DRK needs a revision

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bswpayton

the devs just gona have to get over like what they expect people to do and let people just play and enjoy the game.

---

That or change the root issues that develop in people playing that way. But much like healer DPS and large pulls in dungeons they seem to want to go about it the wrong way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xenosan

Ya, and when they first mentioned the UI additions way back, they explicitly mentioned Dark Knight and how their UI will help visualize Darkside. Huh

What they meant to say was they're wiping out DS management entirely and enjoy this 2-stack resource for redundant GCD attacks.

---

It's not even a Dark Knight anymore. No HP cost attacks( while OT)
No mana drain
No potency increases via hp%

Just edgy skills plastered into a job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Veritas-Ancora

Other than jobs pull out more DPS, which is half the problem.

Also, do you seriously want LESS tanks in already bad queue times with the release of more DPS? This is not the solution to or problem. It's balance.

---

As I always say, tank players go DPS because they are being forced to do dps by the community. When a DPS player is bashed for doing low dps, he generally doesn't care what people say, because he is still having fun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bswpayton

the devs just gona have to get over like what they expect people to do and let people just play and enjoy the game.

---

Meh! Can't enjoy the game from a tank perspective if the community bases the player for staying in tank stance. I would wish the developers forced the tank stance on us.

Honestly I'm just concerned with DRKs changes. I mean we got pretty cool stuff but we gave up a lot of stuff. I'm not going to prejudge yet but I'll miss Scourge and Delirium. I just wish DRK will be ''good enough'' because I don't see it exceeding in anything.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crossu

Honestly I'm just concerned with DRKs changes. I mean we got pretty cool stuff but we gave up a lot of stuff. I'm not going to prejudge yet but I'll miss Scourge and Delirium. I just wish DRK will be ''good enough'' because I don't see it exceeding in anything.

---

Well, taking a closer look, it seems Blood Spiller isnt quite meant to be solely a "new DPS move".
Occasionally you will get enough blood to use it, and its a DPS increase, but you wont use it as often as you used Scourge. (For this purpose)

The actual purpose of Blood Spiller is to have a way to make The Blackest Night non spammable.

Blackest Night would be spammed if it had no real cost, or it would end up acting like a normal CD, if it didnt have a resource requirement.

If it takes up the blood gauge, people would save the blood for DPS.
If it takes up MP, people would save the MP for Dark Arts.

So it takes MP, and gives enough blood to use a new attack, which helps play "Catch up". It actually does less dmg. (I think people have averaged it out to be a 10 potency loss, or lower)
So think of Blood Spiller as a "Dont worry about the MP cost on Blackest Night. I'll help you catch back up."

Only from blood price, and soul eater, is it a DPS increase.

Because its a tiny DPS lose, this prevents spamming Blackest Night.
But because its so small, tanks wont be afraid to use it to help on mitigation.

Now, we also lost the use of Dark Passenger on single target, if anyoen has slashing debuff, as the MP cost is better spent on Blood Spiller, Soul Eater, or Syphon Strike.
Add the loss of the other oGCDs, and it does feel like we lost more than we gained.
But the extra MP should be enough to land a few more Dark Arts, plus 5% more dmg.

So I'd say we're probably close to even on our DPS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

As I always say, tank players go DPS because they are being forced to do dps by the community. When a DPS player is bashed for doing low dps, he generally doesn't care what people say, because he is still having fun.



Meh! Can't enjoy the game from a tank perspective if the community bases the player for staying in tank stance. I would wish the developers forced the tank stance on us.

---

That would be terrible.

Removing choice or taking away options is never good design.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Falar

That would be terrible.

Removing choice or taking away options is never good design.

---

Well, in reality, there is only ever Right or Wrong choice, when it comes to rotations.

In short, the only correct option is to max out our DPS.
So by making encounters need it more, its just going with the other option.

Nothing really changes in the number of options.
Instead, its more about the extra needed skill to judge when or when not to stance dance.

I'm amazed by the fact that they remove AoEs from a lot of jobs, and ADD another one to DRK!

If Quietus end up being the same thing as it was presented, i wont even bother wasting a slot in my hotbars with it.

EDIT:
Forgot to mention that... adding DA to skills is ok, but how are we supposed to use them effectively without MP regen?
Is Blood Weapon/Price MP regen being increased? If not, it'll be as useful as WHM lilies (tentative)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Etrius

I'm amazed by the fact that they remove AoEs from a lot of jobs, and ADD another one to DRK!

If Quietus end up being the same thing as it was presented, i wont even bother wasting a slot in my hotbars with it.

EDIT:
Forgot to mention that... adding DA to skills is ok, but how are we supposed to use them effectively without MP regen?
Is Blood Weapon/Price MP regen being increased? If not, it'll be as useful as WHM lilies (tentative)

---

Quietus is a sort of "Free" AoE, in that it doesnt take up MP.
You can use DA for Dark Passenger (DA=+90 potency +blind ), or Quietus for DPS (DA=+140 potency), or abyssal for survival(DA=drain).

So it can help you save MP for 1 GCD, depending on how you do it.

THe Dark Passenger nerf bothers me the more I think about it.

It was only ever available every 30s and I always tried to maximize the use of it as it could be powerful in the right situation.

Now it seems much less so.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by aqskerorokero

Think about it...PLD needed a revision at the start of 3.0, and possibly gets it now in 4.0, so wait?

---

I was skimming through the thread until I found this reply....

So it's okay to need a revision and wait an entire expansion to play the job that appeals to me... ok.

We can expect incoming tank damage to stay proportionally the same as in ARR/HW, the minute SE requires good/experienced tanks to need Tank stance to survive, they make it impossible/exceptionally difficult for the bads/unexperienced to do so.

PLD got to be top Tank in 2.xx and now 4.xx

WAR was the king of 3.xx

Maybe our turn will be 5.xx

Though with our luck their will be a new tank in 5.xx to be top dog.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Falar

PLD got to be top Tank in 2.xx and now 4.xx

WAR was the king of 3.xx

Maybe our turn will be 5.xx

Though with our luck their will be a new tank in 5.xx to be top dog.

---

The only 3.x savage fight where drk isn't optimal is a9s faust though, since it's so short that war's berserk burst is so good, and there's no LB usage so the penalty of bringing 2 war is irrelevant.

Viable in progression and optimal for speedruns are two different things. World first clears influence guides, which influence player perceptions of what's viable. In ARR, the general public felt that PLD was the only main tank capable of tanking T12 because that's what all the early groups did. Speedkills and 6-man clears at the end of the tier used a WAR MT because it was more efficient, but most people don't remember that.

A7S speedruns used DRK/WAR, skipped most of the phases, and experimented with things like burning Holmgang and Living Dead at the same time in order to stack both tanks for bombs. But that's probably not the average player's experience. For all of PLD's supposed weaknesses, its cooldown kit blows DRK's out of the water in that fight when you're learning it. Hallowed is ludicrously powerful, and DRK has always struggled with heavily physical fights.

If you look at the world first clears of the past three tiers, the MT has always swapped between PLD and DRK on a fight by fight basis. The only constant was WAR. Pure PLD and pure DRK was a luxury that few raiding tanks had (and probably required a certain amount of stubbornness). You generally mained both jobs, and pulled off a Cecil from Dissidia, switching between the two depending on the situation.