Will the combat-class changes go live pre-expansion?

If cross class skills change, then I think it would be better to implement them before the launch of the expansion...
But if everything stays the same except they do away with the base classes, it doesn't really matter.

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Originally Posted by Fluffernuff

How do you introduce such a system as an expansion feature when your game supports players without expansions? you can gate content, but how do you gate systems?
I for one think this change should probably be implemented beforehand

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You give it to all players at the same time. I still fail to see why that is an argument for getting the changes beforehand.
Why does someone who does not own HW and SB need the changes to apply on, let's say, the 1st of June instead of the 20th?
He has from the 20th until eternity to get used to them. Literally nothing changes between having it a few days earlier or later. It's still inevitably coming.

Same with endgame players. Everyone gets it at the same time, everyone has to get used to it equally, everyone has to level through SB first anyway.
Having the changes in place several days earlier changes LITERALLY NOTHING.

The only "argument" I can see is that people are worried about balance issues, but that's what QA and test server are for, not the live servers.
And let's not kid ourselves, balancing will be adjusted on the live servers anyway come SB, no matter if the date for the combat system change is a week ealier or later.

The changes from 1.0 to 2.0 were bridged through extensive beta testing. If the changes are that intense for 3.0 to 4.0 and beta is not there, it is obvious to expect a couple of weeks of adding the changes for people to adjust.

It is irrelevant on whether or not that was the case for other games, cause 2.0 to 3.0 didnt introduce any fundamental changes to existing classes, therefore there was no need for that.

In the end, it all boils down to whether the changes will be that big or meaningful.

I would rather see it a month or so beforehand, say in their last major patch. Either way, I'll not be buying stormblood until I am convinced it's not going to be a button nightmare.

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Originally Posted by RaijinSupreme

But since there will be abilities that you won't get until you reach level 70, What would be the point in having to relearn my job before the expac comes out, just for me to have to relearn AGAIN after it comes?

Why couldn't I just relearn my job during my progression from 60-70?

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I think you're missing what most of the combat changes will be. No one is asking for their new abilities early. What people want is the new ui tools for tracking things like buff stacks and dots and the hotbar changes. Ability changes are small by comparison.

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Originally Posted by DBelmont

The changes from 1.0 to 2.0 were bridged through extensive beta testing. If the changes are that intense for 3.0 to 4.0 and beta is not there, it is obvious to expect a couple of weeks of adding the changes for people to adjust.

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2.0 is a new game. It is not an expanion from 1.0. And new games have beta. And SB will not be a rebuild again.

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Originally Posted by Felis

2.0 is a new game. It is not an expanion from 1.0. And new games have beta. And SB will not be a rebuild again.

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Yep, as a legacy player from 1.x I can tell you that the code for the game along with everything else is 99.99% different. They kept a couple of things and a couple legacy systems but that was a total systemic overhaul. This is an overhaul to one system, so while it is warranted to be part of an expansion it does not meet the criteria for Beta testing on any scale outside of internal.

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Originally Posted by Felis

2.0 is a new game. It is not an expanion from 1.0. And new games have beta. And SB will not be a rebuild again.

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There are beta tests for pretty much every other mmorpg, including their expansions, except this one.

Besides the point, as I said, have major functional changes being put in before the expansion could be important. Not the new 62-70 abilities...but the changes to the combat system which is supposed to change combat gameplay as a whole.

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Originally Posted by KusoWat

There are beta tests for pretty much every other mmorpg, including their expansions, except this one.

Besides the point, as I said, have major functional changes being put in before the expansion could be important. Not the new 62-70 abilities...but the changes to the combat system which is supposed to change combat gameplay as a whole.

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They arent really changing the combat system.

Making provoke available to all tanks regardless of Gladiators level isnt so much a combat change as a QOL measure lol....

I don't see why not. Would be good for people to see how they have changed the combat pre-expansion and make changes which they need to make. I really don't want to spend the first hour re-organizing my hotbar when expansion is live haha.

People have the whole 60-70 grind to work things out (as well as possibly having day-1 access to lv 70 abilities via the next iteration of deep dungeon). Bad idea.

Yes and also give us the story pre-expansion. And some dungeons pre-expansion. And the gear sets, and the quests and the Raid and the primals. Screw it. Just give us all the expansion pre-expansion. Basically move all expansion launch earlier and start releasing 5.0 pre 5.0. Seriously. It comes when it comes.

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

Because Blizzard does it SE should too? I don't know if i agree with that since WoW is bleeding subs super hard right now. I'd rather have a good MMORPG instead of a reskin of a failing game.

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We're literally talking about either revealing future changes so that the company can potentially respond to issues presented before the expansion's release, at which point the player-base won't have the luxury of complaint in the rush to early progression -- best is best, no matter if only 1% of choices are now viable, and no matter the quality of life that state gives. Just because Blizzard may on rare occasion present ideas for testing, ask for feedback, and follow some of that feedback (however poorly), doesn't mean that SE would be cloning another MMO by doing the same, rather than making changes without concrete notice and saying that it's "too late to change things now" upon release.

I just don't even... what?

i dont really see an advantage in this , ull have enough time to learn while leveling ^^

its better to let the devs focus on polishing the expansion

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Originally Posted by Greven

The preorder grants you few days of pre-access to the game where everyone can try the new things.

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Let's be honest though, as far as anyone waiting on the expansion is concerned, Early Access IS the official release date. Unless those four days were specifically unfavourable for you or you had only a fleeting interest in FFXIV, then there's literally no reason not to pre-order as far as I know?

Having to level from 60-70 will give you MORE than enough time to adjust to the new system. No reason they need to rush it early.

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Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

Because Blizzard does it SE should too? I don't know if i agree with that since WoW is bleeding subs super hard right now. I'd rather have a good MMORPG instead of a reskin of a failing game.

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You know that actually, between FFXIV and WoW, it's the war. If something work on one, the other tries to copy it in a different way. Let's not talk about WoW's legendary weapons you need to upgrade like FFXIV's relics.

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Originally Posted by Knahli

Let's be honest though, as far as anyone waiting on the expansion is concerned, Early Access IS the official release date. Unless those four days were specifically unfavourable for you or you had only a fleeting interest in FFXIV, then there's literally no reason not to pre-order as far as I know?

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Let me stop you right there. Pre-ordering is a very dangerous game, and nobody should play it. If the next expac is shit, you should know that before buying it, and you can play something else in that case.

Eventually, everyone gets burned and learns to stop pre-ordering. When no-one does it anymore, we can finally stop having companies try and sell us something that doesn't exist yet.

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

Let me stop you right there. Pre-ordering is a very dangerous game, and nobody should play it. If the next expac is shit, you should know that before buying it, and you can play something else in that case.

Eventually, everyone gets burned and learns to stop pre-ordering. When no-one does it anymore, we can finally stop having companies try and sell us something that doesn't exist yet.

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oh give the fear-mongering a rest. Everyone has a fairly good idea on what we are going to get.

If i'm going to buy the game anyway, theres no reason NOT to pre-order it. Better not buy that house before someone else has to make sure it doesnt fall down on you. better not eat that food before someone else does to make sure its not poisoned.

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

Let me stop you right there. Pre-ordering is a very dangerous game, and nobody should play it. If the next expac is shit, you should know that before buying it, and you can play something else in that case.

Eventually, everyone gets burned and learns to stop pre-ordering. When no-one does it anymore, we can finally stop having companies try and sell us something that doesn't exist yet.

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You can almost always tell if you won't want to play a game well before release. I have never gotten burned on a pre-order because I only pre-order games I want. I can guarantee you I want Stormblood and that I won't be "burned" or regret the purchase.

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Originally Posted by Knahli

then there's literally no reason not to pre-order as far as I know?

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The main argument I see against pre-ordering are from people that are firmly against pre-paying for a product before it's out just in case it's terrible. Now I certainly don't believe that about Stormblood myself, but I do think it's a perfectly logical viewpoint

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

oh give the fear-mongering a rest. Everyone has a fairly good idea on what we are going to get.

If i'm going to buy the game anyway, theres no reason NOT to pre-order it. Better not buy that house before someone else has to make sure it doesnt fall down on you. better not eat that food before someone else does to make sure its not poisoned.

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You know, I felt the same way about Warlords of Draenor. We can all look back and see how that went.

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

You know, I felt the same way about Warlords of Draenor. We can all look back and see how that went.

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Eh, SE doesn't have a habit of changing the core game with expansion though, like Blizzard does :P

Well I could see a casual player that doesn't invest a lot of time into XIV not pre-ordering, but if person plays XIV a lot of course they going to pre-order the new expansion right away.