AOE Spells - Can they be renamed? "Thunderga" rater then II and IV?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kikix12

Also, it seems important to note that Fire, Fira and Firaga in some games were both a single-target spell AND an AoE spell, based on what the player wanted, with the AoE dealing less damage per target as a trade-off. That would actually be a fun mechanic here too...Have an AoE stance that you can turn on and your elemental spells become AoE at the cost of damage...Would solve naming issues for one.

---

We had it during 1.0, the AoE toggle. Sadly it got removed after the classes got changed for the job system.

http://oi67.tinypic.com/deo2uq.jpg

It feeled like playing the classic FF games, where you moved the target cursor to max. left to activate AoE.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Felis

We had it during 1.0, the AoE toggle. Sadly it got removed after the classes got changed for the job system.

http://oi67.tinypic.com/deo2uq.jpg

It feeled like playing the classic FF games, where you moved the target cursor to max. left to activate AoE.

---

Oh man... that's been a while... I think that got removed with the 1.21 changes (some patch) becuase Fire (all fire) was AOE... and thunder was single target... it's been a while though.

I agree, they should take the ffxi approach now that the system has changed. Thunder 1 > thunder 2 = single target, thundaga > thundaga 2 = AoE.

it has always seemed really off to me that the AoE nukes are considered to be in the same line as the single target ones. Fire 3 should be fire 2, fire 4 should be fire 3, while fire 2 should be firaga and the same with the blizzard and aero lines.

I feel that the numbers are much more confusing than the suffixes would be. Because the numbers imply that they are all just stronger versions of the same spell, which isn't always the case. While things like the Stone series of spells are exactly the same except in power, in the case of the Fire spells, for example, each Fire has its own unique properties and function within the BLM rotation. But you'd never guess that from the name alone.

This is why we get BLMs spamming nothing but Fire 3/Blizzard 3. They're the highest numbered spells, after all, so they must be the best to use and the others are obsolete and can be shunted off the hot bars entirely.

Same for Cure. I and II are mostly the same, but Cure III is a very different beast and certainly not the best universally in every situation, despite it having the highest number.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

They addressed this years ago. It's I, II, III because it's easier to understand and they're not going to change it.

---

Didn't make much sense then, makes even less sense now.

Thunder 1 and 3 are single target while 2 and 4 is AoE? This is not easier to understand. This is nonsense. There's no hierarchy here, they're completely different types of spells.

If they want to keep a hierarchy, they should probably go with FFXI style naming, where -ga is AoE.

Thunder, Thunder II.
Thundaga, Thundaga II.

Just emulate FFXI already.

AoE vs. ST versions of a spell should have different (but related) names; something like Fire and Firaga, a la FFXI, accomplishes this.

Within a category of spell (AoE or ST), if multiple versions exist, they should have some mechanism to indicate their relative strength, a la I, II, III, IV, etc. Again, FFXI's system accomplishes this.

Why change a system that already worked fine?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

They addressed this years ago. It's I, II, III because it's easier to understand and they're not going to change it.

---

This was not easy to understand at all.

Bio and Bio II do not stack, both are single target Bio II is instant cast.
Miasma and Miasma II do not stack, Miasma II is AOE and instant cast.
Ruin, Ruin II, Ruin III are all single target and Ruin II is the only instant cast.

Miasma II shoud've had a different name.
Ruin III also should have a different name like Broil.

It just feels more FF to go with the cura curaga than these numbers which make every new number feel like a lazy new spell.
If it was without the numbers they would actually feel like unique spells, to me anyway.

So basically the english version is the only one that doesn't want things feel to FF enough.
It didn't make FFX sell less so it's ok to change it back to cura, curaga, etc

The JP version of FFXIV already uses suffixes to denote strength.

English: Thunder, Thunder II, Thunder III, Thunder IV
Japanese: Thunder, Thundera, Thundaga, Thunderja

This is evident if you watch the Live Letter again and hear Yoshi talk about the new changes to spells and he says "Sunda, Sundara, Sundaga, Sundaja", referring to Thunder 1-4.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

The JP version of FFXIV already uses suffixes to denote strength.

English: Thunder, Thunder II, Thunder III, Thunder IV
Japanese: Thunder, Thundera, Thundaga, Thunderja

This is evident if you watch the Live Letter again and hear Yoshi talk about the new changes to spells and he says "Sunda, Sundara, Sundaga, Sundaja", referring to Thunder 1-4.

---

The German version does it this way as well. The French uses prefixes instead. Only the English version uses the confusing tier numbers that imply every spell is exactly the same.

With all these changes happening, now would be the best time to change the names of AoE skills. I hope SE reads this and adds this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpiritMuse

The German version does it this way as well. The French uses prefixes instead. Only the English version uses the confusing tier numbers that imply every spell is exactly the same.

---

Again there's literally no difference between Fire I, II, III, IV and Fire, Fira, Firaga, Firaja other than some people here trying to be FF purists, with the JP/DE system Firaga is still single target and Fira is AoE, same with Thundara and Thundaja being aoes but Thundaga is not, on the other hand Cura is single target and Curaga is aoe.

Suffix system by itself not only doesn't fix anything, it does make everything more confusing. We need XI's system, AoEs should share a similar naming convention that is separate from single target.

Adopting FFXI's way, this is what we'd get.

BLM: Fire, Fire II (III), Fire III (IV) and Firaga (II). Blizzard, Blizzard II (III), Blizzard III (IV) and Blizzara (II). Thunder, Thunder II (III), Thundaga (II) and Thundaga II (IV).
WHM: Aero, Aero II and Aeroga (III). Cure, Cure II and Curaga (III). No changes to Stone.

-ara is AoE around the caster and -aga is AoE around the target. -aja spells were also AoE's around the target, but also enhanced spell potency with every successive use.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MiniPrinny

This is a matter of personal taste, but I would prefer if instead, we had the proper naming, but rename spells that are functionally different.

So, for an example, Fire I, III, and IV would be "Fire, Fira, and Firaga." Fire II would be "Inferno" with "Flare" remaining as is. In a similar line, "Thunder, Thundaga" and "Shock, Shockga." Likewise, Blizzard I, III, and IV would be "Blizzard, Blizzara, Blizzaga," with Blizzard II becoming "Cold Snap."

---

Honestly this is the suggestion I like the most. It might suffer a bit, in that the -ga spells function slightly different (from what I can tell, not 50+ yet so I haven't played with the IV spells), and maybe some slight weirdness with things like Firestarter and -ra spells giving 3 stacks (just, in my head, it seems like it would feel a little odd that the "mid-level" spells have that level of mechanical complexity).

But, in terms of clarity, it would communicate purpose better than current names.

FFXIV follow the classic FFI/FFII/FFFIII model of spells. If Im not mistaken in french translation they use the modern spell model.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jeykama

Lore-"based" or not, they went through all this trouble to simplify the battle system with new UI components and consolidating so more casual players wouldn't get as confused, then they leave in this obtuse numbered naming system.

I had a healer using Cure III on me because they figured a higher number meant it was a better heal than Cure or Cure II. I mean come on. It's dumb and needs to go away. Amdapor is a dead state after all.

---

lel it's not the localization team's fault that people don't read tooltips.