A Way To Give Anyone A Chance At Hellhound Mounts?

If the top rewards can be exchanged by wolf marks then it's meaningless

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Originally Posted by Arthur_Gwen

If the top rewards can be exchanged by wolf marks then it's meaningless

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Honestly I don't see how such a thing would make the items meaningless. If they were given for free or a low price I could understand. Or something like 300 Feast wins.

It would require effort, dedication, time and give the winners the advantage. For every 20,000 marks that would be 0.5% into your goal. And it would take 20 wins from frontline in a row to even get 20,000 marks, we know how bad Frontlines is. When you think about it, is it any different than Solo Ranked?

-We no longer have chat so we can barely communicate, so less team effort possible
-Teams are made up of random people and if someone isn't that great that equals a loss.
-It still requires skill because to win something you have to be better than the other.
-Would require a very long time to achieve
-Players who PvP all day have an advantage

The only difference is the method. With the marks being the worse method. I can't remember how many marks you get for losing frontlines.. 500? 450? I don't know but losers won't be seeing their mount for literal months or worse. While the people who put in time, effort, dedication, and skill will be rewarded with quicker progress.

To say it wouldn't require effort is just not true.

(This whole post wasn't targeted at you Arthur btw.)

Just get good and you will be able to hit diamond rank on solo play problem solved..
Handing out items with no effort for doing stuff is not a good way to run an mmo, Hell you even have loads of stuff on mogstation you can buy and brag about <.<
Leave our Hellhounds alone!

it's getting good , all the problem i think. you din't got it.
there is more than 100 players to want to be good. the point is to be very good and it's seem some players can't do it.
Now your Idea is a good one but not for the hellhound. i mean it would be nice to make pvp alive to have something very cool that cost a lot of marks.
I think reward is needed to keep pvp alive.
But for hellhound what the point to do ranked if you can grind for it.
If you ask more spot than 100, or shorter season to have more season with the same reward, i can understand, but the reward should stay on ranked feast.
With what you ask the feast ranked will just die.
I still think make players fight for 4 month for one reward is a little too harsh.

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Originally Posted by snipski

Just get good and you will be able to hit diamond rank on solo play problem solved..
Handing out items with no effort for doing stuff is not a good way to run an mmo, Hell you even have loads of stuff on mogstation you can buy and brag about <.<
Leave our Hellhounds alone!

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Looks like you didn't read the thread and only read the title.

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Originally Posted by KusoWat

So what you're saying is they took away the exclusivity, which is the point...

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If you want to argue that they took away exclusivity, then thats ok.
Im still not sure if its a bad thing to be honest. I guess there will always be the ones who like the idea and the ones who dislike it for [insert reasons].
I personally dont dislike the idea, when its tied to some effort like the suggestion of a really high amount of wolfmarks. I agree thou that they shouldnt make alternative methods of getting the mount or any other items from the rankings easy.

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

It would require effort, dedication, time and give the winners the advantage. For every 20,000 marks that would be 0.5% into your goal. And it would take 20 wins from frontline in a row to even get 20,000 marks, we know how bad Frontlines is. When you think about it, is it any different than Solo Ranked?

To say it wouldn't require effort is just not true.

(This whole post wasn't targeted at you Arthur btw.)

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Nothing about how much effort you put in casual pvp
You can get enough wolf marks someday anyway so this is what makes the reward meaningless

And personally, 20000 wolf marks spend me less than 2days
So I'll get the mount within 200days if se set so

People spend months for top 100 and others can obtain the same reward 200 days after
No matter 2m 5m or 10m wolf marks for the mount it's just meaningless

Nobody could get in the top 100, even if they were good. Sorry special snowflakes, but the mount should be obtainable by everyone.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Nobody could get in the top 100, even if they were good. Sorry special snowflakes, but the mount should be obtainable by everyone.

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Can some1 translate?

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Originally Posted by Exira

Can some1 translate?

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I have no idea what im talking about but let me put in my 2 cents

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Nobody could get in the top 100, even if they were good. Sorry special snowflakes, but the mount should be obtainable by everyone.

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Not sure how you can have this opinion when there were tons of people in top 100 that are really bad.

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

And you stop assuming I didn't put effort into getting the mount. I PvP'd as much as I could while balancing my raids, gathering/crafting and relic within my short amount of playtime.

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Time management/need management. You do not NEED a relic, you do not need to craft and gather, gil is pointless anyway.
If PvP was that important, crafting/gathering and relic would come of less importance to PvP

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Nobody could get in the top 100, even if they were good. Sorry special snowflakes, but the mount should be obtainable by everyone.

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The only special snowflakes are you people begging for participation trophies.

I pay my taxes and bills too, doesn't mean I deserve a Heisman trophy.

Some of you are off-the-wall unreal.

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

That makes no sense.. how is it no effort if you are setting aside time, or prioritizing your time to get that many marks every 2 days for 200 days(6 months and 20 days) after the competition? It's like saying if your bird doesn't drop from an EX, clearing it 99 requires no effort.

Clearly the problem isn't about it not taking effort, time, skill, and dedication. Your issue is just exclusivity.

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and what is wrong with that? also:

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

And you stop assuming I didn't put effort into getting the mount. I PvP'd as much as I could while balancing my raids, gathering/crafting and relic within my short amount of playtime.

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Time management/need management. You do not NEED a relic, you do not need to craft and gather, gil is pointless anyway.
If PvP was that important, crafting/gathering and relic would come of less importance to PvP

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You do realize it is not humanly possible to do everything? I should be allowed to be fully geared on all jobs to 270 while having relic for all jobs? It is not the developers job to baby sit your opportunity cost problems.

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

That makes no sense.. how is it no effort if you are setting aside time, or prioritizing your time to get that many marks every 2 days for 200 days(6 months and 20 days) after the competition? It's like saying if your bird doesn't drop from an EX, clearing it 99 requires no effort.

Clearly the problem isn't about it not taking effort, time, skill, and dedication. Your issue is just exclusivity.

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Anyone can repeatedly lose in frontlines and never step in feast to accrue wolf marks in your proposed system. Those people do not deserve the same reward as the people who literally clawed their way to the top of the rankings, they are in no way similar to top players. SE has made a reward for top players ONLY, it was never meant for anything less. SE has set the standard to reward top players only with a special reward, this was never meant to be achievable any other way than through the competition. And just like any competition, there will be winners, and there will be losers. I don't have a top 100 S3 mount, but I'll try in S4. If I don't make it that's okay, I understand that I'm not entitled to any reward without actually winning. It's really that simple.

And there's absolutely no reason to alter the system, losers don't just get to say "well, you've enjoyed that long enough, it's not fair to keep it exclusive". Losers should be gracious and applaud winners, that's good sportsmanship.

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

That makes no sense.. how is it no effort if you are setting aside time, or prioritizing your time to get that many marks every 2 days for 200 days(6 months and 20 days) after the competition? It's like saying if your bird doesn't drop from an EX, clearing it 99 requires no effort.

Clearly the problem isn't about it not taking effort, time, skill, and dedication. Your issue is just exclusivity.



Hope this isn't for me. If so, you didn't read the thread.

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Competition and grinds are two different things. Where the 100 people had to mantain their ranks and worry about whether or not they'll stay in the top 100 is way different from someone who can just grind it out over time. Like I said before, competition is way different than participation (being the grind for the wolf marks). The amount of work it takes for someone to compete against others of variable skill level (and hackers in some cases), while also trying to maintain their rank cannot be compared to someone who can just spam frontlines or feast for a couple of months. The same amount of effort just isn't there...

Someone said it themselves, that if you wanted to get the mount(s), you had to PvP nearly all day everyday. So if that proves true, why should their time sink be for nothing if everyone could eventually get it?

There's nothing wrong with having something special for a small group of players, timed or not, it's not a crime to reward the player base. There's a new mount for Season 4 now, so you can compete. Don't make it to top 100? Try again. Not everyone is a winner. And if you feel bad that you didn't get the mount, remember that there was someone in place 101 (or lost rank last minute) that didn't get it and was actually close to the reward.

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

Hope this isn't for me. If so, you didn't read the thread.

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I ve read the thread and i also read all the tears from everyone else here. I ll say it again especially for you tho..... You started too late ? well thats pitty 1 week from 0 to top 6 was enough.... you had X months...starting too late isnt really excuse, i started last month too and i made it to top 100 without that much efford. So pls ^^ Better luck next season ;)

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Originally Posted by Sphinx12

I ve read the thread and i also read all the tears from everyone else here. I ll say it again especially for you tho..... You started too late ? well thats pitty 1 week from 0 to top 6 was enough.... you had X months...starting too late isnt really excuse, i started last month too and i made it to top 100 without that much efford. So pls ^^ Better luck next season ;)

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You do realize, not everyone is as talented or as skillful or has your good luck.

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Originally Posted by Kai_Lee

You do realize, not everyone is as talented or as skillful or has your good luck.

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You do realize, not everyone is a winner

No, just let people have exclusive things. Its already annoying that we dont have exclusive things for completing a new raid tier before the catch up patches.

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Originally Posted by Titor

You do realize, not everyone is a winner

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You do realize, I have to depend on 3 other teammates. Luck plays a lot in the outcome of a match. How come feast isn't simply 1v1 to make it fair?

Also, why is it that raid and ex primals in pve gets echo, unsync and loot unlock eventually?

"That makes no sense.. how is it no effort if you are setting aside time, or prioritizing your time to get that many marks every 2 days for 200 days(6 months and 20 days) after the competition? It's like saying if your bird doesn't drop from an EX, clearing it 99 requires no effort.
Clearly the problem isn't about it not taking effort, time, skill, and dedication. Your issue is just exclusivity"

(Don't know why I can't find this original reply to quote)

So here's the thing, the reward for top 100 means both effort and skills, not merely effort

I can call a friend and farm 8v8 in healer which I'm not good at with 80%+ win rate
But my healer in solo still like bronze level (btw 8v8 is much easier now because of pre season ppl all practicing there, which means it's just farm)
Did you ever seen a bronze healer in top100?

So why should the bronze healer do a lot wolf mark farm get the same reward as top 100

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Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

I'd feel pretty proud of myself if I had to grind out 4,000,000 wolf marks for one of the 4 mounts. Let alone all 4.

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It'd just be another fenrir. And anyways the core of what you're suggesting is "give us a 'grind' path to the hellhound mount". Attaching "oh, and make it unreasonably hard" to it isn't really a fair point because 1. nobody is really going to want that and it probably wouldn't be set that high in the first place and 2. even if it were, the difficulty wouldn't remain that high over time (just like fenrir didn't)

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

Nobody could get in the top 100

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actually, I could show you about 100 players, per data center, that could

You think the difference between getting and not getting top 100 is solely RNG? LOL, this statement clearly reflects how your mind works, and it's one of the first things people with l2p issues blame things on. Wahhh it's always my team, not me? :(
So the world should revolve around you, your feelings, and how you think? I'm afraid it doesn't, but it may revolve around me. I propose you stare at people that have the mount and pretend that you have it, because it's likely that's all you can do. :p
http://imgur.com/a/rR5Ss

Allow me to pick apart what is wrong with your post:
"I've always wanted at least one of the mounts but sadly I started way too late and queues were bad"
Always wanted... since when? We knew we were getting an exclusive mount since the very beginning of the season, so where were you? Always wanted since a week ago? You make it sound so poetic and yearning. If that's the case, then apparently you haven't wanted it for very long. If you wanted it before then, why did you not put in the time and effort that you knew you needed to put forth to get it? You are the only one responsible for being a procrastinator. There are several things in this game you cannot obtain anymore, and so what makes this one special? I'm waiting. I didn't get both yo-kai mounts. I was around for the event; I knew it wasn't going to be around forever. I only wanted the one, but whose fault would it have been if I wanted both and didn't get it? Mine. Boohoo, it takes too long to get all the weapons? It's too grindy? Tears don't work like they do in the pokemon movie—you know, where pikachu cried and ash came back to life. UGH, that's my movie right there! You're making me all emotional now. :o

I see people with ~1300 games played on your data center, as I see on mine. Someone is top 100 diamond there with 124 games played. You couldn't fit in that many games when the 2-week warning was given and everyone was playing? You couldn't fit those games in all season? Ah, but that person with 124 games played is a type of player that you are not. You will likely need more games than that to learn. We all have a learning phase and start somewhere.

"PvP needs to have long-term goals that aren't solely decided by the RNG that is a bad team"
Players set the goals for themselves, did you not know? For a goal, how about becoming a better player and always looking for ways to improve? Rewards should come naturally if you made this your goal. Where's the RNG in that? In a given game, you either win or lose, right? That's a 50% chance to win? That alone is enough to get you top 100. Things get a little tricky when you get diamond—you'll find you'll need to do better than 50% for the week to usually end up going up in rating. You must have a high opinion of yourself, right? Can't you at least make that 50% difference?! Everyone gets teammates they'd rather not have, and they get them even more so than you do. You think people at the top have the best luck? On the contrary, they have the worst luck. It is actually hardly luck because do you know there's a matchmaking system? If I'm the only diamond, it's likely to put plats on the other team and give me some gold players that disappoint me to no end. You have it so good the lower rated you are, so please spare me and everyone else. I'm confident that if I watched you play, I could point out a dozen misplays you've made in a given game. I'm confident in saying that if you get a bad team all the time, that the reason is mostly because you're on it, and that's the harsh reality.

Did you know there is a way to win practically every time in even what is true gambling? Own a casino, and you will come out ahead in the long run. Would you like me to give you a list of things that objectively play a part in what can win and lose a game? Knowing these things would get that RNG in your favor. ;)

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Originally Posted by Meero

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Funny thing is I saw OP never in a single feast match (8vs8 and 4vs4) even though I played the last 2 seasons on aether....

No thanks. The people who got in the top 100 went through a lot of stress to get the exclusive reward they finally deserved. I certainly understand that it's not fun seeing people with a mount you won't be able to get, but can't some people have something exclusive? It wouldn't be fair for them either to make it available for everyone. I know it's not fun to work for it and still not get in the top 100, but there's still next season. The competition in season 4 shouldn't be as hard as season 3, and you'll still get the Hellhound. Maybe not in the color you really want, but that won't devalue the exclusiveness of the mount.

Raiders could say the same thing though. Look at the groups trying and trying to clear Alex savage 12. In a few months, it will be a cakewalk and everyone will have that robot mount. Do raiders care that they invested so much time for something everyone can eventually get? No, because that's how the game works.

I suggest SE do the normal season as is but also make a season 3.5 or a season 4.5 where the losers brackets get to join in to fight it out for top 30 soloq and top 10 LP. No one from top 100 of season 3 soloq and season 3 top 30 LP can join.

I wouldn't be surprised if season 4 is the last feast season with all the changes coming with stormblood and changes coming to pvp they will probably make a whole new pvp mode called something else for lv70 (the fold lv50, feast lv60, ??? lv70) like with triple triad card tournaments there is only 4 of them and then they repeat with the same prizes. I'm betting the same thing will happen to the feast seasons.

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Originally Posted by Kota_Foxfrey

I wouldn't be surprised if season 4 is the last feast season with all the changes coming with stormblood and changes coming to pvp they will probably make a whole new pvp mode called something else for lv70 (the fold lv50, feast lv60, ??? lv70) like with triple triad card tournaments there is only 4 of them and then they repeat with the same prizes. I'm betting the same thing will happen to the feast seasons.

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I can see SE doing this.

like tournament ? why not

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Originally Posted by Stormfur

Raiders could say the same thing though. Look at the groups trying and trying to clear Alex savage 12. In a few months, it will be a cakewalk and everyone will have that robot mount. Do raiders care that they invested so much time for something everyone can eventually get? No, because that's how the game works.

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Implying creator savage isn't already a cake walk.

Raiders do care that equal ilvl gear becomes obtainable the following major patch and we do care that our mounts become less exclusive due to heavy nerfs and echo.

There have been tons of post on the matter, we just stopped bothering because SE won't do a thing about it and we realized this game is casual af. PvP is one the few places we have where our hardwork and skill gets noticed.

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Originally Posted by Meero

You think the difference between getting and not getting top 100 is solely RNG?

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It kinda is. I mean I'm considered very average player and got to Top 100 (with sub 45% wr) when much better players didn't because of bad matchmaking or lose streak in blind week. If its not luck/RNG, then what it is?

Ahaha, no. No.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

It kinda is. I mean I'm considered very average player and got to Top 100 (with sub 45% wr) when much better players didn't because of bad matchmaking or lose streak in blind week. If its not luck/RNG, then what it is?

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It is either solely or not solely. I chose my words carefully, and nowhere did I say luck isn't involved. Indeed, you've discovered rating doesn't always reflect how good a player is, though it can be an indicator of it. Some of the most respectable players in my eyes play without regard for rating and play to play. After all, you don't get much better by sitting on your rating. Have those players much better than you been above your rating? Why didn't they sit if they knew it was safe? Bad matchmaking absolutely does play a part in if you win or lose a game, but do not treat it as it is the only thing. It's something you can't do a whole lot about. The population is so small that you can kind of gauge who you just might get on your team too and who you may play against. Something interesting would happen if people were around the same skill level in your games. Matches would come down more to how each player performed in that game alone, which would limit your ability to climb too. You would also be playing against a team stacked with good players. You being the weak link would cripple you SO hard. Many that are diamond would never see it if feast were more populated, and if feast were more populated, better players would come naturally.

With your question, are you meaning to tell me that those players couldn't have done any better in the games they played? Did you watch them? Do you know what constitutes a mistake? I'm telling you that the single biggest factor in if you get something as simple as top 100 is YOU. I believe there's a reason we see the same faces at the top, and I think it's beyond foolish to think it's only because they are consistently lucky. Is there something you are wanting to argue? Why did you separate "bad matchmaking or lose streak in blind week"? So the losses were caused by something else other than bad matchmaking? In other words, the player in question? Did those players much better than you make it their goal to get top 100 all season? Did they do everything they could to make that goal a reality? I'll steal the answer to that question and say nope.

There are many things you can do that can give you a slight edge in feast that many do not do, yet these things pale in comparison to playing well—now imagine combining them. There is one thing that's impossible to do, and that is play perfectly every single game. Knowing this, it's all about limiting your mistakes, and that's what I think is a good definition for a good player: someone who makes the least amount of mistakes. I've noticed something throughout the years as well, and that is people can play a perfect game in their head and say they made no mistakes, while others will beg to differ and laugh at them. People might be making these same mistakes every single match, and they don't even know it, and if they don't know it, they will likely never change it. No one has ever challenged their play and made them understand why what they are doing is bad, and it can't really be fixed by practice makes perfect, but rather perfect practice makes perfect.

It would be nice if they made rewards similar for seasons to come. This is the first season they've actually given us something pretty much everyone would agree is a good reward. There have been some rumors about next season's rewards being the same mount but reskinned, but they will remain rumors until confirmed. Keeping rewards good will keep people from longing for the past too much and give them something to look forward to in the future too! They may possibly end up with something they like better than what was given in the past. Nice rewards can also be an incentive for people to get into PvP and compete—now that sounds like a win-win to me. I can really see this being the case with how much attention PvP has been getting these last 2 patches and with rewards this season, but who really knows for sure, right?

PVP can't have grinds because it is ultimately a competitive mode. By design, PVP is about winning, and a culture of winners getting prizes and losers getting nothing is healthy in competitive formats. The ONLY reason that people have an issue in this game is because the PVP is secondary to a PVE culture that promotes participation prizes, content being nerfed into the ground and difficult to obtain items (such as ex primal mounts and savage mounts/titles) becoming faceroll farm-fests.

I would be ok with this if, and only if, wolf marks could not be obtained if you lose (which actually, I would be ok with anyway), which would prevent people throwing matches and just grinding PVP like any other piece of content, through the path of least resistance.

Edit: I saw this discussed earlier, but savage mounts SHOULD also be locked behind sync, its not that PVP has a gating problem with rewards, its that PVE doesn't and it really should.

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Originally Posted by Meero

People might be making these same mistakes every single match, and they don't even know it, and if they don't know it, they will likely never change it. No one has ever challenged their play and made them understand why what they are doing is bad, and it can't really be fixed by practice makes perfect, but rather perfect practice makes perfect.

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I don't know how you expect people to get better, seeing as their is no chat to communicate that to players. Not all players have game recorder and expert to consort with to show them their errors in the playback of their recorded games as well.