You healers need to stop

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Originally Posted by iluvOP

No, healers NEED to do DPS. A healer that doesn't DPS is a worthless healer.
However, tanks should try to wait a few seconds before each pull so WHM for example can have their mana back. Trust me, its much faster that way. If they don't learn how to DPS and manage mana in general, nobody wants them in their raid groups and such.

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Youre trunk or totaly has no clue how healer works! ->Healers<- DONT need to DPS! Healers that dont DPS are good healers!

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

I just did the 61 dungeon and it was like, no prob. O__o Not really sure what the issue is here; I didn't see any pulls or bosses that really would give a lot of trouble even if the healer wasn't a veteran like I am.

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You start to see a huge jump in bardem the level 65 dungeon, those mobs hit like freight trains lol and they are usually in packs of four

there is always time for a WHM to dps hell I wish my AST could get thin air because If I try to pull a WHM I would be OOM so I do my three little gravitys and a coupe melefics and call it a day and continue healing lol

It's the 65 dungeon where things ramp up. Trash can rock your world if you're not ready for it, and the last boss does a lot of damage that you've got to be ready for. I healed and DPSed and healed for 61 and 63, but I was kept legit busy in 65. Was quite glad I had just gotten Divine Benison.

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

I just did the 61 dungeon and it was like, no prob. O__o Not really sure what the issue is here; I didn't see any pulls or bosses that really would give a lot of trouble even if the healer wasn't a veteran like I am.

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You start to see a huge jump in bardem the level 65 dungeon, those mobs hit like freight trains lol and they are usually in packs of four

there is always time for a WHM to dps hell I wish my AST could get thin air because If I try to pull a WHM I would be OOM so I do my three little gravitys and a coupe melefics and call it a day and continue healing lol

We WHMs focus on DPS so much because we have nothing else to offer.
What can we say? We don't have a super powerful balance card, or a CRIT buff. We have stone, and we have Holy. Let us at least LOOK like we're useful.

I haven't level'd my healers yet, therefore I am not sure about their new abilities, however I wish I would be running with these kind of healers. I find myself in dungeons, were the healers are struggling, and I mean really struggling.

They didn't even attempt to dps, yet they are spam pressing their buttons, and the tank goes lower on health by the second, having to use their HG, LD and what not. To a point were I can only feel absolute sorry for the healer, because I am pretty sure he/she isn't enjoying these dungeons.

I then double cast vercure, in most cases it even heals more then their actual cure/physick, and believe it or not a second later, we are back at tanks hp being 1% and having no cool downs available anymore or healers having no mp.

While I do like getting 3+ com's at the end of these runs as a dps, I can just imaging how bad the healer itself must have felt or is close of rage quitting. Maybe it's a SB thing, maybe it's healers that started with HW and are not used to having to actual pay attention lol

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Originally Posted by JisKing98

So i im doing these 61-70 dungeons trying to level up and go through story, I notice in these dungeon ya healers love dpsing (mainly whm i noticed) but fail to realize ya mp is is super low so when these mobs, who hit like a truck, bring the party to less than 20% you guys can't heal us resulting in a wipe. Happen to me and others so many times. Listen, i know ya loving the fact that your damage is tied to mind now but ya need to remember ya are still healers.

* Flame shield activated*

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Did you die though? No? Then the Healer is doing their job. You don't need to be at 100% health at all times.

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

Healers that dont DPS are good healers!

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And a terrible party member.
You should always DPS when you can. Especially WHM with Holy. The stun from holy keeps your tank from taking quite a fair bit of damage.

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

Youre trunk or totaly has no clue how healer works! ->Healers<- DONT need to DPS! Healers that dont DPS are good healers!

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Same thing I say to every healer that says anything like this - what do you do with the other 50-80% of your time/GCD's in a normal dungeon run? Sure AST has cards to manage but even they can't keep busy without DPS getting done a little bit.

At the very least you can't call that kind of play "good".

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

->Healers<- DONT need to DPS! Healers that dont DPS are good healers!

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What game are you playing were you're basing that off of? Because it's definitely not FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

Youre trunk or totaly has no clue how healer works! ->Healers<- DONT need to DPS! Healers that dont DPS are good healers!

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As a healer main since 2.0, I can tell you a healer that doesn't do more than just heal is terrible.
Think of this. Holy is one the most iconic spells in the entire FF series. A healer has it and it's a DPS spell. Hmmmm, it's almost as if they expected you to DPS with it.

Regen tank/assylum

Holy+aero3+holy+holy+assize. (You can through swiftcast on one of those holy and use thin air, but even without thin air this still works fine for dungeon mobs)

Back to healing

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Originally Posted by Katryn

The trouble is that when someone dies in a group it is the healer's fault until proven otherwise. And proving otherwise is almost always harder than blaming the healer. The DPS issue just adds another route for blame to ensue.

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This is where you get just a tiny bit jerky and lay down the law.

Healer: "Stop standing in stupid shit and you wouldn't be dying."
DPS (or Tank): "Just heal me through it! You're a healer!"
Healer: "No. And if you don't like it, please kick me and enjoy waiting 30 minutes for another healer."

I'll hazard a guess they think better of standing in aoes when you remind them of their queue.

As a tank, I don't mind if they DPS. Just keep us above 20% and I'll be happy.

https://static.superdeluxe.com/dankl...is-is-bait.jpg

Guys you're supposed to ignore the bait, not dive in headfirst.

What I've found to work nicely is opening with a holy for a stun, apply aero3, tank has taken dmg by then so i cure2 for a guaranteed lily (assuming I have none) and benison the tank followed with a regen. Assize, then Holy again, dot every mob I can, tetra tank if needed and holy some more. I refresh aero3 as needed but things are usually dead by then. Tank stays healthy and things keep dying.

I will say I find I am using more cure2's since I basically bension the tank every time its off cooldown. It gives me more time to dps. MP isn't a problem unless I'm spamming holy more than I should without Thin Air, but its rare I have a tank that isnt getting pounded like crazy right now. I'm sure that will change as people finish tricking out their 310/320 gears. Plenary Indulgence still sucks.

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Originally Posted by Meghann

Poor healers, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

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So much this, echoes my sentiments exactly.

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Originally Posted by tinythinker

I Aero in your general direction...

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LMAO great quote

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Originally Posted by JisKing98

* Flame shield activated*

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did you ever think about thats the healer only run out MP because you are doing not enough dps to kill them fast enough before healer gets into MP trouble?

regards hobbit

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Originally Posted by SmallHobbit

did you ever think about thats the healer only run out MP because you are doing not enough dps to kill them fast enough before healer gets into MP trouble?

regards hobbit

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I had a Ninja and BLM in Kugane Castle the other day, not only did they get hit with every branch on the tree (stood in anything they could find) and died atleast twice per boss. They also both had a combined DPS of like 2 so i was like the only source of damage for the party besides the tank. The poor bosses were alive so long they didn't even know what phase they were in anymore lol. Sure MP got a little tight but i still managed just fine with the DPS only dying to Avoidable damage (getting hit with overlapping AOEs REALLY?!)

If the DPS and tanks have so much free time that they're watching the healer like hawks to judge how they play rather than doing their own jobs like actual team members, it's no wonder the healer feels pressured to make mistakes. Sheesh.

Also, if all of these DPS are so skilled at backseat healing, maybe they can queue as healers themselves and show us all how it's done?

The anti-healer hysteria on these forums is something else.

I love healer who heals and I hate healer who dps and I am dead tank

Wait, didn't we just have a thread about how queues were so bad because there aren't enough healers and tanks to go around? This seems counterproductive in that case.

In the dungeons I've run, we've never wiped once from a healer DPSing. Heck, the only time we've wiped at all (outside of a couple boss fights where people didn't know the mechanics) was from tanks charging through and grabbing larger packs than their gear could handle.

Just play a healer if you don't like the way they play ^^"

Things may be different for me as Im still doing the MSQ, but the healers Ive had in my party were fantastic (PUG). I honestly dont mind them dps'ing as long as everyone has a general idea on how to play their roles. The healers I got paired with would DPS until someone got to 50% health (which is fine by me) and no one has ever died.

Don't have to worry about this with me healing. I do not DPS, I am a healer there to keep people alive not do damage. If I want to DPS I will play a DPS job.

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Originally Posted by Bixillarla

Don't have to worry about this with me healing. I do not DPS, I am a healer there to keep people alive not do damage. If I want to DPS I will play a DPS job.

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Oh no... Saying that here might have been a misstep, Hide!! D:

Even the healers are getting judgy!

I DPS when I'm bored (which is often, because of healer design) or when I'm feeling confident. I heal when people need to be healed. It all seems to work ok so long as the enemies are dying and my allies are not.

Sorry, can't hear you over the awesome sound effect of Gravity.

Usually how it works is that I stop dps'ing when the tank chain pulls like crazy, and that's actually when I go bone dry on MP, causing the tank to die and I get blamed for the tank being made out of paper when they think they can steamroll everything. Now if tanks did simple single-group pulls, then HoTs or bubbles are just enough to keep them alive so then I can dps in a circumstance far less stressful so I can manage my MP better, and because it's smaller groups with more people doing damage, things die faster and thus the run usually goes a bit faster and substantially smoother.

Now this could be blamed on tanks, except I leveled a tank first and ONLY tried to do single pulls only to have antsy dps players wanting me to pull more and then go off and pull more only for me to have my cooldowns barely do anything with how hard these mobs hit and ultimately cause a wipe with me getting blamed because of being too squishy even after popping two or three cooldowns and not being able to use Clemency because I'd lose all those mobs if I stop spamming Flash even for a second.

That's why I main a Red Mage now. Vercure and Verraise to help healers when tanks or other dps decide to be stupid, and steadily controlling enmity management to help tanks (at least I try anyway....).

Huh. I've been having the opposite problem. I've been having healers that sit still staring at the walls when I'm taking negligible damage rather than try to be productive and attack.
At moments like those, I just drop tank stance and forego cooldowns - what's the point if the healers are just sitting there doing nothing?

How does an entire team get to 20% on trash mobs anyway? Were you keeping aggro? :)

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Originally Posted by Bixillarla

Don't have to worry about this with me healing. I do not DPS, I am a healer there to keep people alive not do damage. If I want to DPS I will play a DPS job.

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Can you be my healer?

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Originally Posted by Medicine

Oh no... Saying that here might have been a misstep, Hide!! D:

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Why hide? That's not the job of healers, that's the job of ninjas!

You should never engage combat as ninja. Remain hidden, observe your group as they fight and wait for the right moment to Shukuchi in and strike.

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Originally Posted by Odstarva

Huh. I've been having the opposite problem. I've been having healers that sit still staring at the walls when I'm taking negligible damage rather than try to be productive and attack.
At moments like those, I just drop tank stance and forego cooldowns - what's the point if the healers are just sitting there doing nothing?

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I've run into tanks that are paper thin lately, so I'm way more careful than usual about doing DPS in the new dungeons/raids. More often than not the tanks I get end up below 50% HP after the mobs hit them a couple of times and I end up having a yo-yo battle with their HP bar (I also never see them using any cool-downs when they pull multiple packs >__>). So, yeah, that could be why you see less healers DPSing lately. Not to mention some ppl are adjusting to having to manage their MP bar more.

If healers have time to dps then they have time for mass pull "procees to mass pull!!!!"

My favorite kind of player is the tank that thinks if they're not 100% HP the healer is bad. In my opinion if you're playing a tank and you're not comfortable with dropping that low, you need to swap to another job because you're only dragging your group down moreso than if the healer wasn't dpsing.

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Originally Posted by Janhyua

If healers have time to dps then they have time for mass pull "procees to mass pull!!!!"

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yes please, since dpsing only really starts working for WHM when you pull big. spamming Holy / Aero 3 / Assize is a waste for only 3 mobs. please pull at least 6 mobs or otherwise i am falling asleep since i don't have anything to heal or dps in these small pulls.

if you don't fear for your deaths every moment then the WHM still only use half their tools.

i was in expert roulette this morning and the PLD was doing the smallest pulls possible and when he dropped under 50% life he instantly started to healing himself with clemency. what was he expecting me to do? staying there doing nothing for the whole run?

Life as a healer: Playing chicken with the HP bars!

Always remember, 1 > 0.

Also, the rate at which some people seem to wipe... makes this game seem more like Dark Souls than the Hello Kitty it usually is.

Who tf is running out of MP on WHM now?
Thin Air => Holy Spam is love and I honestly cannot see how people don't have enough MP to still heal.
This sounds more like people aren't dodging when they're suppose to because there is absolutely no way DPS are getting down to 20% health on trash pulls unless they're standing in stupid and Rescue can only save stupid so many times.

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Originally Posted by Tint

i was in expert roulette this morning and the PLD was doing the smallest pulls possible and when he dropped under 50% life he instantly started to healing himself with clemency. what was he expecting me to do? staying there doing nothing for the whole run?

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What I will say is that I used to be a bit irked by PLDs that used Clemency (I assumed they thought I wasn't doing my job correctly) until I ran Violent Tides with my FC the other day. The PLD used Clemency and I actually said 'he's fine though' on Discord and my friend basically said that he was using it so that I have more time to DPS ^^ Just something to consider =)