Removal of Surnames

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Originally Posted by Rhianu

But forcing every single player in the entire game to have two names is ridiculous and unnecessary, and limits the creative freedom of each player to choose the name they really want.

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Only to those who only want one name it may. I think if you consider the people that WANT a surename but only a first is available, then they suffer the same limit to creative freedom.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Not having clear rules causes confusion. So no, either you give sunames to everyone or you have everyone with only a name

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Having clear rules is fine, but that doesn't mean we can't allow for different options.

All SE would need to do to make it clear is simply put the word "optional" in parenthesis next to the surname field during character creation. That way people would know that they can have a surname if they really want to, but they're not forced to use one if they don't.

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Originally Posted by Draven

I think if you consider the people that WANT a surename but only a first is available, then they suffer the same limit to creative freedom.

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Yes, which is why I specifically stated that surnames should remain available as an option. They should be there for people who want to use them, but they should not be mandatory.

But if surnames got removed now, there will be a good number of people that'll have to change their names.

Anyhow, best way around this, is to implement the old FFXI system where you get a window with a list of commands when you click on a person.

Chat
Magic
Trade
Check

That included a click to tell function too.

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Originally Posted by Rhianu

Having clear rules is fine, but that doesn't mean we can't allow for different options.

All SE would need to do to make it clear is simply put the word "optional" in parenthesis next to the surname field during character creation. That way people would know that they can have a surname if they really want to, but they're not forced to use one if they don't.

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"optional" labeling is one of the major sources of confusion in any kind of form.

I actually find funny that some people are complaining about something this absolutely minor (and that simply cannot be changed) and feeding an obvious troll. Surnames won't go away for very simple practical reasons, so this discussion is pointless.

After crying for years playing XI as Keithdragoon I am 100% happy with surnames. I do agree it should be optional for those who wish to have single word names but If surnames were removed I probly would just remove myself. (the ONE thing that would ever turn me away from this game)

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Originally Posted by Arkine

But if surnames got removed now, there will be a good number of people that'll have to change their names.

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If surnames were simply made optional, there would be no naming conflicts with existing characters because their names would already be decided. But for new characters created from this point onward, people would have a choice for whether to use a surname or not.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

"optional" labeling is one of the major sources of confusion in any kind of form.

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Says who? They could just change the text field during character creation to look like this:

Given name: [________________]
Surname (optional): [________________]

I don't see what's so confusing about that.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

I actually find funny that some people are complaining about something this absolutely minor (and that simply cannot be changed) and feeding an obvious troll. Surnames won't go away for very simple practical reasons, so this discussion is pointless.

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What makes you think it can't be changed? Do you work as a programmer for SE? Did you look at their source code?

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Originally Posted by Rhianu

If surnames were simply made optional, there would be no naming conflicts with existing characters because their names would already be decided. But for new characters created from this point onward, people would have a choice for whether to use a surname or not.

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Oh yeah, more confusion and less clear rules. Exactly what this game needs.

I against it

Name + Surname and forcing everyone to named their character in the same format (Xxxxx Xxxxx) is make the game look realistic

I'm sick and tired to see stupid names like in another MMO like ~:+:LoVe|2:+:~, <*-AsSaSS|nATioN*->

these people don't know how to named themselves and deserve to be forced by rule

You two are going nowheres and it's getting redundant! just STOP

We should get rid of them in RL too...

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Oh yeah, more confusion and less clear rules. Exactly what this game needs.

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The level of clarity would remain the same. Adding a single option would not cause that much confusion, especially since it could be clearly communicated with a single word.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

I'm sick and tired to see stupid names like in another MMO like ~:+:LoVe|2:+:~, <*-AsSaSS|nATioN*->

these people don't know how to named themselves and deserve to be forced by rule

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What MMOs do you play that allow for special characters in names? All the MMOs I've seen only allow letters. >.>

But the issue of special characters is a whole other discussion anyway, so I don't know why you're bringing that up.

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Originally Posted by Rhianu

The level of clarity would remain the same. Adding a single option would not cause that much confusion, especially since it could be clearly communicated with a single word.

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That's why the first thing they teach you when devising a survey in a statistics class is not to put in any optional questions :D

This thing is so minor and inconsequential that there's no doubt on the nature of an effort to question it.

Surnames aren't going anywhere.

Just thought of something, go play Lord of the Rings Online.. No surnames so I had to make up a name that looks retarded. My name doesn't have 34445 at the end of it so why must i put that?

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Originally Posted by Abriael

That's why the first thing they teach you when devising a survey in a statistics class is not to put in any optional questions :D

This thing is so minor and inconsequential that there's no doubt on the nature of an effort to question it.

Surnames aren't going anywhere.

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When players create a new character, they're not taking a ****ing survey. The same rules don't always apply. Options might be bad on surveys, but they're not bad in video games.

All video games have multiple options. Go open up the configuration menu in any game and you'll see there are a wide variety of choices that a player can make to customize their experience. Providing players with choices is never a bad thing.

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Originally Posted by Rhianu

surnames should remain available as an option.

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Cmon man, you really expect to have an option for that in this game by SE? Talk about ridiculous :rolleyes:

Whether or not I expect them to actually implement the option is irrelevant. The point is I think they should. That's what this forum is here for: to discuss the things we would like to see added to the game.

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Originally Posted by Rhianu

Back before release, Tanaka said surnames were implemented to ensure players can always get the name they want. Well guess what, SE? The name I want is only ONE name! Forcing me to use two names takes away my freedom to use the name I truly want.

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^ This.


I wasn't going to troll the atmosphere of the game and use a name that actually sounded cool. Unfortunately, that is not possible when surnames are required; thus... Belgian Rofl

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Originally Posted by BelgianRofl

No offense, but less than 1% of the population has an interesting, clever, or powerful sounding name. This is virtually unattainable when requiring surnames.

I believe the only reason for surnames was because of the drama that occurs 8 years down the road when you have to merge servers...

Surnames should not exist in FFXIV. Not only do most people's names suck, but it makes the game look like a text-adventure in crowded zones.

I won't even bring up the fact that trying to send a /tell to Whargershire Alizeilaronetsunakashima as he runs across the screen is often a disaster.

If you are in defense of surnames, please know that your name sucks and is not memorable to anyone other than yourself (unless you're Belgian, Rofl, that is...)

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Reika Shadowheart is mighty powerful soundin!

Surnames are great. I'm not a big roleplayer, but I appreciate anything that moves forward from uberleetnuppwnzor45 type names. I tend to respect people with good names that sound good and somewhat realistic, and even some of the clever ones. (Ex. Grizz Lebear is one of the better names I've seen running around lately)

The /tell issue is the only problem I've had with it, and to be honest I'll put a little Faith in SE that a better system will be thought up and implemented.

Something my friends and I have also done is used a shared surname; it lets people know we're in cahoots. :P

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Originally Posted by Rhianu

Providing players with choices is never a bad thing.

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This is as false as it could be, as any blanket statement. Should they provide me with the option of using numbers in my name? because you know, that's an OPTION!

Basic areas need basic rules.
-Remembering everyone by name and surname -> rather easy. You do that in real life every day.
-Having to remember surnames AND remember who has a surname and who doesn't -> harder, more confusion, as the presence of many people without surnames would encourage people to remember only names even for the ones that have surnames.

Funny how someone flaunting an absolutely out-of-place signature from another game seems so intent on nitpicking on absolutely negligible details here.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

It's always funny how the opposite of a troll's arguments is normally true.

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It's funny how you're defending the systems in a game that won Worst Game of 2010 and has a 49/100 meta score. The small minority of people who gobble up whatever SE puts on their plate do not have valid opinions on what makes a system good or not.

The name I wanted to use for Final Fantasy XI (Kaze) was taken, many times over in fact. I had to play about a bit and name I decided upon was Kayze. Then I saw many variations of Kayze after some time, and I wouldnt think that Kayze is exactly a popular name >_>

I am (selfishly) pro surname in all its entirety, and really, how hard is it to think up of a surname to supplement the first? Really guys, we are playing a fantasy game, have a little imagination.!

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Originally Posted by Abriael

This is as false as it could be, as any blanket statement. Should they provide me with the option of using numbers in my name? because you know, that's an OPTION!

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Whether or not special characters should be permitted is completely different issue and not even remotely related to the discussion at hand. Some might argue that special characters are distracting from the fantasy setting, which is a perfectly valid stance.

There is absolutely nothing distracting about the absence of surnames. Allowing players the choice would not have the same impact as allowing special characters. Not even close.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Basic areas need basic rules.
-Remembering everyone by name and surname -> rather easy. You do that in real life every day.
-Having to remember surnames AND remember who has a surname and who doesn't -> harder, more confusion, as the presence of many people without surnames would encourage people to remember only names even for the ones that have surnames.

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Actually, it is neither easier nor harder to remember two names than it is to remember one. It wouldn't be that difficult to remember that Billy Bobcat and Johnny are two different people, despite the fact that only one of them has a surname.

There is a cute Lalafel named Prinny Hero..... i think that name ROX!

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Originally Posted by BelgianRofl

It's funny how you're defending the systems in a game that won Worst Game of 2010 and has a 49/100 meta score. The small minority of people who gobble up whatever SE puts on their plate do not have valid opinions on what makes a system good or not.

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Thanks for identifying yourself even more as a troll. It wasn't really needed though. Like metascore and silly awards given by website mean anything (especially since they're based on the state of the game 6 months ago).

I find it more funny how people that obviously hate the game and will never like it waste part of their life to troll the forums instead of finally moving on with their lifes.

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Originally Posted by Rhianu

Whether or not special characters should be permitted is completely different issue and not even remotely related to the discussion at hand. Some might argue that special characters are distracting from the fantasy setting, which is a perfectly valid stance.

There is absolutely nothing distracting about the absence of surnames. Allowing players the choice would not have the same impact as allowing special characters. Not even close.

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They are both options. You said that options are always good. I simply demonstrated how you pulled out a completely illogical blanket statement.

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Actually, it is neither easier nor harder to remember two names than it is to remember one. It wouldn't be that difficult to remember that Billy Bobcat and Johnny are two different people, despite the fact that only one of them has a surname.

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Not really. When you allow a large number of Option 1, which is simpler than Option 2, but still part of Option 2, people will be naturally encouraged to remember only the Option 1 part of Option 2.

But anyway, ill let this thread sink. The vast majority of posters is obviously in favor of surnames, trolls have been exposed, surnames won't go away and everyone knows it.
Ultimately it's so minor that it's not even worth discussing.

I am against removal of surname thing. I like surnames, makes game different !

No xxxSephirthxxx, xxSephirothxX, etc....

I miss the /tell <t> command for sure,why did they remove that it helped alot....

Abriael, the fundamental systems of this game earned it a 49% meta score. SE wouldn't have fired Tanaka for implementing those crappy systems into it's game if everyone was like you - a person who gobbles up whatever slop SE dumps on his plate.

You should be thanking people like me who are offended that SE would even release such a heap after making us anxiously wait 5 long years.

I vote to keep the surnames. The lack of clever/cool surnames is the problem of the person who made the character.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Thanks for identifying yourself even more as a troll. It wasn't really needed though. Like metascore and silly awards given by website mean anything (especially since they're based on the state of the game 6 months ago).

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I'm pretty sure that game scores and awards mean a lot, since they can and do have a direct impact on sales numbers. And honestly, the game really hasn't changed all that much since launch. Sure, the lag is pretty much gone, and most of the problems with the UI have been ironed out, but it's still pretty much the same game. Even after all the updates, I'd say that on a scale of 1 to 10, FFXIV only deserves maybe 1 or 2 more points today than it received from critics at launch.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

They are both options. You said that options are always good. I simply demonstrated how you pulled out a completely illogical blanket statement.

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The difference is that one of the options can be distracting from the fantasy setting of the game, while the other cannot. Therefore, it is illogical to say that they are equivalent.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Not really. When you allow a large number of Option 1, which is simpler than Option 2, but still part of Option 2, people will be naturally encouraged to remember only the Option 1 part of Option 2.

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Uh... no. People won't have any problem remembering different names, even if some people have surnames and some don't. It will not make anything more difficult in the slightest, I assure you.

While the game did get a 49% metascore for the fundamental systems, I kinda doubt that the surname function wasnt one of its problems......

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Originally Posted by BelgianRofl

It's funny how you're defending the systems in a game that won Worst Game of 2010 and has a 49/100 meta score. The small minority of people who gobble up whatever SE puts on their plate do not have valid opinions on what makes a system good or not.

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I had my opinion validated by an approved notary.

So, don't even pretend like my opinion isn't valid. I have the documentation at home, filed under "D" for document.

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Originally Posted by LuciBlack

/thumbsup for surnames

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Yep I agree :D

Notaries don't validate opinions. They observe signatures...

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Originally Posted by BelgianRofl

Abriael, the fundamental systems of this game earned it a 49% meta score. SE wouldn't have fired Tanaka for implementing those crappy systems into it's game if everyone was like you - a person who gobbles up whatever slop SE dumps on his plate.

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Interesting. You aren't very informed, are you? The fundamental systems of the game (for instance the armory system) are the most praised feature by basically every critic whose reviews led to that (honestly silly) metascore. Funny how you flaunt something but then you don't even agree with what brought it up.
Oh, Tanaka hasn't been fired. He's still part of the team. No one, to our knowledge, has been fired due to FXIV. Again, you might want to get a bit more informed before posting.

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You should be thanking people like me who are offended that SE would even release such a heap after making us anxiously wait 5 long years.

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Interesting. The game has been announced little more than 1 year before release. So no. You didn't wait 5 years. Also, being "offended" by a game is laughable. What the game needs is constructiveness. Pouting because SE "offended" you is absolutely laughable, even if not surprising, looking at your attitude.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

The game has been announced little more than 1 year before release. So no. You didn't wait 5 years. Also, being "offended" by a game is laughable. What the game needs is constructiveness. Pouting because SE "offended" you is absolutely laughable, even if not surprising, looking at your attitude.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgtZvn5c4e4

My thoughts on this is to have them be optional. leave the 2nd line blank if you only want one name

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Originally Posted by Rhianu

I'm pretty sure that game scores and awards mean a lot, since they can and do have a direct impact on sales numbers. And honestly, the game really hasn't changed all that much since launch. Sure, the lag is pretty much gone, and most of the problems with the UI have been ironed out, but it's still pretty much the same game. Even after all the updates, I'd say that on a scale of 1 to 10, FFXIV only deserves maybe 1 or 2 more points today than it received from critics at launch.

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LOL. You're playing that bland, generic piece of crap called rift a tad too much, since you don't seem to know the current state of the game at all. FFXIV has shown, in the first 5 months, the highest rate of improvement of the MMORPG history.
Review scores mean nothing, as they're written by goons that didn't even play the game for more than a few hours (and a MMORPG cannot be judged in that small of a timeframe), as demonstrated by their under-rank-10 characters on the lodestone, that makes everyone that knows even a little bit about journalistic integrity roll on the floor laughing.

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The difference is that one of the options can be distracting from the fantasy setting of the game, while the other cannot. Therefore, it is illogical to say that they are equivalent.

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So now you're backpedaling? Where has the "options are always good!" gone?

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Uh... no. People won't have any problem remembering different names, even if some people have surnames and some don't. It will not make anything more difficult in the slightest, I assure you.

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You can deny basic psychology as much as you want. And assure people that you're right as much as you want. AFter all on forums i see people denying even basic physics, so i'm not that surprised :D

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Originally Posted by BelgianRofl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgtZvn5c4e4

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That isn't even related to FFXIV, in fact the engine is completely different. So "anxiously" wait a game over a completely unrelated tech demo of an unnamed game?
Doesn't work like that. They announced FFXIV at E3 2009, and that's exactly how much we have to wait. If you wanted to be "anxious" over something entirely unrelated, that's your choice, not SE's fault.

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Originally Posted by BelgianRofl

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgtZvn5c4e4

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WHO GIVES A FLYING F*** ABOUT WHAT THEY RATED IT? YOU'RE PLAYING THE GAME STILL AREN'T YOU?

... By the by, I wish Limsa looked like that, that looks pretty wicked cool!

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Originally Posted by Abriael

Oh, Tanaka hasn't been fired. He's still part of the team. No one, to our knowledge, has been fired due to FXIV. Again, you might want to get a bit more informed before posting.

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Depends on how you define the word "fired."

If you mean completely losing his employment at SE, then no, Tanaka hasn't been fired. However, if we mean simply being removed from his current position and job within SE, then sure, use of the term "fired" wouldn't be entirely inaccurate.