Jobs are balanced equally and no class is considered meta.

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Originally Posted by Isala

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lmao read the OP again, I was the MCH.

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Originally Posted by xxczx

lmao read the OP again, I was the MCH.

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So you already know whoever you shot was terrible if they let you light them up like that. So why make this thread?

MCH is broken in the PvP meta as a whole.

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Originally Posted by Isala

If you were a DPS... Why did you let the MCH open up on you, instead of destroying him while he had Blood for Blood up? Or, I don't know... Using any of your stuns/knockbacks/binds.... ANYTHING ELSE to get away?

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Blood for blooding when you are getting attacked is a huge no, and MCH doesn't require it to effectively burst/kill someone. If we are assuming that good players should be able to handle MCH with ease, we have to also assume the MCH atleast knows basic 101 pvp info.

MCH has all three of the cc listed above on relatively short cds and more. Making it easier for them to both catch people and kite easily.

Absolutely hilarious that people think MCH is fine.

https://media.giphy.com/media/140QBHji4Xe5he/giphy.gif

I don't know what you guys are talking about, MCH looks completely balanced to me.

https://i.gyazo.com/c5dce5428ba1075a...f7c87ed97f.gif

rip gold may he stfu in pieces 1 like 1 prayer ):

https://i.gyazo.com/5a4a21482e7d8a41...44aefcbfd7.gif

{same.}

I hope BTE nerf wasn't because of this thread :D. If I'd mained MCH in PvP I'd keep my mouth shut about all these easy kills

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Originally Posted by Wegente

I don't know what you guys are talking about, MCH looks completely balanced to me.

https://i.gyazo.com/c5dce5428ba1075a...f7c87ed97f.gif

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I mean, I suppose taking 6 seconds to kill a Diurnal AST who didn't disable you, or do anything but run away and Tetra. proves something... Mostly that people are really, really bad in PvP. But, as people have said, a BRD can do that in the spam of 2.5 seconds... So... How is MCH OP?

Because BRD is one of the easiest jobs to negate. You realize the vid was 6s but the burst was 1.5s, right? Should we be counting the time it takes a bard to get two dots rolling, to pop their buffs, and their cast time?

BRD is not OP.

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Originally Posted by Isala

I mean, I suppose taking 6 seconds to kill a Diurnal AST who didn't disable you, or do anything but run away and Tetra. proves something... Mostly that people are really, really bad in PvP. But, as people have said, a BRD can do that in the spam of 2.5 seconds... So... How is MCH OP?

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In most cases, you're not going to have time to prepare yourself and sufficiently mitigate yourself for a random MCH or Bard coming in.
Heck, did you see how fast his HP went down? Essentially diginity can't even heal you that damn fast because server ticks, there was nothing he could do, especially if he already blew attunement.

Also I'm pretty sure the consensus is MCH AND Bard is OP.

With that said, oh look, MCH was nerfed! Almost as if it was needed or something.

In the patch notes:

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Between the Eyes
Potency when target is bound, stunned, or asleep has been reduced from 3 times normal damage to 2.5 times normal damage.

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http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...446.1489148083

Yay, all the noobs whining has lead to a nerf... and yet melee LB still does 9k...

If only it did 9k normally...

If you think mch is balanced...

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

Yay, all the noobs whining has lead to a nerf... and yet melee LB still does 9k...

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You're comparing a LIMIT BREAK, to a normal job rotation?
This is why we can't balance things in PvP for crap.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

You're comparing a LIMIT BREAK, to a normal job rotation?
This is why we can't balance things in PvP for crap.

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No I'm comparing a limit break to an ability that requires every single MCH buff including a 3 min one, has special requirements in bind, sleep or stun, 2 of which can be broken by other people attacking and requires a critical hit which has about a 1 in 3 chance of proccing all of that to still do LESS damage than the melee LB which is basically stun + win button. Yeah, totally OP.

Mfw cc requirement for bte is brought up. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Cabalabob

Yay, all the noobs whining has lead to a nerf... and yet melee LB still does 9k...

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Why can't we admit that both are stupidly broken and need to be looked at? They're not mutually exclusive when it comes to balance.

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Originally Posted by KusoWat

Because BRD is one of the easiest jobs to negate. You realize the vid was 6s but the burst was 1.5s, right? Should we be counting the time it takes a bard to get two dots rolling, to pop their buffs, and their cast time?

BRD is not OP.

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dots are not needed for PvP, they can "one shot combo" without them, the only warning is the cast time on emp arrow, once that goes off, and you are not ready to heal it, even with Lustrate/ Benediction, the person is gone, unless tank.

Also between the eyes is more common around 2-5k, you guys are seeing rng damage spikes, MCH is pretty useless without it. Also melee LB/ latency issues are in need of more of addressing, maybe the server upgrade and move will help with being melee lbed 3 miles away and though a wall. I will never forget being IN SPRINT, while running AWAY from the person, BEFORE! the sound happened, and was released with me being behind one of those walls in feast. I am really dumbfounded how this game's latency is ssooo bad.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

dots are not needed for PvP, they can "one shot combo" without them, the only warning is the cast time on emp arrow, once that goes off, and you are not ready to heal it, even with Lustrate/ Benediction, the person is gone, unless tank.

Also between the eyes is more common around 2-5k, you guys are seeing rng damage spikes, MCH is pretty useless without it. Also melee LB/ latency issues are in need of more of addressing, maybe the server upgrade and move will help with being melee lbed 3 miles away and though a wall. I will never forget being IN SPRINT, while running AWAY from the person, BEFORE! the sound happened, and was released with me being behind one of those walls in feast. I am really dumbfounded how this game's latency is ssooo bad.

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http://i.imgur.com/Aoa8CRD.png

If you are going to claim brd doesn't need dots, do a little more research before you make those statements. To say the only warning for brd burst is the cast time is also false. Their buffs (barrage mostly), position, dots, and cast time are all very telling. They have to be within 15y yalms for maximum damage, and because emp is also a cast time, if they want to kill a fleeing target, they have to get pretty close or bind (make their burst even more obvious) to 100 -> 0.

Sidewinder requires the dots to do efficient damage. Bard's burst combo is Emp Arrow -> Farshot -> Sidewinder -> Other attacks, sidewinder is the nail in the coffin of the burst combo. It speeds up the animation and damage application of farshot, it makes all of them land seamlessly and nearly the same time, creating the 100 -> 0 scenario.

BRD is the noob killer, only OP to the unknowing/lesser skill. At higher levels, BRD just gets shutdown, especially against a PLD/DRK. Meaning they have a 66% (theoretically) chance in feast games to go against a job that will negate them harshly.

Between the eyes prior to nerf commonly hit for 3-5.5k, buffed ones that is, as it should be. MCH is not useless without, granted it helps their toolkit, but they have more than just BTE going for them.

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Originally Posted by KusoWat

http://i.imgur.com/Aoa8CRD.png

If you are going to claim brd doesn't need dots, do a little more research before you make those statements. To say the only warning for brd burst is the cast time is also false. Their buffs (barrage mostly), position, dots, and cast time are all very telling. They have to be within 15y yalms for maximum damage, and because emp is also a cast time, if they want to kill a fleeing target, they have to get pretty close or bind (make their burst even more obvious) to 100 -> 0.

Sidewinder requires the dots to do efficient damage. Bard's burst combo is Emp Arrow -> Farshot -> Sidewinder -> Other attacks, sidewinder is the nail in the coffin of the burst combo. It speeds up the animation and damage application of farshot, it makes all of them land seamlessly and nearly the same time, creating the 100 -> 0 scenario.

BRD is the noob killer, only OP to the unknowing/lesser skill. At higher levels, BRD just gets shutdown, especially against a PLD/DRK. Meaning they have a 66% (theoretically) chance in feast games to go against a job that will negate them harshly.

Between the eyes prior to nerf commonly hit for 3-5.5k, buffed ones that is, as it should be. MCH is not useless without, granted it helps their toolkit, but they have more than just BTE going for them.

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I said you do not need dots in PvP to kill someone near instant, I am well aware of what that ability says. Really note how I said in PvP, in PvE of course you only use that with both dots on the target. I would not stand there saying "do a little more research before you make those statements." because you do not understand what I mean. The dots are of course helpful and easier but if you want to be a bit more unexpected, you do not need them. I am going by what I seen in pvp, not theroycrafting saying a potency 100 ability is useless.

Outside of Between the eyes MCH is useless and easy to heal through.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

I said you do not need dots in PvP to kill someone near instant, I am well aware of what that ability says. Really note how I said in PvP, in PvE of course you only use that with both dots on the target. I would not stand there saying "do a little more research before you make those statements." because you do not understand what I mean. The dots are of course helpful and easier but if you want to be a bit more unexpected, you do not need them. I am going by what I seen in pvp, no theroycrafting saying a potency 100 ability is useless.

Outside of Between the eyes MCH is useless and easy to heal through.

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What you are seeing in PvP are garbage Bards, if you want to be unexpected with your burst (with sidewinder, as it should have) you put dots on everyone, not forgo them entirely. That's idiotic at best. You should only ever use Sidewinder with dots, it's not just a PvE thing, it's both. I hope you aren't dying to Bards without buffed sidewinder.

For you to say Machinist is useless outside of BTE is only becoming satire at this point. Going based off by your experience with Bards, I see you only know terrible players, and that's fine. Just stop speaking of something you have limited experience of.

Emph Arrow is not the killer, the follow ups are the killer.

Sidewinder is a 260 pot skill with both DoTs up, please read tooltips miss I can heal MCH burst but not BRD.

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Originally Posted by KusoWat

What you are seeing in PvP are garbage Bards, if you want to be unexpected with your burst (with sidewinder, as it should have) you put dots on everyone, not forgo them entirely. That's idiotic at best. You should only ever use Sidewinder with dots, it's not just a PvE thing, it's both. I hope you aren't dying to Bards without buffed sidewinder.For you to say Machinist is useless outside of BTE is only becoming satire at this point. Going based off by your experience with Bards, I see you only know terrible players, and that's fine. Just stop speaking of something you have limited experience of.

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and what happens when you have a healer that is leeches them off? Also the thing is, with all the brd followups, you do not need it, if you barrage and emp arrow someone, and the healer is not expecting it, that person will die, dots or not. I do not know where you get off saying "Just stop speaking of something you have limited experience of" when it sounds like you are the one with limited experience. I healed though MCH just fine, I do not know where you are coming from with ".For you to say Machinist is useless outside of BTE is only becoming satire at this point." BRDs can do over 10k total of damage after a barrage emp-arrow follow up on all off-global cooldowns, without the dots, in pvp.

I am telling you the damage I seen, the stuff I healed though, you act ass I am playing a different game or something.

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Originally Posted by xxczx

Emph Arrow is not the killer, the follow ups are the killer.

Sidewinder is a 260 pot skill with both DoTs up, please read tooltips miss I can heal MCH burst but not BRD.

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same, kinda, with brd it depends, sometimes I can, sometimes I can't esp when they are trying to dot everyone, it is really slow that way. A brd playing mind games though is very scary, a MCH wasn't able pull off such things on me.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

and what happens when you have a healer that is leeches them off? Also the thing is, with all the brd followups, you do not need it, if you barrage and emp arrow someone, and the healer is not expecting it, that person will die, dots or not.

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There is this thing, called reapplication, in which it is possible to put dots back on a target, I know, mind BLOWN.

That healer must be absolutely awful. Letting themselves or teammates die to such a sub-par burst.

Please play with some good players, thank you.

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Originally Posted by KusoWat

There is this thing, called reapplication, in which it is possible to put dots back on a target, I know, mind BLOWN.

That healer must be absolutely awful. Letting themselves or teammates die to such a sub-par burst.

Please play with some good players, thank you.

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Same can be said about you.

What is your highest rating in Feast?

There's actually a really easy way to heal through MCH and BRD burst: Swiftcast Stone.

I am just going to say this since a point was missed and I wanted see how much the change may effected things.
The only way my friend on mch could kill me on all off globels and not be slow is having all buffs + precasted hotshot(i healed myself afterthat) stungun, inbetween the eyes and all the off global cooldowns she had. On brd all she had to do was use the attack buffs, barrage + emp arrow and all the off globals, she did not need the dots, she did not even need strightshot. A BRD is way faster at bursting then MCH is (actually she said one of them on brd wasn't needed) so brd kills with emp arrow +5ogcd while MCH was all her ogcd + normal attack. emp arrow is 1.45 sec, hotshot and whatever is 1.47. Even without hitting me with hotshot, (like hitting fairy) she needed more prep time on MCH to kill me then on brd.

Empyreal Arrow.
Ama Hamada takes 1629 damage.
Ama Hamada takes 1684 damage.
Ama Hamada takes 1670 damage.
Farshot.
Ama Hamada takes 2736 damage.
Sidewinder.
Ama Hamada takes 740 damage.
Blast Shot.
Critical! Ama Hamada takes 1970 damage.
you are defeated by BRD
(this confuses me since i got 10200 hp in pvp but whatever i guess i can test again)

So a MCH needs a bit of damage beforehand to kill me, the in between the eyes and all the ogcd is not enough where brd can do it without dots, just emp arrow and all the ogcds. I do not know what rank I got or being insulted has to do with me saying MCH is easier to heal though then BRD is, leaving me confused why people ate screaming nerf MCH and BRD is fine. MCH kills slower then BRD does.

But hey, I am just here saying MCH is easier to heal over then BRD is, no idea why get on my case about that, just because people want to complain about lucky damage spikes from inbetween the eyes. Seems MCH seems pretty useless now, maybe they kill fast with hypercharge now? idk

I can't with you any longer.

You know nothing about the strength of MCH vs BRD. Your data is heavily flawed, biased, and proves absolutely nothing. Your friend can just as easily be a good brd (although bursting without dots is suspect), and a god awful mch. Even then, the fact that you think burst starts from the ramp up, and not the burst itself is already mind boggling. Lack of experience in an actual competitive setting will continue to prevent you to see past the reality that is MCH > BRD.

Your rank has a lot to do with your opinion on the matter, it's not to insult you, but gauge your level. Since you don't know what your rank was, I'm going to assume very low or 0. You've only played with terrible players, and quite frankly, BRD is the noob killer, so of course you think it's OP/stronger than MCH. Most of the MCH at low elo are bad because BRD is an easier job to play in PvP than MCH.

Based on your past post, your stubborn nature to only see things in your own shoes, (albeit one inside a heavily dense fortress) you're never gonna witness the truth of the matter.


I ask that you atleast actually go out there past the wolves' den dueling circle, into some Feast games, get to Diamond, play actual players, then you can have an opinion.

Until then please refrain from spouting false claims so SE doesn't do unnecessary buffs/nerfs.






(Dying to a Bard (no dots)/MCH (no clean shot) in a scenario in which it's 1v1, I just can't stop laughing, please someone hold me.)

Um you are the one not giving any information.. so there is that..
I said it for a very long time MCH is way easier to heal though then BRD is and now with the nerf, even easier, lol

I healed though MCH meany times before update, I really do not see the big deal , but if you insist making a job useless , then by my guest?

Also having cleanshot ready means buffing before hand, that takes time, something you do not need on brd, you do not need the straight shot buff or the dots to kill someone, it is just a helper in case someone can react to it to heal over it. I do not know where you get off on when I saw it is clear to me a brd kills faster then a MCh does.

"Real examples" :rolleyes:

https://media.giphy.com/media/iuZVa3hUg8zoA/giphy.gif

Maybe I was wrong all this time, maybe Se has reasons in removing the chat. I am sitting here waiting for deeper explanations and real examples like I do, if you are going to brag about playing the best, you do not do a good job in showing it. How come we do not have deeper discussions on how to balance things instead of whiling about how rng can give high damage in between the eyes during calling time? 8k isbeyond the norm and it is questionable how that screenshot happened.

How about instead of "Until then please refrain from spouting false claims so SE doesn't do unnecessary buffs/nerfs." if you are such an expert how come you are not out there givin a deep analyst then? I am here trying and you are just here wasting people's time with insults and spam posts, like only posting a gif.

Maybe this is why PvP is so small, because so few want to deal with this inballanced game and get shut down when trying to speak on something just because you feel they are not good enough to speak out. Also I am shocked as hell you are picking on me for "Until then please refrain from spouting false claims so SE doesn't do unnecessary buffs/nerfs." and not the op, since you clearly shown and stated that damage is not normal.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

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Ama, I main BRD and I can tell you, it's burst on Impact is faster than MCH but MCH raw power is stronger. Alot stronger. You can kill without Sidewinder but only in these circumstances:
-Healer sucks
-Healer is sleeped
-Player has alot of stacks

BRD can only kill with its Barrage active and you only have 10secs to do it. BRD is easily beat by:
-PLDs Shield Bashing
-Warrior Stuns/Knockback
-Sleep
-Bind
-Running behind walls
-Virus(Unless you sacrifice a Purify)
-Enemy Purify

MCH has 20secs to burst, no DoTs to depend on, turret debuff lasts like 30secs, and they can do it move. Not only that, MCH has a stun(That BRD doesn't have), Silence, Heavy, Bind, Knockback, 5% magic/physical DPS down. Knockback on 25secs while BRD is 150secs long. MCH can effectively stop healers. MCH has alooot more utility.

A MCH can burst anyone they choose because they require no prep like a BRD. That's what makes a MCH worse. They could be attacking the healer with buffs up and boom you're dead. If a Bard fails the burst it's over for 90more secs.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

Maybe I was wrong all this time, maybe Se has reasons in removing the chat. I am sitting here waiting for deeper explanations and real examples like I do, if you are going to brag about playing the best, you do not do a good job in showing it. How come we do not have deeper discussions on how to balance things instead of whiling about how rng can give high damage in between the eyes during calling time? 8k isbeyond the norm and it is questionable how that screenshot happened.

How about instead of "Until then please refrain from spouting false claims so SE doesn't do unnecessary buffs/nerfs." if you are such an expert how come you are not out there givin a deep analyst then? I am here trying and you are just here wasting people's time with insults and spam posts, like only posting a gif.

Maybe this is why PvP is so small, because so few want to deal with this inballanced game and get shut down when trying to speak on something just because you feel they are not good enough to speak out. Also I am shocked as hell you are picking on me for "Until then please refrain from spouting false claims so SE doesn't do unnecessary buffs/nerfs." and not the op, since you clearly shown and stated that damage is not normal.

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The explanation as to why MCH is better is already in this very thread. Here just a refresher encase you missed it from the 2nd page.

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Originally Posted by TiramisuMacaron

1) mchs burst rotation 0 cast time, unlike bard. Mch has a 20s window to use burst, making it nigh impossible for 1 class to shutdown. Not needing 2 dots on the target also helps immensely.
2) mch has a vuneralbilty debuff that cannot be purified, that also helps melee.
3) mchs knockback is on a 30s cooldown instead of a forever cooldown. Bind[/Heavy] is also on a super low 20s cooldown. This is probably the most game breaking aspect of mch. Being able to shutdown a melee every 20s or knock a tank off of you before burst is extremely powerful.
4) mchs second burst is extremely more powerful than bards. Honestly I didn't even know a bard could burst more than one way, but I'll take your word for it.
5)mch has a lot more artistic freedom. You can play mindgames with your burst, whereas bard is very static.
6) You lose less in PvP having to mp song your turret than having to sing ballad.
7) mch is extremely more mobile than bard with gauss barrel on, making you lose way less damage while kiting than bard.
8) mch has an ogcd 3s AoE stun. No ranged dps can stun, no class outside of AST and WAR has an AoE ogcd stun. Mch is the only dps class that has this utility. It is insane.
9) brd silence is 1s every 30s. Mch is 2s every 25s. That extra 1s sometimes forces an ogcd whereas brds is just used as a mini interrupt.

There are more things that make mch extremely powerful compared to bard. If you are trying to argue brd is even close to mch in the current meta and this quick list didn't make you think otherwise, I am out of words. Mch so much stronger than any other ranged DPS it isn't even funny.

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Not even the full list.

Buff mnk please

this thread is a joke.

Buff supply boxes tbh

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Originally Posted by Yukumazi

this thread is a joke.

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Let the joke die then.