Using 3rd party tools to call out Box Spawns / Enemy Buffs / DR considered cheating?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by natyusha

I simply find it hilarious how someone can think that actual hacking has "0 difference" from using callouts. Why do you think that I would use a theft vs piracy argument? Both are clearly distinct concepts while also being wholly illegal.

---

Because you're arguing the semantics of how the tools are implemented and we're arguing within the context of the "spirit of the game" or whatever you want to call it; they both provide a huge outside advantage that normal players either do not have access to, or do not use out of respect for their opponents/team mates/the developers. Consider speed hacks and 3rd party call-out tools. They're both considered cheating (by the devs and I would say the vast majority of PvP players) and at the end of the day even though they're implemented in different ways they both accomplish the same goal of giving said player a large advantage over any player who doesn't use said tools. We can argue til we're blue in the face about which one provides a 'larger' advantage but there is "0 difference" in what they are: cheats.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by natyusha

I'm not trying to justify anything nor am I endorsing the use of third party tools. I simply find it hilarious how someone can think that actual hacking has "0 difference" from using callouts. Why do you think that I would use a theft vs piracy argument? Both are clearly distinct concepts while also being wholly illegal.

Parsing via network (packet) data and memory is a clear example of parsers infringing on the "law" but Yoship and the TOS both fail to mention anything about the ingame battle log which is why anyone who wants to convince themselves that gathering data from said log is acceptable will continue to do so.

One thing I would like to see is the inclusion of numerical HP values for players on the enemy team / enemy mobs. I would also advise anybody who does not like the use of callouts in pvp to turn of their HP overlays while pvping to avoid a possible advantage.

---

This is really funny coming from you.

Also please do not quote my post and add words that I have never said in it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by natyusha

I'm not trying to justify anything nor am I endorsing the use of third party tools. I simply find it hilarious how someone can think that actual hacking has "0 difference" from using callouts. Why do you think that I would use a theft vs piracy argument? Both are clearly distinct concepts while also being wholly illegal.

---

Your argument is weak because you are trying to make ACT use seem fine just because there is something "worse" (speed hacking). ACT callouts is cheating. Speedhacking is cheating. Anyone who uses either is a cheater. Bottom line.

And as others have said, this is amusing, as it's coming from the accused.

I think you guys are confused. I have never made any posts on the forums advocating the use of third party tools. My previous two posts straight up compared parsers to illegal activities. I'm not even disputing the fact that you consider both things as cheating.

The only thing I am questioning is the line of reasoning that is being represented here. Someone could be drophacking to instantly win a match and you would consider that as having "0 difference" from triggers. If that is your belief so be it.

Also, try to avoid naming third party tools as some pillars of the pve community have been forum banned in the past for mentioning them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yukumazi

please do not quote my post and add words that I have never said in it.

---

I didn't quote your post. This is a quote.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by natyusha

I think you guys are confused. I have never made any posts on the forums advocating the use of third party tools. My previous two posts straight up compared parsers to illegal activities. I'm not even disputing the fact that you consider both things as cheating.

The only thing I am questioning is the line of reasoning that is being represented here. Someone could be drophacking to instantly win a match and you would consider that as having "0 difference" from triggers. If that is your belief so be it.

Also, try to avoid naming third party tools as some pillars of the pve community have been forum banned in the past for mentioning them.

---

Cheating is cheating dude.

From my point of view the Jedi are evil.

Everyone using this kind of "tool" should be banned.

On a side note, i guess this is one of the reasons they're opting for chat "restrictions", i couldnt be more happy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Etrius

On a side note, i guess this is one of the reasons they're opting for chat "restrictions", i couldnt be more happy.

---

0 relation. wat?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Etrius

Everyone using this kind of "tool" should be banned.

On a side note, i guess this is one of the reasons they're opting for chat "restrictions", i couldnt be more happy.

---

If anything we might see MORE people using act due to chat restrictions...

the fact that people are actually debating this means pvp is fked mate.

No pvp isnt f**k, the cheaters are only a very tiny minorities.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by natyusha

I'm not even disputing the fact that you consider both things as cheating.

The only thing I am questioning is the line of reasoning that is being represented here. Someone could be drophacking to instantly win a match and you would consider that as having "0 difference" from triggers. If that is your belief so be it.

---

I don't know why you are trying to make this argument in the first place. You can argue whether or not what you are doing is something small compared to something else but you are still admitting it is the same thing, aka cheating?

I don't think I have seen that many people try to argue that doing a 'small' cheat is ok since there are bigger cheats existing.

.-.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chocolys

What people consider "cheating" will be opened to personal interpretation. What is not in the Final Fantasy XIV User License aggreement.


BUt practically as far as I know, SE has no way to know if someone is breaking these rules for the tools you describe, unless the person directly admits it directly inside FF XIV chat.

---

Streaming it on twitch should be enough to get the guy a ban

This thread along (with the inferior hotbars) is the reason why non PC users shouldn't even bother to Feast in the first place. And you can stream whatever you want you can't use that as evidence to get people banned, SE has to catch you doing it and there's no way for them to detect him doing this. Claiming the cheaters in PVP are a majority or minority is stupid as well no one has any way of knowing either way. So if you pvp just pvp cause you like it cause it's an after thought in the game and the field will never be level.

Just thought I'd necromancy this thread for the benefit of the newcomers to PVP so they know what they're facing. :3

People who use tools like that for callouts are the lowest of the low and should be reported.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dimitrii

This thread along (with the inferior hotbars) is the reason why non PC users shouldn't even bother to Feast in the first place.

---

What kind of crap logic is this and how is being a non PC user at all relevant to someone cheating in the Feast?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormfur

People who use tools like that for callouts are the lowest of the low and should be reported.

---

Ironically, they tend to be the highest of the high on the Feast leader boards. =(

Which is why I'm all for making the rewards attainable by others who put in the effort.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormfur

Which is why I'm all for making the rewards attainable by others who put in the effort.

---

Likewise. Surely 200 Feast wins is 200 Feast wins, regardless of whether it's done in one instance (unranked) or another (ranked). The maps are the same, the players the same... Everything is the same!

I picked 200 as a number off the top of my head. I know people placed last time with less than a quarter of that.

Stop turning every thread into, "millennials got participation trophies growing up so everything should be a partition trophy for the rest of my life!". This isn't a problem with the majority of the top 100, this thread was very specifically targeted towards someone who replied to it. Lance Armstrong won the tour de France by doping for years... Does that mean we should go back and reward all participants 1st place medals? No... It doesn't.. Just.. Stop...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TiramisuMacaron

Lance Armstrong won the tour de France by doping for years... Does that mean we should go back and reward all participants 1st place medals?

---

This probably isnt the best example lol. He was stripped of his Tour de France titles, and the only reason they chose not to award them to anyone else was because doping was so prevalent at the time. But yeah. I'm inclined to agree that cheating probably isn't an issue with the vast majority of players, based on experience and lack of evidence otherwise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Culfinrandir

Ironically, they tend to be the highest of the high on the Feast leader boards. =(

---

Honestly, it sounds like you're just fishing for excuses as to why you're not on the top 100. Like saying "I can't do better at (insert thing) because (insert external factor out of my control)". You're crossing a line, though, when you start making direct accusations, like this one, with absolutely no tangible evidence.

I'd say most of the people in the top 100 (at least on my data center) got there fair and square. There were some win traders but it looks like SE took care of them before the final tally. Maybe some slipped by, I'm not sure. But I saw many names I recognized as good PVP players. Not sure about other data centers.

I don't do ranked at all, so no fishing here. What I do a lot is watch Twitch streams & there's a lot of people who openly use tools to help them, they even discuss it "superspeed now", automatic voice calling "healer has limit break", watching them click on opposition players & getting all their stats (DPS, HPS, LB status, cooldowns) etc . There's also web forums explaining how to cheat. It's hardly rare. Keep telling yourselves that there's no cheats though... After all, the grapes are green anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Culfinrandir

I don't do ranked at all, so no fishing here. What I do a lot is watch Twitch streams & there's a lot of people who openly use tools to help them, they even discuss it "superspeed now", automatic voice calling "healer has limit break", watching them click on opposition players & getting all their stats (DPS, HPS, LB status, cooldowns) etc . There's also web forums explaining how to cheat. It's hardly rare. Keep telling yourselves that there's no cheats though... After all, the grapes are green anyway.

---

No one is saying cheats don't exist. They are just not as rampant as you lay claim. A potato with speed hack is just a fast potato. You make it seem like 99% of the top 100 cheats, which is not the case.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Culfinrandir

.

---

If that were true, by now someone would have made a recording and posted it on youtube so we could all laugh at the cheaters.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Enlial

If that were true, by now someone would have made a recording and posted it on youtube so we could all laugh at the cheaters.

---

There's been quite a few posted elsewhere but as they contain names of players they can't be posted here.