them, being for sure one of the best FFs ever made. FFXI was very directed, but still a masterpiece!

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Originally Posted by Sophia

i was expecting something cooler going by the title "Mark of Tanaka" = invincibiity for 1 min but you die once it wears off XD

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Mark Of Tanaka
Status Effect
Duration: 36 hours

Afflicts the player with the Mark Of Tanaka. Armor durability decreased by 100%. Any movement by the player cause experience gains to gradually decrease until null. Additionally, experience rewards gained from combat are random. Afflicts blindness while in the market wards which renders the item search useless. Menu confirmations increased by 100%. Mouse is afflicted with software curse, which decreases movement by 50%.

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Originally Posted by ApplePie

You don't even play the game anymore. How do YOU know the fights are fun?

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Lest I be mistaken I haven't seen Jennesita make any such claim.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Lest I be mistaken I haven't seen Jennesita make any such claim.

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Check his/her history. His/her last history was in April. Why do you think he/she NEVER responds when I ask him why he/she judges people for disliking the game when he/she him/herself doesn't play. Move along whiteknight.

Ironic he/she can ask that one person if that adventurer thinks the fights are fun without even attempting the fights once, but someone else asking him the same question gets questioned.

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Originally Posted by ApplePie

Check his/her history.

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I don't bother with a posters history, you asked them how they could find the fights fun or not if they didn't play.

In the context of this thread, they made no such claim so I don't see how it's even a relevant question. Wether or not a person plays the game doesn't dissalow them to ask a question to a person who hasn't experience content to judge it so. They themselves though would obviously be exempt from passing pre-mature judgement on game content they haven't tried for themselves.

Arguably a informed perspective can allow a person to judge some content without actually being there in person for it, but that's not the question at hand nor the reason you asked them a non-sense question.


A: I don't think Brocoli tastes good.
B: How can you say that you haven't eaten it.
C: HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT!
B: Say what?
C: That Brocoli tastes good!
B: I didn't say that...
C: TEH BIAS!
B: ...what?

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Originally Posted by Nakiamiie

Just because you don't understand why something was brought into the game doesn't mean others do not as well. Many follow Yoshi-P because they actually enjoy what was brought into the game, others who don't enjoy it still understand why it was a good idea (or at least on paper it was) to bring a feature in.

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And just because *you* think you understand why something was brought into the game doesn't mean you ACTUALLY understand why it was brought in either. I can turn that logic right back at you. darkstar has a point, sometimes the devs seem to "forget" why they're in this whole mess in the first place and make these really dumb game design decisions that make no sense. However, I'm not in total belief that it is Wada behind these direct decisions - that's not the job of a CEO. The CEO may tell you to "make content for our current player base" but I'm not sure he's going to tell you "make this content so that it requires a time sink that will force players to take a longer time to complete it".

...Come to think of it, that does sound like something a CEO could meddle in to increase the longevity of said created content...

Anyway, this is what the community is for, to keep the dev team on track and to constantly remind them Not To Do Certain Things. The Prime Fight requirement was obviously a huge screw up on their part, as you got enough people complaining (or as defenders might say, whining) about the unnecessary time sink required to even get to the content. They'll implement many great things, and will implement just as many bad things. As I've said it once, and I'll say it again, I think it's up to us to keep them in check.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

I don't bother with a posters history, you asked them how they could find the fights fun or not if they didn't play.

In the context of this thread, they made no such claim so I don't see how it's even a relevant question.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

If you never did any of the fights how would you know if there's a 'lack of fun' in said fights?

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Sorry to burst your bubble. But if a person ask someone "If you never did X, then how do you know it is y?" Questions tend to be from the person stating it from experience. So when Jennestia makes this claim, it means from his/her experience, it is fun! Please stop whiteknighting and move on. You, Jennestia, and the like will hopefully be gone after payment period starts. My friend says that trolls/whiteknights like you will still pay to use the forums, I hope he is wrong.

Btw, I don't care about your responses after this point. You are going to just rehash your ignorance, make me rehash quotes and explain grammar, and then you will rehash your ignorance again. Good-bye.

go to bed Tanaka.

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Originally Posted by ApplePie

Sorry to burst your bubble. But if a person ask someone "If you never did X, then how do you know it is y?" Questions tend to be from the person stating it from experience. So when Jennestia makes this claim, it means from his/her experience, it is fun! Please stop whiteknighting and move on. You, Jennestia, and the like will hopefully be gone after payment period starts. My friend says that trolls/whiteknights like you will still pay to use the forums, I hope he is wrong.

Btw, I don't care about your responses after this point. You are going to just rehash your ignorance, make me rehash quotes and explain grammar, and then you will rehash your ignorance again. Good-bye.

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lets just ignore the fact that her highest level class is 11, but did you know she was japanese?

http://images53.fotki.com/v249/photo...25p3jf4-vi.gif

I agree captainpicard. Engage. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jd1Ih8EUmw

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Lest I be mistaken I haven't seen Jennesita make any such claim.

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He assumes the fact I use my Alpha/Beta account for the forums I don't play, yet people who actually know me and play with me knows I'm very active on Mysidia.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

He assumes the fact I use my Alpha/Beta account for the forums I don't play, yet people who actually know me and play with me knows I'm very active on Mysidia.

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http://images53.fotki.com/v249/photo...25p3jf4-vi.gif

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

He assumes the fact I use my Alpha/Beta account for the forums I don't play, yet people who actually know me and play with me knows I'm very active on Mysidia.

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Who are you on Mysidia?

Sakuya Kongouji is the first name that comes to mind. Very nice person if it's you. :)

Think about it, they have been free for over a year. A lot of their userbase has a majority of level 50s, if tedious tasks were not in game until some major expansion. who would pay or even play any more

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Originally Posted by Xoo

Who are you on Mysidia?

Sakuya Kongouji is the first name that comes to mind. Very nice person if it's you. :)

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Am I right?? I know/talk to almost everyone on the server. I have a feeling I'm correct.

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Originally Posted by Xoo

Am I right?? I know/talk to almost everyone on the server. I have a feeling I'm correct.

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sho wont say because it will exspose her trolling with 2-3 accounts she has.

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Originally Posted by captainpicard

Well if this is team Yoshida then I smell trouble ahead with v2.0. It tells me they are not learning from their past mistakes.

If your content consists of a Boss Encounter and that's it, then just let it be that. It doesn't need some elaborate system of access. Try integrating this stuff in a more intuitive way into the encounter itself if you wish people to do it. Make it fun. Tired mechanics like walking only and turbo-aggro from trees just to add danger doesn't = fun. It just equals annoying.

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nice sig.
this is what happens when u beta test. u fix major bugs and issues with the game. soon to be paid beta, 40% of the playerbase does not see this or understand why, these broken systems like PL, time sinks and everything else makes it into these patches. we are the test realms.