Why do tanks just leave at the start of duties?

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Originally Posted by Doozer

Like why play? Why do any of it? Play a single player game so you don't ruin other people's days.
I still can't believe that people prioritize the freedom of impatient tanks over the poor 3-7 other people that are now stuck with one less tank (or no tank at all). How do you justify that?

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I'm not prioritizing any single group over another. What I'm saying applies to any and all players in the duty finder, including you. There is just a spotlight on tanks because of how few there are in comparison to DPS. No one signs in blood when they hit that button they have to stay, it's just a matching system. Yes it sucks, but to PUNISH people for leaving? Come on.

Now if we were talking about a preformed raid group that had agreed to be somewhere at a certain time and didn't show, that's an entirely different thing and I'd agree with you.

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Originally Posted by ananda

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Perhaps a more serious penalty if they do it a certain amount of time within a week or something. Like if they leave and incur a penalty more than 3 times between weekly resets, they get a full 24 ban from duties or something. I'm sure the people who will argue against this idea are the ones that would do it anyway. But punishment for ruining people's time should be more serious, since lately I'm paying real life money to stand around and wait for a tank that was too afraid to do an easy duty because it was longer than 15 minutes. I could get the same effect from just flushing my money down a toilet.

By adding more penalties you will just be thinning out the number of tanks who will run things outside of a premade group.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

In other news, obeying real life laws is coercion because you might get punished if you break them.

Well then I should be able to tick a box when I queue that allows me to be queued with people who want to play the game they're logged in to, instead of being too afraid to do a duty that's longer than 15 minutes. Like why play? Why do any of it? Play a single player game so you don't ruin other people's days.

I still can't believe that people prioritize the freedom of impatient tanks over the poor 3-7 other people that are now stuck with one less tank (or no tank at all). How do you justify that?

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*Sucks in breath*

This is so inane. Why play? I was not aware FF14's gaming reasons boiled down to only doing DF.

I too can make an exaggerated claim like "If people feel like their day is ruined because a tank quit at the start of DF, maybe they should quit and play a single player game so they avoid feeling that way."

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Originally Posted by ShadowYomi

By adding more penalties you will just be thinning out the number of tanks who will run things outside of a premade group.

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Well, at least the ones I get matched with will actually do the thing they got put into.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

Well, at least the ones I get matched with will actually do the thing they got put into.

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What is the point of this post exactly? This is a gripe.

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Originally Posted by Reaperking386

What is the point of this post exactly? This is a gripe.

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Well if tanks can leave duties just 'cause they're too lazy, I'm allowed to gripe. Are you going to coerce me into posting things the right way? I'm allowed to respond to that the way I want, since it's what I think, and I'm not barred from doing that.

What's the point of your post? Seems like a gripe to me too.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

Well if tanks can leave duties just 'cause they're too lazy, I'm allowed to gripe. Are you going to coerce me into posting things the right way? I'm allowed to respond to that the way I want, since it's what I think, and I'm not barred from doing that.

What's the point of your post? Seems like a gripe to me too.

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People don't agree with me = better throw toxic replies.

This game isn't Punishment Simulator Online, you guys really need to chill with asking for (stronger) punishments for everything you don't like.

If you don't want to see people leaving duties then grab 3 friends and do all your duties premade.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

Well if tanks can leave duties just 'cause they're too lazy, I'm allowed to gripe. Are you going to coerce me into posting things the right way? I'm allowed to respond to that the way I want, since it's what I think, and I'm not barred from doing that.

What's the point of your post? Seems like a gripe to me too.

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You are just griping about tanks leaving, ignoring all reasonable consequences to your half $%^ idea of reporting them or extending their times to 1 hr.

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Originally Posted by Reaperking386

You are just griping about tanks leaving, ignoring all reasonable consequences to your half $%^ idea of reporting them or extending their times to 1 hr.

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Oh I see, you didn't really read anything that was said, that explains why you're so annoyed.

Also lmao at the other person saying to just "grab 3 friends" as if a) all my friends are online or b) any of my friends play this to begin with.

But whatever, I forgot only the really sensitive players post on the forums. No wonder why I don't come here at all. I asked a legitimate question and almost all I got was people saying we need to coddle tanks or they won't queue up anymore. Good thing I didn't know if they were a mentor or not, otherwise you guys would probably cause the site to crash when you all swarmed to defend these kinds of players. Bye, have fun arguing with no one.

It was not a question. It was salt.

If you dont like it then become a tank yourself. Problem solved. Then you dont have to worry about people leaving. And if people do leave you can just leave and get an instaqueue back into it.

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Originally Posted by Derio

If you dont like it then become a tank yourself. Problem solved. Then you dont have to worry about people leaving. And if people do leave you can just leave and get an instaqueue back into it.

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He claims he is a tank, but for some reason wants to make his problem everyone else's. Because punishing players who want to play a tank role is a good idea. Especially if that role is not favored.

"Except I do tank. Do you really think that one person being a good tank is going to magically make people stop being selfish in an online game? Those same people wouldn't ever even see me tanking 'cause they'd just leave right away anyway."

I'll admit I've left AV before when phasing in..... I hate that place with a passion. I can do something else during the 30min lockout.

Almost every time I've seen a player willing to eat the 30 minute penalty, it is almost always a tank main. They have the luxury to do this due to their short queue times, and it is not fair to the other members of the group, especially the DPS who have the longest queue times. They are also the least likely to get kicked for poor behavior due to how long it takes to get a tank to join an in-progress PT.

That said, it's been so seldom that I have had this actually happen to me that I don't consider it a very big problem, and for the devs it is probably in the suggestions box on the other side of the room from the tower of 'list of priorities' that has each one they take care of, replaced by three more. It is frustrating, no doubt. But I would almost always have a tank leave the instance immediately if they are not into it. This normally results in a huge amount of time added to the run anyway that negates, or even adds overall time to get the clear you are looking for.

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Originally Posted by Rosalynd

A: you underestimate the toxicity of the WoW playerbase and B: WoW had this thing where in progress groups got fill priority over new groups, so a new tank was always just seconds away if your group was already in the run.

This really was a crazy common tactic, especially during the cata/MoP days. Luckily the service kinda died with the cross realm group finder tool, you cant trade gold across servers.

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And that isn't the case in FFXIV. The group now gets into the queue behind everybody else to wait for a replacement tank.

Why would you report them for leaving? Who are you to force them to stay in a dungeon in a game they're paying to play without even knowing why they left? Scary thought process.

The only times I've left at the start is if I've noticed the group was going to be painful. I.e. undergeared people in AV without job stones for example.

Maybe people just change their mind, tanks are just easier to go through with it because they are gonna have an instant que after penalty.
The other day I was doing DR:Ex in Sohm Al, I was on DRG, we wiped at the last boss because healer and the other DPS weren't moving for leap and had the platform full of lava, and the other DPS sucked balls while at it, while I was missing positionals later on because I didn't have physical space to do them. I got mad at them in chat before we wiped and I got kicked by the tank because in his opinion we wiped because healer responded to me instead of healing... I got pretty mad, it was 3.20 am, I then proceded to argue with the tank over whispers. Then I qued again but with my tank que popped, I was still pissed off, I said "Actually, fuck this" in chat, left and went to sleep.

As someone who only plays DPS and heals I'll just leave at the start of a duty if it's something I hate too. Like the Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak. That dungeon can take a good 35+ minutes if there's sprouts in the party, the loot is worthless, and you can only use your most basic skills there. It's about as fun as a trip to the dmv.

Imo it's better for people to leave if it's a dungeon/trial they know they will hate instead of slogging through it at no personal benefit over and over again until they dread using roulettes at all. This is a video game it's supposed to be fun.

I don't think you can report someone for using a built in game mechanic that you don't like.

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Originally Posted by Titor

I don't think you can report someone for using a built in game mechanic that you don't like.

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right? they left the dungeon go replenish or be smart and leave the dungeon and either try agaom or something. This and certainly soon, is about as wrong a time to get anti tank as you can, and half of them have to pissed about the new jobs coming out. So either be the change you want to see, or keep whining abour rhe change thats happening while doing nothing about it.
tl;dr be a tank yourself. And make the difference that youre whining about

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Originally Posted by Titor

I don't think you can report someone for using a built in game mechanic that you don't like.

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That is like saying you can turn off the pc or fake a disconnect because it's a built in game mechanic (and i have seen those arguments since Demon Souls in pvp zones when someone was about to get into paste). If someone just leaves because he has wrongly press a button and says so, or something of the sort then i wont mind, but otherwise... I see it as a jerk move, you are forcing the other players to wait for a replacement (if it comes) or re-queue for a duty. And it's worse if it's a sprout in his first time duty on said dungueon. Yes, i cant force anyone to do anything they dont like but again no one should force me to wait for another queue, right?

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Originally Posted by Doozer

Yes, penalties need to be longer. I think an hour would be good, so all the people insisting that waiting an extra half an hour somehow saves time won't have an excuse anymore.

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Would do nothing. Worse than nothing actually. They'd just log out and you'd be stuck waiting 5 minutes before being able to free up the spot for a replacement.

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Originally Posted by Zhamkyong

That is like saying you can turn off the pc or fake a disconnect because it's a built in game mechanic

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Turning off your pc or pulling out your internet aren't game mechanics.

Leaving a party is, there's a lil' button for it right here
http://i.imgur.com/34Iu7CO.png
That explains in detail the penalties for leaving.

It does not say
http://i.imgur.com/LrgJQWt.png

Well I don't know what bad Luck you had with Tanks. I personally never left a dungeon i got into, even if i don't like the dungeon. I see more DD's or Healers leaving, if the Tank doesn't pull the half dungeon or the group is not to their liking. Even got kicked more than once because someone doesn't want a Dark Knight Tank. So stop the Hate against Tanks, only because you had problems with a few.

With the high influx of dps coming with the expansion I don't think they will further agitate tanks and healers with more penalties. Especially since they didn't add a new job for them.

I can answer from my own PoV as someone who only very recently started tanking after getting very comfortable with my main DPS and Healer jobs. I very, very rarely leave a dungeon. Since I main a DPS, I am AWARE of the queue time and the horrors of waiting for a replacement. However, there are times when I get something in a roulette that I simply don't think I can do, at least not well. The reason I leave is because it's obvious to anyone who takes a look that I am not by any means a new player, and since I've cleared just about everything, I don't have the new player bonus to cover for me.

In other words, I don't think I'll do well, and from the perspective of the other players I don't have an excuse to not do well. Therefore, I would rather just leave then potentially be ridiculed through the entire instance. This happened to me in Qarn and it happened to me twice in Darkhold. I'm comfortable with those instances now, but the first time through I had a hard time and "Sorry, this is my first time tanking this" was not enough to get the rest of the party off my back, so I left.

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Originally Posted by Xx-ReiN-xX

30 min lockout or 30 min dungeon run. wish one is better?

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30 min lockout cause they can do something else for those 30 minutes.

I've never dropped instantly because I didn't like the dungeon or because I saw a sprout leaf. I have dropped when DPS or healers tried to pull ahead or when healers couldn't keep me up or if people were being rude. I've done this as both Tank and DPS (I don't heal, but if I did I'd probably do the same). 30 minute lockout sucks; but I'll eat a 30 minute penalty and jump on with an alt or do something else if a run is obviously going to take forever or be so annoying as to make me want to get drunk to get through it. I have no obligation (and neither do you or anyone else) to carry people, put up with trash talk or even run a dungeon I find particularly annoying (haven't found one of those yet though).

I did have this happen to me once... I Cutter's Cry

Duty Roulette, the Tank left before I even had control of my character. So I got there and noticed only an AST and a NIN... I'm like... what happened to the tank. They replied that he left.

We were going to wait for another one, but I said... well I'll just whip out Titan and we can go clear the floor. We'll give it a shot.

Sure enough, worked out well, I was surprised at how well Titan was handling 3 mob spawns. The AST kept him alive, while I spammed my AoE DoTs and used Bliz 2 for Crowd Control. And I'm sure the NIN was assisting with Agro control. They did come close to killing Titan once... but we made it.

Went surprisingly fast again. We got up to the First Boss but were hesitant to try it with Titan alone... then sure enough another Tank showed up just in the nick of time and we finished off the rest of the dungeon really quick.

Was a nice little run despite everything.

I have done my fair share of tanking, pld +war lvl 60 and i love the role, however, I have put up with my fair share of bs. Example, under-leveled gears, trying to ignore mechanics, players not knowing how to play their class and insult you for correcting them, or even "suggesting" certain actions (also why i am hesitant on becoming a mentor, because i love to help people, but this community is so toxic). After putting up with enough bs you kinda just don't wanna waste your time anymore, you get tired, especially in mechanic heavy dungeons.


Side note, idk what it is about being a tank, but I can spot almost every mistake other roles make, and the "mentor" inside of me wants to help, but knows not everyone will listen, its draining lol.

Edit: i personally do not leave dungeons, but i do understand some reasoning behind it. The only tanks i have ever seen rage quit a dungeon are from pulling the entire area and expecting the healer to drop everything they are doing rescue them lol. Or watch a healer fail at healing because they are in cleric stance.

It's only a very small minority of tanks who do this, as a PLD main I never have.

Heck, in 3.3 I did Sohr Khai, after which I continued the main quest and got to the Final Steps of Faith, went to queue for that not realising I still had Sohr Khai still marked in the Duty Finder. Turned out Sohr Khai popped and I accepted without realising. As desparate as I was to continue the story I stayed and did Sohr Khai as I didn't want to let the healer and the two DPS down.

Funnily enough I ended up doing exactly the same in 3.4 accidentally with Xelphatol and the Ifrit trial that was part of 3.4's MQ, again I stayed even though I hadn't intended to repeat Xelphatol at that time :)

To be honest I tend to see more healers bail than tanks.

And as a tank in recent times yeah I've been that guy that just ups and leaves a duty of it isn't going so well.

If the first pull of a dungeon takes a lifetime to kill why the hell should I stick around and do my job when clearly the dps aren't doing there's (evident by the length of time it took to clear a pull)

You.might think I'm an ass for leaving after the first pull and wasting your time but if the dps ain't doing there jobs then it them who are wasting my time.

Never used to be that player who just upped and bailed. But these days I don't have time for people who don't even try to play there jobs properly or learn mechanics.

If people are genuinely trying I have all the time in the world to eat 100 wipes. And get them through. But if they ain't then I'm not wasting my time

If you are either grossly undergeared or underskilled then I will leave, I am not going to carry ice mages and players who barely meet the ilevel req using the wrong accessories.

There are very few legitimate reasons that would make it acceptable to leave a group at the start of a dungeon and most of them are RL issues.
Anything else (hate a dungeon, etc.) is flat out arrogance and selfish on the part of the person leaving, as they're interferring with the rest of the people playing with behavior.

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Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

There are very few legitimate reasons that would make it acceptable to leave a group at the start of a dungeon and most of them are RL issues.
Anything else (hate a dungeon, etc.) is flat out arrogance and selfish on the part of the person leaving, as they're interferring with the rest of the people playing with behavior.

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Any reason whatsoever except for intentionally trying to harass/grief other players is a legitimate reason.

Just mentors fishing guildhests/trials (but not extreme trials) in mentor roulete. In half hour dungeon time they could do 7 guildhests getting 7x more credits for their mount. Not worth staying.

Just had this happen in Snowcloak.

I don't see really the problem, forcing people to stay where they don't want to be is a bad idea.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

Twice in Dusk Vigil, and once in Baelsar's Wall, all in a span of a few days. I'd load in, cast Protect, and they'd be gone. And that's if they weren't very quick about it.

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because of the almost instant queue, they are allow to be an @ss
nothing much could be done about it
that's why I always feel much harsher punishment is needed for these kind of instance

I hate AV too, I hate AK HM too, but when I queue daily Roulette, it is a commitment to finish the duty
there is a vote abandon button if the party is too bad to clear the dungeon
I accentually queue some dungeon which I forget to uncheck all the time, but either told the party or suck it up, or dont use DF at all
being considerate for other people is the basic requirement for Duty Finder, I am surprise how many ppl use "I dont like the dungeon" as an excuse to quit, dont like it, dont queue it
as for real life issue, i quit for this reason a few times, i just type in chat say i m sorry, XXX happen in real life and I must leave, ya it is not going to change anything, they still have to wait for replacement but at least I let them know why i must leave, quitting without a word is rude

So yesterday I qued into a DR:Ex got Sohm Al hard and this guy just straight left...
It's always them, those pesky terrible...
DPS
I was the tank, I left and got another insta que.

If you get a tank that leaves you just have to deal with it, we can do it therefore if I have any reason to I will, I am punished by getting a penalty anyway. I don't have to explain my reasons.

Because they have no spine.