Lackluster Graphics in FFXIV

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Originally Posted by h2o

WTF?! WoW have "real-pictured" pretty well graphic, much better then in FFXIV!? Seeya, obviously?"

Look to Gridania water... and LL water is so deep (you can feel it). Game graph is great, IT'S obviously.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4Ut0Lwi_2s
Yes you are right, it's the deep water that makes the effects not so special.

@ the OP:

The reason why FFXIV's graphics aren't as good as a single-player game's graphics is because it's an MMO. An MMO requires loading large numbers of character models in addition to scenery in a timely fashion that won't drag down FPS. You would have to have pretty much the best computer on the market to run a game that looked like crysis and had multiple people running around. It just can't be done without lowering some other aspects of the game, whether it be repeating textures or lowering poly-count of player models and scenery.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

So, you ran out of arguments. What's the next ultra-negative trolltopic? Give us a teaser.

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You're trying to convince everyone that the 2005 tech-demo is a pre-rendered cinematic. There's no way to speak to that on an intellectual level.

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Originally Posted by BelgianRofl

You're trying to convince everyone that the 2005 tech-demo is a pre-rendered cinematic. There's no way to speak to that on an intellectual level.

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YOU ignored me thrice already. I asked you to supply us with a link that shows it is not a pre-rendered cinematic

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Originally Posted by BelgianRofl

You're trying to convince everyone that the 2005 tech-demo is a pre-rendered cinematic. There's no way to speak to that on an intellectual level.

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You're the only one around here that's convinced that it's not.

That picture made me ROFL.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

You're the only one around here that's convinced that it's not.

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ask your linkshell.

I mean does he not read all posts? I'm about to slap a b*tch >.>

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Originally Posted by DeadRiser

I mean does he not read all posts? I'm about to slap a b*tch >.>

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Typical trolling strategy. Selectively ignoring posts.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Typical trolling strategy. Selectively ignoring posts.

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Lol he doesn't like a taste of his own troll medicine does he?

Level of detail distance slider {Yes please.}

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Typical trolling strategy. Selectively ignoring posts.

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Yeah, gave him some awesome troll titles including Gaffle Master and I got nothing. /sigh

Entertainment... value... fading...

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The reason why FFXIV's graphics aren't as good as a single-player game's graphics is because it's an MMO.

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SO, OK! Let's go!!!!

Dragon Age II ("BEST" RPG) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3JuINpKgXA
FFXIV ("Worst" MMORPG) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iT1r6Uux6Vk

Brutal guy with big sword VERSUS children! Who win?

i say you - advertisement only.

PS
Ya. FF XIV more RPG style game that many of current games, but forget it cz you never read it ;-)
Most important issues are: jumping, water, INTERFACE! What next? Bahamut shoelaces untied?
This is a circus, and you know why =\

I've lost faith in humanity. Abigale is either successfully trolling me by persistently taking the position that the 2005 tech demo is pre-rendered, or he is just really, really dumb. I hope to God he's just trolling.

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Originally Posted by BelgianRofl

I've lost faith in humanity. Abigale is either successfully trolling me by persistently taking the position that the 2005 tech demo is pre-rendered, or he is just really, really dumb. I hope to God he's just trolling.

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Unfortunately for you, the fact that you cannot (or don't want to) accept the truth (and can't even learn to spell people's names), doesn't mean that such truth doesn't exist.

The only things I dislike about FFXIV's graphics are the rendering of water and how there are low-res textures in the background which make a distinctive line as you move around.

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Originally Posted by Shelia

@ the OP:

The reason why FFXIV's graphics aren't as good as a single-player game's graphics is because it's an MMO. An MMO requires loading large numbers of character models in addition to scenery in a timely fashion that won't drag down FPS. You would have to have pretty much the best computer on the market to run a game that looked like crysis and had multiple people running around. It just can't be done without lowering some other aspects of the game, whether it be repeating textures or lowering poly-count of player models and scenery.

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That's not entirely true. Many MMO's are being developed on Cryengine 3 and Unreal and maintain a good level of quality. ArcheAge, Blade & Soul, TERA,and an unamed MMO from CHangyou are some examples of games with excellent graphics. Maybe they aren't to the standard of Crysis as a single player game but they are on par with FFXIV I would say. The engines I mentioned above are also much more stable and run more efficiently than Crystal Tools does. I don't know if you've seen any videos for those games but they don't suffer the same problems as FFXIV do and also have seemless environments and can be run on computers with lower specs than the minimum for FFXIV.

I like the graphical style of FFXIV but the quality of the engine is not so great.

I mean you're probably right as far as engines go. Some of them run MUCH more efficiently than others. However, I am correct in the sense that MMOs take more CPU than a single-player game due to loading more character models, scenery and what-have-you.

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Originally Posted by Shelia

I mean you're probably right as far as engines go. Some of them run MUCH more efficiently than others. However, I am correct in the sense that MMOs take more CPU than a single-player game due to loading more character models, scenery and what-have-you.

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Yeah that's true, but it doesn't really excuse FFXIV's ineptitute at rendering water and such. Especially on the boat which is merely an instance anyway.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

That's not entirely true. Many MMO's are being developed on Cryengine 3 and Unreal and maintain a good level of quality. ArcheAge, Blade & Soul, TERA,and an unamed MMO from CHangyou are some examples of games with excellent graphics. Maybe they aren't to the standard of Crysis as a single player game but they are on par with FFXIV I would say. The engines I mentioned above are also much more stable and run more efficiently than Crystal Tools does. I don't know if you've seen any videos for those games but they don't suffer the same problems as FFXIV do and also have seemless environments and can be run on computers with lower specs than the minimum for FFXIV.

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Using an engine instead of another doesn't automatically make for better graphics. Engines can be and have to be downscaled considerably in order to fit a game or a platform, and all the games you listed run on extremely downscaled engine, and feature a much lower level of detail and field of view than FFXIV.
They simply don't push the graphical envelope nearly as much as FFXIV.

Games with absolutely crappy graphics like Magna Carta 2 run on unreal. So no, running on a certain generic engine isn't any guarantee of higher level graphics. Quite the contrary, the more genric an engine is, the more third party companies will have to struggle to adapt it to their needs.
Using the Cryengine won't make the game automatically look like Crysis, and using the Unreal Engine won't make the game look like Unreal. Engines are a basic canvas, but each game requires different specs, enables different effects, and ultimately (besides extremely low budget games) run on a version of the engine purposedly customized for that game's requirements.
Even Crytech games and Epic games don't look nearly as good, in their finished status, as the engine tech demos. That's because even for their main games the actual developers of the engine itself have to considerably downscale the engine in order for it to run on commercially available machines.

Most companies that use generic engines like Unreal or Cryengine do so not because they are necessarily better, but simply because it's way cheaper than developing their own.

There isn't a single word in what Shelia said that isn't perfectly true.

It's true... particularly for instances.

FFXIV was in development since 2005, however... so we can't entirely expect the engines to be top notch.

Or can we?

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it doesn't really excuse boat which is merely an instance anyway

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boat which is merely an instance

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boat which is merely

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boat is instance

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We will pray for you, be sure, bro!

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Originally Posted by Kotee

The water GFX are sub-par. But characters, monsters, and the terrain look fantastic!

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Sub-par?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58Loj...eature=related

Look at this one in HD. Obviously the FPS is not optimal for either the guy's machine or maybe just for the video, but the water looks beautiful when you set just decently high graphic display configuration

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Originally Posted by northernsky

Sub-par?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58Loj...eature=related

Look at this one in HD. Obviously the FPS is not optimal for either the guy's machine or maybe just for the video, but the water looks beautiful when you set just decently high graphic display configuration

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The water in this cutscene isn't too bad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hagLejQiqEQ

But in actualy gameplay it looks pretty crap, compared to this, for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBcPT...4EF029290AAA16

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuomU...eature=related

I, too, would like to see evidence that the tech demo isn't pre-rendered.
I've looked all over Youtube and haven't found anything beyond this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgtZvn5c4e4
The photograph used for comparison in the original post seems to have been taken from this cinematic.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

The water in this cutscene isn't too bad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hagLejQiqEQ

But in actualy gameplay it looks pretty crap

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The water is exactly the same, as the FFXIV cutscenes are entirely in-engine. You're just seeing it from a different angle, which means that reflections and lighting react differently.

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compared to this, for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBcPT...4EF029290AAA16

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuomU...eature=related

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Funny. Since that water is actually quite a lot simpler, and not even reflective. The effect is nice, especially the waves, but it's not exceptional engine-wise.
You're associating your personal taste to absolute terms like "crap".

The water in FFXIV usually looks pretty decent, but I have found it a bit odd that it can't receive shadows or reflections. I'm not sure why this is, but I think it would be worth looking into sometime in the future.

Yeah, those graphics are pretty lame. Honestly, I blame your crappy PC. XIV looks amazing on my system with everything on max settings and a 1920 resolution. This isn't taking into account that the game is an MMO which typically has graphics below that of single player games.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_N..._08_26_495.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_N..._10_24_384.jpg

Get a job and upgrade your hardware. =]

Well... as a student in video games, I just want to say that the Crystal Tool engine used for FFXIV is just a crappy unoptimised one. Just because Crystal tool was first made for PS3 system (remember GTA4 on pc ? It was the same problem....).

So, my PS3 can run FFXIII in FHD wich have a lot more visuals effect than FFXIV on a GPU 7950gtx, but my PC can't run FFXIV more than 1600x1050px with less than medium graphics options because it freeze/ram ?
Don't make me laugh.
Moreover, my PC can run Crysis in FHD with ultra graphics options (and believe me, there's much more polygons than in FFXIV with 1000 soldiers, and the map are very huge too).

So, yeah as a student on video games, I know that we can't do a MMO with crysis-like graphics.
But you can't say that the Crystal Tool version used for FFXIV is well optimised. Seriously, if I just try to run Ambiant Occlusion or Depth of Field, It freeze/ram so much that the game is unplayable.

If SE optimise the Crystal Tool engine, they'll perfectly be able to add some more effect like terrain shadows, or volumetric light.

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Originally Posted by Rhianu

The water in FFXIV usually looks pretty decent, but I have found it a bit odd that it can't receive shadows or reflections. I'm not sure why this is, but I think it would be worth looking into sometime in the future.

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Some effects have to be deactivated in order to save hardware resources. The crystal tools engine is perfectly able to render those effects, as single player games made with it demonstrate (Final Fantasy XIII for instance), this doesn't mean that it's advisable to use them in games that require the rendering of scenes with a much higher number of characters. Put a whole linkshell of people on water with a fully reflective effect and shadows, and any pc would be ground to a halt.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Funny. Since that water is actually quite a lot simpler, and not even reflective.

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Funny again .. where do you see reflective water on FFXIV ? there just a white effect. but no reflection. I never saw the reflection of the boat in the water in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Wenceslas

Well... as a student in video games, I just want to say that the Crystal Tool engine used for FFXIV is just a crappy unoptimised one. Just because Crystal tool was first made for PS3 system (remember GTA4 on pc ? It was the same problem....).

So, my PS3 can run FFXIII in FHD wich have a lot more visuals effect than FFXIV on a GPU 7950gtx, but my PC can't run FFXIV more than 1600x1050px with less than medium graphics options because it freeze/ram ?
Don't make me laugh.
Moreover, my PC can run Crysis in FHD with ultra graphics options (and believe me, there's much more polygons than in FFXIV with 1000 soldiers, and the map are very huge too).

So, yeah as a student on video games, I know that we can't do a MMO with crysis-like graphics.
But you can't say that the Crystal Tool version used for FFXIV is well optimised. Seriously, if I just try to run Ambiant Occlusion or Depth of Field, It freeze/ram so much that the game is unplayable.

If SE optimise the Crystal Tool engine, they'll perfectly be able to add some more effect like terrain shadows, or volumetric light.

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You have quite evidently a LOT more to study. Sorry to burst a bubble here but being a "student" doesn't give you any professional knowledge on something (without mentioning that "bragging" to be a student of anything on the internets doesn't give you any authority).

FFXIII running on your PS3 needs to display a MUCH lower number of characters (and as such polygons) than a MMORPG needs to display.
The same could be said for crysis. And this has already been mentioned multiple times during the thread, so you're a bit late.

Might want to go back on the books.
A first post boasting your student curriculum and saying something completely nonsensical relayed to the topic you say you're studying is the perfect way to say "hello world!" :D

This, of course, if someone didn't just make an alternate account to troll further.

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Originally Posted by Wenceslas

Funny again .. where do you see reflective water on FFXIV ? there just a white effect. but no reflection. I never saw the reflection of the boat in the water in FFXIV.

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Where did I say there was any?

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

The water in this cutscene isn't too bad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hagLejQiqEQ

But in actualy gameplay it looks pretty crap, compared to this, for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBcPT...4EF029290AAA16

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuomU...eature=related

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Really? Do you play it? Do you see it by your own or just some vid?
It's really cool example cz i play it. This game requires (much!) more strong machine that FFXIV, it's have cool farthest background (as you can see), but -> plastic+plastilin engine + korean design and detailing of the character significantly worse.

ArcheAge -> korean realize may be in 2012 or maybe later, and when english version come?

AoC too have cool water, but it's like a jelly.

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Originally Posted by Wenceslas

Well... as a student in video games, I just want to say that the Crystal Tool engine used for FFXIV is just a crappy unoptimised one. Just because Crystal tool was first made for PS3 system (remember GTA4 on pc ? It was the same problem....).

So, my PS3 can run FFXIII in FHD wich have a lot more visuals effect than FFXIV on a GPU 7950gtx, but my PC can't run FFXIV more than 1600x1050px with less than medium graphics options because it freeze/ram ?
Don't make me laugh.
Moreover, my PC can run Crysis in FHD with ultra graphics options (and believe me, there's much more polygons than in FFXIV with 1000 soldiers, and the map are very huge too).

So, yeah as a student on video games, I know that we can't do a MMO with crysis-like graphics.
But you can't say that the Crystal Tool version used for FFXIV is well optimised. Seriously, if I just try to run Ambiant Occlusion or Depth of Field, It freeze/ram so much that the game is unplayable.

If SE optimise the Crystal Tool engine, they'll perfectly be able to add some more effect like terrain shadows, or volumetric light.

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so, is that like a two-year vocational degree from a tech school or something? it doesn't give you any credibility i am afraid.

anyway, i'll give you that ambient occlusion isn't working properly. however, depth of field isn't a resource hog at all. i get 60 fps with it on no problem.

For the record, and correct me if I'm wrong, but FFXIII wasn't FHD, it ran upscaled from 720p. Not that it matters much, as it's already been pointed out comparing single player games to MMOs is apples to oranges.

Also, the Crystal Tools engine wasn't even finished in 2005, there's no way that's running in-game. It's likely that prerendered cutscenes (a specialty of S-E) were one of the first things locked down in Crystal Tools, which they then used to show off their engine.

FFXIV looks amazing, no other MMO looks this good.
OP point = failed.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

You have quite evidently a LOT more to study. Sorry to burst a bubble here but being a "student" doesn't give you any professional knowledge on something (without mentioning that "bragging" to be a student of anything on the internets doesn't give you any authority).

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Well I never said it'll give me any authority. And yeah, being student give me some more professional knowlege, thank's to internship as example. An old work btw : http://www.moddb.com/mods/my-wonderful-nightmare

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Originally Posted by Abriael

FFXIII running on your PS3 needs to display a MUCH lower number of characters (and as such polygons) than a MMORPG needs to display.
The same could be said for crysis. And this has already been mentioned multiple times during the thread, so you're a bit late.

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NO WAY §§§ As if I dunno it §§§ omagad, MMOs get lot more of charas to display than single players games ? What an illumination. seriously.

More seriously, I never said FFXIV should be as beautiful as crysis (read me again).
Finally, I just said that Crystal Tool engine isn't optimised for pc, and they should do it, then, they'll be able to add some more effect. I never said something else than optimise CTEngine and adding some more effect.

'cause even if a mmo need to display more charas, well, FFXIV haven't got this much polygons to display. When I read your post, I read " FFXIV is the game who have the highest quantity of polygons diplayed at time. " but when I play, even if theres a lot of people around, it not make this much polygons to display... So this is the reason why I am disappointed. How a game with this empty (empty of polys and of effect) can't run well on my pc (which cost $2500, even if it was 3 years ago).

well this is from 2009 E3 , and sonys press confrence
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puOiYZE7B1w

its from 2009 but is the same as the PC data from 2005.

Now the graphix in this MMO to me are the same as say SOCOM:Confrentation PS3

Now keep inmind that a MMO has meny layers , more moving objects then 16 or 32 people running on one pre loaded map. Where everything changes and noting is the same with reguards to environment. If this games wasent taxing on your GPU then you wouldent have needed to upgrade or buy a new GPU to run the game. i use a HD6500 on full setting and the game looks amazeing. Now what is lacking is the spell graphix , and weapon skills that i will agree is lackluster. When someone casts tornado i wanna see a huge ass tornado like in 11 not what thay have now in 14 thats ghetto.

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Originally Posted by Wenceslas

Well I never said it'll give me any authority.

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Then why did you mention it? :D

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And yeah, being student give me some more professional knowlege, thank's to internship as example. An old work btw : http://www.moddb.com/mods/my-wonderful-nightmare

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being able to work on a mod doesn't give you any professional knowledge. Modding is, by definition, amateur work.

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NO WAY §§§ As if I dunno it §§§ omagad, MMOs get lot more of charas to display than single players games ? What an illumination. seriously.

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maybe you need to learn to express yourself in a more clear manner, because everyone felt that you didn't know.
Actually, it still looks like you don't :D

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More seriously, I never said FFXIV should be as beautiful as crysis (read me again).
Finally, I just said that Crystal Tool engine isn't optimised for pc, and they should do it, then, they'll be able to add some more effect. I never said something else than optimise CTEngine and adding some more effect.

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And of course you had a chance to closely examine the Crystals Tools engine to be able to say that, rite?

When we see another MMORPG out there that can display the same polygons, details and effects as FFXIV does, with better framerates on the same machines, then we'll see.
For now, everything else the market offers has a way inferior definition, and even future releases shown so far don't get to the level of definition FFXIV reaches.

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Originally Posted by DarkRain

well this is from 2009 E3 , and sonys press confrence
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puOiYZE7B1w

its from 2009 but is the same as the PC data from 2005.

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Nope. The only parts of that teaser that aren't pre-rendered footage are actually present in the game we have now. As they are part of the Limsa Lominsa in-engine intro.
You might have missed it.

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Originally Posted by Meleena

FFXIV looks amazing, no other MMO looks this good.
OP point = failed.

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:) This. Short, and to the point.

The graphics are exactly what I would expect from FF. I'm certainly not worried about little errors that can be fixed in time.

It seems to me you are looking for reasons to put this game down. I really don't understand why you are trying so hard, especially when there are bigger issues at hand that are easily validated. If I wanted to, I'm sure I could easily come up with more valid nitpicks than these on a number of successful mmos. If you hate FF so much, why are you here?