MCH future changes from the live letter

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Originally Posted by Alchemii

Don't forget the effect of Hypercharge causes the turret to place a 10sec debuff on the enemy with every auto-attack the turret makes. So you you should beable to Hypercharge, then right at the end of hypercharge you can use Overload and the damage being done by the Overload will be effected by Hypercharge, for a net gain in dps.

Edit: Fixing Typoes

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That probably won't happen. You'd gain 40 potency but the probability that you'll miss a turret AA because you dispatch it one second later after the penalty is over is very high and as soon as you lose that one AA, it becomes a dps loss.

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Originally Posted by Myon88

The turret autoattack interval is 3 seconds, not affected by your weapon or stats like skillspeed.

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I actually used a chronometer, with the function to get timers between 2 clicks I did for each hit. It was always closer to 3.2 than 3.0.
I'm not saying I was perfect or that the game should be this way, but it was still always around 3.2 and not around 3.0. And I did several tries, and just did it again to be sure.
So the total timer of 2m40s for 50 shots gives the result of 3.2sec and the "delay between 2 clicks" function always was around 3.2sec, so I believe what I see first.

And machinists don't have a 3.2 weapon skill delay, so I believe it doesn't change anything. According to the weapon you use, you have a delay of 2.48s (some rare weapons as Thordan, Licorn pvp weapon, legendary weapons) / 2.56s / 2.64s (the most used delay) / 2.72s (Mog weapon only) / 2.76s (Bismark weapon only) / 2.80s.

So I invite you to try on your side and tell us if you found a 3.0s delay the way I did. If you do, it means there is another bug.

You mean a stopwatch with a split lap function? Yes I used that too, and got a 3 second value. But don't take my word for it, the next step would be record some footage and measure it to your heart's content off there - anyone is welcome to try.

As for turrets not being affected by weapons nor skillspeed, this has been known since Heavensward, and nothing so far leads me to believe that has changed. I don't know why you're bringing weapons up at all.

If it is the case that turrets fire at a greater than 3 second interval, that can only be a good thing for Turret Overload, as the breakeven point assumes a 3 second interval (30s = 10 attacks @ 3s, 80 potency attacks = 800 potency). A longer default autoattack interval only increases the degree to which Turret Overload is a dps increase.

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Originally Posted by Myon88

You mean a stopwatch with a split lap function? Yes I used that too, and got a 3 second value. But don't take my word for it, the next step would be record some footage and measure it to your heart's content off there - anyone is welcome to try.

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I believe we speak about the same function, yes, I just am not English native speaker and I never read or heard about this function in English until now (so, thx :3 )
Maybe a bug, or something due to some settings or power of my computer/screen, I dunno.

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Originally Posted by Myon88

As for turrets not being affected by weapons nor skillspeed, this has been known since Heavensward, and nothing so far leads me to believe that has changed. I don't know why you're bringing weapons up at all.

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I just said the attack weapon delay of some weapons in the game is 3.2sec (like White mage melee auto attacks), and I found 3.2sec, so it wouldn't be surprising if they used such weird number as 3.2sec for the turret's auto attack delay (I only tried for the monotarget one). I never said weapon attack delay was impacting on the turret attack delay. The other one responding to my comment did.

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Originally Posted by Myon88

If it is the case that turrets fire at a greater than 3 second interval, that can only be a good thing for Turret Overload, as the breakeven point assumes a 3 second interval (30s = 10 attacks @ 3s, 80 potency attacks = 800 potency). A longer default autoattack interval only increases the degree to which Turret Overload is a dps increase.

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Not really, it just lower the overall dps of the turret people expect from it :p The fact it indirectly upgrade the efficiency of Overload is not relevant enough, we shouldn't use it randomly anyway.

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Originally Posted by Myon88

You mean a stopwatch with a split lap function? Yes I used that too, and got a 3 second value. But don't take my word for it, the next step would be record some footage and measure it to your heart's content off there - anyone is welcome to try.

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Editrido. There is 3 seconds which you already knew and there is indeed some weird lag. Wicked.

Can you give me some figures? I know and I'm sure to have an average of 3.2sec. I'm wondering how you do, and what you do, let's assume I even count the very 1rst hit at 0sec, it would do a total of 51 attacks (the 1rst one at 0sec, and then the 50 ones after this one). And if I count 51 attacks, I would have an average of 159sec for the 51 hits (I don't know how it happened, but I once had 159 sec, so I take the best score I did). 159/51 = 3.12sec (which is mathematically wrong, but still closer to your results).

If it's only happening where I am, I am wondering what magic is making my own turret slower. And I hope you don't use old data of yours.

If you're counting the total amount of time it takes to deal, for example 50 hits, and then dividing the time you get by 50 to get to average interval between each hit, wouldn't your figure be skewed upwards by the bug where some autoattacks take 4 or 5 seconds for some reason? If we assume that 50 attacks are 'supposed' to take 150s, a handful of autoattacks taking a couple of seconds extra can easily explain the longer total time.

I assumed you avoided that if you were just using a stopwatch to check every interval one by one, but if you're taking the average from the total time, then the bug might apply to your findings.

Unfortunately no, I've been lucky on some tries and had 0 bug shots from the turret. And I actually added shots and removed the delay of those bug shots to make the average.

Is it possible that some 'bugged' shots were included and not culled from your results? (How would you do that anyway?) Like if you recorded 50 consecutive shots and determined that #37 was bugged, how do you remove the effect of it from the final result?

The difference between a 'normal' 3s shot and something like a 3.2s one can be quite imperceptible, and add up over many shots. The autoattack interval can randomly bug out, and it isn't always a very obvious jump to 5s or something, it can be a smaller delay at times.

Ultimately the best way would be to record it and look over the precise timestamps yourself. I won't say any more than that as we can't discuss such tools here.

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Originally Posted by Fannah

*snip*

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I just recorded it with OBS and slowed it down to 25th of a second. Marked the time from the numbers appearing. Then did it again and marked the time from impact to impact. Then did it again and marked the time from blue ring to blue ring. Then did it again and marked the time from sound to sound. Then did it again with blue rings, but skipped to exactly 3 seconds ahead multiple times and the shots (generally) lined up excluding the delayed ones which timing fluctuates randomly.

It may be faster or slower by a few milliseconds, but in general it's 3 seconds. The outliers are in the shots that fail to go for longer periods of time. But in general we're exactly at 3 seconds using as precise timing as I can currently think of. On another topic I see why the average time for HC is 24 seconds and not 30

Yes you are right, we can't just find out by discussing it here^^"
Thank for your time, I just hoped there was like a well known issue about this and that one would know here. I hope I'm wrong and that if it's a bug here, that it doesn't affect many people.
I'll try Elnidfse way.

About how I removed the bugged shots, I just counted them and if for exemple there was 4 bugged shots, I just did 54 shots instead of 50 and removed the interval of the bugged ones.

Thise changes are pure and utter crap. We or atleast i want nothing but pure gun dps upgrade...they can sack that damm turret for all i care never liked it anyway its pure shait....even if it gace 10000000 damage it would still be a fu cking gimmik.

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Originally Posted by Myon88

I'm surprised they actually gave SCH back miasma 2, now if they could just give us back lead shot. Potencies and heat problems aside, lacking a way to multidot or pad on adds is still a very large weakness we have relative to bard now. Just what do they expect us to do if we get a fight with beefy, separated adds? (a1s, a2s, a11s lapis phase, etc).

Heat I see as a good thing. Considering that our cooldown weaponskill is a thing and is technically a dps increase over heated split-slug-clean on average, having to cooldown more to handle heat is a good problem to have.

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What is it with you guys and your Infatuation with dots...lets talk DD its the ONLY real deal...dots my arse

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Originally Posted by poffo

What is it with you guys and your Infatuation with dots

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Would you rather someone gave you $100 right now, or $40 every month for the next 4 months? :^)

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Originally Posted by poffo

i want nothing but pure gun dps upgrade.

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We got a pure dps upgrade. About a 100 dps upgrade for free simply for keeping hotshot up. You're picking a strange war to fight for no discernable reason.

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Originally Posted by poffo

lets talk DD its the ONLY real deal...dots my arse

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Apply your DD to two targets in two different locations at the same time. I dare you.

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Originally Posted by Myon88

Would you rather someone gave you $100 right now, or $40 every month for the next 4 months? :^)

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MCH DoT was just the monitoring of Hotshots cooldown at the cost of 2 GCD's. It wasn't interesting. If you are that gungho about the damage, ask for the damage that a DoT would bring over the course of 30 seconds and have it spread among skills.

Yes multidotting was a thing, but wasn't exactly the funnest thing ever either and was about the only merit it had to actually having it in our kit.

Not good enough to simply roll the damage a DoT would give you into your direct damage skills, as - as the person above you already pointed out - it doesn't do you any good in multi-target fights. Doing more damage is kind of a big 'merit', if you ask me.

It's fine if you feel direct damage abilities are more fun to use, that's one way to enjoy the game. But fun is subjective so I wouldn't state that so confidently if I were you. And for those of us that care about efficiency and output there's really no replacement for a DoT. By design, they tend to be very powerful.

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Originally Posted by Myon88

Not good enough to simply roll the damage a DoT would give you into your direct damage skills, as - as the person above you already pointed out - it doesn't do you any good in multi-target fights. Doing more damage is kind of a big 'merit', if you ask me.

It's fine if you feel direct damage abilities are more fun to use, that's one way to enjoy the game. But fun is subjective so I wouldn't state that so confidently if I were you. And for those of us that care about efficiency and output there's really no replacement for a DoT. By design, they tend to be very powerful.

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Would hitting 1 extremely powerful button over and over be more fun for you though? I won't say "no" for you but lets be real. There's more to it than hitting for more damage- there is a fun element and if you were given more damage with fewer GCD's tied to the same management (Hot shot + Lead Shot) I can't see why you'd be opposed.

These changes are good and all, but they don't address one of the biggest elephants in the room -- the fact Gauss Barrel & the Heat Gauge are a detriment before you reach 62 for Cooldown. Everything makes sense for 70 onwards, sure, but the issue is going back and doing older content; which sometimes you've little choice in the matter, and having a dead weight in GB.

I don't see them fixing that soon unfortunately, it's too 'big' of a fix to do easily mid-expansion, and it doesn't help that core systems like level syncing are a very entrenched part of the game.

Just a shame, there are other jobs that suffer greatly when they roulette into low level content too, and there are some (like Bard) that play almost the same. We're just unlucky that MCH got the short end of the stick there this time.

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Originally Posted by Greedalox

Would hitting 1 extremely powerful button over and over be more fun for you though?

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I played a lot of Diablo back in the day, so I wouldn't be so quick to assume I'd say no :^) At the end of the day however reality is complicated and things fall on a spectrum. I like doing damage, and I also like fun playstyles, but it just so happens that the damage-ness of lead shot outweighs the tax on fun that it brings for me - it's just economics.

And you know, multidotting things is fun for me too. I don't like the idea that if I'm being attacked by 4 things, I can only hit 1 of them at a time, barring AoE. I like knowing that they're all getting whittled down by a DoT before I switch my attention to each of them, so yeah, DoTs can be fun and unfortunately this is a subjective thing.