Another Post About Healer Dps

It sounds like you still need to get comfortable with the healing side of things personally. AST definitely doesn't have the personal DPS of WHM or even SCH but your cards are definitely a form of DPS you're contributing even if you aren't casting Malefic III all the time.

I would start with just managing your DoT. You've only got one if memory serves. Also you have a stun built into Celistial Opposition, you can use the window that opens up to do some damage as well.

Personally while I think it's nice from a friendship standpoint to play something to help your friends if you aren't comfortable healing I would say that's something to bring up with them. If you are but you find your tank/group too squishy that is also something you should talk to them about. Just because AST doesn't bring stellar (lol, very punny) personal DPS to the table doesn't mean they should be getting lazy with keeping their gear updated or dodging AoE's and expect you to make up the difference with heals. The way you describe your healing experience though makes it sound to me like there is some kind of gear issue - if people are taking so much damage you truly can't DPS that is a problem and you should address it with them.

Ultimately you pay your sub but I don't think it's fair to put that kind of needless stress on a healer when they could just gear up/not stand in the orange circles.

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Originally Posted by Renryuu

I didn't intend for it to sound dramatic, it's just I had made another topic in which I was having issues leveling as an Ast due to having tanks that would take tons of damage, leaving me no time to really throw out any damage spells (heck, I barely had time to throw a card out).In that topic I was told not to worry about dpsing and to focus on healing and throw out a damage spell when I can. Now I see this topic and people saying that dps is mandatory for healers, which now makes me worry because with the groups I tend to end up with, that means letting the tank (and even the dps) fall to critically low levels of HP just so I can have time to dps and considering that at my gear I do about 5k every couple seconds or so, that makes me feel like I'm constantly risking a group wipe for dealing damage that feels extremely trivial compared to the tank and dps. As for trying Sch or Whm, the issue with that is that I had intended to be a Rdm main for SB, but went healer because we have no healer in my group of friends and 4 dps doesn't make it easy for doing content together so I went healer and Ast is the only I can really enjoy since Whm's heals look visually boring and Sch has far too many buttons for me to comfortably play on a PS4 controller.

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I'm going to direct this to you because I want to alleviate some of your fears and the game is always in need of more healers.

DPSing as a healer is not mandatory. Your primary function is to ensure the party doesn't die (outside of one-shot mechanics of course)

With that being said, good healers will be using their kit to the fullest. Healers are a bit different from DPS and Tanks because your decisions are a function of how well you and your party can play. Your contribution can include but not limited to the following:

1. Healing Injured Party Members
2. Provide Buffs (job dependent) to your Party to Assist in the Fight
3. Providing Additional DPS to Ensure Mobs Die Faster
4. Conserving MP to Prepare for an Upcoming Mechanic

You may need to do more of #1 if people are taking more damage due to failing mechanics, you might not be able to do #2 at all if your job doesn't give you many options to do so, #3 is generally a good place to aim towards once #1 become a non-issue, etc etc.

Healer's have to be flexible and it shows. The good healers know when to heal and know when the DPS. The bad healers tunnel into either #1 or #3 and then bad juju happens afterwards usually.

There will be times where you can only afford to do #1 (low ilvl tanks not using CDs pulling EVERYTHING in a dungeon) and there will be times where you'll basically be doing #3 almost entirely of the time (good tanks using CDs to reduce healing load and DPS doing mechanics properly). The only way you'll know which to do when is to get experience. This will you as a player to gauge the situation and determine the best course of action.

Once you get more and more comfortable, you'll be doing less of #1 and more of #3 which is the direction you want to go in.

Don't think of healer DPS as a mandatory requirement. Think of it more as a metric of how well you and your party is doing. If you get a lot of DPS uptime that means your party needs very little baby sitting from the healer so you should do your best to contribute further to that end goal.

Don't give up and be discouraged :) Stay calm and keep healing. Your goal, like any player / role in the game is to optimize your contribution, whatever that may be. We're the shock absorbers of the group and you'll become better at absorbing these shocks the more you play healers and experience more.

I hope this post helps you more than scares you off xD

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Originally Posted by s3ystic

I don't understand why (some) Healers are afraid to DPS, I have leveled WHM a bit and am looking to main AST. Your story missions require you to DPS and heal, when in dungeons and raids I don't see it as any different. I honestly feel like I'm doing something wrong if my MP bar is at full at the end of a fight. Prioritizing heals over DPS is perfectly reasonable to me, but NOT dps-ing seems like people are just hamstringing themselves, and ignoring and entire aspect of their gameplay. Heck, its not like DPSing on a healer is all that hard: Slap down a Dot -> Jam your main attack magic ad-nauseum -> refresh DOT -> throw in stun now and then. P.S. no one is expecting a healer to parse high damage, if they are, they are dumb. They just want help to make the fight go faster.

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It's not that I'm afraid of dpsing in and of itself, it's that I'm afraid of the group dying because I'm dpsing.A common occurrence that I've had while leveling is that in the span of the GCD timer, the tank will have lost all the hp I had just healed with a Benefic 2 + regen ticks from Aspected Benefic. So if I had instead chose to dps (for example cast Gravity), the tank will end up in critical HP and I can either give up on dpsing to spend the rest of the pull fighting to get them back up to a safe level or risk another damage spell and hope they some how parry every attack to leave them at about 5% or so hp so I can use Essential Dignity. So until I get super lucky and start getting tanks that barely take any damage that are eluding me, I'm stuck either spending tons of MP and time keeping the tank at 80-90% HP or take a risk and let the tank essentially stay in critically low levels of HP just so I can dps. I see you healers talking about how there is barely anything to heal and how tanks barely take damage and here I am in dungeons thinking "what the heck, what groups are those healers running, this tank is losing 30-40% of their HP every couple seconds and I'm spamming all the heals I can just to keep them up and those dps are standing in every aoe possible and I gotta spam aoes to heal them."

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

It sounds like you still need to get comfortable with the healing side of things personally. AST definitely doesn't have the personal DPS of WHM or even SCH but your cards are definitely a form of DPS you're contributing even if you aren't casting Malefic III all the time.

I would start with just managing your DoT. You've only got one if memory serves. Also you have a stun built into Celistial Opposition, you can use the window that opens up to do some damage as well.

Personally while I think it's nice from a friendship standpoint to play something to help your friends if you aren't comfortable healing I would say that's something to bring up with them. If you are but you find your tank/group too squishy that is also something you should talk to them about. Just because AST doesn't bring stellar (lol, very punny) personal DPS to the table doesn't mean they should be getting lazy with keeping their gear updated or dodging AoE's and expect you to make up the difference with heals. The way you describe your healing experience though makes it sound to me like there is some kind of gear issue - if people are taking so much damage you truly can't DPS that is a problem and you should address it with them.

Ultimately you pay your sub but I don't think it's fair to put that kind of needless stress on a healer when they could just gear up/not stand in the orange circles.

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Oh, trust me, I've made it perfectly clear since swapping to Ast that I'd rather be a Rdm, however my friends don't really care, it's either be a healer and be able to run content with them (well 2 of them since all 3 are dps) or not run content at all with them and just do stuff on my own in an all but dead FC. Don't get me wrong though, I've gotten over my initial bitterness of going healer am now willing to stay as one (though I will still miss being Rdm) and even find enjoyment in it (well when I get super lucky and get a super awesome group where I can do everything beside just spam heal).

As for the group stuff, it's not my friends that are the issue (when playing with them things are actually quite nice and I am able to fit in some dps with them), it's the random groups I get via DF. Between tanks that use no defensive cooldowns and tanks that don't tank in tank stance, I end up burning through MP and spamming the strongest of my heals as they pull everything they are able until the dungeon physically prevents them from doing so or we get to a boss.

Throw in SAMs that refuse to move out of aoes and lots and lots of dps that refuse to aoe even when we have like a third of a dungeon's mobs on the tank, I'm left with an empty MP bar and praying Lucid Dream comes off cooldown before the tank pulls the next group. Heck now I'm getting tanks that keep on going even when I've died and respawned and trying to catch up while getting precious MP back. It really makes me envious of those that say they have no trouble as a healer and here I am dealing with all these "gotta go fast" people who don't want to use cooldowns or dodge things and would rather I spend all my MP just to keep them alive instead of striking a balance where I can focus on the tank only while throwing out a damage spell ever other cast (or whatever combo ends up working).

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Originally Posted by Renryuu

I was having issues leveling as an Ast due to having tanks that would take tons of damage, leaving me no time to really throw out any damage spells (heck, I barely had time to throw a card out).

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I'm pretty sure no one here thinks you should focus on DPS when you're struggling with the healing part. :) Even though I say DPS is a mandatory part of healer play in this game, I also always say healing comes first and that it's perfectly fine to first get comfortable with the healing part and worry about DPS after you're ok with healing and find those empty GCD slots for DPS. In fact, learning to use your healing abilities correctly is a key to being able to do DPS in the first place.

I've leveled and played my AST almost solely in DF, but my experience is very much the opposite of yours: I have found time to DPS with every single tank I've played with, and most of the time I've been able to DPS significant amounts instead of just a little. Because we all get different tanks and groups it's hard to comment anything useful to your situation. I wonder if you're actually healing as much or more than you'd have to, though. Because often when you're new to healing I've noticed (and personally experienced) that healer tends to imagine the incoming damage is higher than it really is and that they need to cast more heals than they actually do. What has helped me is recording my own healer play, since I've noticed what I experience is happening during a fight is often different than what actually is happening, and watching the recorded run has helped me to spot situations where I'm making silly cooldown choices or timing my abilities badly or casting something far from optimal in each situation. So if you have an opportunity to do so, I recommend recording your own gameplay so you can estimate it more objectively when you're not in the middle of the situation anymore. :)

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Originally Posted by Taika

I wonder if you're actually healing as much or more than you'd have to, though. Because often when you're new to healing I've noticed (and personally experienced) that healer tends to imagine the incoming damage is higher than it really is and that they need to cast more heals than they actually do.

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I dunno if it would help to give an idea or not, but typically the more hectic runs tend to go like this:

-Tank is at 100% hp.
-Tank pulls 2-3 groups or pulls as many groups the current section allows.
-Tank starts to lose hp (around 90% now).
-I cast Diurnal AB (Tank at 100%).
-Tank stops and monsters catch up to him (hovering around 90% hp)
-Tank takes hits (dropped from 90% to around 50%).
-I cast Essential Dignity and then start Benefic 2 (Tank up to about 80% hp).
-Tank takes hits (drops from 80% to around 40%).
-Benefic 2 Lands and I refresh AB Regen if needed (Tank at about 75%).
-Tank takes hits (drops from 75% to 40%).
-Benefic 2 Lands and crits and I place Earthly Star (Tank at 100% now).
-Dps stop moving out of aoes (Dps drop to about 50%, Tank down to about 60%)
-Helios lands (Dps up to about 90% and tank up to about 75%).
-Trigger Earthly Star (Dps at 100% and tank up to 80% as they took damage just before the explosion).

And on it goes until the group dies, me cast heals to keep the tank close to 80-90% hp as I can while I deal with dps when they decide that dps is more important than dodging aoe. Eventually once it's down to about 3 or so monsters, I could have time to dps, but at that point the monsters are so low on hp the dps take them out before I can finish a cast of Malefic 3 or Gravity.

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Originally Posted by Renryuu

I dunno if it would help to give an idea or not, but typically the more hectic runs tend to go like this:

-Tank is at 100% hp.
-Tank pulls 2-3 groups or pulls as many groups the current section allows.
-Tank starts to lose hp (around 90% now).
-I cast Diurnal AB (Tank at 100%).
-Tank stops and monsters catch up to him (hovering around 90% hp)
-Tank takes hits (dropped from 90% to around 50%).
-I cast Essential Dignity and then start Benefic 2 (Tank up to about 80% hp).
-Tank takes hits (drops from 80% to around 40%).
-Benefic 2 Lands and I refresh AB Regen if needed (Tank at about 75%).
-Tank takes hits (drops from 75% to 40%).
-Benefic 2 Lands and crits and I place Earthly Star (Tank at 100% now).
-Dps stop moving out of aoes (Dps drop to about 50%, Tank down to about 60%)
-Helios lands (Dps up to about 90% and tank up to about 75%).
-Trigger Earthly Star (Dps at 100% and tank up to 80% as they took damage just before the explosion).

And on it goes until the group dies, me cast heals to keep the tank close to 80-90% hp as I can while I deal with dps when they decide that dps is more important than dodging aoe. Eventually once it's down to about 3 or so monsters, I could have time to dps, but at that point the monsters are so low on hp the dps take them out before I can finish a cast of Malefic 3 or Gravity.

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Out of curiosity, which dungeons are these pulls happening in? And do you have an idea what ilvl the tanks are / actually using cooldowns? It's pretty terrible doing big pulls in leveling dungeons in a PuG unless it's Sirensong or Shisui. Bardem and on, if you're super pulling, even at capped ilvl, you're going to take a lot of damage as a tank. Same can be said for i290 tanks in Temple of Fist, Kugane, and Ala Mhigo.

I think everyone should do what they are comfortable with, I personally dps quite a bit on my whm. I find holy in dungeons to be great for aoe dps, as well as some stun down time for the tank and when a lot of mobs are pulled it allows them to position and build hate. I don't think healers have to dps, but I think (especially now without needing to stance swap) when you are comfortable with the run and the party is competent, DPS makes everything go faster and smoother.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

Out of curiosity, which dungeons are these pulls happening in? And do you have an idea what ilvl the tanks are / actually using cooldowns? It's pretty terrible doing big pulls in leveling dungeons in a PuG unless it's Sirensong or Shisui. Bardem and on, if you're super pulling, even at capped ilvl, you're going to take a lot of damage as a tank. Same can be said for i290 tanks in Temple of Fist, Kugane, and Ala Mhigo.

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The worst ones have been in the Stormblood dungeons as I've been leveling, as for ilvl I'm not sure since they don't give me time to inspect them as the moment we enter the dungeon the tanks rush off and pull. The dungeons before 61 haven't been bad and I'm able to dps decently in those dungeons, it's when I start doing Sirensong and above that things get rough. In particular my most recent dungeon run was in Ala Mhigo. It started off great and the tank wasn't taking much damage and I was able to Gravity spam on all the pulls, but then after the first boss, the tank apparently didn't like that I was dpsing so when I had a mob go after me after I had placed Bole on the tank, the tank refused to take it off me and so it killed me (it took out about 95% of my hp on the first hit and then killed me as I was trying to pop Essential Dignity on myself). After the second boss, the whole group seemed to dislike the idea of me dpsing and so now the dps were making sure they took every avoidable aoe to the face and when we got to the final boss, the dps kept stacking on me with the moves that you shouldn't do that with and kept killing me. Also on the last boss, the tank started to slap emote me before each pull as if to indicate our failures were my fault when the reason was that everyone kept stacking on attacks that they should be spreading out for. x_x

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Originally Posted by Renryuu

The worst ones have been in the Stormblood dungeons as I've been leveling, as for ilvl I'm not sure since they don't give me time to inspect them as the moment we enter the dungeon the tanks rush off and pull. The dungeons before 61 haven't been bad and I'm able to dps decently in those dungeons, it's when I start doing Sirensong and above that things get rough. In particular my most recent dungeon run was in Ala Mhigo. It started off great and the tank wasn't taking much damage and I was able to Gravity spam on all the pulls, but then after the first boss, the tank apparently didn't like that I was dpsing so when I had a mob go after me after I had placed Bole on the tank, the tank refused to take it off me and so it killed me (it took out about 95% of my hp on the first hit and then killed me as I was trying to pop Essential Dignity on myself). After the second boss, the whole group seemed to dislike the idea of me dpsing and so now the dps were making sure they took every avoidable aoe to the face and when we got to the final boss, the dps kept stacking on me with the moves that you shouldn't do that with and kept killing me. Also on the last boss, the tank started to slap emote me before each pull as if to indicate our failures were my fault when the reason was that everyone kept stacking on attacks that they should be spreading out for. x_x

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That sounds like you ran into a bad crowd. It's a shame that healer DPS has become such a divisive issue in XIV. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. You're going to run into a crowd of people who adamantly believe that healer's shouldn't DPS and will go out of their way to cause issues for the healer despite it being more beneficial to have the healer provide DPS and help melt mobs faster - doing exactly what you just described and intentionally making it more challenging for the healer. Then you have the flip side where someone will see a healer only heal and start to pull larger, not pull in tank stance, don't use CDs, etc.. Failing that they may just decide to kick the healer just before the final boss as their spite towards them.

In terms of this, all I can say is don't lose confidence in yourself. Issues caused by other players being both ignorant and self-righteous that hurt the overall efficiency of the group just shows how dumb they are. Just grit your teeth and bare it because as a healer, you're eventually going to run into these people and all you can really do is just hang onto the morale high ground of knowing what you're doing is right and you're doing it for the best of the group you're in. Some people will actively try to sabotage it so just prove you're better by getting through their challenges.

I'll keep going and focus on the good while shrugging off the bad. I did just have quite a nice run. Aside from one mistake that was my fault from over estimating the situation, the tank was very accommodating and I was able to get some hits in when I was able. It was very fun and that run really made me love being a healer. So thank you very much, I'll keep my head up and stick with it as well as just keep trying to improve myself as I improve my gear.

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Originally Posted by Renryuu

I'll keep going and focus on the good while shrugging off the bad. I did just have quite a nice run. Aside from one mistake that was my fault from over estimating the situation, the tank was very accommodating and I was able to get some hits in when I was able. It was very fun and that run really made me love being a healer. So thank you very much, I'll keep my head up and stick with it as well as just keep trying to improve myself as I improve my gear.

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Happy to hear it!

Pro tip for lazy AST!

1. Tank does man mode pull
2. Use Largesse
3. Cast Regen followed by Time dilation
4. Set down your Earthly Star on top of the tank
5. Activate Collective unconscious on top of your Tank (And a Bole if the RNG gods favor you)
6. Profit

Now you can stand around doing absolutely nothing while being useful!

(All jokes aside this is actually pretty useful if your tank wants to go man mode)

As a healer main im on the side that does DPS when they have nothing else to be doing or I'm DPSing while the Tank is taking damage down to a certain % that I know I can deal with quickly. This is especially doable as an AST as you have two regens (one that costs you nothing to use) that can stack and a few heal bombs at your command.