EXP Parties since patch, ftl.

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Originally Posted by Felis

CNJ was a better DD then THM pre 1.20? This is a great joke I hope. CNJ was only a good DD with THM skills.

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That cone aoe ftl.

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Originally Posted by LillithaFenimore

Then don't respond if you chose to not read, or don't participate in a debate with someone ><;

Anywho, agreed with guy debating with Baxter. Having my husband play a tankable type job, while I'm on THM with NO way of controling the mobs in leve spawns except with the hope that one of my elemental spells will land some sort of status effect sucks. Really bad. They removed so many spells that I had in order to deal with multiple mobs. Blah. I can deal with AOE's being removed or restricted in my spell casting...I can even de2al with points for traits and such being removed and only be allowed a few other spells or abilities being aloted to my class...but no crowd control? Really? Can I get a Slow and a Para spell...please?

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oh, the irony of it all.. I think I read about as much of his post as you read mine. You could follow your own advice, but that's probably asking too much.

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Originally Posted by Silvano

I EXP'd just last night, and I'd hardly say it's broken. 19 -> 24 in...1-2hrs? Quite the mish-mash of jobs as well (2x PGL, 2x GLD, THM, CNJ, MRD, LNC). We were doing Cactuars, and it was GLD/MRD crowd control until they all died, with the occasional THM Fire to hurt them all.

*shrug* It was fun, and great EXP, so I'm happy. :D

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I agree, its fine. I started a party for my for about rank 33. we went to young raptors and it was good XP. At onepoint we lont out conjurr, and it took a while to find a replacement. We all just worked together to toss out cures when needed. It semed we banged out a few levels in no time at all.

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Originally Posted by Eugenics

All it did was slow the game play down, waiting to attack on MRD made me laugh. FFXIV, OAP friendly.

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basically.

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Originally Posted by Eeam

I felt like partying, put up a seek flag and got a party within 3 minutes.


This system is totally broken.

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Or maybe you wee just lucky.

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Originally Posted by Renshi

You can have your fun just fine even now, just try it =)
You don't need any knowledge about your EXP get, because when you have fun you'll not even notice you've got almost the level. Just go and try!

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getting exp was the fun part.

I love this patch. I can't wait until monthly fee sets in...We need a few whiners to keep the forums interesting though ;)

For those complaining about AoE, remember Warrior in 1.21 will get another AoE WS. This means MRD will have 2 AoE WS's. And why the hate on the 3k TP cost of whirlwind? I'm not a MRD so I can't test it but I know the 2nd ability in a combo doesn't use TP, nor does it require you to have the needed amount. I was guildleve leveling my ARC today and found I could complete my combo with only 1k TP instead of the needed 1.5k. Tried it again and I was able to complete the combo with 0 TP. Is it different for Whirlwind or is it a possible glitch I was getting (or have people not even bothered to try?)?

Change is the biggest fear to mmo's, learn and adapt, those that cant....whine on the forums.

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Originally Posted by Ilethius

Change is the biggest fear to mmo's, learn and adapt, those that cant....whine on the forums.

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SE just changed the game so you have to type /big bob loves you allot when you read to him. before EVERY ability. This can not be macroed.

So what you are saying is, we should put up with pointless, useless and terrible concepts/gameplay, because of what reason?

I'm one of the people quitting.
I'll complain to SE all I want.
When they can put enough effort into game design, that would surpass my own ability, THEN I will stop complaining.

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

SE just changed the game so you have to type /big bob loves you allot when you read to him. before EVERY ability. This can not be macroed.

So what you are saying is, we should put up with pointless, useless and terrible concepts/gameplay, because of what reason?

I'm one of the people quitting.
I'll complain to SE all I want.
When they can put enough effort into game design, that would surpass my own ability, THEN I will stop complaining.

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I... what? I can't even... How does this make any sort of sense?

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Originally Posted by Answa

I... what? I can't even... How does this make any sort of sense?

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I think this is the kind of incoherence you get when someone is really, really, really frustrated. :D

While I will aggree exp gain per hour has slowed, it is not as bad as some in this thread are saying. The problem with the party search feature is that most humans are sheep and unless someone sends them a /tell asking them to join a party they will just sit in down complaining they can't find a PT. I have never built PTs faster. On top of that it has never been easier to get replacments in the field without skipping a beat. And back to original point yes exp is a LITTLE slower but, I went 38-50 yesterday just hitting Cure, Stoneskin, Cure, Stonskin, Hot Pocket, Cure so its not that different.

I noticed in XI that I would either have to A. Put my flag up for hours on end to get an invite or B. Build my own party, I was usually doing B. Which I hated due to I hated playing leader role cause if someone had to bounce, I always had to find a replacement...I'll just stick to duoing if party leveling is slow anyways.

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

SE just changed the game so you have to type /big bob loves you allot when you read to him. before EVERY ability. This can not be macroed.

So what you are saying is, we should put up with pointless, useless and terrible concepts/gameplay, because of what reason?

I'm one of the people quitting.
I'll complain to SE all I want.
When they can put enough effort into game design, that would surpass my own ability, THEN I will stop complaining.

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You have just proved my point, thankyou.

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Originally Posted by Answa

I... what? I can't even... How does this make any sort of sense?

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Originally Posted by Xoo

I think this is the kind of incoherence you get when someone is really, really, really frustrated.

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Come on guys. His point is easy to understand. He was illustrating that it's foolish to try to get used to changes when the changes themselves are flawed and senseless. He made a example of a ridiculous change and challenged you as to whether or not you believed it was okay to put up with it. His argument is based on the point that the changes to battle and classes are bad. I don't entirely agree with him that the changes are that bad, and it was an extreme example, but it was far from nonsensical...

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Originally Posted by Baxter

oh, the irony of it all.. I think I read about as much of his post as you read mine. You could follow your own advice, but that's probably asking too much.

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LAWL. I did read it :). I read the guys entire response :P Silly Lala :P

I have also played doing a leve, hence why I agree with the guy's statement in regards to crowd control. I died a few times while duoing with my husband because the only crowd control I have access to is attached to elemental attacks at the moment. I don't want to do damage to a mob I am not attacking or being attacked by. I would like to enfeeble them so maybe my chance of surviving are better instead of having to cure bomb myself and hope my husbands second wind and blood bath are ready for him to use. THM has had some of it's healing spells removed and replaced by other means of healing, so he now has to level a job he hates in the first place in order to have cure to help me out during our leves. Just frustrating. And since no one knows if the jobs system will have all these missing spells...makes me even more frustrated...if I knew...I'd most likely shut up.

I think he meant that Claire's english was so broken it was difficult to parse, or impossible.
I admit, not being a native english speaker her words are... Certainly difficult to almost impossible to discern the meaning of.

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Originally Posted by Manafont

Yeah lets make things like and make tanks and other melee be useless while low level cause they can't get aggro of all the mobs. Learn the game you bad, learn the screwed up with this patch

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I just read this... 6-7 times... what the ef are you trying to say?

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Originally Posted by MartaDemireux

For those complaining about AoE, remember Warrior in 1.21 will get another AoE WS. This means MRD will have 2 AoE WS's. And why the hate on the 3k TP cost of whirlwind? I'm not a MRD so I can't test it but I know the 2nd ability in a combo doesn't use TP, nor does it require you to have the needed amount. I was guildleve leveling my ARC today and found I could complete my combo with only 1k TP instead of the needed 1.5k. Tried it again and I was able to complete the combo with 0 TP. Is it different for Whirlwind or is it a possible glitch I was getting (or have people not even bothered to try?)?

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In general combo costs are determined by positioning for non ARC DoWs. Havent tried my MRD since patch but in order to use whirlwind for free you must first use Path of Storms. What is unclear to me is if path of storms needs to be executed from behind the target in order to receive free whirlwind.

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Originally Posted by Thanos

I just read this... 6-7 times... what the ef are you trying to say?

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I think he is being sarcastic and his point is killing lower rank AoE significantly lowers kill rates which will slow down level progression.

Others are saying they agree that things should not be able to be AoE so much. IMO AoE makes sense in a game that wants to pit you up against multiple enemies at a time.

Someone also mentioned using sleep >< people should know classes better before they try and use them in arguments lol. This whole thread has a lot of fail in it.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

In general combo costs are determined by positioning for non ARC DoWs. Havent tried my MRD since patch but in order to use whirlwind for free you must first use Path of Storms. What is unclear to me is if path of storms needs to be executed from behind the target in order to receive free whirlwind.

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yes it does need to be from rear the triple combo is from side, then theres a combo from front and the path of storms is from rear

they are all real easy to do if your not tanking, i landed 7ws on one moogle in a row

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

yes it does need to be from rear the triple combo is from side, then theres a combo from front and the path of storms is from rear

they are all real easy to do if your not tanking, i landed 7ws on one moogle in a row

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Hehe yeah been to busy on the LNC to really mess with any of my other classes

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Originally Posted by Krausus

Hehe yeah been to busy on the LNC to really mess with any of my other classes

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when i set up my bars for different classes i group my combo actions next to each other in order that i need to use them, that way i dont forget:)

My issue with experience point parties is the monsters don't last but 5-10 seconds. You are lucky to get an action or two off before it is dead. Reminds me of Dynamis in FFXI. As a result, parties rarely involve strategy or challenge, rather the entry obstacle of actually finding warm bodies to fill your slots (giggity).

I would prefer a hybrid between XI and XIV in which fights would last longer but not as long as they did in FFXI. Could accomplish this by increasing monster HP significantly. That way, combos, and strategy can actually be involved in party play. At least in FFXI, party play mechanics would train you to use your job in end game settings. In FFXIV, you could literally party grind from 1-50 and theoretically not really know how to use your class strategically in party play.

Alternative/Counter Argument:
-Community adopts light parties (4 people) as exp party size and full parties (8 people) as primarily for end game
-The lack of crowd control debuffs make longer fights difficult to implement with current groupings of monsters (typically bunched together and quick spawning)

Thoughts?

Not sure if this topic is still on topic. But exp parties are just fine after this patch. The xp/hr is slower than 1.19, but that was broken.

Can still get 60-80k xp/hr. Just need to be a bit more careful with links.

XP parties were broken post 1.19, XP was simply too damn fast. I have three words for anyone who thinks otherwise; Ixali wolf camp.

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Originally Posted by Gidonoidon_Sur

My issue with experience point parties is the monsters don't last but 5-10 seconds. You are lucky to get an action or two off before it is dead. Reminds me of Dynamis in FFXI. As a result, parties rarely involve strategy or challenge, rather the entry obstacle of actually finding warm bodies to fill your slots (giggity).

I would prefer a hybrid between XI and XIV in which fights would last longer but not as long as they did in FFXI. Could accomplish this by increasing monster HP significantly. That way, combos, and strategy can actually be involved in party play. At least in FFXI, party play mechanics would train you to use your job in end game settings.

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My thoughts exactly. The best solution for now may be to increase monster HP while also lowering it's attack power. This will make fights a little longer without putting the tank and healer in a stressful position. Exp and chain timer should both be proportionately increased to make up for the increase in mob HP.

Alternatively, monster strength could be boosted significantly (with proportionate boost to EXP) to where a typical party would only be able to take down one monster a time allowing each member ample opportunity to combo and perform battle regimen when re-implemented. Monsters would have to be spread out to where pulling without links would be possible. This set up would be similar to FFXI-style partying.

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Originally Posted by Gidonoidon_Sur

My issue with experience point parties is the monsters don't last but 5-10 seconds. You are lucky to get an action or two off before it is dead. Reminds me of Dynamis in FFXI. As a result, parties rarely involve strategy or challenge, rather the entry obstacle of actually finding warm bodies to fill your slots (giggity).

I would prefer a hybrid between XI and XIV in which fights would last longer but not as long as they did in FFXI. Could accomplish this by increasing monster HP significantly. That way, combos, and strategy can actually be involved in party play. At least in FFXI, party play mechanics would train you to use your job in end game settings. In FFXIV, you could literally party grind from 1-50 and theoretically not really know how to use your class strategically in party play.

Alternative/Counter Argument:
-Community adopts light parties (4 people) as exp party size and full parties (8 people) as primarily for end game
-The lack of crowd control debuffs make longer fights difficult to implement with current groupings of monsters (typically bunched together and quick spawning)

Thoughts?

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lol so a thread is created complaining about how XP parties now take longer to earn xp in and you create a suggestion trying to slow xp down even more ><

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Originally Posted by Krausus

lol so a thread is created complaining about how XP parties now take longer to earn xp in and you create a suggestion trying to slow xp down even more ><

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take longer than what? last patch? that crap was broken as hell and the rate was (correctly) adjusted.

I went 25-50 on MRD in the last couple of days, particularly last night 36-50 in about 13-14 hours. I never had parties before patch so I can't speak for the old system, but at the moment partying seems very viable. Crowd control is not that difficult. Those controlling the crowd are the tanks, usually was a mix of 2 GLA or MRD, PUG could also tank some links. The basic hate moves, Provoke and Flash, are enough to achieve this. If you add a combo to that (on MRD also increases enmity), it's not hard to keep 3 mobs you. With 2 tanks doing all that, crowd control = not a problem. It wasn't uncommon to be fighting 3-5 mobs at once in the strongholds.

Sure, not having spammable AOEs must be slower than pre-1.20, but I don't have that comparison point. MRDs can still use Path Of The Storm + Whirlwind quite frequently, but it might be a bit tricky to start of the combo. It is doable however, even while tanking. With Keen Flurry, it's quite easy to get a WW off at every pull, speeding up the fights considerably. Before strongholds, the mobs didn't really last long enough to have any use for AOEs, so I don't think it's a problem having limited choices at lower levels, at least for party play.

For solo play, however, not having lower level AOEs can be a little problematic, since by leve design you're (almost) always fighting multiple mobs at a time. As MRD I haven't noticed much trouble, since they're pretty sturdy as is and can take the beating, even from multiple targets, but for other non-tank classes it might be troublesome. I don't really know since MRD is my first level 50 class.

Exp parties are awesome. Just my 2 cents.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

lol so a thread is created complaining about how XP parties now take longer to earn xp in and you create a suggestion trying to slow xp down even more ><

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I guess I left out that EXP should/would stay the same per hour in this proposed action. So SE would have to boost the EXP earned per fight. Say they double the HP of monsters, would also double the EXP (simple example).

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Originally Posted by Kitfox

I went 25-50 on MRD in the last couple of days, particularly last night 36-50 in about 13-14 hours. I never had parties before patch so I can't speak for the old system, but at the moment partying seems very viable. Crowd control is not that difficult. Those controlling the crowd are the tanks, usually was a mix of 2 GLA or MRD, PUG could also tank some links. The basic hate moves, Provoke and Flash, are enough to achieve this. If you add a combo to that (on MRD also increases enmity), it's not hard to keep 3 mobs you. With 2 tanks doing all that, crowd control = not a problem. It wasn't uncommon to be fighting 3-5 mobs at once in the strongholds.

Sure, not having spammable AOEs must be slower than pre-1.20, but I don't have that comparison point. MRDs can still use Path Of The Storm + Whirlwind quite frequently, but it might be a bit tricky to start of the combo. It is doable however, even while tanking. With Keen Flurry, it's quite easy to get a WW off at every pull, speeding up the fights considerably. Before strongholds, the mobs didn't really last long enough to have any use for AOEs, so I don't think it's a problem having limited choices at lower levels, at least for party play.

For solo play, however, not having lower level AOEs can be a little problematic, since by leve design you're (almost) always fighting multiple mobs at a time. As MRD I haven't noticed much trouble, since they're pretty sturdy as is and can take the beating, even from multiple targets, but for other non-tank classes it might be troublesome. I don't really know since MRD is my first level 50 class.

Exp parties are awesome. Just my 2 cents.

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I think my issue with this is you shouldn't need two tanks o.o;. That just maybe the FFXI in me though. We always had back up tanks and some sort of enfeebler who would deal with the agro until the 1st mob was dead. When I think of a party I always think of XI set up. Tank (NIN or PLD), DD(WAR,BLM,MNK,DRK,RNG), Puller (RNG, THF, WAR), Healer (RDM,WHM,SMN, SCH), Enfeebler (RDM, and sometimes NIN), then that would leave room for one other of w/e I guess. And I know Monks and WARs and I think to a point DNC could act as a tank, but only as back up due to armor set up and subjob.

However, this game is set up differently. We have that luxary of having two tanks, but if you are in a party, where I imagine pulling is the same as in XI, that you should have one mob, and hope and pray for no agro, then having two tanks to control the one mob sounds insane. IDK maybe again it's just that XI mentality I am accustomed to.

Regardless, what about those who solo/duo and have leves to deal with? They desperately need crowd control due to having to take on multiple mobs at once, and God forbid you are a DOM soloing...

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Originally Posted by LillithaFenimore

I think my issue with this is you shouldn't need two tanks o.o;. That just maybe the FFXI in me though. We always had back up tanks and some sort of enfeebler who would deal with the agro until the 1st mob was dead. When I think of a party I always think of XI set up. Tank (NIN or PLD), DD(WAR,BLM,MNK,DRK,RNG), Puller (RNG, THF, WAR), Healer (RDM,WHM,SMN, SCH), Enfeebler (RDM, and sometimes NIN), then that would leave room for one other of w/e I guess. And I know Monks and WARs and I think to a point DNC could act as a tank, but only as back up due to armor set up and subjob.

However, this game is set up differently. We have that luxary of having two tanks, but if you are in a party, where I imagine pulling is the same as in XI, that you should have one mob, and hope and pray for no agro, then having two tanks to control the one mob sounds insane. IDK maybe again it's just that XI mentality I am accustomed to.

Regardless, what about those who solo/duo and have leves to deal with? They desperately need crowd control due to having to take on multiple mobs at once, and God forbid you are a DOM soloing...

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that is jsut the ffxi mentality, it actually makes sense that you should have multiple tanks, at least sometimes, since all of the jobs can handle a monster to some extent. breaking off and fighting different mobs at once and reforming on the tougher mobs, is imo a good and interesting mechanic that allows jobs to also use thier versatility, and make combat less one dimensional.

XP is much less per hour now (which I think is a good thing) but honestly no one in my linkshell has been having issues with partying. Just cannot go crazy and pulling 9 mobs at once like before and get 20k xp/6mins. 60-70k/hr seems to be about average give or take 10k. Honestly Rank 40 leves and Partys seems to be about equal SP per hour now in groups. Leves below 40 non-leve groups seems to pull ahead easy.

As for the multiple tank I suggest bringing them if you have 8 ppl. 2 healers, 2 tanks, 4 dd and things will go smoothly. The XI 1 tank mentality needs to be broken with the link system currently in place, it is doable but alot harder and more stress on healers and tanks then it should be.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

take longer than what? last patch? that crap was broken as hell and the rate was (correctly) adjusted.

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AoE is not needed to gain the same insane amounts of xp pre patch, you just have to know where to go

Visiting this forum is like going out into a jungle... I never know what I'm going to find next, and I'm real scared.

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Originally Posted by Krausus

In general combo costs are determined by positioning for non ARC DoWs. Havent tried my MRD since patch but in order to use whirlwind for free you must first use Path of Storms. What is unclear to me is if path of storms needs to be executed from behind the target in order to receive free whirlwind.

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Yeah the first WS needs to be used from correct positioning, the one that completes the combo doesn't, though. So for ARC I have to run away from the mob and get some distance, then do my WS. I can complete the combo when it's closer than 8 ft. You know you're doing it right when the skill to complete the combo is highlighted in purple.

I just don't see why MRD's don't stagger when they do it or team up with THM's to AoE stuff. I think using whirlwind in a combo reduces the timer on it... or something. With 3 MRD you can do it on every pull, just need the 1k TP for the first WS. 1-2THM's can clean up the survivors with their AoEs. Doesn't really make for any slower leveling in my opinion, just more organization.

MRDs Path of the Storms + Whirlwind combo: Build TP to 1500 -> use Path of the Storms from behind mob (running through works) -> Buff Blood for Blood (more dmg), Keen Flurry (lower next WS recast) -> use Whirlwind (no TP cost).

Whirlwind has a really long recast (+1 min, can't remember exact value) so to spam it more often you need Keen Flurry from LNC (lvl26). Path of the Storms still has around 30 sec cool down so that's about the fastest you can spam it, as you need it to open combo for Whirlwind. And Storms needs to land from behind or the combo won't start.

When using combo, only the first WS costs TP, recast timers for skills aren't affected in anyway when doing combos. It's just that, to use Whirlwind without combo you need 3000 TP, in a combo you can use it without TP cost after landing Path of the Storms, which only costs 1500 TP. So it's faster to use Whirlwind after Storms rather than build TP for single Whirlwind execution.

Just to clarify.

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Originally Posted by SniperRifle

Visiting this forum is like going out into a jungle... I never know what I'm going to find next, and I'm real scared.

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You're a Marauder named Sniper Rifle, you shouldnt be scared of anything :cool: