Against "Simultaneous Logout Measures"

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Originally Posted by Hezkezl

Look... I understand that the servers are being hammered with players clamoring to get in and play. But this won't solve the problem. If a server can hold a maximum of 10000 people online at one time, and there are 12000 people trying to log in, then there's going to be 2000 people left out in the rain looking in, even with this ingenious solution. Doing this forced logout will not fix the problem. Right now you're hoping that 2000 other players will get bored and logout during the day so that the 2000 left sitting out in the rain can come inside and get dry for a bit. That's been your "solution" for this problem for a years now, and it doesn't work. Players don't want to go outside and get wet, they'd rather force themselves to stay indoors. So your wise solution to this problem, is to kick everybody to the curb and force them to stand out in the rain for 10 minutes, before allowing 10k random people to get back in.

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Let me add to your statement.

Let's use your numbers. 10k allowed, 12k trying to get in. Now what happens if there are 2k in the server afking when this happens? *That* is what this is designed to fix.

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Originally Posted by HyperSMB

It will be annoying, but you will have an HOUR advance notice and it will only last ten minutes. It isn't a big deal at all. It really is a non-issue.

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Will it really be a non-issue though for DPS that sit in a DPS queue for over an hour hoping to make it into a duty before the timer kicks everyone?
I waited 75 minutes tonight for Expert Roulette. 75. Minutes. At 11pm my time (CST), so not even peak hours for NA servers. Meaning even if I attempted to queue in before the announcement, I would have still been in queue when it was announced AND probably when everyone was kicked, effectively restarting my DPS queue. Which, at that point, I probably wouldn't even bother--Verity be damned.

You know, after I sit in a log-in queue for several additional minutes after the kick timer resets.
Cactuar RARELY has queues (I don't count the silly ones of 20 people, because I can just hit "Cancel" and still make it in when I try again). The exception to our queues were the first few days of Early Access, and then it tapered off. Smaller servers don't even HAVE queues. Why punish all the servers for the few that are still so overcrowded, they're having these issues?

Quite frankly, this is a completely ridiculous measure.

People react as if the forced logout will happen during peak hours, which would cause long queues as everybody tries to log on again afterwards.
That seems unlikely to happen.
The forced logout will most likely happen during early morning or some other time when few people play. Then people will log on as they normally do in the evening spreading out the logins.

I.e. most players will likely not even notice this happening except for login queues being slightly shorter.

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Originally Posted by Rita1989

They couldn't just patch put the way the afk timer works?

It says just a data center so it will probably be Aether only that is effected unless other data centers have the same issue

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Chaos is having the issues too

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Originally Posted by alimdia

Except no login queue takes hours in any server other than Balmung, so there's no need to do this on every server other than Balmung.

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A complete lie. Cerberus sometimes has 2k+ Ques which take 2 hours.

Everyone who complains about this. Go and thank the people who sit afk while crafting or interacting with an npc to avoid being logged out. Those people are the problems

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Originally Posted by NoxLumina

It's not those 10 minutes that annoy me, it's the inevitable 2 hour queue that I don't wanna sit through after the wipe every day.

Also Hyper I hope this will apply to Odin because I don't see many afk Crafters at all ;D
I'm not blind to the good this will do but holy Christ am I not looking forward to the queues.
Not to mention instances still crash when Ixion is up, some good servers we have right there

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You dont seem to udnerstand that when all the AFK's are gone there will only be a que to log people back in, not a que that waits for people to log out. Loggin 3k people in, probably in waves, will take a few minutes.

Waiting for 3k people to log out takes hours.

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Originally Posted by Baci

Everyone who complains about this. Go and thank the people who sit afk while crafting or interacting with an npc to avoid being logged out. Those people are the problems

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But didn't you know? Apparently every single one is on Balmung! /sarcasm

maybe if people would actually log off instead of sitting afk while in a crafting window they wouldn't have to do this?

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Originally Posted by Ignnis

You realise that there will be queues getting online because of the amount of people trying to simultaneously get online? This could cause more issues, data centre crashes etc, I really don't know how i feel about this measure....

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The server will be empty. The queue will process ridiculously fast on account of there being space for you to log into. The current queue problems exist because there isn't space on the server. If this forced kick frees up even 200 places, its an improvement over the existing problems.

Of course there might be problems. There might be longer queues. There might be crashes. Thismight make things worse.
But if we're so paranoid that we'd turn away from a potential solution for fear of what might happen, We'll never find a solution that actually works.

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Originally Posted by Alaina

maybe if people would actually log off instead of sitting afk while in a crafting window they wouldn't have to do this?

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Maybe if they just created a function that would detect if an action was taken, even if in a craft or talking to a NPC within a 30 minute timer, they wouldn't have to do this? If someone hasn't pressed a single button in a craft for over 30 minutes it's clear they're not actually crafting.

There is zero excuse for this band-aid attempt at "fixing" people abusing AFK timer. I don't know why I keep seeing people trying to justify it.

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

Let me add to your statement.

Let's use your numbers. 10k allowed, 12k trying to get in. Now what happens if there are 2k in the server afking when this happens? *That* is what this is designed to fix.

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What if those 2k people afking aren't really afking, and there are actually 10k people playing?

It won't solve anything except switch who is pissed off at not being able to log in, and even then there's a good chance that the same people will be pissed off the whole time because they can't log in.

SE's next step to "ensure that players can get in and play" might be something like raffling off login spots somehow.. a lottery system for who can play the game that day or not. If they do that, then I'm absolutely done.

They need to upgrade their infrastructure to accommodate the people who want to get in and play. Not force people to sit in timeout because they're incapable of designing a game.

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Originally Posted by MistakeNot

People react as if the forced logout will happen during peak hours, which would cause long queues as everybody tries to log on again afterwards.
That seems unlikely to happen.
The forced logout will most likely happen during early morning or some other time when few people play. Then people will log on as they normally do in the evening spreading out the logins.

I.e. most players will likely not even notice this happening except for login queues being slightly shorter.

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Perhaps it won't affect this, but for us DPS mains that already sit in hour-long queues each day (and not even in peak hours) having to basically not queue for anything when the announcement dings, wait 10 minutes after we're forcefully kicked to get back in (quite possibly still dealing with a player queue), and then queuing up for our hour-long queues, it's going to be an extreme annoyance.

I have plenty to do while I wait in a queue (I get my gathering down while queuing), but not everyone gathers in this game, and not everyone has hours upon hours to play. We don't know when the forced log out will be, and it very well may end up during a period of time that screws with some players because it's the only time they can play. It's unfair for SE to punish all the other servers just because they decided 2 weeks prior to SB launch (rather than sooner) to try and get Balmung's population under control.

Anyways hopefully after a couple days people stop AFKing and it will no longer be necessary the queue on Balmung was basically the same as 3.0 but 4x longer and getting worse everyday today was the breaking point I am guessing as on Balmung this afternoon the queue was at like 400 and still took hours to get in due to so many AFKers

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Originally Posted by Baci

Everyone who complains about this. Go and thank the people who sit afk while crafting or interacting with an npc to avoid being logged out. Those people are the problems

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No, they're not. SE is the problem here. We have them to thank for these problems because of their lack of foresight that their game might be popular enough with players that their artificial restrictions become a hinderance.

This very FORUM has made posts asking Square-Enix to do EXACTLY THIS.... And now everyone seems upset that they actually listened.

What a time to be alive.

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Originally Posted by Hezkezl

No, they're not. SE is the problem here. We have them to thank for these problems because of their lack of foresight that their game might be popular enough with players that their artificial restrictions become a hinderance.

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It's SE's fault people abuse the system? How interesting.

This is a terribly backward solution to a problem that could of been fixed by simply adjusting the forced log out measures. Instead, we are probably possibly going to have launch day ques every day for a couple hours, if you're on a high pop server. It's like they hate Balmung. I'm not happy about this decision, but maybe it will make more people move to other servers in frustration.

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Originally Posted by Beatrice

This very FORUM has made posts asking Square-Enix to do EXACTLY THIS.... And now everyone seems upset that they actually listened.

What a time to be alive.

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Unless you can look into the post history of the grand majority of posters, including myself, this is flat out not true.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

This is a terribly backward solution to a problem that could of been fixed by simply adjusting the forced log out measures. Instead, we are probably possibly going to have launch day ques every day for a couple hours, if you're on a high pop server. It's like they hate Balmung. I'm not happy about this decision, but maybe it will make more people move to other servers in frustration.

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Just saying, the people use crafting are taking advantage of a change crafters asked for, since being logged out mid-synth lost all your supplies with no hope of getting them back. They changed it so that it wouldn't log them out as a means to make things better.

Then people took advantage of it.

Well, they will only make things worse with this new measure. The queues are bad enough as is, but forcibly logging everyone out and shoving literal tens of thousands back into a queue after a ten minute time-frame across an entire bloody data center is not the solution they should look to be implementing. This is just ridiculous, plain and simple and I really do hope it blows up in their faces in the most negative way possible, especially when the queues that exist after the forced boot will be nearly impossible to get through on larger servers because the worlds will max out almost instantly.

I'm sure that it will be just before raid time, to annoy players as much as possible

Can we not just wait and see? My gawd it is like WHM changes all over again. Yes it might be terrible. But it might not be. Judge it when you can truely judge it, in action.

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Originally Posted by Elvin

I'm sure that it will be just before raid time, to annoy players as much as possible

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Yes, because SE will be sure to coordinate with every single raider to find the perfect time.

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Originally Posted by Beatrice

This very FORUM has made posts asking Square-Enix to do EXACTLY THIS.... And now everyone seems upset that they actually listened.

What a time to be alive.

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I don't recall EVER seeing a SINGLE post on here demanding SE do a mass kick of ENTIRE DATA CENTERS due to a few people circumventing the (temporary) AFK kick timer.

People asked for them to patch the timer so as it would kick those who were AFK crafting/talking to an NPC. Not kick EVERYONE who is actually playing the game.

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Originally Posted by Kaelah

Can we not just wait and see? My gawd it is like WHM changes all over again. Yes it might be terrible. But it might not be. Judge it when you can truely judge it, in action.

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While I can't speak for everyone, I think I can say there are a lot of people that are frustrated with SE already due to all the Duty Finder/Solo Instance crap that went on during Early Access, to the way SE is supposedly handling these ongoing issues (because I keep hearing reports of DF still acting up), how they're supposedly handling this "massive DDoS Attack" they're (again, supposedly) experiencing, and just with some of their decisions in general. So I think a lot of this indignation wouldn't be as bad if we had not already dealt with so much garbage since Stormblood's EA launch.

My question is are we 100% positive AFK abusers are the issue and not just the server being overpopulated? Also why does this have to affect small servers at all? The longest wait I ever saw on Exodus was about 1000 after server wide disconnects during SB launch. I understand it is worse on big servers but smaller servers shouldn't be subjected to this as well.

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Originally Posted by Kaelah

Can we not just wait and see? My gawd it is like WHM changes all over again. Yes it might be terrible. But it might not be. Judge it when you can truely judge it, in action.

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Or it could be like the tank changes and a total disaster like all the tank players like to say they are.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

I don't recall EVER seeing a SINGLE post on here demanding SE do a mass kick of ENTIRE DATA CENTERS due to a few people circumventing the (temporary) AFK kick timer.

People asked for them to patch the timer so as it would kick those who were AFK crafting/talking to an NPC. Not kick EVERYONE who is actually playing the game.

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Actually I do remember a post where someone suggested exactly this. I do not care to go searching for it though. It's in one of those queue complaints threads.

Bullshit !

We transfered to one of your new server and now we have hours queue too because of you stupid idea to offer 2 weeks free for players reaching lvl 30 on a new server !
The low lvl zones are crowed with people farming to get that free time, remove that instead of your stupid idea, no more congestions !

Clearely won't take new sub and go to other MMO instead

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Originally Posted by Kaelah

Can we not just wait and see? My gawd it is like WHM changes all over again. Yes it might be terrible. But it might not be. Judge it when you can truely judge it, in action.

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Very much true.
Its most likely to happen during the day, where people mostly afk.
Its not going to happen during prime time.
Its probably making things better.

Check wether the world is really shaped like a banana before claiming its flat.

And what about having log in queues per server instead of per data center ? Wait...

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Originally Posted by Xeronia

My question is are we 100% positive AFK abusers are the issue and not just the server being overpopulated? Also why does this have to affect small servers at all? The longest wait I ever saw on Exodus was about 1000 after server wide disconnects during SB launch. I understand it is worse on big servers but smaller servers shouldn't be subjected to this as well.

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On Balmung at least it's 100% AFK abusers and every day it's been getting worse and worse because more people are getting fed up of them and doing it themselves.

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Originally Posted by Kaelah

Actually I do remember a post where someone suggested exactly this. I do not care to go searching for it though. It's in one of those queue complaints threads.

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Yep, there is a post like that.


But it wasn't a massive demand of the forum...

Anyway, it's a solution that is addopted by many private servers, because they don't have the knowledge to create a proper anti-afk setup. Never would have guessed that SE would be on the same boat.

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Originally Posted by Aniya_Estlihn

Well, they will only make things worse with this new measure. The queues are bad enough as is, but forcibly logging everyone out and shoving literal tens of thousands back into a queue after a ten minute time-frame across an entire bloody data center is not the solution they should look to be implementing. This is just ridiculous, plain and simple and I really do hope it blows up in their faces in the most negative way possible, especially when the queues that exist after the forced boot will be nearly impossible to get through on larger servers because the worlds will max out almost instantly.

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This post is a little extreme. Why would you want something to fail horribly and make everyone around have the worst possible outcome? not that big of deal lol. let's just wait and see.

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Originally Posted by Ilenya

It's SE's fault people abuse the system? How interesting.

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SE is the one who put these restrictions into place. SE is the one with such bad servers that the restrictions are needed in the first place. SE is the one who advertised the heck out of this game and was seemingly caught completely unprepared for how many people wanted to play it.

So yes, SE is at fault for players not wanting to stand outside in the rain because they only built the room big enough to hold 300 people. Their solution to that is to kick everybody out for 10 minutes, then let random people back in. Do you have it in you to forsee the possibility that there will most likely be people not able to log in to play the game, even after this ingenious idea?

This is not a guarantee that people can play. It's a bandaid on a leg that needs amputating because it's long-since turned gangrenous.

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Originally Posted by Elvin

Yep, there is a post like that.


But it wasn't a massive demand of the forum...

Anyway, it's a solution that is addopted by many private servers, because they don't have the knowledge to create a proper anti-afk setup. Never would have guessed that SE would be on the same boat.

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I imagine the issue is conflicting things. In regards to crafting, I would imagine they might be able to set up a timer where a synth has to finish in a certain amount of time else it ends automatically. Give it lots of leeway for long macro strings, but not so long to be abusable.

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Originally Posted by Hezkezl

SE is the one who put these restrictions into place. SE is the one with such bad servers that the restrictions are needed in the first place. SE is the one who advertised the heck out of this game and was seemingly caught completely unprepared for how many people wanted to play it.

So yes, SE is at fault for players not wanting to stand outside in the rain because they only built the room big enough to hold 300 people. Their solution to that is to kick everybody out for 10 minutes, then let random people back in. Do you have it in you to forsee the possibility that there will most likely be people not able to log in to play the game, even after this ingenious idea?

This is not a guarantee that people can play. It's a bandaid on a leg that needs amputating because it's long-since turned gangrenous.

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Allow me to point out I am on Balmung and have dealt with the majority of the queue issues, and yet I'm still not blaming SE for PLAYERS abusing systems. Were there other ways to do this? Possibly, but things like that are unlikely to be doable quickly. A simple system to work with it until it stops being an issue would work fine in the short term, especially if they are looking into other methods for long term (Read: 5.0) issues.

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Originally Posted by Beatrice

This very FORUM has made posts asking Square-Enix to do EXACTLY THIS.... And now everyone seems upset that they actually listened.

What a time to be alive.

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Here is a thought, what if posts that suggested this to SE are not the same people posting here? What if this Forum were not a single-minded beast, but consists of individuals.
Hopefully you can now understand how it is possible for posts with contradictions views, to exist within the same forum

Is it too much to ask for the people who are up in arms about this and throwing out statements like "this is enough to make me quit" to actually follow through on their tantrums and quit? It would help alleviate the login queues.

Anyone remember how the server relocation was going to kill the game? Anyone remember how 200ms is unplayable? Hey look we're all still playing. This TEMPORARY measure will hopefully stop several hundred or thousand people from hogging login slots whilst they're at work/sleeping.

This won't solve anything, it will make it even worse for the following reasons:

1 - it creates queues in servers that had NONE
2 - it creates a login server DDoS from all the people trying to log back in as soon as the servers are open again (if not even before then)

People that plant themselves on the bells will STILL plant themselves on the bells because it's just once every 24 HOURS. So the only people really affected are the ones actively playing already.

In 15 years of playing MMOs I have never seen a company employ such a stupid measure. Congrats SE, you are truly unique.

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Originally Posted by Xeronia

My question is are we 100% positive AFK abusers are the issue and not just the server being overpopulated? Also why does this have to affect small servers at all? The longest wait I ever saw on Exodus was about 1000 after server wide disconnects during SB launch. I understand it is worse on big servers but smaller servers shouldn't be subjected to this as well.

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A bit of both I think. Several servers are overpopulated, and then AFK abusers make things even worse.