I quit

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Originally Posted by MomoOG

All you tanks quiting? Excellent. Means my queue time will remain instant!

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Right? I'm a warrior here, and I absolutely love the instaqueues. :D If it continues, I will be able to get all three tanks to 70 no probs ;)

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Originally Posted by MomoOG

All you tanks quiting? Excellent. Means my queue time will remain instant!

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This

/10char

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Originally Posted by Areic

Tanks feel fine to me. Sure paladins are overtuned a bit at the moment but that doesn't mean warrior/DRK is garbo. Especially for the current extremes you can bring whatever tank you what. Just wait to see any 4.1 changes/whats viable for omega

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Stole a warriors Aggro 5 times yesterday in a dungeon with aoe damage.

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Originally Posted by Araxes

Stole a warriors Aggro 5 times yesterday in a dungeon with aoe damage.

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That fully depends on the DPS doing the damage, if theyre using their enemity loss ability or hitting too soon before they can overpower (which happens way too much), and on the tank and if he/she is using their aggro holds often enough. That has less to do with the changes and more to do with the players, for that was even an issue in 2.0....3.0.... some things never change :)

Bye now. Something something Felicia and all that.

So if I understand this people are quitting because they don't like how tanks have been changed? I redid a tank on a server recently and the changes (while some are disappointing) don't really seem to change much about how tanking is played. Overpower is still the best option for 3+ enemies on a warrior and DRK is still hard hitting. Is it for the new content that everyone is mad?

I feel like humans have really destroyed our ability to adapt to situations. It's almost non-existant anymore.

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Originally Posted by Vejitta

And how they made WAR better MT exactly? We didn't get a single defensive ability in this expansion? :D
If you mean that they boosted dmg on IB and Defiance, I would say they had no choice considering they reverted attack power for tanks back to STR...

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There's no more opportunity cost for utilizing Vengeance/Raw Intuition for their defensive capabilities instead of burning them for stacks. Also with a full gauge and Infuriate up if you don't have any other CDs available you can chain 3 Inner Beasts for 18s of uptime of one of our mitigation tools. With Intervention and The Blackest Night PLD/DRK can help mitigate in the OT role and PLDs damage has been increased so much that those two jobs actually now bring something to the OT role where previously WAR brought so much more to the OT role than they did that, while WARs were always good MTs, they were more often than not shoehorned into the OT.

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Originally Posted by Revanslave

I feel like humans have really destroyed our ability to adapt to situations. It's almost non-existant anymore.

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Adapting is easy, enjoying it is a whole different matter. And are we not here to enjoy a video game?

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Originally Posted by MomoOG

All you tanks quiting? Excellent. Means my queue time will remain instant!

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To be fair, was there ever ANY danger of it NOT being instant?

As for the changes, I'm not at cap with any tanks, and WAR feels meh AF right now, but I'm liking the feel of DRK thus far.

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Originally Posted by Dement

There's no more opportunity cost for utilizing Vengeance/Raw Intuition for their defensive capabilities instead of burning them for stacks.

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I'm sorry, but if 3.x MT Warrior used Vengeance and/or Raw Intuition for stacks, there was clearly something very wrong with him...

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Originally Posted by Dement

Also with a full gauge and Infuriate up if you don't have any other CDs available you can chain 3 Inner Beasts for 18s of uptime of one of our mitigation tools.

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Fair enough, although this looks very far-stretched, considering that WAR will rather use gauge for Unchained and Upheaval if is MT single target and SC spam if tanking group.

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Originally Posted by Dement

With Intervention and The Blackest Night PLD/DRK can help mitigate in the OT role and PLDs damage has been increased so much that those two jobs actually now bring something to the OT role where previously WAR brought so much more to the OT role than they did that, while WARs were always good MTs, they were more often than not shoehorned into the OT.

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I agree that DRK and PLD now bring some utility as OT, but they bring it also as MT. WAR bring nothing as OT, so in the end PLD/DRK or PLD/PLD becomes much better option.

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Originally Posted by Vejitta

I'm sorry, but if 3.x MT Warrior used Vengeance and/or Raw Intuition for stacks, there was clearly something very wrong with him...

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You needed to burn either vengeance or raw int for the triple fell cleave combo. 30% damage mitigation is more valuable for a tank buster than guaranteed parries, so you used raw int for that extra stack.

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Originally Posted by RichardButte

To be fair, was there ever ANY danger of it NOT being instant?

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Underrated post.

Tank community was always small, it got smaller yesterday and if this continues on it will be smaller tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by Mnemosynia

Underrated post.

Tank community was always small, it got smaller yesterday and if this continues on it will be smaller tomorrow.

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meh, i wouldnt take any bet about this. Alot People started leveling tanks now they were DPS before, the Forum community is probably less then 5% of the Playerbase, I am pretty sure that we also got new Players to the Game which doesnt care about the state of the Game in HW or ARR. I main Tank (DRK) and i enjoy the Gameplay, my GF started Tanking now as a WAR and she loves it (67 Now). Just because the Playstyle changed and Tanks arent supposed to be DPS whores anymore wont destroy the Game in first Place.

Sure the Forum War community is pissed about the changes, but we will see more PLDs now. Life has to go on, take it or leave it i guess. Thats the circle of MMORPGs, if Blizzard isnt in the position to Balance every Class and made them nearly equal, how do you think SE should handle this lol.

I guess the Tank community will remain at the Same Size and the Queue times for DPS will remain as it is now and like it was in HW. ARR times with 2 hours waiting time will probably not going to happen.

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Originally Posted by Mnemosynia

Underrated post.

Tank community was always small, it got smaller yesterday and if this continues on it will be smaller tomorrow.

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...I thought you quit. Why are you still posting?

I feel like DRK defensive kit needs to be reviewed. We lost 2 defense skills to role actions.

PLD is the only tank that didn't lose it's built in stun to role actions. And can block magic damage.

I can't believe how bad the queues have become and how many tank players quit

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Originally Posted by DJMau

...I thought you quit. Why are you still posting?

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Still had game time before sub expires. Why u being a jerk?

* he prolly still has gametime

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Originally Posted by P4X0R10N

Still had game time before sub expires. Why u being a jerk?

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It's not really being a jerk, just pointing out a hyprocrisy. If you quit a game you stop dealing with it entirely. Logging in, forums, everything. You don't stick around and continue to post. They're not going anywhere, just fishing for attention

It's just a human habit. I continued to read forums for games I no longer played in hopes of seeing news that the changes I was hoping for would materialize. When it didn't after some time, I eventually hot bored and really quit as in stopped thinking about it at all.

Maybe he didn't quit as you say.

He's in the process of quiting.

And I don't know if he's fishing for attention. I think he's just venting cuz he's disappointed.

Need to get it out and get some closure maybe...like breaking up with a gf...lol....

Addictions... hard to go cold turkey = p

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Originally Posted by DJMau

It's not really being a jerk, just pointing out a hyprocrisy. If you quit a game you stop dealing with it entirely. Logging in, forums, everything. You don't stick around and continue to post. They're not going anywhere, just fishing for attention

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Posting to show support for getting changes is probably a good idea if they want changes to happen so they can return to the game?

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Originally Posted by Kazukiyashuo

crying crying crying all day. Noone cares of your drama . I play my DRK and i like it a lot . If u dont like it play something else or quit . Still noone cares . Not to mention DRK is top dps compared to tanks

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I care; also doesn't Dark Knight have the lowest DPS requirement for Susano EX SSS?

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme..._requirements/

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Originally Posted by Roan023

Why is everyone complaining about tank changes more towards actually tanking? This really makes no sense. It's called a tank for a reason. If you want big numbers play a dps maybe? Thanks for the instant Ques. Oh it's dumbed down? It's was easy before and still is now. Stance dancing? You found fun in trying to maximize your dps while tanking. Cool well it's over now. Stop crying and posting wasted space forum posts. Take your lowly 12.99 to Elder scrolls online so you can dps tank.

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Rude much? The changes made created a problem with AoE aggro management that is only going to get worse, and it isn't something that you can fix with more skill, it just forces you use just spam enmity skills mindlessly. Tanking mechanics were as easy as they were before, the thing that changed was just how many enmity skills we had to use and that amount will go up was ilvl increases due to the damage gap that is created from Tanks getting no damage from their accessories while DPS's do. It just became more difficult in a numbers sense rather than an issue of skill. Tanks optimized DPS due to how easy the Tanking mechanics were and the Tanking Mechanics haven't seen much if any real changes; they just remained the same while an aggro generation issue occured with the changes.

It isn't just the English community wanting changes either; the Japanese community also wants changes. When you talk into account how much more serious the Japanese community tends to be (having the party finder be used for quick clears and not first time runs and the like, setting up numerous party finder groups to teach newbies certain encounters, and the 2ch blacklist as examples), it definitely adds a bit of weight to the current movement on tanks.

Link to a now 29 page thread on the Japanese Tank Forums asking for tank changes: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...81%97%E3%81%84

Granted, this thread is more for adding back Vit scaling to damage. Probably doesn't help the Dark Knight play style issue too much. It really does feel less active now that we aren't trying to get our Low Blow and Reprisal procs, Dark Passenger not being worth the MP to weave in between GCD's anymore, managing Scourge is no longer a thing; the only thing we really double weave is Dark Arts Carve and Split where as in Heavensward, we were weaving in Low Blow and Reprisal when their procs triggered. It kept us more on the edge, watching carefully for procs. I just feels like we just Dark Arts everything with the occasional Dark Arts Carve and Split, Salted Earth, and Plunge.

[QUOTE=Vejitta;4243611]I'm sorry, but if 3.x MT Warrior used Vengeance and/or Raw Intuition for stacks, there was clearly something very wrong with him...

You HAVE to use one of them for the triple fell cleave combo. Preferable raw intuition because is will be useable again by the time you do another berserk triple fell cleave.

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Originally Posted by Kalocin

Just remember that there's a lot of tanks echoing this without writing on the forums.

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This is the truth right here, I'm not happy with DRK's current fit. Got good DMG, Aoe tanking is fine. But begin a MT is just gimping your group. Our CD's are shit, blackest nights just made us the go to OT. The worst part is, I can be in Grit and run soul eatger combos and still get out threat by some SAM, hell even BRDs will pass you. So despite us being able to stance dance the easiest you just never will if you haev to be 2nd on the agro list. Voke shirk isnt even enough to keep you in 2nd slot.

Threat issue is a problem. It makes tanking harder for new and current players and obviously is affecting queue times since people have stopped playing tanks

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Originally Posted by Valknut

This is the truth right here, I'm not happy with DRK's current fit. Got good DMG, Aoe tanking is fine. But begin a MT is just gimping your group. Our CD's are shit, blackest nights just made us the go to OT. The worst part is, I can be in Grit and run soul eatger combos and still get out threat by some SAM, hell even BRDs will pass you. So despite us being able to stance dance the easiest you just never will if you haev to be 2nd on the agro list. Voke shirk isnt even enough to keep you in 2nd slot.

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What? I have the opposite problem with aggro. Single target I can easily hold enmity; it is AoE where I have issues. Single target, I just start with a Power Slash combo or two if the DPS are really good and I am usually good for the rest of the fight. Shirk and voke together should easily let you hold aggro in 8-man contents. I never had an issue with single target enmity, but AoE enmity generation.

Make sure you Dark Arts Syphon Strike in addition to Soul Eater if you have the spare MP; it is an extra 140 potency. Dropping out of Grit and using Blood Weapon with Delirium can help you with MP management and may allow you to maintain aggro better with the additional MP despite the immediate drop in enmity generation, as long term, the added MP can do quite a bit.

But yeah, I have not been getting any issues with single target enmity, I can even drop out of Grit for periods of time rather easily while still maintaining aggro . It's the AoE enmity generation that I have trouble with.

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Originally Posted by DJMau

...I thought you quit. Why are you still posting?

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Because i can and because i care, why are you posting here anyways just to be a dick get out of this thread and never return here.

Im on the fence about taking a break. I don't like the DRK changes at all and even past all that, the content is exactly the same as ARR and HW, even the release timeline is the same. Aren't we due for something fresh?

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Originally Posted by Mnemosynia

Yep, tank changes to much, not rolling a paladin. All my friends who were tanks rolled dps now. I tried guys can't do it i may return if they fix all the stuff in 4.1 my grievances are to much to bear.

Yeah i know its a dear dairy thread but hopefully SE will see this and might make a change.

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It says your character is lvl 60 ( http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...cter/17115487/ )

Did you even try the changes or did you just read about them and decide you didn't like them?

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Originally Posted by Falgern

It says your character is lvl 60 ( http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...cter/17115487/ )

Did you even try the changes or did you just read about them and decide you didn't like them?

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Mine still showed 60 for a while after I got to 70.

I dislike a lot of the changes. Some can be debated. However, the changes to Blood Price and Dark Passenger in my opinion are not defensible.

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Originally Posted by Falar

Mine still showed 60 for a while after I got to 70.

I dislike a lot of the changes. Some can be debated. However, the changes to Blood Price and Dark Passenger in my opinion are not defensible.

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Dark passenger I can't defend, it was a weird choice on their part. Moving MP away from Blood Price and into Syphon Strike made ST better by far. Complaining about not being able to pull half a dungeon and survive doesn't make sense as this was without a doubt not intended. Which is also clearly why they removed bloodbath from Warriors. I think the blood price change is good as it makes MP gain more stable while tanking rather than the more sporadic gain in 3.X. Tanks are currently very balanced, as balanced as they have ever been in fact.

I was initially pissed that DRK had so much stolen from it, but after taking RDM to 70 and DRK to 67 (nearly at 68 for Bloodspiller), I'm not nearly as upset as I initially was.

I'm still angry they took our Low Blow and Reprisal and gimped the **** out of it, but it's not enough to get me to quit. Just gotta get used to a slightly different playstyle.

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Originally Posted by Roan023

Why is everyone complaining about tank changes more towards actually tanking? This really makes no sense. It's called a tank for a reason. If you want big numbers play a dps maybe? Thanks for the instant Ques. Oh it's dumbed down? It's was easy before and still is now. Stance dancing? You found fun in trying to maximize your dps while tanking. Cool well it's over now. Stop crying and posting wasted space forum posts. Take your lowly 12.99 to Elder scrolls online so you can dps tank.

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Rude much? People are complaining because they want to see changes, because they want to have fun. See comment as to why players don't want to just pure tank in just holding aggro, mitigating damage and positioning enemies. It's not good for the community if a lot of people stop playing tanks because queue times will just go up.

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Originally Posted by Falgern

Dark passenger I can't defend, it was a weird choice on their part. Moving MP away from Blood Price and into Syphon Strike made ST better by far. Complaining about not being able to pull half a dungeon and survive doesn't make sense as this was without a doubt not intended. Which is also clearly why they removed bloodbath from Warriors. I think the blood price change is good as it makes MP gain more stable while tanking rather than the more sporadic gain in 3.X. Tanks are currently very balanced, as balanced as they have ever been in fact.

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Blood Price MP returns in ST fight is a joke now. Who cares about dungeons? They are just there to speedrun as fast as possible since they give us content that requires us to run them 100s of times to complete. The new SSS shows DRK dead least in ST DPS for tanks. Also, there is some debate on this, but some people are saying the math means that Bloodspiller is actually a DPS loss to use due it being on the GCD and delaying the use of Syphon Strike.

Bloodspiller and Quietus need to come off the GCD.

So what I'm seeing is healers adjusting to the healer changes (mostly) dps adjusting to dps changes (again, mostly) and tanks not wanting to adjust at all. "I cant keep hate in DPS stance spamming dps moves with the occasional emnity combo, tanking sucks now"

Shouldnt it be more optomizing hate/dps combo rotations and such? Aren't some of you supposed to be the elite tanks that show everyone how its done? yet now, instead of proving you are the best tanks, its back to strength gear so you can dps instead of learning how to deal with the changes. This is why we cant have nice things.

Not gonna lie, I got on monk and had more fun at 60 than DRK at 70

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

So what I'm seeing is healers adjusting to the healer changes (mostly) dps adjusting to dps changes (again, mostly) and tanks not wanting to adjust at all. "I cant keep hate in DPS stance spamming dps moves with the occasional emnity combo, tanking sucks now"

Shouldnt it be more optomizing hate/dps combo rotations and such? Aren't some of you supposed to be the elite tanks that show everyone how its done? yet now, instead of proving you are the best tanks, its back to strength gear so you can dps instead of learning how to deal with the changes. This is why we cant have nice things.

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Eh, there were huge threads about Summoner and Scholar, just saying. It's not just tanks.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...voting_me_and/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...t_really_hard/

And there were threads about Monk and Dragoon.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ok_at_40_monk/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...h_transitions/

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"Dealing with the changes" and not wearing STR accessories is just spamming aggro combo and AoE. It isn't hard. It just isn't fun. I mean, it's a literal fact that aggro is dependent upon damage. That's how tank stances work. So it's no surprise tanks are equipping STR gear. I don't see why you're putting them down when it's their skills that allow them to mitigate damage and survive despite having less HP.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

So what I'm seeing is healers adjusting to the healer changes (mostly) dps adjusting to dps changes (again, mostly) and tanks not wanting to adjust at all. "I cant keep hate in DPS stance spamming dps moves with the occasional emnity combo, tanking sucks now"

Shouldnt it be more optomizing hate/dps combo rotations and such? Aren't some of you supposed to be the elite tanks that show everyone how its done? yet now, instead of proving you are the best tanks, its back to strength gear so you can dps instead of learning how to deal with the changes. This is why we cant have nice things.

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The elite tanks are adjusting by wearing STR gear to deal with the changes.

Except they aren't dealing with the changes. My small FC lost a couple of healers and DPS who hate the changes. They just straight up quit and depending on what SE does, I'm not far behind them.

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Originally Posted by YitharV2

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It's not like you have to spam the hate combo in tank stance even in VIT accessories. I never picked up STR accessories in 3.4/3.5 (we quit raiding after like 13 alex clears) so I've just been using the available VIT stuff with weak STR V melds. After a very brief tank stance opener (2x combo) you can use Sword Oath on the primals and keep them just fine even without a ninja. You do have to use some of your hate combo every now and then, but for paladin that basically means looking at the rate your DPS are building enmity and tossing out a Halone combo when you can afford to give up the MP from the lost RA combo (and still make 100% in time for Requiescat).

In a fight where you can use Shirk you don't even have to do all that though. Tank swap->Shirk gives you the lead forever.

Gameplay-wise, I prefer this to "One Powerslash and Done" Gordias tanking since it actually feels like I have to react to the situation a little bit. Why even bother having the hate combos exist if we're not going to use them after the very first part of the fight?

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Originally Posted by Falar

Blood Price MP returns in ST fight is a joke now.

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But your single target MP regen doesn't rely solely on Blood Price. And as a whole, it's much faster to refill your MP now, especially if you're under Grit.

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Originally Posted by Falar

Also, there is some debate on this, but some people are saying the math means that Bloodspiller is actually a DPS loss to use due it being on the GCD and delaying the use of Syphon Strike.

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This is misinformation, there is no "delay" resulting in a DPS loss. What can be a DPS loss is spending too much MP on Blackest Night instead of Dark Arts, but that's without considering the times where TBN is used for mitigation, and that BloodSpiller ignore's the damage penalty.