[Dev] ilevel to enter a DF is not enough. ALL DF need requrements. 4.0 reminder.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

You are right, ALL DFS DO NOT!!! do not, need ilevel requirements. Those are too easy to work around and why the situation exists today. We need a WEAPON LEVEL requirement for ALL DFs, level 1 weapon sucks no matter the DF, along with MAIN stat and HP values. ilevel requirements does not work. There is no excuse you are right, but people still bring in gear to those DFs and even 2.0 ones just because the system lets them, see quotes of my first post.

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I really agree with you on weapon being a very important stat. I remember doing a Xelphtol run with an AST who is all i230 (left and right sides) with an i145 weapon. I thought I'd get some decent heals since I was a tank with a high item level and the healer was decently geared, but the heals I'm given were rather low due to the low weapon damage from the i145 Astrologian weapon. I had to keep the pulls small to accommodate the healer.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

This should not happen, the system needs to prevent this from happening. it should be simple, each job needs to pass a set amount of main stat, hp, and weapon level. Simple giving a gear average is not enough and too easy to work around that. Also all DFs needs requirements, I am sure you did not expect people to wear incorrect gear and the wrong gear like crafting gear to underperform soo much it is basically a 3 person dungeon, or in some cases makes the dungeon not even passable.

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I wouldn't suggest basing gear on HP or main stat; that could punish tanks who spec for a bit more damage, or healers who aim for more vitality with Fending accessories.

I think the best approach would be introducing a 'second tier' requirement. Namely, you need to meet both an average iLevel across all pieces, AND a (slightly) lower minimum iLevel for each individual piece. For example, Sohm Al (Hard) might require i230 average, while also stipulating that each piece be, at minimum, i200. That would allow for some under-leveled pieces, but not woefully under-leveled. That way people maintain a degree of gear flexibility, while not being able to throw on random crafted stuff for Spiritbonding.

Honestly I believe some thing does need to change with gear and the duty finder.

Crafting/gathering gear should be limited to crafting/gathering jobs only, not equip able by any and all jobs. Same with the accessories only allow the relevant jobs to equip what is relevant to their job. L accessories that have a mind attribute only equip able by white Mage, scholar, and astro or strength accessories equipable by only monk, dragoon, and now Sam.

I've also seen too many people wearing incorrect gear and low level gear in high level content, they may make the minimum ilvl requirement but they do so at the cost of making the whole run way more difficult because thier defence/attack or both is not enough for them to survive which makes the run hell on a healer or their attack isn't enough to do much damage if any at all.

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Originally Posted by RaijinSupreme

how many threads of the same topic are we going to get?

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have you never seen the healer forums? there's so many threads just on cleric stance

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Originally Posted by Vhailor

I wouldn't suggest basing gear on HP or main stat; that could punish tanks who spec for a bit more damage, or healers who aim for more vitality with Fending accessories.

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Outside of Savage level content, there's no need for healers to need extra vitality.

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Originally Posted by Vhailor

I wouldn't suggest basing gear on HP or main stat; that could punish tanks who spec for a bit more damage, or healers who aim for more vitality with Fending accessories.

I think the best approach would be introducing a 'second tier' requirement. Namely, you need to meet both an average iLevel across all pieces, AND a (slightly) lower minimum iLevel for each individual piece. For example, Sohm Al (Hard) might require i230 average, while also stipulating that each piece be, at minimum, i200. That would allow for some under-leveled pieces, but not woefully under-leveled. That way people maintain a degree of gear flexibility, while not being able to throw on random crafted stuff for Spiritbonding.

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it punishes people that have so low hp they get one shoted by normal damage? what are you talking about?

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Originally Posted by AmalonStar

Honestly I believe some thing does need to change with gear and the duty finder.

Crafting/gathering gear should be limited to crafting/gathering jobs only, not equip able by any and all jobs. Same with the accessories only allow the relevant jobs to equip what is relevant to their job. L accessories that have a mind attribute only equip able by white Mage, scholar, and astro or strength accessories equipable by only monk, dragoon, and now Sam.

I've also seen too many people wearing incorrect gear and low level gear in high level content, they may make the minimum ilvl requirement but they do so at the cost of making the whole run way more difficult because thier defence/attack or both is not enough for them to survive which makes the run hell on a healer or their attack isn't enough to do much damage if any at all.

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problem with that is glamor... and even if you do that it does not change people wearing wrong right side gear =/
that is why i suggested what I did, it fixes all that.

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Originally Posted by AnaviAnael

Outside of Savage level content, there's no need for healers to need extra vitality.

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pvp

I don't know if it was mentioned before, but actually the game proposes this kind of weird way of equipping. By using the automated command for choosing best equipment for your class it might happen that the game proposes to use crafter stuff or stuff that is not meant for your class, because it has an higher ilvl.
So actually SE introduced that problem to us. Maybe it would be better to remove that feature again. :x

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Originally Posted by AmeliaVerves

I don't know if it was mentioned before, but actually the game proposes this kind of weird way of equipping. By using the automated command for choosing best equipment for your class it might happen that the game proposes to use crafter stuff or stuff that is not meant for your class, because it has an higher ilvl.
So actually SE introduced that problem to us. Maybe it would be better to remove that feature again. :x

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Just tested, not true.

My DRG accessories are all higher iLvl then my healer and tank accessories, but the feature doesn't suggest my DRG accessories when I'm on AST or WAR. it only suggest my highest mind gear for AST, or vit gear for my WAR, and if I"m already wearing that gear, it doesn't suggest anything.

The other day I had a nin in expert roulette wearing only 235 pvp gear... god it was so slow going. And he got 1 shot over and over because he wouldn't dodge either =_=

The ilvl of the duty should be applied for the weapon mainly. When I go exp roulette with someone using a weapon with 70-80 ilvl less than what average people use, I internally scream. And I also tank all the dungeon with my blm if it's the tank.

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Originally Posted by bardaboo

"Dude... can you wear better gear please?"
"Oh leave him alone we're doing fine" <-----get rid of THOSE people.

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You're my hero.

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Originally Posted by RaijinSupreme

Just tested, not true.

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I don't mean to be rude, but in fact it is true. It happend to me when I leveled my AST and it wanted me to equipp Caster accessories, because they met my level, but the healer ones were about 7 level below.
Don't know if it is a bug that only appears for classes below 60 or something, but I heard from others who made the same experiences.

If they restricted each job to only equip accessories for its own role and also made a separate check for weapon iLvl, this problem would be pretty much fixed. You want to queue for a duty that requires i250, you'd need an average iLvl of 250 and a weapon that was i250 or above, and all accessories must match your job.

Yeah, I get that tanks sometimes want to equip an STR ring, but I'm okay with sacrificing that in return for getting rid of this problem.

The easiest way to enforce this is a main stat check + a weapon item level check. Main stats are the reason chest pieces have a bigger impact than earrings and gloves have a bigger impact than belts, so instead of writing a long weighed algorithm for individual gear item levels one can just check the total STR, DEX, INT, MND or VIT depending on role, and then check that the weapon is at most 10 ilvl lower than the required average item level. This leaves some wiggle room but makes sure that one doesn't fail because of unavoidable damage or a small dps check.

There could also be a teaching aspect in the error messages. Instead of saying "you do not meet the requirements for this duty" it could say "your weapon is not strong enough" or "you don't have enough INT for this duty". That would point people in the right direction and make sure they don't neglect aspects of gearing in the future.

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Originally Posted by Reinha

There could also be a teaching aspect in the error messages. Instead of saying "you do not meet the requirements for this duty" it could say "your weapon is not strong enough" or "you don't have enough INT for this duty". That would point people in the right direction and make sure they don't neglect aspects of gearing in the future.

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Yes, those error messages are incredibly unhelpful. They should be clear about what is wrong, and that goes for party queueing as well - as a leader, getting the "someone doesn't meet the requirements" with no further details is infuriating. As the party leader, I should have the right to know who is preventing us from queueing, and for what reason.

I'm completely against locking things like accessories (it would be bad for glamour, bad for PVP, bad for not dumbing down the scant freedom of choice we have) but I think it's a good idea to implement hard stat checks on entering new content. It's not even a fun gaming experience to power through the whole game in a week and be carried through all of the harder dungeons; force people to shop around a bit and gear up. The minimum requirements don't even have to be all that high - and they probably shouldn't be, given how facerollingly easy most content is - but if this problem with people wearing stupid gear indeed exists on other datacenters then I think it's a fair solution.

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Originally Posted by Culfinrandir

One of the 'problems' with gear being given by MSQ & side quests is that so many people just don't do them. It seems crazy to me that they wouldn't but I've encountered people in end game lvl60 stuff who haven't started Heavensward MSQ because "they're not interested in story".

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You have to do MSQ to unlock lv60 stuff. Even Idyllshire is locked behind MSQ.

So I just did dun scaith where a dragoon in the party didn't wear a chest piece. Nothing. People shouldn't even be allowed to enter with a slot on the left empty. =n='

what they could do it give gear harder restrictions, they do this for tome gear why not all gear? remove the "all classes" tag and add hard restricts on the gear. like "doh"/"dol"
And put hard ilvl req on entry to all content, while giving gear sets via class/job quests. It may limit the glamour, but they could add level 1 glamour for this instead. I saw this a few times, but be smart. Don't name and shame people. Last thing we should be doing is witch hunting people under false assumptions.

Not everyone joins free companies or ask for help, they want to rush content to get to the stuff they want. They may not know "fending" is tank gear. Not all server novice networks actively invite people either, or replies questions.

The past few servers I was on, the NN was not helpful at all. They spam invite new players with out explaining anything, then bully/insult them for wanting to leave. (this was before the changes) The chat would be spammed with random chatter, in which questions got buried, or gave spoilers.

The free companies i was in were not helpful really. And 1 treated my g/f like garbage for asking tank help questions because she had no access to google.

So it isn't unheard of, of people not wearing the right gear because of not knowing, and wanting to do content.

Not everyone doing this is trolling, or trying to be rude. When i got back to playing last mnth i ran into someone with mismatch gear, in DD. I asked them about it, and they said they was new. They wasn't to sure gear up. Not all the tool tips are easy to read.

Look up strength tool tip it states: increases damage of gla pld cnj whm thm blm pgl mnk rogue nin lnc drg arn sch smn arc brd drk mch ast arms.

I kid you not. And if you are new to ff14, or mmorpg this may be confusing.

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Originally Posted by seekified

Yes, those error messages are incredibly unhelpful. They should be clear about what is wrong, and that goes for party queueing as well - as a leader, getting the "someone doesn't meet the requirements" with no further details is infuriating. As the party leader, I should have the right to know who is preventing us from queueing, and for what reason.

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you could ask the group.

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Originally Posted by RaijinSupreme

Just tested, not true.

My DRG accessories are all higher iLvl then my healer and tank accessories, but the feature doesn't suggest my DRG accessories when I'm on AST or WAR. it only suggest my highest mind gear for AST, or vit gear for my WAR, and if I"m already wearing that gear, it doesn't suggest anything.

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the game told my g/f to wear a lvl 58 fending ring over a level 60 slaying ring after someone told her tanks use 1 fending 1 slaying to help with damage, since tank damage is a ratio between str and vit.

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

what they could do it give gear harder restrictions, they do this for tome gear why not all gear? remove the "all classes" tag and add hard restricts on the gear. like "doh"/"dol"

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This still ruins PVP and other situations (like when I had to use Fending on my healer for a stupid but hilarious undersized challenge my friends and I were doing). The last thing we need is even more restrictions on what we can wear in towns and to fool around in something which is, at heart, a game. But even a stat limit for proper content (which I support) wouldn't stop people joining then removing their clothes (??? at that DRG!) or playing like idiots. Short of removing all gear customisation entirely and forcing people to play in preconfigured sets with no free choice, there will always be trolls who think it's funny to spoil things for others.

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Originally Posted by AnaviAnael

Outside of Savage level content, there's no need for healers to need extra vitality.

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You forgot PVP, but otherwise I agree.

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Originally Posted by AmeliaVerves

I don't mean to be rude, but in fact it is true. It happend to me when I leveled my AST and it wanted me to equipp Caster accessories, because they met my level, but the healer ones were about 7 level below.
Don't know if it is a bug that only appears for classes below 60 or something, but I heard from others who made the same experiences.

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Indeed. It will usually recommend "Weathered" accessories (the ones you get/buy initially) over "main stat specific" ones up to at least level 30 because it gets over excited by the secondary stats, even if they are irrelevant to your class. I don't know the calculations it uses so maybe it's doing it "Dervy Stat Weights" style & calculating the total weight even including things like Parry <spits>.

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Originally Posted by Felis

You have to do MSQ to unlock lv60 stuff. Even Idyllshire is locked behind MSQ.

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I can create a new character now & as soon as I have access to a market board (& the gil), or if I have a friendly crafter, I can own full i250 at level 1 (or when I get market access). I may be unable to wear it until I reach level 60 (by spamming PoTD & not really knowing my job) but it's there. Sorry, but it's true.

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Originally Posted by Serilda

This still ruins PVP and other situations (like when I had to use Fending on my healer for a stupid but hilarious undersized challenge my friends and I were doing). The last thing we need is even more restrictions on what we can wear in towns and to fool around in something which is, at heart, a game. But even a stat limit for proper content (which I support) wouldn't stop people joining then removing their clothes (??? at that DRG!) or playing like idiots. Short of removing all gear customisation entirely and forcing people to play in preconfigured sets with no free choice, there will always be trolls who think it's funny to spoil things for others.

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could make separate pvp gear that is useful. And this game has hard set restrictions as to what stats do already, and hard caps thing higher up for set gear (tank in fending gear only)

I'm just stating a few ideas, nothing i'm expecting to be implemented. It kinda is an issue that needs to be fixed.

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Originally Posted by Culfinrandir

I can create a new character now & as soon as I have access to a market board (& the gil), or if I have a friendly crafter, I can own full i250 at level 1 (or when I get market access). I may be unable to wear it until I reach level 60 (by spamming PoTD & not really knowing my job) but it's there. Sorry, but it's true.

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still need to do msq to get to idllyshire, need to do msq to unlock experts. need to do the msq to unlock jobs. need to do msq to get a chocobo.

msq unlock everything in game. Some side quests also. So meeting a person in a lvl 60 dungeon who didn't touch msq is just trolling, or bought the account that had it completed already (which is against tos)

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

you could ask the group.

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I do, and a lot of the time I'm greeted by silence or a bunch of "not me". I shouldn't have to ask, I should be informed of who is the problem so I can kindly ask the person to fix the problem or leave.

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Originally Posted by seekified

I do, and a lot of the time I'm greeted by silence or a bunch of "not me". I shouldn't have to ask, I should be informed of who is the problem so I can kindly ask the person to fix the problem or leave.

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Yep I saw that before. For deep it tells you... why not everything else? The thing is it is likely no one says anything because they do not know XD while the ones that do know are the ones saying not me.

I agree

/10charac

Honestly. The only difficulty I\\'ve had as a newer player who has 3 l60 classes now, not all geared, but main as a pally, is acquiring a suitable weapon.

For example; I did not know for awhile where the tome exchange was in Idylshire or that I needed to run Alexander for gears to exchange for the high capacity tome needed for a weapon.

As a il255 pally though in part, I would blame the way that there is a meta lockout on high content on some classes to be part of the problem. I have never been able to participate in Alex Savage due to being kicked all the time -solely- for being pally because I guess pally tank dps is worst dps and the meta is kind of super crazy about dps. *shrug*

Hell. It\\'s hard to clear some of end game Primals in df/pf/rf due to people being impatience, the hate of the bonus message and the craziness that is bird farming. Even in a dedicated learning party it can be rough.

I really enjoy this game. But not everything is super clear. Although I personally don\\'t mind, because therea soooo much content here, I can see where people would have problems

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Originally Posted by Ash_

The other day I had a nin in expert roulette wearing only 235 pvp gear... god it was so slow going. And he got 1 shot over and over because he wouldn't dodge either =_=

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pure pvp 235 for expert is fine, it would be 234 (min)/236 avg for a 230 content, depending on the second ring, and it is better then non-upgraded lore. The min entry is 230, but the problem is people treat expert like you need 255+ avg with the massive pulls people do there. If it was wall, there should have been no issue tbh, but if it was the other one.... with the way people mass pull there, def can see a problem. The mass aoe that happens there with some mega pulls is .. UGH

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Originally Posted by Dreggit

Honestly. The only difficulty I\\'ve had as a newer player who has 3 l60 classes now, not all geared, but main as a pally, is acquiring a suitable weapon.

For example; I did not know for awhile where the tome exchange was in Idylshire or that I needed to run Alexander for gears to exchange for the high capacity tome needed for a weapon.

As a il255 pally though in part, I would blame the way that there is a meta lockout on high content on some classes to be part of the problem. I have never been able to participate in Alex Savage due to being kicked all the time -solely- for being pally because I guess pally tank dps is worst dps and the meta is kind of super crazy about dps. *shrug*

Hell. It\\'s hard to clear some of end game Primals in df/pf/rf due to people being impatience, the hate of the bonus message and the craziness that is bird farming. Even in a dedicated learning party it can be rough.

I really enjoy this game. But not everything is super clear. Although I personally don\\'t mind, because therea soooo much content here, I can see where people would have problems

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all the trade this item here, trade that item there is defently a clunly system. My friend really hates running to like 3 npcs? when it comes to buying, then upgrading a 260 part (both at once). You got to buy the gear, then find the upgrade item in oddly name menus, then run to a different npc to upgradde it.

When she was newer, she had to run back and forth a few times to make sure she bought the right upgrade item.

They could cut out steps, got the scripts and 3 coins from the 3 void arks? Go to a NPC and buy the 270 item directly with that.

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Originally Posted by Caitlinzulu

What we need is an ilvl check at the moment duty pops

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So... because you want to stomp your feet no one should be allowed to do other things while they wait on queue? No crafting? No gathering? No nothing? This is a terrible idea. Absolutely horrible.

Ran Void ark today and a mch had some ironworks stuff still equipped that really should not be possible....

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

the game told my g/f to wear a lvl 58 fending ring over a level 60 slaying ring after someone told her tanks use 1 fending 1 slaying to help with damage, since tank damage is a ratio between str and vit.

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The game is programmed for vit stat as the main stat for tank jobs, the vit stat for tanks also gives an increase to the dmg tank weapons deal so that is why it would go for the lower level item designed for tanks over a higher level item designed for monks and drg's.

Tanks should be wearing vit gear and if you want the extra boost to dmg meld art materia onto that. If you highlight the various stats on the character window it tells you what jobs the stat gives an increase to.

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Originally Posted by Culfinrandir

I can create a new character now & as soon as I have access to a market board (& the gil), or if I have a friendly crafter, I can own full i250 at level 1 (or when I get market access). I may be unable to wear it until I reach level 60 (by spamming PoTD & not really knowing my job) but it's there. Sorry, but it's true.

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having ilevel 250+ equip from the MB =/= unlocked lv 60 content without MSQ
Culfinrandir said that he know people doing endgame lv 60 content who haven't even started the HW MSQ.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

So... because you want to stomp your feet no one should be allowed to do other things while they wait on queue? No crafting? No gathering? No nothing? This is a terrible idea. Absolutely horrible.

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Change equip to proper gear, then press start.

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

the game told my g/f to wear a lvl 58 fending ring over a level 60 slaying ring after someone told her tanks use 1 fending 1 slaying to help with damage, since tank damage is a ratio between str and vit.

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No , in 90% of cases you take 2 vit rings. There is only one expection to this. Endgame tanks that have more then enough hp for select content may chose a slaying ring with crit/det with melded vit in it. It is not for new tanks to follow. You really know what you are doing to know when to do something like that

My friend told me a DF that was done today where there was this AST trolling them in shire gear on the left, some 230 on the right, with a 145 weapon in some 60 dungeon....

Happening more and more, yesterday my friend saw an undergeared dragon who had muti 60s and was after the relic in one, someone like that has no excuse to under gear in darkness.

Few days ago in expert there was a run in with a BLM who had 2 low left slots like a 140 and 190, i think the hp was 12000 or so. They would get one shot and had to be stoneskin pocketed to help

Today a healer had a too low weapon to heal in expert leading to a few wipes, would get one shot by the sloppy guy. My friend was debating on if she needed to kick the person just because they could not beat it. Finally on the 3rd try they got it done. This entering DFs while under gear is a mass problem on my data center.

Also for how much people say this community is great, I love to know why I was harassed though tags. There is no way to report such actions? I am trying to point out there is a huge problem with how the game handles entry requirements and I do not see the need to call me names for trying to help the game improve and show why it needs to be.

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Originally Posted by seekified

I do, and a lot of the time I'm greeted by silence or a bunch of "not me". I shouldn't have to ask, I should be informed of who is the problem so I can kindly ask the person to fix the problem or leave.

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that is when you disband and reform. If you start a pf, you gotta be a leader.