Why people hate bard using songs?

give this a read: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...al-exploration I look for players that understand these principles.

Playing songs has its place.

on the other side i ask myself why Brds won't play mp songs for smns... yesterday i asked for it after ressing 2x in a row and got mad with ruin III cause oom (2 Highlevel-Brds in grp) and the answer was "Healers are fine."... oh okay... so its healers only huh?... Next time the answer will be "res is healer only as well - hakuna mata gypsy!" o.o

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Originally Posted by RiisWolf

ALSO, funny how suddenly someone after my comment have been saying BRD is stronger than MCH, when I keep hearing for the longest time it was MCH. So which is it? He making something up on the fly or do I have another reason to not trust the MIN/MAXer I'm stuck with who NEVER shuts up about "WHAT THE TOP TEAMS PREFER"?

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How about you take a look in fflogs then you'll see which one of them it is. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Neela

on the other side i ask myself why Brds won't play mp songs for smns... yesterday i asked for it after ressing 2x in a row and got mad with ruin III cause oom (2 Highlevel-Brds in grp) and the answer was "Healers are fine."... oh okay... so its healers only huh?... Next time the answer will be "res is healer only as well - hakuna mata gypsy!" o.o

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Wondering if it's even worth it..
Each ruin upgrade costs 884 MP, which is 100 refresh potency, so it takes 3.3 ticks of MP song to gain that.
Getting the 3 upgrades a rez costs back means 30s of MP song.
A 10% penalty over 30s could be considered similar to losing 10% of the time, so 1 GCD + 1 tick of each dot, so let's say about 150+90 = 240.
Then turning the song on costs a GCD as well, so another 150 potency (at least), so 390 potency is lost for BRD as a rough guess (BRDs could give a more accurate estimate maybe :P)
390 > 3*120.. so I'd not expect a brd to just sing MP for a SMN..

well... they won't even do 1 potency if they kiss the ground and no-one is willing to res them but yeah... DF and empathy got bad the last months and will get even worser with the 4.0 potions. ^^'

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Originally Posted by Ilan

How about you take a look in fflogs then you'll see which one of them it is. :rolleyes:

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You shouldn't be so quick to believe everything you see on FFlogs.
FFLogs has less to do with individual player skill and more to do with how much your friends are willing to do to make you look better. The only reasonable way to get a top ranking parse is if you get to skip out on mechanics, get fed boosted cards, have others hold off so you can pad your numbers with aoe, among other things. I know some people did exactly that even to 1UP some jerks in the raiding community in their server, because they know how untrustworthy those numbers can be and how easy it is to abuse the system.
So please give me a more trustworthy answer next time.

You only want to use TP/MP songs when your party requests it, or when they are really out of gas and they don't have any resources to kill stuff.

For content like dungeons, people just want to get in and get out quick, which means fast dps. TP and MP songs reduce your dps by 10% which is nothing to scoff at, especially on big pulls.

Songs that you'll want to use are Foe's Requiem + Battle Voice for your healers' and casters' dps, Swiftsong in between pulls, and The Warden's Paean on Warrior when they use Berserk.

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Originally Posted by RiisWolf

You shouldn't be so quick to believe everything you see on FFlogs.
FFLogs has less to do with individual player skill and more to do with how much your friends are willing to do to make you look better. The only reasonable way to get a top ranking parse is if you get to skip out on mechanics, get fed boosted cards, have others hold off so you can pad your numbers with aoe, among other things. I know some people did exactly that even to 1UP some jerks in the raiding community in their server, because they know how untrustworthy those numbers can be and how easy it is to abuse the system.
So please give me a more trustworthy answer next time.

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You can single out push runs in there.

Figured I'd add my two cents here. The only time bards should use recovery songs is when a healer has either been recently raised, or has had to raise multiple times in an encounter, thus draining their MP. Army's Paeon is rarely used, though there are situations if someone has been raised and doesn't have Invigorate, such as a WAR, or if they have been dealing damage over an extended period and have thus drained their TP. The only reason people could get upset over Foe Requiem is if you use it before a tank pulls, thus aggroing the boss/adds or if you for some reason use it when nobody is dealing magic damage. So if the situation calls for it, play on, and be sure to point out the situation if someone gets angry.

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Originally Posted by Neela

on the other side i ask myself why Brds won't play mp songs for smns... yesterday i asked for it after ressing 2x in a row and got mad with ruin III cause oom (2 Highlevel-Brds in grp) and the answer was "Healers are fine."... oh okay... so its healers only huh?... Next time the answer will be "res is healer only as well - hakuna mata gypsy!" o.o

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As a smn main for a long time, why the heck are u resing ppl in the first place, healer usually have swift cast up. Unless ur ask to resz or the other healer die and swift cast is down keep on dpsin.

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Originally Posted by SundayTrash

As a smn main for a long time, why the heck are u resing ppl in the first place, healer usually have swift cast up. Unless ur ask to resz or the other healer die and swift cast is down keep on dpsin.

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This is quite common as a relief on healer mp when many rezzes are occuring, and singular raise will not punish your dps enough to leave the entire burden on healers, especially when shit is blowing up ( like the chaos that can spawn during diabolos because everyone forgets what dodging is). Your dps doesnt mean anything if your healers run out of mp and you wipe. Summoners also uses eye for eye on tanks too. I know shocking. Using your utility, blasphemy.

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Originally Posted by Erudito

Because bard is just plain weak and giving other party members "support" does cover up these weakness. They hit like wet noodles outside of their openers or when their (long!) cooldowns are available.

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um fflogs says otherwise, parsing says otherwise. if hitting like a wet noodle means 5-10.2% less than a "strong" dps class at top tier content ( source: https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/4/#aggregate=amount , https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/4/...nt&dataset=100 , https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/13/#aggregate=amount , https://www.fflogs.com/statistics/13...nt&dataset=100 ) then wet noodles got a major upgrade since I last checked. Also in some of those, "strong" dps classes pulled weaker than the wet noddle =3

if what you mean to say is they lack burst outside of their openers, that is completely different.

Bard is not weak, only the player behind it

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Originally Posted by Maero

Bard is not weak, only the player behind it

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^ This.

Bards have some of the highest potential when it comes to DPS numbers. However, they have a very low skill floor and a very high skill ceiling. It's easier to play a bard and be terrible/mediocre than it is to be a bard and play it well.

I sure don't - as someone who mains WAR and frequently plays with BLMs and SMNs, I love having BRDs in my parties for Foe's and Warden's Paean. Naturally, using the songs and the rest of the job correctly is what matters - BRDs, like all jobs, are perfectly capable of being very valuable when played right.

...Did we really have to necrothread this thread? >w>

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Originally Posted by SundayTrash

As a smn main for a long time, why the heck are u resing ppl in the first place, healer usually have swift cast up. Unless ur ask to resz or the other healer die and swift cast is down keep on dpsin.

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after maining whm for more than a year I might get the situations right when a smn res could be helpful and when not - that being said AuroA covered it very well.

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Originally Posted by AuroA

This is quite common as a relief on healer mp when many rezzes are occuring, and singular raise will not punish your dps enough to leave the entire burden on healers, especially when shit is blowing up ( like the chaos that can spawn during diabolos because everyone forgets what dodging is). Your dps doesnt mean anything if your healers run out of mp and you wipe. Summoners also uses eye for eye on tanks too. I know shocking. Using your utility, blasphemy.

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thx at least some people got it right :3