Cleric Stance is dead!

I am so damn happy about this CS change! No more stance dancing yay!!

Not sure how I feel about this. I have no issue with dpsing. I usually do as a healer. The stance dancing through was really the only interesting aspect of the dpsing part mechanically. Healer rotations are mind numbingly boring. This is going to make healer dpsing a lot less engaging. Hopefully they up the actual healer side to make up for it.

I might actually play my whm more now because of this.

Changes nothing, good healers will still DPS and heal and continue to do so, while using the new Cleric Stance as a DPS CD, and the bad healers will still not DPS and sit AFK while their new UI isn't used at all.

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Originally Posted by Lexia

I might actually play my whm more now because of this.

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It does sound interesting. My Sch is higher level than my WHM, but perhaps it's time to switch emphasis.

WHM save me from my badly timed jump!!!! Wooooo!

There is no excuse now to don't kick lazy healers.

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Originally Posted by Leanna

There is no excuse now to don't kick lazy healers.

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Tell me, why is it that some players see this only as an excuse to kick more players? You're illustrating one of the things that many will call 'toxic' in our community, please stop.

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Originally Posted by Stormbad

WHM save me from my badly timed jump!!!! Wooooo!

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Yoink!

I am *thrilled* about this change. I already DPS as much as I can (depending on group ability of course) but now I will feel more comfortable taking risks where I normally wouldn't because of the need to switch back to healing stance.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Tell me, why is it that some players see this only as an excuse to kick more players? You're illustrating one of the things that many will call 'toxic' in our community, please stop.

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I don't play to carry lazy players for free. If someone is going to be afk with /follow, that person deserves to be kicked, they are leechers.

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Originally Posted by Leanna

I don't play to carry lazy players for free.

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I don't play to be insulted and kicked by wanna be raiders who can't accept that a game is something to be played regardless of ability.

I'm super stoked they are dropping cleric stance. I do dps as a healer because many times dps is just terrible but cleric stance is very clunky. Weaving between dpsing and healing will be much more fluid now.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

I don't play to be insulted and kicked by wanna be raiders who can't accept that a game is something to be played regardless of ability.

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So you just /follow and go afk? Good for you! But I don't want to see you in my party.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

I don't play to be insulted and kicked by wanna be raiders who can't accept that a game is something to be played regardless of ability.

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Get the blacklist ready then. There is a huge difference between trying and not doing your best (which is fine) and doing /follow or "healz onry". No skin off my back if lazies blacklist me.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

Doing damage on a DPS is a requirement, while doing damage on a healer is -while encouraged- optional. They may contribute do the overall DPS for faster progress, but shunning them if they don't is just bad.

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Regardless of the class you should always be doing something with every GCD some healers have been using the excuse that they cant dps because they are afraid of being stuck in CS and often stand around doing nothing for extended periods of time or do pointless over healing. Now you can cancel a offensive spell and immediately heal so every healer should at least attempt to contribute to dps when the situation allows it, I am not saying kick people for not doing maximum dps.

Love it. Now there is ZERO excuse for a healer not to DPS.

the point is some people make , like always some are way to aggressive about it XD , its like ur just looking for somethign that u dont like to call others bad , thats not really motivating , ur just asking to be trolled in df ^^

This is a great change. A lot of people are saying 'Playing a healer will be boring now!' Well, I'll take it being boring if it's reliable for a larger group of folks. Changing CS into a buff adds a degree of lag proofing that was sorely needed. Now folks might be far less hesitant about DPS in dungeons knowing that it's no longer a choice between potentially killing everyone to throw some rocks and making sure everyone lives at the cost of ignoring half your abilities. Now all they need to do is upgrade Hall of the Novice to enforce to new players that doing damage IS part of the job now.

Hard to believe that 1. based on what we know now, DPS will be even a bigger part of healer role in SB, and 2. everyone here seems happy about it. :D

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Originally Posted by Cadmar

Love it. Now there is ZERO excuse for a healer not to DPS.

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No clue whats this thread about - no source anywhere!

Healers are healers. I Still wont DPS at all lol... people these days...
Or DPS classes can heal the party?

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

No clue whats this thread about - no source anywhere!

Healers are healers. I Still wont DPS at all lol... people these days...
Or DPS classes can heal the party?

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DPS Classes doesn't have healing skills, healers have DPS skills.

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Originally Posted by Leanna

DPS Classes doesn't have healing skills, healers have DPS skills.

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I'm all for rectifying that, tho.

But healers might no longer be taken into content as a result, considering how low it's tuned on healing.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Tell me, why is it that some players see this only as an excuse to kick more players? You're illustrating one of the things that many will call 'toxic' in our community, please stop.

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What? Do you know you can report people for stalling/keeping them hostage in duty finder? It's toxic if you gonna be lazy and barely play with other people around. So I don't get why it's toxic to kick someone who obviously do it on purpose.

Exactly what I wanted. I'm happy with this.

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

Healers are healers. I Still wont DPS at all lol... people these days...
Or DPS classes can heal the party?

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No hate, just a question here from a fellow healer. Will you also not cast things like Stoneskin, Protect, or any other support ability that doesn't directly heal your party? Because yes, healers are healers, we have an amazing range of support abilities including buffs, barriers, cleanses, and dps. So if you don't see the value in dps because it's not a heal, are the other support abilities also without value?

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Originally Posted by Rita1989

Regardless of the class you should always be doing something with every GCD some healers have been using the excuse that they cant dps because they are afraid of being stuck in CS and often stand around doing nothing for extended periods of time or do pointless over healing. Now you can cancel a offensive spell and immediately heal so every healer should at least attempt to contribute to dps when the situation allows it, I am not saying kick people for not doing maximum dps.

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The reason healers don't get a challenge anymore is because we are hopelessly overgeared on the current content, with mass pulls on tanks easily being survivable and whatnot.

I hope the dungeons we will get on the expasion will provide more diversity and intelligent management of cooldowns to get through them. Until we overgear those as well, I guess.
Think of Dun Scaith on release week.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

What? Do you know you can report people for stalling/keeping them hostage in duty finder? It's toxic if you gonna be lazy and barely play with other people around. So I don't get why it's toxic to kick someone who obviously do it on purpose.

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u can also kick people for different playstyle ^^ , so the arguments is not really leading to anywhere as long people , play the game just to find something to bitch at each other XD

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Originally Posted by Khemorex

u can also kick people for different playstyle ^^ , so the arguments is not really leading to anywhere as long people , play the game just to find something to bitch at each other XD

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My point. I'm doing expert roulette the same one for 2 months, well not me but others do and they will obviously go insane doing so. Yes there are other content but expert gives you the fast tomestones. So when you done it for so long it's a battle going in and out fast. I'm not expecting raid level to do it, I'm expecting effort. So don't say anything else if you gonna quote me on this. How is it fun to play a MMO with other REAL PLAYERS,doing nothing? What's the point of playing then? It feels like people love to defend those people. It's not bitching when we don't wanna play for another player while we already have our own thing to do, how hard is that to get? How in the hell is that bitching?`I'm seriously mind blown right now.


Anyways back on topic. The changes are welcome and this means people can be dps more as healer. The stance dance made some people scared to try and I can get that, however that will be changed so it's welcome. Now nobody has a excuse anymore.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

The reason healers don't get a challenge anymore is because we are hopelessly overgeared on the current content, with mass pulls on tanks easily being survivable and whatnot. .

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Week 1 for FC's raid group, both healers did over 800 dps in 9-10 savage. In 11 was a bit tough obviously. But people still dpsed, knowing what would come, they would be prepared before the tank buster would happen. This was clearly in ilvl250 gear, so not overgeared.

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Originally Posted by Leanna

So you just /follow and go afk? Good for you! But I don't want to see you in my party.

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You seem very familiar with that style of play. I'm not, but then I won't heal content unless I know I can do it well enough to not be a liability.

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Originally Posted by Tsumdere

Get the blacklist ready then. There is a huge difference between trying and not doing your best (which is fine) and doing /follow or "healz onry". No skin off my back if lazies blacklist me.

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So, "lazies" is the new "bads"?

If you read what I was saying, which I don't think you did; or have said any previous topic about healer DPS, you'd know that I agree that players should be working to support the group through their primary role and through DPS where possible. I don't agree that it's OK for players to literally do nothing, or Netflix their way through content, that's rude and inconsiderate behavior. But prejudging people as you and others are doing is just as rude and inconsiderate, if not more so.

Hallelujah

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Dammit yoshi-p you was suppose to destroy the "heals should dps" side, not join it.

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Originally Posted by akaneakki

Week 1 for FC's raid group, both healers did over 800 dps in 9-10 savage. In 11 was a bit tough obviously. But people still dpsed, knowing what would come, they would be prepared before the tank buster would happen. This was clearly in ilvl250 gear, so not overgeared.

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Savage content is a different take, where progression is far more focused and the skill ceiling was heigher. Much like skipping Soar to make the overall fight easier.

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Originally Posted by Leanna

DPS Classes doesn't have healing skills, healers have DPS skills.

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I think you missunderstood lol

I was saying: Healers "have to do" 2 jobs at once: Healing and Dpsing?
But DPS/Tank classes only DPS/Tank and dont heal the party? They only do 1 thing?

In Short
(In dungeons: )
Healers = Healers
Not Healers = DPS + Healer class

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

I think you missunderstood lol

I was saying: Healers "have to do" 2 jobs at once: Healing and Dpsing?
But DPS/Tank classes only DPS/Tank and dont heal the party? They only do 1 thing?

In Short
(In dungeons: )
Healers = Healers
Not Healers = DPS + Healer class

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Tanks don't do DPS in this game? :) And Bards and Machinists don't use support abilities, because they're DDs and not support, obviously...

Sarcasm aside, all jobs in this game are meant to use all of their useful abilities in a way that's most beneficial to their party. There's no reasonable justification to limit your performance only to certain set of abilities - for any job.

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

I think you missunderstood lol

I was saying: Healers "have to do" 2 jobs at once: Healing and Dpsing?
But DPS/Tank classes only DPS/Tank and dont heal the party? They only do 1 thing?

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Most DPS have support skills they should be using. E4E, Goad, Virus, Mage's Ballad - thats not DPS, but they should be doing them. Should they not use those skills because they don't do damage? Plus, proper DPS rotations are harder than any healers'.

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

I think you missunderstood lol

I was saying: Healers "have to do" 2 jobs at once: Healing and Dpsing?
But DPS/Tank classes only DPS/Tank and dont heal the party? They only do 1 thing?

In Short
(In dungeons:)
Healers = Healers
Not Healers = DPS + Healer class

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Tanks have DPS stances currently and that trend continues in Stormblood. Unlike healers they still have to shift between the two. What they did for us starting in Stormblood is made it so that we don't have to cripple our healing ability to use our DPS skills. Our damage will scale off mind so 'stopping dps' will be as easy as cancelling our cast and tossing out a heal. No more worrying about switching stances and someone dying before you can get a heal out.

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

I was saying: Healers "have to do" 2 jobs at once: Healing and Dpsing?
But DPS/Tank classes only DPS/Tank and dont heal the party? They only do 1 thing?

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Think of it less like having to perform two roles, and more like "everyone else is hitting something every 2.5 seconds, I only have to heal like three times per minute, and I have these skills at my disposal that are useful, so why not use them?"

All of those damage skills are part of the job, and it's not like you're expected to dps in the same way a dps does, with a rotation and cooldowns and all that jazz. You aren't ACTUALLY performing two roles at all.

Nobody is going to force you to DPS, but they reserve the right to vote kick for not doing it as always. I don't know why someone would enjoy standing around doing nothing half the time.

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

I think you missunderstood lol

I was saying: Healers "have to do" 2 jobs at once: Healing and Dpsing?
But DPS/Tank classes only DPS/Tank and dont heal the party? They only do 1 thing?

In Short
(In dungeons: )
Healers = Healers
Not Healers = DPS + Healer class

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As a SCH I can dps the WHOLE TIME in dungeons, I just cast Adloquium and Stoneskin before pulls, because Eos' regen is strong enough to let me dps as much as I want without casting a single heal in the whole dungeon.
Same with AST regen ^

So by your logic, as a healer, I should do nothing the whole dungeon but cast a single heal before every pull. That's like 5 or 6 spells in 15 minutes, or you have been active 12~seconds in 15 minutes. If that isn't lazyness I don't know what it is.

And nothing of value was lost in fact healers gained some more value. I might actually play healer classes more now.