Please change Cleric Stance cooldown to on-deactivate

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Originally Posted by Tint

the point is you still can use your enmity combo while in damage stance. yo still can use your defensive cooldowns either. tank stance gets you some bonus enmity, some bonus mitigation and it lowers your damage output a bit.
but you can do damage in tank stance and you can tank without tank stance. as a healer you can't do that. you can't heal in cleric, except for benediction and your fairy. so yeah, it's not completely impossible xD but however, you can use your HoTs before you enter cleric, sure, like you can establish high enmity before dropping tank stance. but what when someone gets hit suddenly? you simply can't heal them. what when an add spawns or the boss casts a tankbuster? you just grab the add and pop a cooldown.
you lose your ability to heal in cleric and the ability to deal damage out of cleric, while a tank never loses the ability to get enmity, mitigate damage or deal damage.

so are tanks lazy? because they don't have to pay attention to the fight, right?

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You can still heal in Cleric Stance and you can still DPS out of it. It is much less efficient and not as useful, but you still can. And if you are having trouble with fights with 5 seconds of being locked out of healing than that is on you and your team mates. Nothing in this game requires you to be healing more often than 5 seconds at a time, and most things in this game do not require ANYONE to be at 100% health.

You are asking for the healing role to be made easier, why? For your own selfish reasons. Its silly that you think your reasoning is more sound than anyone elses, when it just isn't. You give examples of a tank doing what they can do, and literally talk about how healers are comparable but try and state that somehow a healer has it worse off and that they CAN'T do something that they literally CAN.

A tank can still do those things, yes, but they are not as effective. The reason Cleric Stance is HARSHER on a healer is because a healer has no rotations. For the most part. And a tank who is in DPS stance all the time will generate tons less enmity than those in tank stance. They don't lose the ability to generate it, but they aren't great at it. However a healer DOES NOT lose the ability to heal or DPS depending on CS. Stop saying they do.

Also, with the use of cooldowns, HoTs, and fairy one can do most content while permanently in Cleric Stance. Most things do not happen suddenly in this game, and if they do you always have time to switch and heal, or throw out an insta-cast. Get use to the lag, don't ask for it to be changed or removed.

Besides if it was changed you would be in here complaining you accidentally de-activate it all the time and have to wait the 5 seconds to reactivate it. lol Also what does any of this have to do with a tank being lazy? Healers have to pay attention to fights too. Like wut. If you aren't paying attention and get surprised by things often that, is again, on you not the game.

You're completely changing what I am trying to say Tint.

I was not talking about stances with Tanks, I was only talking about CS with healers and combos with tanks, first off, but sure let's talk about stances too. You have to know when to do everything properly with a tank. You need to know when it is best to do what combo and what stance to make the most out of your role. You basically want healers to become easy-mode and not be punished for making the wrong choice, yet tanks are still punished for not tanking properly? If you don't think that CS is good the way it is then you aren't practicing enough or don't understand the fights where people are dying. No attack from enemies in this game is random. Everything is predetermined and if someone is "randomly hit" or a tank buster "suddenly happens" that's on you. If you don't know what is going to happen then don't use CS. Why should tanks have to watch for tank buster to know when to properly use CDs yet healers should be allowed to fumble around?

All I see is "I don't like it, change it" instead of you actually trying to learn how to work with it. You have social anxiety? Okay? So why should they change CS just because you and a handful of other people don't like it? It clearly works, and is clearly made the way it is for a reason. And seriously, anyone who finds current CS hard to use is plainly (sorry if this seems harsh) bad. The game explains it to you, dungeons are not hard, and there are plenty of ways to reduce the amount of full on healing that you have to do like HoTs, shields, buffs...

You complain that you "Can't heal at all besides Bene in CS" yet you can drop CS, throw out an oCD spell, and then put CS back on. That is the way the stance is meant to work. Can you give me any reason outside you finding it clunky (which it isn't) that it should change? It is not difficult to learn, it makes sense, it makes the role more engaging, and it forces you to learn fights to maximize your proficiency.

And you clearly don't understand what I was saying when I was talking about moving the 5 second cd to the deactivation. You would be locked into healing-only for 5 seconds so you would have to decide when it is best to heal. Right now you have to decide when it is best to DPS. Do you understand how this would change healers? People already try to push ignoring healing as long as they can without killing their party, but if it was changed this would just be multiplied and healers would try to stay IN CS more often instead of getting locked into only-healing when it is not required. You may not understand this, but CS can be dropped to cast one healing spell (oCD or not) to top off someone and then reapplied. This can help keep your team alive while maximizing you DPS by staying in CS as long as possible. If they change the cd to deactivation that sort of strategy will disappear and you will have to wait for the 5 second to actually be fully used before it is proficient to heal anyone. For example: In an easy raid spamming dps. AoE from enemy goes off. Drop CS > Swiftcast > Medica2 > CS. Everyone will be healed up, I only used 2.5 seconds to heal, and I can go back to DPS. I would waste an entire gCD if the 5sec cd was on the deactivation. Healers would completely change how they play and would have to change how they plan fights.

I think when the servers are moved, this should fix the lag

A tank using cooldowns to actually do his primary role is not equivocable. A healer using the proper healing cooldowns to meet the demands of the healing threshold is what you are looking for. Actually healing would be the same as a tank doing doing this emnity skills. Placement is everyone's responsibility although a tank has a bit more here. If tanks ability to hold generate threat we're gutted by going into dps stance so they could dps you could then argue the similarities. Healers Cleric stance feels more it was designed to allow healers to solo initially rather being a primary mechanic meant to be juggled during combat.

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Originally Posted by Jkap_Goat

I think when the servers are moved, this should fix the lag

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I hope so, cause I can't be the only person having lag using their neighbour's WiFi from 2 blocks away on my PS3. #clerics2hard

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Originally Posted by Tint

exactly^^ laughable low heal requirements leading to much cleric uptime. but stance dancing is harder to achieve than straight healing, wich means the game is harder when the heal requirements are low. okay, someone could say low heal requirements are already easy, wich is somehow true, but nobody wants the healer staying around. that's not easy, that's playing the game wrong.
so, they can make it easier by increasing the heal requirements, wich would be my prefered way, but let's be honest - that will not happen. the other way is to make it easier to fill the downtime with dps by removing the whole stance dancing aspect.

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You are not making sense.
You complain about the job being easy, then argue it should be made easier.
You complain about there not being enough to heal, then push for a DPS increase.

The people who stand around and do nothing typically try to justify this arguing that they "are a healer". This will not change their justification and will have a minor, if any impact on the "heals only"

Cleric stance doesn't start brainless, which is a positive thing. As you get better at healing and get more familiar with estimating the amount of incoming damage, the more DPS you are able to do. This is a simple, but clever design IMO.

If you are having trouble with cleric stance, that is a good thing! You have something to work on. You have something to practice. Be thankful you still have some things to learn about the job!

You'd be surprised at the number of people who comment on jobs being "too easy" without actually bothering to play them in progression in raid content. Take it with a grain of salt.

Since tanking was brought into this discussion, it's worth noting that WAR's Defiance/Deliverance stances are on a shared 10 second recast. The lockout applies both ways (i.e. 10 seconds before you can turn it off, then another 10 seconds before you can turn it on again.) Cleric Stance is on a 5 second recast, and the lockout only applies one way. The main improvement that WAR's stances have to offer over Cleric Stance is that everything is clearly animated, so the stance shifts are obvious and you don't seem to run into issues where the stance deactivation feels "stuck". Based on recast, however, CS allows for easier switching.

While DRK and PLD have no recast tied to their stances, they are on the GCD and have MP costs tied in to them. You can call that an improvement if you like, but most DRKs would take on a recast if it meant getting an oGCD stance swap which didn't cost MP. PLDs would too, although the MP cost doesn't really matter to them.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

most DRKs would take on a recast if it meant getting an oGCD stance swap which didn't cost MP. PLDs would too, although the MP cost doesn't really matter to them.

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I think this is a bit of a different situation though because defiance and grit are different in more ways than GCDs and recasts.

Defiance doesn't really do anything on activation, and is less powerful than grit. Activating grit is an ehp increase

For example;
You are at 1 HP
Then receive a 16k heal
Then are hit by a 20k attack

With grit, the 20k attack is reduced to 16k. You can activate before or after the heal and you will survive.

Defiance must be activate prior to the heal to get anything at all. Defiance is off GCD because it needs to be activated before grit would. Further, even if defiance boosts the heal, the amount healed is 19.2k, so the WAR would die anyway.

I don't mind the cooldown on activate.. I just wish it would cooldown on deactivate as well. I've had it happen where I lag, or think I don't hit the button hard enough and end up reactivating it, getting myself stuck in cleric. No fun. :<