PvP Exp: Nerf and thoughts

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Originally Posted by Exterium

Yeah, those 3 players used to have a lot of fun back then.

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Again with this... This isn't even making any senses since garo took place before 4.0, it was a bit more than a bunch of hardcore.

Lots of people keep ignoring the fact that GC restrictions/matchmaking has done more harm to pvp than anything else. If playerbase wasn't as big as pve (from the most hardcores to the casual player) it would have been enough to keep pvp alive if it wasn't with this dumb matchmaking, even if it meant more 24m than 72. Put GC restriction right now or during garo event, be sure queues will die in less than one day.

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Originally Posted by Ayerinn

This is not a PvP game...not even remotely close. PvP is a laughable sideshow that should have never been implemented just like every other MMO that shoehorns it in for those few players who can't seem to actually go play a game that is PvP only. Just look at what they had to do with it...they had to make a separate "FF14 Legends" side game to complement the actual game (which is a heavy story driven PvE game.) The only way to fix the AFK issue is to either A) REMOVE XP from PvP altogether or B) Implement a "minimum participation" requirement. Having tiered XP amounts is just going to piss people off and significantly decrease participation. At least they have not touched tomes @ 70...yet. But they wouldn't do that unless they want to completely kill non-rated PvP off...

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If you feel that way. Fantastic. Don't queue into PvP and allow those of us who like it to have fun with it. Removing EXP entirely will do far more to decrease participation than a tiered system. Anyone who only values EXP was never long for PvP to begin with and I couldn't care less if they're "pissed off." Funny enough, PvP queues were highly active ever since the GC restrictions were removed. Ranked Feast died since SE refuses to implement a depreciation system, but unranked and Frontlines popped with 5-10 minutes all the way up to the day the servers went down. So this doom and gloom scenario doesn't exist. Furthermore, if we're going to determine game modes based on their supposed percentage. I guess Savage needs to be removed since not even half the playerbase can come anywhere close to clearing it.

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Originally Posted by Nixxe

There's nothing broken about the rewards structure.

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If you don't think that getting exp worth of 8 to 9 side quest while potentially doing absolutely nothing was not broken then i don't know what is, also exp now work as a carrot like it was supposed to work since beginning, before this fix there was absolutely 0 motivation to care about winning but now there is.

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Originally Posted by Synestra

If you don't think that getting exp worth of 8 to 9 side quest while potentially doing absolutely nothing was not broken then i don't know what is, also exp now work as a carrot like it was supposed to work since beginning, before this fix there was absolutely 0 motivation to care about winning but now there is.

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It's the same scaling PotD had for about the same amount of time per match. Side quests give terrible XP and are an extremely inefficient way of leveling. That's not new. They were only ever "good" because there was no source of decent XP with instant DPS queues.

And winning is its own reward, along with an increased number of Wolf Marks. People who didn't care about winning before still aren't going to care since they can just hit a button every minute or so and still get credit while they focus their attention on other things than the game. They also could have simply buffed the XP the winner got, rather than nerfing the XP the losers get. As I've said many times now, whether you win or lose is always going to have more to do with who was placed on your team than it does with you. This disconnect between reward and personal contribution is extremely discouraging. If anything, it's an incentive to stop caring because "Oh, what does it matter? Even if I try really hard, my team will still do stupid things and lose." Just look at the turnaround I experienced when I switched whose team I was on. That's the proof right there that the outcome is a result of anything but one's personal contribution. Why should I have to leave the GC I actually like just to get decent XP? If the goal is to motivate people to win and to try, then why should I be punished for being grouped with the wrong people, something only the game controls, even though I already try to win? Until there's a direct link between personal effort and personal reward, don't expect this to have any real impact.

Your complaint can be applied to any aspect of the game and not only that, but to any game that has competitive PVP where the winner always receives much more than the loser. In Wow the winners receive more experience than the losers when you are doing low level BG and never in my life have I seen any complaints.

There's a lot of differing opinions so let me again reassert where i'm coming from.

I don't have a problem with higher rewards for winner than losers.

I do have a problem with the elitism ideal that PvP is something purely for PvP players. PvP does not exist in isolation in this game. If it was meant to be considered completely separate, it would have a separate client. Therefore, giving compensation away from PvE for their time in PvP is smart practice.

The speed of Feast Matches and differences between winning and losing evens out and nets positive if you play well, and long matches are rewarded better. In the end I'm okay with the Feast Changes.

I do think a net nerf to Exp in front-lines was uncalled for. The baseline of ~700k exp would have been fine for second and third place. The team that put through the extra reward should have been given MORE exp, not just the baseline and punishing other players.

None of the above fixes or remotely addresses the Bot issue - which the solution to this should be faster kick/report system within PvP globally. There's no point punishing legitimate players for the actions of a few abusing the system - they should act directly upon those abusing the system.


I do believe there should be better intensives for those who play seriously, or even giving Frontlines a ranked mode for people to play it more seriously that's devoid of Exp Rewards. However keeping a baseline area for players to whet their appetite for PvP out of curiosity, or to use it as a utility to broaden the scope of available leveling methods should exist, in my opinion. The benefits to the wider community outweighs the downsides. That does not mean nothing should be done - there's plenty of work to improve things. However, I believe the course of action should lead more toward the productive rather than the reductive. (More features, more types, more rewards for those being serious.)

Hopefully this clears up my viewpoint for people.

Honestly? The PvP XP changes are bullshit. They should have left the XP the same for losing and buffed it for winning. Furthermore, they should have differentiated between 2nd and 3rd place. With the system as it is now, as soon as you're behind you may as well just feed whoever's in first and end it quickly so that you can requeue. It's probably faster to just fate grind now than it is to PvP - unless you can guarantee a win every single time.

They add exp on pvp and suddenly we see new faces lol

Tbh exp in pvp lol like idk really?
There are more important matters like CC, jobs balancing and chat. Healers beong CCed 50% of the match, dps that attack random target, 10 stack melee, tank that stays 100% healer doing exactly nothing and no one bats an eye, they reduce exp in pvp and everyone lose their mind.

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Originally Posted by Sin_Nombre

Honestly? The PvP XP changes are bullshit. They should have left the XP the same for losing and buffed it for winning. Furthermore, they should have differentiated between 2nd and 3rd place. With the system as it is now, as soon as you're behind you may as well just feed whoever's in first and end it quickly so that you can requeue. It's probably faster to just fate grind now than it is to PvP - unless you can guarantee a win every single time.

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Pretty much this in my mind, though I still try my hardest to win even if I know our team is losing. Yet there in lies the problem. One person /cannot/ change the tide of a Secure or Shatter match. It simply isn't possible unless they're the god emperor of all and hit every one of their targets flawlessly with equally flawless back up to support them. Even then if your team runs around with their heads cut off, chasing one team into their base only to get flanked by the last team and summarily killed, go off and attack one team in the middle while another gets nearly perfect time on all the capture points, or just acts monumentally stupid then what can one person honestly do? Try to shout advice in chat? We all know how that goes. I legitimately watched a group of six players today goof off back at my team's base for well over four minutes at the end of the match only for them to bitch about the team not being up to snuff. Why should one person be punished for the actions of others?

Yet even then, not matter what you do people are going to be absolutely awful and lazy. Nerf it to the ground and botters will still use it, increase it and people will still dick around at base, get rid of it entirely and you can say BYE BYE to those new swift queues we've only seen a tremendous increase of since the Garo event. There's no fancy fix all for this situation.

That people continue to believe that the only problem of the PVP were the bots proves not to know what the PVP was like before.

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Originally Posted by Enla

One person /cannot/ change the tide of a Secure or Shatter match.

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Seize in 3.X era neverforget!

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Originally Posted by Sindele

punishment structures

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For what it's worth, I reported a player for being AFK in Frontlines and the GM got back to me saying that they were investigating these claims, and taking proper action should the player in question be abusing the system. They understand it's a form of griefing. So, start reporting people. If some bans start rolling out, hopefully it will scare some people into not being jerks.

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Originally Posted by Endemerrin

For what it's worth, I reported a player for being AFK in Frontlines and the GM got back to me saying that they were investigating these claims, and taking proper action should the player in question be abusing the system. They understand it's a form of griefing. So, start reporting people. If some bans start rolling out, hopefully it will scare some people into not being jerks.

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That's an automatic message, While GM have been active during S1 and start banning people for those kind of behavior (even some cheaters in 4v4 party, at least on Chaos), they didn't do anything until stormblood, except against "Nice Job" Spammers during Garo. As long as Yoshida himslf don't get involved and say out loud that those behaviors will be punished, only a tiny bit (perhaps) of people will get effective bans, and by that I mean, no "2 days ban", real punishments.

Wonderful, there goes my entire reason to pvp. It was wonderful before this crap, because the xp was good enough to be competitive with other methods without being crazy. Now 2/3rds of the players get screwed. And it's not even like it's some personal thing either, what the crap am I going to do that will make the 23 other morons on my team not be morons?

If anything winning should have been given a 1/3 buff. Then you can still call it the same thing but the xp levels will be back to being competitive with the other methods. As it is now the 2/3rds xp is just enough to make pvp not worth the time. Even before it wasn't nearly was fast as POTD, but it was fun because it was still good enough to not be a waste of time and be a nice distraction from potd or the same dungeons I've ran a few dozen times before.

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Originally Posted by electricblues42

Wonderful, there goes my entire reason to pvp. It was wonderful before this crap, because the xp was good enough to be competitive with other methods without being crazy. Now 2/3rds of the players get screwed. And it's not even like it's some personal thing either, what the crap am I going to do that will make the 23 other morons on my team not be morons?

If anything winning should have been given a 1/3 buff. Then you can still call it the same thing but the xp levels will be back to being competitive with the other methods. As it is now the 2/3rds xp is just enough to make pvp not worth the time. Even before it wasn't nearly was fast as POTD, but it was fun because it was still good enough to not be a waste of time and be a nice distraction from potd or the same dungeons I've ran a few dozen times before.

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That is your own choice,exp earned in pvp even by loosing is still better than most other ways of leveling up: fates, quest, and even dungeon for DPS according to the amount of time spend/exp. In Pvp, if you're team suck, the amount of time will even be lessened, in other modes, it can only take longer and longer by a far margin. Right now, only PotD is better. PvP is probably indeed the most enjoyable way to get XP atm. SE cannot reduce the amount of fun you have in PvP (or could they...) this is people own choice to choose the "best-xp but no fun mode" over a "not-so-bad xp but fun mode". Also, feast 8v8 brings better xp than FL.

The point was that before this needless change the xp was perfectly fine, it was one of the better ways to level without being too much. Look, I only have so much time to play, and there are many other casuals like me. When I am playing I kind of need to be leveling currently so that I can get into Stormblood and enjoy the new expansion. Doing PvP mixed in with roulettes and PoTD was very enjoyable, not just because of the PvP (which is okay) but because it was just as productive of a use of my limited leveling time as the other methods. The other methods you mentioned just aren't viable at all, no one does FATEs it's me solo 90% of the time anymore, there are no side-quests left and leves are even slower, and roulettes are great once a day. But the point was that PvP XP was just fine before, and now it's just flat out no where near enough to be worth your time. The only reason to PvP anymore is if you just want to PvP, or if seeing PoTD one more time makes you want to kill yourself. Besides that the rewards just aren't worth it, and that's a damn shame because before it was juuuust enough to be worth your time.

I liked to be able to do something unique and it not effectively be a waste of my time. If I want to log in and pvp all afternoon I might enjoy it more than PoTD all afternoon, but now choosing to have a little more fun will mean that I'd be leveling half as slow and be able to reach max level/raid with my friends half as slowly as I would if I chose to not have fun and just level. And if I'm not mistaken the entire idea behind putting xp into PvP was to allow people to be "productive" while also doing something that they enjoy. Leveling should be roughly the same whichever path you enjoy, PvE or PvP. That is the design intent SE is trying to achieve, and by nerfing the XP in PvP they went in the opposite direction of that.

The fact you said, "there goes my entire reason to pvp" is precisely why the nerfed it. They don't want Frontlines to become the new PotD, where all people do is queue in and barely participate because they don't care one way or another. I'll be blunt. If you're only reason to PvP was EXP, I'm glad you'll no longer bother.

Minor issue many of you have been forgetting, theyve been gradually discouraging dedicated pvp players since the 2.X era when they removed Morale.

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Originally Posted by Jerrinehart

Except you're forgetting the part that even if it worked EXACTLY that way and it was all try hards a third of the players every game receive nothing, how the hell is that any fun? The rewards for winning should be for gear, glamours, items, not experience.

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Quote me exactly where I said it shouldn't. In other threads I've said the experience needs to be removed altogether. The reason I put forward that suggestion in this thread is because A) It's about the thoughts of the nerf and B) It's to take away the reward players get for not participating at all and just afk'ing.