Take it easy, Tanks.

I do some double pulls, but I use cooldowns efficiently so normally they go fine

If the healer cannot handle it and I die and/or we wipe then I just slow down and continue the run with single pulls

The only problem i've found with this so far is that there are some tanks that will pull the 1st mob, move on to the 2nd mob and then stop for around 3-5 seconds (at which point I'm thinking "Okay, its go time") so I then cast regen on them. However at that exact moment the tank then starts running off in the direction of the 3rd mob and then I do a mental facepalm.

Not regening the tank is for bad tanks. It costs you dps just so they can have an easier time.

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Originally Posted by DacienSanderon

Not regening the tank is for bad tanks. It costs you dps just so they can have an easier time.

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That does not make sense...?

Surely you didn't mean to type "Not" at the start of that sentence?

For me, the biggest issue is not even that they overpull. It's annoying and stressful, yes, but I can usually handle big pull thanks to Holy etc., especially if the tank also uses defensive CD's. The problem is...

Most tanks nowadays DON'T use defensive CD's. And to make matters worse, thanks to sprint not burning all your TP anymore, tanks now think it's somehow okay to sprint away from the healer at top speed while they still buff/try to top their silly asses off in preparation for the next pull. This leads to a huge pack of mobs hitting the tank while the healer is still miles away from them. But somehow, if said tank then dies, with the healer not even there yet, it's still somehow the healers fault for failing. That's a trend I see increasingly lately, and it's really concerning to me. Just pulling those packs without sprint will actually result in faster runs simply because we don't wipe just because you think it's fine to stress the healer out of their mind. And it's also the reason why I barely run roulettes anymore unless there's a tank I know in there.

I actually made a post about this in the healer horror stories thread a bit back...

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Originally Posted by Fealow

The only problem i've found with this so far is that there are some tanks that will pull the 1st mob, move on to the 2nd mob and then stop for around 3-5 seconds (at which point I'm thinking "Okay, its go time") so I then cast regen on them. However at that exact moment the tank then starts running off in the direction of the 3rd mob and then I do a mental facepalm.

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I admit to stutter stepping between my first and second pulls, but this is only to make sure I actually have the mob locked onto me. If one of them doesn't get hit by flash, I'll turn around and make sure they are focused on me before I run to the next group.

Three groups though? Yeah, no, that's excessive.

Pull all the things!

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Originally Posted by Fealow

That does not make sense...?

Surely you didn't mean to type "Not" at the start of that sentence?

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I meant it as written.

A tank that can't pull properly with regen agro needs to learn. Regen on the tank while pulling reduces healing required once mobs are gathered allowing the healer adfitional time for dps.

I find that there are three types of tanks.

1. Insecure tanks learning their role who often pull smaller groups because they aren't confident in either themselves or the party with larger ones. Whether these are sprouts or just cautious players be considerate and help them discover their limits (and your own if you're a healer).

2. Confident tanks who know their capabilities and actively utilize tank stance and cooldowns as needed to pull massive groups of mobs and mitigate them to the best of their ability. These are the good players, and try to do your best to keep up with them. If they're maximizing their toolkit then try to do your best to maximize yours, and suddenly the dungeon becomes if no more fun more interesting for the both of you (and maybe a little less tedious for all).

3. Bad tanks who act like confident tanks but either forget they have mitigation cooldowns or don't know how best to use them. This includes tanks that lose aggro multiple times, tanks that gather large groups and end up at 20% HP before they even stop moving and then fail to pop Hallowed/LD/Holmgang, and those that try to do the same in the DPS stance without overcompensating either with AoE enmity skills to hold aggro or defense cooldowns during critical moments.

You will see some of all three of these. Be considerate to #1 and try to build their confidence with friendly banter, get along and try your best with #2, and treat #3 depending on how they treat the rest of you. If they're still learning then it's good to be supportive but if they're just nasty-bad then don't waste your time.

I just don't run Bardems Mettle anymore. I leave a Roulette if it pops. Too many tanks are sprinting off and pulling wipes before I can finish casting protect. Not worth the bother.

I get it. You're farming xp. You've been here hours. So have I. Maybe have a little common decency.

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Originally Posted by Fealow

The only problem i've found with this so far is that there are some tanks that will pull the 1st mob, move on to the 2nd mob and then stop for around 3-5 seconds (at which point I'm thinking "Okay, its go time") so I then cast regen on them. However at that exact moment the tank then starts running off in the direction of the 3rd mob and then I do a mental facepalm.

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I had a tank like this the other day except they would stop for 15 seconds to tank the group before running off to pick the next one... When I complained they said they were pulling "progressively" and that I shouldn't have to heal them because they were using cooldowns..

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Originally Posted by Kethic

I just don't run Bardems Mettle anymore. I leave a Roulette if it pops. Too many tanks are sprinting off and pulling wipes before I can finish casting protect. Not worth the bother.

I get it. You're farming xp. You've been here hours. So have I. Maybe have a little common decency.

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I'm honestly of the same mind. I had a DRK in there who in spite of my continuous warnings refused to stop massive pulling in spite of himself. He would have happily pulled all the mobs before the second boss if he hadn't been gated with the first set and showed no signs of slowing down after he died in that little disaster. If my BRD friend has to keep Nature's Minne on you constantly because you're too squishy to handle the pull AND refusing to do proper cool down rotations, then /maybe/ you need to back off a little. It's gotten so common place in that dungeon that I stopped farming it for the gear sets and simply moved onto Doma Castle instead for my alt - though even THERE tanks like to overpull even if the party composition won't allow for it. If you have two classes that mainly focus on single target DPS or have players who tunnel vision onto one mob, DON'T MASS PULL.

Seriously, one of the funnest things in this game for me is to show off how well I can heal by handling gigantic pulls with a good group. Yet even I have my limits.

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Originally Posted by Enla

Seriously, one of the funnest things in this game for me is to show off how well I can heal by handling gigantic pulls with a good group. Yet even I have my limits.

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I enjoy a coordinated mass pull. Reckless impatience, less so.

Well this is a age old question am a tank a PLD and here is the deal on that,I usually q pull one group at a time wen I'm learning The dungeon.the exception being when thhealè ask for a bigger pull,because he or she hamu back.once I learn it I will pull bigger.

Bear in mind. I dpo use cooldowns,including hollow ground, so the healer has a better time.BT the truth of the matter is simple you have to adapt your style depending on your party members.there is no "one size fits all " Communicate and consider your party members and you will find the right way.its not about doing it your way,is more about judging case by case.

I just came here to comment that you should NEVER regen before the tank is done pulling.

SE should just gate off each set of trash mobs. Some of the dungeons already kind of do this, with artificial barriers that come down once the enemies are dealt with. Some people would bitch and moan, but they'll get over it. The constant guessing game of "are doing mass pulls/are we not?" is a bit annoying.

I main SCH (yes still do and have been for years and boy that was fun leveling up with speed running tanks) and I run back up as a pally. The only reason I even set up a tank class was just to see what it is like on the other side. If the tank does a mass pull, doesn't understand which CDs should be used and at what time they need to be used, then yes they all die the healer gets blamed and the rest of the run is salty. If the tank only pulls one group (maybe two at the most), then the tank is a noob and the rest of the run is salty.

Screwed either way. Open communication is key and I do agree with that, but most don't even say hi at the start of a run either anymore. So I say, say your peace when it happens and we as a community need to make a stand on what we want and what we act like. Tank pulls too much? Say it and ask to slow down. Heals sucks and doesn't know how to use their skills causing everyone to die, then admit it, ask for help and get better. (You will have more fun). We just need to pick something. Stop the salt and speak up. This is not an SE issue, or really a class issue, this is a player base issue. The good news is, we can control it in our groups and hope that helps people see it and act on it.

Just my thoughts. Night all. :)

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

regardless Im just not doing them unless we wipe its boring as hell to me personally, for me from level 15 and up big pull everything but the one shot killer bees if they arent focused down first other than that, three add pulls is always gona be second option for me personally

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Which is why I will blacklist you if we are ever in a group and you are making pulls that make no sense just because reasons of your own design. Had a tad do this the other day when dps could not handle the pulls. The aoe damage was abysmal for some reason. The tank never adjusted with even with me recommending it so I could dps more and expedite the run.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Or the healer could let you drop to the floor to the adds. You're not going to pull a lot of it if you're going to die every time it happens...and the healer decides who lives or dies.

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Entitled healers. Maybe you could stop being bad at your class and strive to be above the bottom 1%. Big pulls is standard. If you can't handle it, go play RDM.

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

Entitled healers. Maybe you could stop being bad at your class and strive to be above the bottom 1%. Big pulls is standard. If you can't handle it, go play RDM.

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Big pulls are standard when the tank and/or healer are fully geared or overgeared for content, and purely reckless if they are not. Skill plays a role, of course, but to mass pull is to willfully disregard mechanics. Whether or not you can get away with that depends mostly on gear. Saying someone is bad at their class for wanting caution for a surer, if slower victory is what is bad. Although, I am of the opinion that you should never let someone die when you can at least try to save them, even if they are dying of stupidity. Remember: we're all on the same side here...

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Originally Posted by Drkdays

Big pulls are standard when the tank and/or healer are fully geared or overgeared for content, and purely reckless if they are not. Skill plays a role, of course, but to mass pull is to willfully disregard mechanics. Whether or not you can get away with that depends mostly on gear. Saying someone is bad at their class for wanting caution for a surer, if slower victory is what is bad. Although, I am of the opinion that you should never let someone die when you can at least try to save them, even if they are dying of stupidity. Remember: we're all on the same side here...

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No even while I was leveling up I healed through big pulls, as a SCH. Just have to heal more and DPS less. Adjust accordingly.

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

No even while I was leveling up I healed through big pulls, as a SCH. Just have to heal more and DPS less. Adjust accordingly.

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Uh. Because I can heal even more when already spamming Cure II like no tomorrow while the tank gets hit by 3 packs of mobs or more... makes sense...

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

Entitled healers. Maybe you could stop being bad at your class and strive to be above the bottom 1%. Big pulls is standard. If you can't handle it, go play RDM.

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Had a PLD the other day that kept mass pulling even with the healer not being able to keep up, to the point that he just quit after the first boss.

Got a new tank in a minute and proceeded to finish in a little under ten minutes from first to last boss, because the tank stuck to small pulls and the healer, me, and the dps burned everything at light speed.

Or just ask if big pulls are ok. Everyone wins!

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Originally Posted by winsock

If I slow down, you might be fine with it, the next guy will want me to go faster. The guy after him will want a slower pace than you...

If you want control over how much is pulled, the best way of doing that is to queue as tank.

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Actually, The Healer is critical to a tanks ability to multipull. People like to spin shit about how its about "if the tanks can handle it", But if the healer is unable to keep up with the damage being dished out by the 10 - 15 mobs wailing on your ass, You'll be forced to slow down or die, no matter how good your cooldown usage is.

Healers and Tanks need to work together on multipulls. As much as Tank players like to think its all about them and their "skills" as a Tank, Take the Healer away and they'll be dead in seconds. Unless you're a Paladin, In which case it'll take about 30 seconds to die.

The harder you make me work to keep you alive, The less time i have to help with damage.
When everyone overgears the hell out of a dungeon, Its not skill that lets you pull half the dungeon at once.

I'd say it does largely depend on the tank. I can heal any tank that is gear through almost anything, but if they are undergeared that becomes much more difficult.

Was SCH main through HW and it's my 2nd job (first healer) in SB...just hit 67 last night and I've had pretty good experiences so far but Bardham's Mantle has been rough...

I'm all up for pulling more than one group, and like to push myself as well. The stress level definitely goes up dramatically when I'm burning through my CD's in sequence, my fairy skills/rouse have been utilized, and I'm spamming my cures/stacks as fast as possible to try to keep the tank from dropping. It's part of it, and hopefully smart tanks will notice how long they're dangerously close to death and alter pull size or cooldown timings to ensure a smooth run.

The only thing that really confuses me is how desperate I'm trying to keep the tank up when 7+ mobs are beating on them, my CD's aren't back up yet, and I see no CD's on the tanks bar and them in DPS stance. Push the DPS as much as you can please, no issues there, but if you're floating around 1k HP and most/all mobs are back up...either have a killer CD to pop or may consider tank stance so we don't wipe :p

Lost my first tank in SB in Bardham's last night, 7 mobs, none dead, tank in DPS stance, all my CD's burned w/ no stacks left :(

What I've found in threads like this is people just need to communicate. If you are healing and uncomfortable speak up, if you are tanking and having problems speak up, if dps are having a hard time or don't have high aoe damage take it into consideration. You are a team so work like one and don't get mad if people do speak up take what they say into consideration. Maybe even give advice if you know what they are having issues with.

Thank you for all those who have responded. The thing is when you pull large groups you really not saving much time, honestly. It seems to go by faster in dungeons when the tank stays at a steady pace throughout the dungeon. Also, it's less stressful as a healer when I have a opportunity to heal/buff and DPS with the party appropriately without having to blow every single GCD or cooldown to just keep the tank alive.

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Originally Posted by Delsai

The thing is when you pull large groups you really not saving much time, honestly.

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If you are undergeared or at gear lvl then this statement is true. Once we outgear the content, which we pretty much do for everything already, you do speed it up. 6 mobs and up, usually the number of mobs in double pulls, taking the potency of AoEs, that don't fall off per enemy, will speed up the killing significantly.

Everyone saying "If you're a healer speak up" is great but most tanks don't even wait for Protect, let alone gauge your ability to handle it when they pull like insane monkeys. If I can't handle it because they often pair this with not using cooldowns, then they die. I say "That's a bit much. I think we should dial it back". Some listen, some blame me. Those who blame me, IDGAF. Have fun finding a healer to join in progress when I quit because you can't work with the team.

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Originally Posted by Delsai

I've started to get a hang out of healing since I returned from my break. However, holy crap on pulling 3-4 packs of mobs then darting ahead. I try my hardest not to cast regen on you pre trash pull but when you are sinking faster then Katy Perry's career then slow down a bit.

I know most of you have done these dungeons many times. However, be courteous and look out for those who are just returning to the game. I have had only two wipes, thankfully. However, slow it down a bit. Especially in the new dungeons.

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Why's it the tank's fault? Why can't dps just kill faster? Maybe I need to fell cleave more and lead by example.

Shit, I died.

I like pulling big to see what the healers and DPS are made of. Way too many players are just in autopilot using half their rotation.

It does bother me when people would rather spend 35 minutes in a dungeon they can perfectly clear in 20 if they actually focus and play to their best. Does this mean they will be "stressed"? sure but if its doable then why the hell is it prefferable to play using half your brain, spending more time achieving less.

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Originally Posted by armandojc3

I like pulling big to see what the healers and DPS are made of. Way too many players are just in autopilot using half their rotation.

It does bother me when people would rather spend 35 minutes in a dungeon they can perfectly clear in 20 if they actually focus and play to their best. Does this mean they will be "stressed"? sure but if its doable then why the hell is it prefferable to play using half your brain, spending more time achieving less.

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Umm stressing someone in a game isn't necessarily always fun? Large pulls can fun and a challenge. However, there are times where large pulls are an annoyance or nightmare. The attitude around pulling shouldn't always be go big or go home or vice versa. A little common sense and when needed a little empathy should come into play. Sometimes taking a hardline stance is needed too. However many players have this ME attitude about how they want it to be and/or the "meta" shoe horned into every experience.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Everyone saying "If you're a healer speak up" is great but most tanks don't even wait for Protect, let alone gauge your ability to handle it when they pull like insane monkeys. If I can't handle it because they often pair this with not using cooldowns, then they die. I say "That's a bit much. I think we should dial it back". Some listen, some blame me. Those who blame me, IDGAF. Have fun finding a healer to join in progress when I quit because you can't work with the team.

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My point was everyone needs to communicate not just healers but if the rest of your group doesn't take the time to communicate then there is nothing that can be done. The group just isn't going to function. working as a team needs to be a thing and that involves dps, healers, and tanks communicating. Not just healers not just tanks. The whole team..

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Originally Posted by Feidam

Umm stressing someone in a game isn't necessarily always fun? Large pulls can fun and a challenge. However, there are times where large pulls are an annoyance or nightmare. The attitude around pulling shouldn't always be go big or go home or vice versa. A little common sense and when needed a little empathy should come into play. Sometimes taking a hardline stance is needed too. However many players have this ME attitude about how they want it to be and/or the "meta" shoe horned into every experience.

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As a Tank, I expect every healers to at least pull their weight in HW & SB content, and be more careful in the lower level dungeons. The "me attitude" that I have has been forged through more than 500 duties worth of field experience and it's rare to find a healer that's truly in trouble; and if they do, I can always adjust myself to the healer's capabilities. Point is, just don't blame every tanks for playing the way they want, especially experienced and seasoned players who knows what to do.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

Most tanks don't even wait for Protect, let alone gauge your ability to handle it when they pull like insane monkeys.

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"Pull like insane monkeys" when the tank waits / asks for Protect, doesn't pull too many, and they have good gear and good use of CDs, they expect you to pull your weight, and make sure you're not being lazy. But when an undergeared tank and / or tank who doesn't use mitigation CDs appear and does this "pull like insane monkeys", then you have all the right to scold him / her good.

Sometimes tanks pull too fast because they're afraid the dps or healer will pull for them. I've seen many dps in particular do this, either because they are impatient to get through the dungeon they were in queue so long for that they actually forgot they were in queue, or because they have tank class leveled and think they know what their tank can and can't handle better than they do. There isn't really a simple answer, but successful communication is the best way to know what to expect from each other.

When I queue up as a DPS I tend to quickly check how much HP the healer has. You can tell by that how he or she is geared. Lower geared I go slower, good geared I usually start with 2 packs. If the healer isn't breaking a sweat I can pull alittle more. If the healer has bigger issues I slow down. Never did I have any complaint about my pull speed.

If a healer asks if I want to go ham on it all, then I will do so. Had that question a few select times.

The long-term solution to this is weeding out the dudebro gene that somehow has crept into FFXIV (at least the North American servers, anyway). The immediate solution is letting the Neanderthals learn for themselves that healers have limits and that they're not miracle workers. Contrary to what some people believe, there's no Time Attack mode in any of these dungeons. I'm sure Yoshi-P would notify us if that were the case and I'd steer clear of it, given the cancerous attitude of speedrunners in ANY game.

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Originally Posted by Gunnie

When I queue up as a DPS I tend to quickly check how much HP the healer has. You can tell by that how he or she is geared. Lower geared I go slower, good geared I usually start with 2 packs. If the healer isn't breaking a sweat I can pull alittle more. If the healer has bigger issues I slow down. Never did I have any complaint about my pull speed.

If a healer asks if I want to go ham on it all, then I will do so. Had that question a few select times.

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I hope you mean, "When I queue up as a tank"...