Why PLD is not balanced.

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Originally Posted by Jhett_Magnum

Someone mentioned in a thread earlier talking about DRKs being able to keep BW/BP up 100% of the time via Bloodspiller and Quietus. I think that would make for a DPS increase without raising the skill gap to much right?

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BW should honestly just be a stance and have its effects dialed back slightly to compensate.

Funny thing is that it is extreamly easy to buff WAR in comparison to PLD in 3.x. We had no idea how to buff PLD in 3.x because it was bad by design, and without radical changes to the battle system we couldn't be buffed. WAR just needs to be made a bit more like 3.x WAR, which isn't difficult to accomplish.

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Originally Posted by Nixxe

That's just plain wrong. Convalescence was a cross-class ability for you before. It still is. It was a baseline ability for me, and a buffed one at that. I now have to give up a role slot to get it back, instead of actually acquiring an additional ability. That is a loss for paladin and only paladin, while the status quo is preserved for the other two classes, which have only ever had it through cross-class. The same goes for Provoke, Awareness, Interjection, and Rampart (with respect to f you guys don't like the changes to your classes or think there need to be buffs or whatever, but trying to distort the situation isn't helpful.

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I already acknowledged the 10% convalescence loss. You can't get that back.

However, the 3 skills we lost to the role skills we can't get back. DD, Reprisal, Low Blow. They have the same names but they are not the old skills.

war need more damage mitigation that dps.
now war tank is awful, like a paper

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Originally Posted by odette

war need more damage mitigation that dps.
now war tank is awful, like a paper

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What? Have you ever looked at your skills?

War is about offensive tank, let the mitigation for PLD That's what they suppose to be, the unbreakable wall.

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Originally Posted by vigioX-Sun

War is about offensive tank, let the mitigation for PLD That's what they suppose to be, the unbreakable wall.

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Yes and No, if you go down that route then what will happen is PLD will get sidelined again because it lacks dps for the raiding meta which is 99% dps orientated . I changed in HW because of this reason. So what is the answer how to balance this, so that HW does not happen again?

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Originally Posted by Nixxe

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I'm not quite getting why this is point isn't getting across. The fact of the matter is all tanks had to sacrifice skills to he role ability (or straight up lose them) but the PLD still has access to theirs, your kit still functions the same way it always has because (barring convalescence) nothing has changed about them. The point that Falar is trying to make is the fact that yes DRK can still get low blow and reprisal and such back BUT they are vastly different, there is no longer any synergy or interactions which makes the DRK kit feel a lot different.

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Originally Posted by Faeon

Yes and No, if you go down that route then what will happen is PLD will get sidelined again because it lacks dps for the raiding meta which is 99% dps orientated . I changed in HW because of this reason. So what is the answer how to balance this, so that HW does not happen again?

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But they alrdy got the DPS! Even more than war/drk.
War just need it's flexibility back. An a few changes to some skills like onslaught an others, an since they got no utility yes war DPS should be above PLD at least by 250-300 because they bring nothing to raid.

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Originally Posted by vigioX-Sun

But they alrdy got the DPS! Even more than war/drk.
War just need it's flexibility back. An a few changes to some skills like onslaught an others, an since they got no utility yes war DPS should be above PLD at least by 250-300 because they bring nothing to raid.

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This comment "They Bring Nothing To The Raid", this is the problem that HW had and why Mnk was basically not part of any major meta due to DRK bringing Del. I am talking from playing a WAR and PLD currently in SB. War and Drk need there abilities to flow better There DMG lacks because of the penalty they take when switching stances, "this is just one thing I am saying" there are other things too.


To balance, you will need the raid to require utility and dps no matter the level of gear. So in other words bring 8 jobs that offer nothing to the group just to nuke down the boss and skip any phase without bringing utility. This is where SE needs some work, I am no expert. But buffing just dps is not going to help any of the tanks.

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Originally Posted by Cevoh

I'm not quite getting why this is point isn't getting across. The fact of the matter is all tanks had to sacrifice skills to he role ability (or straight up lose them) but the PLD still has access to theirs, your kit still functions the same way it always has because (barring convalescence) nothing has changed about them. The point that Falar is trying to make is the fact that yes DRK can still get low blow and reprisal and such back BUT they are vastly different, there is no longer any synergy or interactions which makes the DRK kit feel a lot different.

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Because that was never in contention until people started pretending PLD lost nothing. PLD did lose stuff, the same as every other tank did. Whining that your loss is somehow lossier is an asinine attempt at trying to pretend you somehow got screwed while PLD was left untouched. This isn't difficult. Stop making it so.

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Originally Posted by Atreides

And they still have access to them with their full benefit.

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Technically, no.

Convalescence and Awareness both previously had traits improving their performance on Gladiator/Paladin.

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Originally Posted by Nixxe

Because that was never in contention until people started pretending PLD lost nothing. PLD did lose stuff, the same as every other tank did. Whining that your loss is somehow lossier is an asinine attempt at trying to pretend you somehow got screwed while PLD was left untouched. This isn't difficult. Stop making it so.

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What did Paladin lose? Because I'm not seeing it having lost anything. Yes, some skills became cross class, but that wasnt a lose for them. Especcially when you consider that PLD's old options for cross class were a joke. At most they lost Bloodbath.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Technically, no.

Convalescence and Awareness both previously had traits improving their performance on Gladiator/Paladin.

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The cross class ver of these skills are the equivalent of the old traited one.

Not convalescence. Traited was 30, now its 20.

PLD is fine. DRK and WAR damage needs to be buffed and WAR stance change penalty needs to be smoothed and/or removed. If they simply nerf PLD there will be even more of a tank shortage...

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Originally Posted by Tila

What did Paladin lose? Because I'm not seeing it having lost anything. Yes, some skills became cross class, but that wasnt a lose for them. Especcially when you consider that PLD's old options for cross class were a joke. At most they lost Bloodbath.

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When you have five baseline abilities and five cross-class abilities and then you have -5 baseline abilities and five role abilities, that is a net loss of five abilities. It's not complicated. Don't try to make it so. I'm done trying to explain it at this point though. Either you get it or you don't.

Pld had a lot of its abilities go to cross class skills, rampart, provoke, conv, awareness. They made us take these back to use them. So we lost our other cross class skills we had before. The ones I miss the most are protect and stoneskin. There are many healers I run into that do not use protect and before it was never a problem because I would just cast it. A lot of them will use it at the start but if you die for any reason they rarely recast it. In 2.0 and 3.0 if I got raised the first thing I would do is cast protect. Also I loved using stoneskin on myself when I knew a boss would be using a tankbuster that is gone as well.

But if I had to pick a skill I hated losing the most it would be protect.

totsly nailed it

Savage Blade Enmity effect has been increased.
Flash Enmity effect has been increased.
Marauder/Warrior
Action Adjustment
Heavy Swing TP cost has been reduced from 70 to 60.
Skull Sunder Enmity effect has been increased.
Overpower Enmity effect has been increased.
Dark Knight
Action Adjustment
Spinning Slash Enmity effect has been increased.
Unleash Enmity effect has been increased.
Bloodspiller

RIP DRK + WAR