When are the Scions gonna get the memo...

How would they explain all the job quests for gatherer and crafters? I mean we always got the new quests because we already had proved that we are good at our profession. Also this would mean that we lose any connections we had to NPCs till then and that would feel kinda bad for me. And fighting against primals is kinda a big point in this MMO so wouldnt we just create another new name for us by slaying them again.

They would really have to tell this in a good way or I would feel really off with such a decision.

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Originally Posted by Alleo

How would they explain all the job quests for gatherer and crafters? I mean we always got the new quests because we already had proved that we are good at our profession. Also this would mean that we lose any connections we had to NPCs till then and that would feel kinda bad for me. And fighting against primals is kinda a big point in this MMO so wouldnt we just create another new name for us by slaying them again.

They would really have to tell this in a good way or I would feel really off with such a decision.

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Thing is, Crafters/Gatherers don't require soul stones to function unlike the jobs do, so there isn't much need there. As for primals, the idea was that after Zodiark is sorted out, there really would be any resurfacing. Eorzean Alliance & Friends would be working to ensure no more crop up, and without the Ascians to keep spreading the knowledge of summoning and forcing Beast Tribes to do so, the occurrences would fade. Aside from that, the Warrior of Light isn't the only person with the Echo, so its not like there still wouldn't be people capable of dealing with an occasional rogue Primal.

As far as personal relationships with the NPCs, while it would be sad, I think the take-away would be that the Warrior of Light is given a second chance, an opportunity to live for themselves rather than for others. SE could always add little side quests that have you revisit areas, stumble into those NPCs like Aymeric, Hien, etc... with the NPCs going, "You remind me of someone. We should share a drink sometime," and an organic natural friendship forming from that, rather than, "You saved my country! I shall forever be indebted to you, your willing slave, obligated to flatter you and sing your praises every time you come within a one-hundred malm radius of me or my nation!"

In a world where we can literally resurrect people using magic why is ANYONE dying? It's always bothered me in ff games that characters, especially main characters, die... Cloud and co. kinda gave up really easy on aeris... if it were me she would have been covered in a pile of fenix downs rather than straight to a watery grave...

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Originally Posted by Okamimaru

In a world where we can literally resurrect people using magic why is ANYONE dying? It's always bothered me in ff games that characters, especially main characters, die... Cloud and co. kinda gave up really easy on aeris... if it were me she would have been covered in a pile of fenix downs rather than straight to a watery grave...

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We get KO-ed. We can revive the knocked out, not actually dying.

A note which I don't believe has been brought up. Our characters have levelled up their echo powers. I don't remember us previously being able to shield our friends from tempering as we did in Emanations.

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Originally Posted by Vexander

Part of me suspects that our characters will, canonically, die at the end of the Zodiark storyline. BIG funeral service and all ensuing at the end of that expansion. Real tear jerker.

Then after the credits are done rolling, we appear before Hydaelyn who lets us return to Eorzea, reborn, and once more, the world cannot remember our face or our name, just a shadowy silhouette before a blinding brilliant light. We stand before the, 'Tomb of Light,' where we and our many artifacts are interred (soul crystals, artifact sets, etc) and become one of those Adventurers to inherit the Warrior of Light's legacy as the soul crystals acknowledge us and impart their power to us again. Probably will happen about the same time they remove classes.

What then? We go on a new Adventure, to the New World, to the West, free at last from the burden of being the Warrior of Light.

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YES. this ending. I would like this ending. If I could choose an ending, it would be this. :)

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Originally Posted by Clethoria

We get KO-ed. We can revive the knocked out, not actually dying.

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You don't Resurrect someone who's knocked out... you wake them up...

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Originally Posted by Vexander

Part of me suspects that our characters will, canonically, die at the end of the Zodiark storyline. BIG funeral service and all ensuing at the end of that expansion. Real tear jerker.

Then after the credits are done rolling, we appear before Hydaelyn who lets us return to Eorzea, reborn, and once more, the world cannot remember our face or our name, just a shadowy silhouette before a blinding brilliant light. We stand before the, 'Tomb of Light,' where we and our many artifacts are interred (soul crystals, artifact sets, etc) and become one of those Adventurers to inherit the Warrior of Light's legacy as the soul crystals acknowledge us and impart their power to us again. Probably will happen about the same time they remove classes.

What then? We go on a new Adventure, to the New World, to the West, free at last from the burden of being the Warrior of Light.

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It's a nice idea for some I guess, but personally I hate it.

My WoL is attached to his friends, his allies & to Eorzea itself. So many connections, so many ties, why would they ever be happy to lose it all in favour of a new start they don't desire or need?

I mean it could happen, but I wouldn't frame it as "free at last from the burden of being the Warrior of Light" when not everyone perceives that burden the same way.

And as myself, the player, I'd be pissed too, if only because I didn't play this game & sub for years only to get my progress effectively wiped & having to start anew (storywise, I know - it's not like they'd take our houses and gil if such a thing were to happen).

Of course this all based on your dream scenario, which I don't see as likely. Has an MMO done something similar before (except ARR I guess with the 1.0 characters?)

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Originally Posted by HReincarnate

It's a nice idea for some I guess, but personally I hate it.

My WoL is attached to his friends, his allies & to Eorzea itself. So many connections, so many ties, why would they ever be happy to lose it all in favour of a new start they don't desire or need?

I mean it could happen, but I wouldn't frame it as "free at last from the burden of being the Warrior of Light" when not everyone perceives that burden the same way.

And as myself, the player, I'd be pissed too, if only because I didn't play this game & sub for years only to get my progress effectively wiped & having to start anew (storywise, I know - it's not like they'd take our houses and gil if such a thing were to happen).

Of course this all based on your dream scenario, which I don't see as likely. Has an MMO done something similar before (except ARR I guess with the 1.0 characters?)

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Not so much a Dream Scenario as something I imagine is likely to happen. No MMO I know of has done something like this before, but since when has that been a reason not to do it? True, not everyone perceives the mantle of Warrior of Light the same way. Some players would imagine it must be a burden, to be the one everyone comes to every time a primal is summoned or Garlemald twitches its small toe. The characters certainly seem to imply as such, and if you do the DRK quests, well, it reveals something about your character whether you like it or not.

The narrative in the game around the Warrior of Light seems to indicate that being the Warrior of Light is a burden. Whether we choose dialogue options to make it seem like it isn't or not, other characters are constantly awed and shamed by the fact that we're the ones always sticking our necks out. Its started to really become apparently lately. When Lakshmi was summoned, Alphinaud, Lyse, and Alisae all seemed to be on tenterhooks about us having to fight yet another primal.

As for the friendships, one has to wonder if the circumstances affect that. Here we are, having saved 5 nations on the face of the planet, friends with the leaders of each. Would we be friends if we hadn't saved their nations? And every time we meet, they feel the obligatory need to sing our praises. Sure, friends will always give a little praise where it is due, but how many times does Kan-E-Senna have to thank us for getting rid of King Moogle Mog or Garuda or Ramuh, months/years after the fact? My friends certainly don't tell me a year later they're grateful for that one time I woke up at 3 AM and drove out in a blizzard to give their car a jumpstart.

Granted all of this is also why I expect there would be some minor quests where you'd get to cross paths with the likes of Aymeric, Lyse, and Hien, and form a more natural friendship not based on one person forever being in debt to the other for saving their nation. I also somehow imagine Hildebrand wouldn't forget us for reasons unknown. Just because he's Hildebrand.

Anyways, yeah. I can see why people wouldn't like it. But the idea is Eorzea is safe and sound, and the Warrior of Light has a clean slate and can go back to that one thing he always wanted to be before being swept up in the greater cosmic war between Hydaelyn and Zodiark; being an Adventurer. The narrative seems to always make it clear, adventuring is our passion.

Well but doesnt friendship always start on something? Even in the real world it will happen differently. Also it kinda depends if you see some of those as friends. I for example do not see the city leaders as friends. Nothing ever indicated for me that they are. Heck even most of the scions still feel like co workers instead of friends but at least with them it will be different from character to character. For me the twins and Tataru are the only ones that I would call friends and this only after going through a lot together.

But in the end if we "restart" wouldnt it just be the same again? I cant believe that we would come to good terms with any leader of a nation simply by being there. So in the end you will probably just do the same again: Quests where you either kill a primal and save the nation or do something else to help a person/nation.

And how to decide which NPC you will befriend again and which not? There are many NPCs in Eorzea that we know and that people like. This would just make people annoyed if only a certain amount of NPCs will get quests again. And it would not change the fact that we would remember them but they not us. That must hurt a lot if you care for a person.

Also if this is after Zodiark, we would have lost the biggest burden anyway. Yet unlike others that somehow does not remember us, we will still remember everything. So I am not sure how this would free us from our other burdens? We would still know that we should slay primals and on top of that we remember being friends or comrades or co workers with NPCs that are not even remembering us anymore. I would find that truly horrible, knowing that those people will never remember all the good (and bad) stuff we went through together and being treated as a stranger by them.

And with gathering and crafters I meant that we worked hard to be seen as a master of the profession and it took our time to earn the respect. But this would be gone too thus why should we ever get a new task from them again? This would just mean imo that we wont visit them again in the job quests because they simply cant remember us.

Yes for some this might be nice but at least for me, a "restart" like that would mean that my character still has all the burdens, all the memories but nobody to share them with. Also after all the stuff we did, we would get no true recognition for that. And in the end we would just start at lvl 1 again and somewhere down the line we would be famous again. It would be the same like before, just with loss of some friends, a burden that you cant share with anyone because they dont know you and all for something which you can achieve even without death by simply going to the scions and saying that you need a time off. (I mean you said that this is after defeating Zodiark so the big bad should be down with that)

You could in a way make it so that our character is believed to be death (but still remembered) and we would be transported somewhere far away on Hydaelyn. Maybe we will lose our memories for a short while or maybe there is another reason for us not to teleport back to Eorzea. This would give us a chance to play as a normal adventurer again without us losing all our work and friendship we got through all the times. At the same time the others in Eorzea will have to learn to solve problems without us and in the end (maybe after one expansion or more depending on the choice) they will get a clue that we are still alive and try to get in contact with us, till we find each other again. Eorzea might not depend on us that much anymore, we would have been able to make new friends without destroying the bonds to the old ones and leave everyone happy. And being able to go back to Eorzea is a ingame mechanic anyway. (Like how we were in Doma all the time in lore but could just visit Eorzea all the time ingame)

Ah, I think I see the confusion here. When I said all that, I didn't mean, go back to level 1. Quite the opposite.

You start out wherever the Tomb of Light is (probably Mor Dhona) in a cut scene where you approach your own tomb, and then the soul crystals light up and you are recognized (ICly) as one of several adventurers to have been fortunate to inherit that legacy, you might even see an NPC later go through the same thing. You retain your crafting skills.

So, when the next Crafter Quest comes up you go to the guild and they go, "Welcome to the guild! I can see by your equipment and hands/posture/whatever that you're no stranger to our craft. We'd love a sample of your work." Turn in obligatory item. "Incredible! A true Master! We haven't seen craftsmanship this amazing since we lost a dear friend."

As for the various NPCs, like I said, it would be a more organic thing in developing friendships, but all sharing the same factor in that you, 'Remind them of someone.' They can't put the finger on who, but those connections formed partially supersede the mind wiping of Hydaelyn, to the point those NPCs want you to be their friend.

As for losing all the recognition and fame and accolades, yeah, you're not getting that back. The whole point of being freed from the mantle of Warrior of Light is to escape all that to begin with I imagine.

Nope... for me the msq is actually a sidequest in my characters life... an event not the totality... for my character being WoL isn't a burden but a blessing... granting me access to more challenges and adventures... I'm an adventurer first and savior second... all the things my character has done was of his own volition... the npcs may perceive my actions as morally imperative or self sacrificing but that's just their views... I'm in it to win it... all of it...

@Vexander: Oh sorry didnt mean to sound like we go back to 1 or something but more along the line that they just simply dont know that you are talented. And yes we could just show them how good we are but we also got a lot of the new tasks because they trusted us and this trust would be gone. And if they dont remember us anymore I am not sure if they would remember us as a dear friend. (I mean if they dont know the faces anymore the memory wipe would be big, so shouldnt they have lost all the memories of us too? Or at least they will just see a light instead of a person so not sure if that will create a good feeling)

About friendship: But that would mean that lots of quests would needed for all of these NPCs we know since you still need time to grow a friendship. All of this will take away from other adventures we could do in the new lands. And it would not feel like a honest friendship for me because they are already influenced by old feelings so its not even a true fresh start. Also everyone sees their WoL in a different light anyway. Maybe some dont even see them as friends and feel just forced to create a friendship again, some others already saw them as honest friends and dont understand why it was even necessary and some might like it that way. Still there are so many NPCs in the game that we know and so many different ways they can be liked and I cant see how they would do this without disappointing someone. For example if you created a friendship with a more minor side character and this character is way too minor for SE to give them a quest line, you will kinda lose the friendship with that person because they cant remember you. Yes you could make your own head cannon where you will just create a friendship with them again but this is not shown ingame thus they will always just treat you as a stranger that somehow might feel familiar.

And at the same time you will have lots of people that love to play a hero because they like feeling important. And you do a lot for these Eorzean people and sacrifice a lot too only to become a nobody again. So you did all the work and will never get the recognition for it that you deserve. I already feel like the WoL has to do the highest amount of work but gets barely any recognition for this, and with a memory wipe this would be even worse. And this would be after defeating the big bad so you would have saved billions of lives and yet nobody would thank you. At the same time we would remember everything (good and bad). At least for me this does not feel like getting rid of the burdens and starting anew, it feels more like still having the painful memories of going through all of this, having nobody of your friends recognize you (and lets be real, its not a given that we would be friends again because we created some bonds through fights like Bahamut and made them stronger later) and you still have the burdens of having to kill primals because you have the ability to do so. And on top of that it would make our whole life in Eorzea less comfortable too. I mean we got a lot of services and stuff because we did those things, realistically we should lose all of that because nobody would know that we saved the world countless of times. (We should lose all of our retainer licenses, the flying licenses, our ranks in the city states and more. Also realistically none of the retainers should give us our stuff back because they dont know us and they only know that their old master/employer is death. This just opens up a lot of reworks, lore bending or plot holes to let it work.)

I dont want to put your ideas down and say that they are wrong or that SE would never do this but for me this would be kind of a bad ending and would feel like all the stuff we did and all the friends we got are for nothing. I see no reason to do this, simply because if its after Zodiark is killed, the biggest burden should be gone. We then should be able to tell everyone that we will go and do some other adventures and we could also use our status for a lot of things.

@Alleo To hells with the services and the sycophants!

I don't want to have this ridiculous moniker define my character forever. Because at times it feels like she's artificial, not someone who lives and breathes in the same world as the rest. If that were truly affirmed by the story I'd honestly feel cheated. Choices and deeds since then has felt artificial since 2.0, and short of no longer being the Warrior of Light, I'm not sure how to get that back.

@kallera: I do agree that the WoL often feels artificial but that is probably because she is a blank character. At least in single player games like Dragon age your character can be formed by your own choices (how you behave to NPCs, how you react in certain situations) even if there are defined endings. But here in FF14 there is simply one ending and one way to play this game thus we cant make choices that feel like this is our character. At the same time they give us more sentences that might show some character but since its still one story they cant truly act on it. You cant say no to the war because even if the sentence is there, you choosing it, will not affect anything. SE also starts to give the WoL a bit of their own character which might also clash with how we see them. (I would have never tried to hit the youngest Fortemp for example)

With that you will have people that hate a certain NPC and yet are still forced to be friends with them. So I can understand the want to break chains with them but in the end this will change nothing. You will just start in the new country and just start to be forced to do certain tasks again and to befriend certain NPCs again. At the same time such a decision could anger a lot of people. Because until we defeat Zodiark we will probably befriend even more NPCs. So people might lose this bond to someone they truly like as a character and may not get a quest to get this friendship back.

I am just not sure if there are enough players in this game that would be fine with such a new start. It is SEs story to be told so we have to go on their ride, if we want it or not, but I am not sure if they would choose that kind of ride for us. (Simply because it also opens way to many plotholes like retainers, housing, beast man rangs and more) But I do wish that we might get back to being a bit of a normal adventurer again sometimes because defeating one big threat after the other will get a bit boring after a bit but at the same time I am not sure if you can really create an interesting main story line without that. But we will see.