Advanced dungeons

We don't even need massively variety, random path sprawling dungeons to make them interesting. The dungeon design has gone downhill in general from actual imaginative ideas to A to B corridors disguised with pretty visuals. Remember haukke manor where you had to collect the keys? Remember wanderers palace which was a mini stealth mission to get past tonberries? Even if we had a dungeon like LotA where you could choose the order that you beat the bosses it would make for a far more interesting dungeon design without impacting formula

Well, we can run the same dungeons but hve the mobs hit harder with higher HP.
Like when you can do the same levequests but +1 up to +4.

EXP should increase too. For example we have a dungeon every few levels but we can increase the difficulty to match our current level.
This can only be done with a fixed party though.

I would love a system like this basicly a challenge mode for dungons but haveing more mechanics / options in said dungon would be fantastic

Whoa man you want them to step away from easy reskinnable hallway(trashmob)->small room(boss)->longer hallway(trashmob)->small room(boss) formula and try something new? you crazy

Anyway this idea came from a F2P MMO and maybe try adding bonuses, usually these bonuses were special bosses that were hidden or didnt show up in the quest log but during dungeons if you killed X number of mobs or collected X number of objects along the way or even just flipping a switch you would be given the option to fight a incredibly tough boss usually located somewhere off the path of the dungeon and it would drop rarer loot then what the dungeon gives, I always remember hearing the phrase during every dungeon run "Are we gonna do the Bonus?" it was always a mixed answer because of the difficulty the bonus bosses proved.

implementing this wouldnt drastically change the format nor would it impact players "Wanna do the Bonus" "No" "k"(exit). I dont think we can take the cookie cutter from this Sub-Based MMO and get them to try innovate

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

We don't even need massively variety, random path sprawling dungeons to make them interesting. The dungeon design has gone downhill in general from actual imaginative ideas to A to B corridors disguised with pretty visuals. Remember haukke manor where you had to collect the keys? Remember wanderers palace which was a mini stealth mission to get past tonberries? Even if we had a dungeon like LotA where you could choose the order that you beat the bosses it would make for a far more interesting dungeon design without impacting formula

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Players will just skip as much as they can to complete the dungeon as fast as they can.

Only need to collect 2 tiny keys to complete Haukke Manor. Heck return is used after the second boss to get to the final boss faster.
No need for the side chests in Brayflox so ignore the Goblins and Coeurl.
Qarn? Ignore the side rooms and the puzzle.

This happens with pretty every "interesting" dungeon from 2.0 and 2.1.

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

You say lazy, I say efficient.

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lol, fair enough

While I hate 1.0 and I want to stay deep under the dirt to rot through eternity I can agree I want to see more complex dungeons. A sense of exploration, danger and more complexity are most welcome.

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Originally Posted by Riardon

While I hate 1.0 and I want to stay deep under the dirt to rot through eternity I can agree I want to see more complex dungeons. A sense of exploration, danger and more complexity are most welcome.

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Oh, 1.0 was mostly shit, no argument there. Still, it had some nice stuff here and there I'd like to see return.

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

Players will just skip as much as they can to complete the dungeon as fast as they can.

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So? Not every run of a dungeon needs to be a brand new fulfilling experience that feels fresh every single time. Content gets old and people turn it into a routine, that is fine. This is not a reason why the devs should not design interesting dungeons that present new and fresh challenges from other dungeons, what we have now is the same A to B corridor (literally in the case of antitower) that is uninteresting and forgettable after just the first attempt.

I hate this argument because it degrades the entire game by saying "why try to make content good? people only want rewards"

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

So? Not every run of a dungeon needs to be a brand new fulfilling experience that feels fresh every single time. Content gets old and people turn it into a routine, that is fine. This is not a reason why the devs should not design interesting dungeons that present new and fresh challenges from other dungeons, what we have now is the same A to B corridor (literally in the case of antitower) that is uninteresting and forgettable after just the first attempt.

I hate this argument because it degrades the entire game by saying "why try to make content good? people only want rewards"

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Because it ended up being a waste of effort. All of that extra stuff built into Sastasha, Haukke, Brayflox, etc. essentially ended up being a waste of dev time, because everyone skips it constantly.

Those dungeons are still horribly linear, they just make it less obvious. Only Toto-Rak has an actual branching path, and it is small at that.

The game clearly lacks regarding dungeon contents, as many of you said it's basically rush from point A to B, pull as many mobs as you can and AOE them down. This has been like that for years now and I feel the concept has really gotten over used, especially when you have cleared those dungeons dozens of times.

A potential fix to this issue would be to include harder versions of these dungeons, with greater rewards, achievements for clearing those with a special comp, or killing a boss at a special time.. or finding a secret room that would appear randomly, offering a secret boss and extra loot. Not your average useless loot though, more like a minion or even a mount, glamour and extra tomes.
It doesn't even have to be a secret room, but one of the boss could be replaced by another, like the dragon that appears in brayflox longstop in the middle of the 3rd boss.

Those are just random ideas, but I feel it could add some diversity to the game.

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Originally Posted by Deithwen

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None of these rewards have worked so far.

There are achievements for mapping out every dungeon. How many does your average player have? Only the ones from linear dungeons.

There are minions in off-the-path chests in some dungeons (AV and AK, IIRC both have minions that only spawn in specific chests). The only time I saw anyone grab the chest was when I did it.

There's a secret fourth boss in Halatali, loot and all. I've only ever killed it once.

While I would like something like this, it is more probable than won't worth the investment at all. People is always looking that way to simplify everything. And reduce it to become a speed-run. There is already some dungeons with alternative paths at game launch. But they stop making them because no one care. Everyone follows a straight line in order to finish as soon as possible. The reason we don't have more labyrinthian dungeons or with more options is the behavior of players. They carefully study this to design the dungeons. So in the end, we get what we do. Probably they know don't worth making such dungeons, as people will try to speed-run and simplify as much as possible.

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

Because it ended up being a waste of effort. All of that extra stuff built into Sastasha, Haukke, Brayflox, etc. essentially ended up being a waste of dev time, because everyone skips it constantly.

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The real waste of effort is making bland cookie cutter corridors that players do not enjoy playing.

Also, what time frame are you using? any time after the initial 3-4 months that the content is out is when the content is outdated (thus speedrunnable). I remember wanderers palace being interesting and unique long after the initial 3 months. As for Haukke manor, it isn't the picking up of the keys that is interesting, rather the dungeons level design; the dungeon feels like a sprawling house, not a corridor, regardless of whether you speedrun it or not.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

The real waste of effort is making bland cookie cutter corridors that players do not enjoy playing.

Also, what time frame are you using? any time after the initial 3-4 months that the content is out is when the content is outdated (thus speedrunnable). I remember wanderers palace being interesting and unique long after the initial 3 months.

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Wanderer's Palace had rewards on side paths (relic weapon component mats) and invulnerable mobs that could one shot almost everyone.

Save for the Tonberry Stalkers, Wanderer's Palace is close to one of the worst examples of what you are talking about.

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As for Haukke manor, it isn't the picking up of the keys that is interesting, rather the dungeons level design; the dungeon feels like a sprawling house, not a corridor, regardless of whether you speedrun it or not.

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Haukke Manor is a chain of corridors. The only reason it doesn't feels like that to some is due to the the short cuts that open up and the back tracking through the areas you already passed through to get to the next. Players actually complained about the back tracking until using /return to get back to the start became widespread knowledge.