Why is Machinist DPS SOOOO BAD?

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Originally Posted by Guulu

Also rook overload seriously need a buff. It is straight out a potency lost even under hypercharge and it crit during WF:

turret up for 30s: 80*10=800
crit overload with WF: 400*1.5*1.25*1.05=787.5

Unless combined with like trick attack, the balance, other 5% damage buff, it is still only ~200 higher, and that is when it crit. If it doesn't crit, it is a potency lost no matter what.

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Overload damage is not compiled for WF damage. It is not supposed to be used as a dps ability to be used whenever it's available. Nevertheless it's too weak, I agree.
Also, I believe that FT shouldn't be used under normal circumstances on a single target, except for going overheat if you're missing that 10 heat for your next wildfire and only if you're barrel stabilizer will be available after the barrel off penalty is removed.

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Originally Posted by Fannah

I agree the skill looks weak, but you still have to consider its burst utility in dps check phase. Thinking SE believe it to be a viable dps thing would be wrong. You need to dps, let the turret attack over time. You need to burst for dps check blow up that turret at the end of this ddps check phase. Then very often after such phase, there is a moment where to boss jump/get invulnerability/untargetable. So meanwhile a turret wouldn't have attack either. Don't look at what it doesn't do. Look at what it does.

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Yeah I totally forgot about phase change stuff. Thank you for bringing that aspect into the discussion. But still, the damage is not impressive at all. Most phase changes, however, is adds phase before boss shows up again. So it means you'd prefer to have your turret up for that duration too.The fight in 4.01 I can think of turret overload can be useful is lak ex and omega V3.0. And it is likely to be just 400 potency, because if the boss is still being targetable for over 18s after your last WF, that is a potency lost. That is, in a fight if you plan your turret overload well, you're likely to do:

For no phase changes:
Timed with WF perfectly: 400*1.25=500
Not timed with WF perfectly: >500 to -300 (potecy lost)

For one phase changes without adds:
Timed with WF perfectly: 400*1.25*2=1000
Not timed with WF perfectly: >1000 to -600

For most cases, of course, you can just simply use it so that will be guarantee 400 or 800 potency gain. Plainly not impressive for a skill with punishment., but any potency gain is good for current Machinist.

I'm sad to see that MCH is havin issues again :( it looked like they were finally catching up but I totally see how BRD comes with way more utility and still more dps. that sucks, hopefully they fix it soon because MCH looks way more fun to play now.

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Originally Posted by Lastelli

Overload damage is not compiled for WF damage. It is not supposed to be used as a dps ability to be used whenever it's available. Nevertheless it's too weak, I agree.
Also, I believe that FT shouldn't be used under normal circumstances on a single target, except for going overheat if you're missing that 10 heat for your next wildfire and only if you're barrel stabilizer will be available after the barrel off penalty is removed.

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Just tested on a dummy, and here is my battle log:

Guguulu L. uses Gauss Barrel.
Guguulu L. hits the striking dummy for 1204 damage.
Guguulu L. uses Cooldown.
 The striking dummy takes 2422 damage.
Guguulu L. uses Flamethrower.
 Guguulu L. gains the effect of Flamethrower.
Guguulu L. loses the effect of Flamethrower.
Guguulu L. hits the striking dummy for 1162 damage.
Guguulu L. uses Cooldown.
 Critical! The striking dummy takes 3519 damage

I used flame thrower during GCD and was able to get 1 tick, that is around 1k damage. But it seems that currently Battle log is still bugged. Interesting thing is, FT seems to reset CD of AA, makes me able to get 2 AA in 1 GCD. But FT is clunky and situational, you should never try this in fight if you don't feel right fit this between GCD or going overheat for this.

Edit: strikethrough added for incorrect information.

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Originally Posted by Guulu

Interesting thing is, FT seems to reset CD of AA

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it doesn't.

MCH utility stinks too.

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Originally Posted by Heimdalgc

MCH utility stinks too.

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So what do you suggest to fix it? What ideas do you have to improve the job? What would you like to see fixed or changed?

Anyone who plays the job knows what issues it has. Add something constructive instead of just complaining.

In terms of buff/debuffs... It'd be interesting to see Bard buff / remove debuffs on the party and Machinist debuff / remove buffs on enemies. It'd give machinists a nice niche and compliment bard to make them both desirable for content.

...not to mention a few tweaks to the rest of the machinist kit to put them on par with bard damage if they had those buffs.

As I said in other post...

I think the issue with properly adjusting MCH is due to the Job design in general. It depends on a 123 RNG combo when there is no ammo and depends completely on ammo to use their 123 combo. Then in between 123 skills is the other skills for weaving being Gauss Round, Heartbreak, and Ricochet.

The current design of MCH and their Heat mechanic seem to be designed to make MCH focus more on direct damage over support thus serving more as the Offensive Range Job compared to Bard being the Support Range Job.

However, design issues did pop up once players started playing the full MCH level 70 tools such as it being more ideal to only use Quick reload at 60 heat or high due to it reducing 10 heat thus preventing the loss of Overheat 123 skills (kind of prevented players from spamming Quick reload whenever they want which in 3.0/3.X MCH spammed quick reload a lot to keep up 123 combo), Overdrive just was not designed well and is more of a DPS loss than a DPS gain due to losing Turret for 30 seconds, Flamethrower is a bit weak by damage and mostly serve as a spare "Barrel Stabalizer" if Stabalizer is down, Hot Shot still remains for a extra 5% damage buff but adds on to one of the things that MCH has to manage when design wise it could have benefited from the Heat mechanic such as recharging the Hot Shot buff timer per heat instead of where it is now as a extra management, and the Overheat is just not worth using as it is more of a DPS loss if not used during the last 5% or less of a Boss HP or enemy mob HP.

Not to mention they lowered the Max Ammo from 5 to 3 which reduced MCH ability to have a option of consistent two 123 combo or only 12132(3 or 1) combo attack into having only 12132(3 or 1) combo if players want to be efficient with the 3 ammo use.

Up Hotshot to 10%.

Fold Ammunitions Potency into Gauss Round (15s per 25 for about 1.6 potency / second, then 30s for 75 for about 2.5 / second, Gauss Round at a 20second CD would be adjusted to 280 then) so that Ammunition is solely for heat management and combo set ups, so you don't 'lose' potency while building heat.

Wildfire should deal a portion of its damage in AoE. (Because no matter how much SE doesn't want us to burn down mass packs, it's going to happen)

Rook/Bishop Overload as it is needs to provide some sort of buff as losing your Turret isn't worth losing the constant damage it provides. Either increased Attack Speed, Damage, or a group wide bonus.

Cooldown used during Overheat's recovery should reduce the timer by 2.5 seconds.

Any combination of these would help greatly, I think.

Mmmm....

I'd go for flat potency increases over increasing buffs. As it stands, slug shot's potency is 25% higher than split shot, and clean shot is 20% higher than slug shot. To maintain that with nice, round numbers hSplit should be 200 pot, hSlug 250, and hClean 300. It sounds high, but those are the proc'd pots since non-proc slug and clean are only 100 pot even when heated. And, without ammo the proc rate can be frustratingly low.

Using Cooldown to speed recovery is a really good idea. It'd drop the recovery to roughly two uses of Cooldown. In addition to that, it'd be interesting to change Hot Shot to raise heat by 25 instead of 10. It works wonderfully in PVP since heating your barrel only takes the two shots. It would also make heat management a bit more punishing since you're more likely to overheat if you mess up, but it wouldn't be as much of an issue since the downtime isn't as punishing.

Most jobs build their gauge to spend it, as opposed to MCH constantly juggling its gauge levels. Why not allow for a high potency spender? An alternative to the Wildfire dance, perhaps a beam ability usable once overheated. You can either use your Overheated status to fire the beam (immediately triggering the cooldown phase), or utilize the 10% damage increase (should be higher to make it more worthwhile). The benefit of this is Overheating still has a use in an area where perhaps a target or opportune moment won't last long enough to utilize Wildfire.

Yea MCH is just a bit janky or weak