Seeking Suggestions on Laptop

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Originally Posted by Issac

Kay, thanks. ^^v

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np, glad to have been of service, now run along on those lala legs back to wherever you came from :D




back on topic for the OP,

if 3D is that important to you, I strongly recommend that you go with a desktop setup instead, as 3D would place additional demand on graphical resources that will be detrimental to all but the most power mobile gpu, which is hardly the most cost effective way to do it.

If you must have 3D in a laptop however, I reiterate what I mentioned earlier, go for at least a 560M or above

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Originally Posted by ispano

An argument is an argument, be it on the internet or in real life. Someone being wrong or misleading with incorrect information, intentional or not, is the same be it online or off.

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There's a big social difference that you might be forgetting about. It's easy to sound like an expert on anything when you have all the time in the world to type a response. All you need is a grasp of proper English and Wikipedia.

On the phone, a response is expected immediately. In person? Whole different ball park. For one, there's body language. There are all sorts of subconscious visual cues to tell how confident one is in what they are saying. Shifty eyes, the way a person leans, and what one is doing with their hands just to name a few of so, so many.

In an argument, one can raise their voice. One can use aggressive body language and express frustration with such.

Arguing on the internet leaves all that out. With enough effort from both parties it can literally go on seemingly forever.

See the below link:
http://www.cracked.com/funny-3809-in...nt-techniques/

Now, I'm not saying anyone here is like that now, but after reading that, you tell me arguments on the internet carry as much eight as arguments in person or on the phone.

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Originally Posted by Issac

There's a big social difference that you might be forgetting about. It's easy to sound like an expert on anything when you have all the time in the world to type a response. All you need is a grasp of proper English and Wikipedia.

On the phone, a response is expected immediately. In person? Whole different ball park. For one, there's body language. There are all sorts of subconscious visual cues to tell how confident one is in what they are saying. Shifty eyes, the way a person leans, and what one is doing with their hands just to name a few of so, so many.

In an argument, one can raise their voice. One can use aggressive body language and express frustration with such.

Arguing on the internet leaves all that out. With enough effort from both parties it can literally go on seemingly forever.

See the below link:
http://www.cracked.com/funny-3809-in...nt-techniques/

Now, I'm not saying anyone here is like that now, but after reading that, you tell me arguments on the internet carry as much eight as arguments in person or on the phone.

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It's still an argument. Misleading is misleading, online or off. Phrases such as "you won an argument on the internet" is to belittle someone. And it's actually quite easy to tell when someone knows what they're speaking about compared to someone who just googled the subject at hand. Biggest clue is when they seem to have some information on the subject, but are lacking something vital that doesn't come up in the first bit of a search. A small few people will actually be able to pick up the information that quickly, and it usually shows. Yes it can seemingly go on forever.

But you know what? It's still an argument. And if information is provided, not just from the person's words, but evidence, then ridiculing that person just makes you look worse than you may have by not doing so.

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Originally Posted by ispano

It's still an argument. Misleading is misleading, online or off. Phrases such as "you won an argument on the internet" is to belittle someone. And it's actually quite easy to tell when someone knows what they're speaking about compared to someone who just googled the subject at hand. Biggest clue is when they seem to have some information on the subject, but are lacking something vital that doesn't come up in the first bit of a search. A small few people will actually be able to pick up the information that quickly, and it usually shows. Yes it can seemingly go on forever.

But you know what? It's still an argument. And if information is provided, not just from the person's words, but evidence, then ridiculing that person just makes you look worse than you may have by not doing so.

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I know that two wrongs don't make a right, but don't you think he took the first shot?

"fail, fail, fail, etc."

Isn't that much more belittling? In any case, any arguments online are generally pissing contests. Almost all of us are guilty of it spare the rare few that omit belittling or inflammatory comments meant to get a rise out of someone. Maturity is hard to come by on the internet when you're not at risk of defaming yourself in real life.

Though, by the looks of some people on facebook, not everyone is afraid of that. :p

I didn't realize the internet is hello kitty online where everyone is required to baby everyone else. I have little patience for people who insist they're correct after being told they're wrong and why, yet continue to make patently false statements without any sign that they've bothered to look into the subject at all.

It's like arguing with someone who insist that the sky is baby-pink instead of blue, which is caused by magic ponies spreading their magic happy powder around, while they refuse to even take one look outside their window to see what color it actually is.

if its nvidia get a "GT" on your video card at the lowest or if your spending big "GTX", "M" is too weak
i wouldnt bother with ATI graphics on a laptop.

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Originally Posted by Aenarion

I didn't realize the internet is hello kitty online where everyone is required to baby everyone else. I have little patience for people who insist they're correct after being told they're wrong and why, yet continue to make patently false statements without any sign that they've bothered to look into the subject at all.

It's like arguing with someone who insist that the sky is baby-pink instead of blue, which is caused by magic ponies spreading their magic happy powder around, while they refuse to even take one look outside their window to see what color it actually is.

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Stop spreading false information. The sky is leaf-green. And the ponies don't make it green, it's the flying pixie hobbits. Have you looked outside your window? How can you mistake flying pixie hobbits as ponies?

People today, yeesh.

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Originally Posted by indira

if its nvidia get a "GT" on your video card at the lowest or if your spending big "GTX", "M" is too weak
i wouldnt bother with ATI graphics on a laptop.

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eh, M denotes that it's a mobile gpu, which is all you're gonna get in a laptop... you can't exactly get a regular 560 in a notebook, lol.

Nothing wrong with AMD mobile gpus either, the 6990M for example is a damned fine performer.

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Originally Posted by Issac

Stop spreading false information. The sky is leaf-green. And the ponies don't make it green, it's the flying pixie hobbits. Have you looked outside your window? How can you mistake flying pixie hobbits as ponies?

People today, yeesh.

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if you have nothing else to add, why don't you just quit embarrassing yourself? or is being evasive and fail at sarcasm really that fun for you? or perhaps you actually went and checked things out and realized just how ridiculous your claim was?



naw, doubt it

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Originally Posted by Aenarion

if you have nothing else to add, why don't you just quit embarrassing yourself? or is being evasive and fail at sarcasm really that fun for you? or perhaps you actually went and checked things out and realized just how ridiculous your claim was?

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Desktops: Gaming
Laptops: Utility

I never researched heavily into laptops for gaming. Know why? I'm a desktop enthusiast. My opinion is biased. It always will be.

I can't build a laptop like I can build a desktop. Parts are too damn small. I know of a couple companies that have offered something close, but I just don't hear anything new these days. I'm sure if I were really into it, I could take on a laptop project like that x-top from a couple years back. That was actually really, really cool.

But trust me, I'm not embarrassed. That post you quoted wasn't meant to be a jab. It was a silly response to a silly statement. My opinion is obviously different from yours, but no amount of jeering is going to change my mind. I won't admit I'm wrong because I truly believe laptops aren't ready for reliable gaming yet. I don't see it feasible to break the bank every few years to play new games when my desktop can handle games to come for the next ten for half the price. There are many, many factors in why I think the way I do.

Know what I really want? A tablet. Why don't I have one? They're over a grand and can't do enough to justify that price. Sure, they're neat, but too damn expensive. A laptop with a fairly recent card that won't burn through my desk and floor? Give me some prices. Tell me what performance rating it will have next year. Two years from now? Three? Four?

What kind of maintenance are we talking about to make sure it doesn't die from overheating? Air duster to the fan? Taking it apart very carefully (As replacement parts can be a bitch to find sometimes) to make sure I get all the dust out? Re-applying a better thermal paste to the CPU and GPU? I'll be honest with you, I hate working on laptops. I usually charge more to do it.

And maybe I should also carry around a cooling stand with a couple fans that might drop the temps 3-6C. I've seen them used, I've seen how effective they were. Are they worth the bag space for a few degrees?

I'm very stingy about GPU temps. I had 2 cards(470's) on SLI in my desktop with stock cooling fans. Running FFXIV jacked them past 85. I really didn't like that so I got water cooling blocks for them. Now? They don't pass 60, and I like it that way. I bite my nails when I see mobile GPUs pass 90C. I don't like it. Even 70C is too high for my comfort, and I've seen gaming laptops IDLE there.

But please, go ahead and pick apart everything I've said to boost your personal confidence as you've done over and over. I'm your target of the week, I'll take the burden. I hope it makes you feel well. And no, I'm not being sarcastic. If you enjoy it, please, be my guest.

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Originally Posted by Issac

Desktops: Gaming
Laptops: Utility

I never researched heavily into laptops for gaming. Know why? I'm a desktop enthusiast. My opinion is biased. It always will be.

I can't build a laptop like I can build a desktop. Parts are too damn small. I know of a couple companies that have offered something close, but I just don't hear anything new these days. I'm sure if I were really into it, I could take on a laptop project like that x-top from a couple years back. That was actually really, really cool.

But trust me, I'm not embarrassed. That post you quoted wasn't meant to be a jab. It was a silly response to a silly statement. My opinion is obviously different from yours, but no amount of jeering is going to change my mind. I won't admit I'm wrong because I truly believe laptops aren't ready for reliable gaming yet. I don't see it feasible to break the bank every few years to play new games when my desktop can handle games to come for the next ten for half the price. There are many, many factors in why I think the way I do.

Know what I really want? A tablet. Why don't I have one? They're over a grand and can't do enough to justify that price. Sure, they're neat, but too damn expensive. A laptop with a fairly recent card that won't burn through my desk and floor? Give me some prices. Tell me what performance rating it will have next year. Two years from now? Three? Four?

What kind of maintenance are we talking about to make sure it doesn't die from overheating? Air duster to the fan? Taking it apart very carefully (As replacement parts can be a bitch to find sometimes) to make sure I get all the dust out? Re-applying a better thermal paste to the CPU and GPU? I'll be honest with you, I hate working on laptops. I usually charge more to do it.

And maybe I should also carry around a cooling stand with a couple fans that might drop the temps 3-6C. I've seen them used, I've seen how effective they were. Are they worth the bag space for a few degrees?

I'm very stingy about GPU temps. I had 2 cards(470's) on SLI in my desktop with stock cooling fans. Running FFXIV jacked them past 85. I really didn't like that so I got water cooling blocks for them. Now? They don't pass 60, and I like it that way. I bite my nails when I see mobile GPUs pass 90C. I don't like it. Even 70C is too high for my comfort, and I've seen gaming laptops IDLE there.

But please, go ahead and pick apart everything I've said to boost your personal confidence as you've done over and over. I'm your target of the week, I'll take the burden. I hope it makes you feel well. And no, I'm not being sarcastic. If you enjoy it, please, be my guest.

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I'd come back with this one.

Desktop OR Laptop: Used for what it was designed to be used for.

I'm a computer enthusiast, more so than most, not all, but most. I've seen plenty of desktops that are not suitable for gaming, same with laptops, however the opposite is also true. Having a personal opinion that a certain device or type of device should not be used for a certain function, even when the manufacturer MADE it for that function, is fallacy. My "laptop" for example. It uses a hex core desktop CPU and dual mobile GPUs. Can't use desktop GPUs in it due to size, obviously. But unless i'm negligent in keeping it clean, it rarely if ever breaks 90c on the CPU, which is below what Intel states for max operating temperature. Now will running this thing at 90c cause it to die sooner than if it was running at say, 60c? Sure, but the life will still likely be longer than the the life of the laptop itself. And GPUs are typically designed to handle higher heatloads and CPUs, and mine barely hit 80c in this thing. The board in the thing is a modified X58, and while a normal consumer would likely not be building it themselves, it really is customizable.

This line isn't meant to be an insult, however I know people will easily take it as such. I wouldn't place you as a computer enthusiast, at least on first judgement. Sure you have put your GPUs under water, but two 470s doesn't make an enthusiast's computer unless you're strapped for cash or whatnot. I can't even use my desktop right now since I've been out of work for a while and it just uses far too much power to justify it right now.

So you openly state your opinion is biased? Doesn't really help your side much at all. Opinion is all fine and good until you pit it against factual information.

See, this is much better

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Originally Posted by Issac

I never researched heavily into laptops for gaming. Know why? I'm a desktop enthusiast. My opinion is biased. It always will be.

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Then perhaps you shouldn't have tried to pass judgement and offer advice on something that you yourself admit you have little knowledge of. Also, you're not the only desktop enthusiast here, being one certainly hasn't precluded me from keeping up with developments in other fields.

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Originally Posted by Issac

But trust me, I'm not embarrassed. That post you quoted wasn't meant to be a jab. It was a silly response to a silly statement. My opinion is obviously different from yours, but no amount of jeering is going to change my mind. I won't admit I'm wrong because I truly believe laptops aren't ready for reliable gaming yet.

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Let's just say one silly statement deserves another and leave it at that. It's your right to believe whatever you want, but know that reality contradicts your belief.

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Originally Posted by Issac

I don't see it feasible to break the bank every few years to play new games when my desktop can handle games to come for the next ten for half the price. There are many, many factors in why I think the way I do.

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Again with the exaggeration.... show me a desktop from 10 years ago that can handle today's game. FYI, that will be a Athlon xp/P4 system with a geforce 3. What games are you gonna run on that today? solitaire? Likewise, any system you built today is likely to be just as inadequate for gaming 10 years down the road.

PC gaming is an inherently expensive venture. The degree to which will vary greatly depending on what type of game one plays, but even then there are practical limits, and 10 years is way over the limit for most. Notebooks in general suffers from increased cost, nobody is claiming that's not true, but for some people the cost and other drawbacks is worth it for their particular usage.

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Originally Posted by Issac

Know what I really want? A tablet. Why don't I have one? They're over a grand and can't do enough to justify that price. Sure, they're neat, but too damn expensive. A laptop with a fairly recent card that won't burn through my desk and floor? Give me some prices. Tell me what performance rating it will have next year. Two years from now? Three? Four?

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time to do more homework again. I don't know where you're shopping for your tablets, but even Apple doesn't overprice their tablets THAT much. The Kindle Fire is a whopping $200, while the Transformer Prime, which will be the most power tablet when it hits the street here in a couple weeks, is still only $499.

As for prices and models, check the following sites:

www.xoticpc.com
www.malibal.com

both are fairly popular vendors with good range of selections. Also, none will "burn a hole through your desk and floor". Will some run hot? yea, but unless you're playing in a scorching summer heat to begin with, it's really a non-issue.

also, i think the term you're looking for here is "benchmark" (which doesn't change on a year by year basis btw) in which case:

http://www.notebookcheck.net/NVIDIA-...M.48313.0.html

is one example. the 560m is comparable to a desktop gtx 450, so it'll remain adequate for as long as that does.

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Originally Posted by Issac

What kind of maintenance are we talking about to make sure it doesn't die from overheating? Air duster to the fan? Taking it apart very carefully (As replacement parts can be a bitch to find sometimes) to make sure I get all the dust out? Re-applying a better thermal paste to the CPU and GPU? I'll be honest with you, I hate working on laptops. I usually charge more to do it.

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that's pretty much it, though re-application of thermal paste doesn't have to be done very often, maybe once every couple years, though some never bothered to change it.

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Originally Posted by Issac

And maybe I should also carry around a cooling stand with a couple fans that might drop the temps 3-6C. I've seen them used, I've seen how effective they were. Are they worth the bag space for a few degrees?

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I use a cooling stand not so much for the fans, but rather to elevate the laptop away from the desk surface, as most doesn't leave enough room underneath for proper airflow IMO

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Originally Posted by Issac

I'm very stingy about GPU temps. I had 2 cards(470's) on SLI in my desktop with stock cooling fans. Running FFXIV jacked them past 85. I really didn't like that so I got water cooling blocks for them. Now? They don't pass 60, and I like it that way. I bite my nails when I see mobile GPUs pass 90C. I don't like it. Even 70C is too high for my comfort, and I've seen gaming laptops IDLE there.

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Unfortunately fermi isn't the coolest card in the world, and the physical proximity that comes with sli configs means even more restriction in airflow, especially for the upper card. I was spiking into the low 80s when I used to run 2x oc'd 5850s, so I understand where you're coming from. That being said, those cards are designed to operate at over 100C, and frankly my own reservation with the temp. has more to do with system stability rather than hardware longevity. Higher voltage is potentially far more detrimental than elevated operating temp.

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Originally Posted by Issac

But please, go ahead and pick apart everything I've said to boost your personal confidence as you've done over and over. I'm your target of the week, I'll take the burden. I hope it makes you feel well. And no, I'm not being sarcastic. If you enjoy it, please, be my guest.

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done and done, though I certainly don't need, nor will I get, any "personal confidence" boost from this thread. I know fully well to what extent my knowledge in these fields go, which is simply something that's gained over the years by working with these stuff. Frankly you yourself sounds like you have as well, which makes this all the more baffling. There's nothing wrong with having a bias, but one shouldn't let that get in the way of being informed themselves - I greatly dislike Apple products in general, but that doesn't mean I don't know or acknowledge what they did get right.

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Originally Posted by ispano

My "laptop" for example. It uses a hex core desktop CPU and dual mobile GPUs.

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*yoinks the x7200*

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Originally Posted by Aenarion

*yoinks the x7200*

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Don't make me beat you with my desktop, I can barely lift it anyways.

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Originally Posted by Issac

Desktops: Gaming
Laptops: Utility

I never researched heavily into laptops for gaming. Know why? I'm a desktop enthusiast. My opinion is biased. It always will be..

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What's the point of commenting on a subject you don't know anything about then? Why not just sit back at let people who have experience with gaming laptops offer advice? You lost your credibility the moment you said a laptop would require liquide nitrogen for cooling.

To the experts, am I pushing my 130M laptop to far? its a high performance hp hdx 16.
NVIDIA GeForce GT 130M with up to 2815MB total available graphics memory with 1024MB dedicated

this is how i play currently to keep temps down within 85-90C but at the sametime maintaining decent graphic quality. I can play on standard but I feel like it'll burn up my machine.
Am I lowing its lifespan?


general drawing quality 5/10
background drawing quality low
shadow lowest
texture low
filtering low
30FPS

Any time you push a device, the hotter it gets, will lower it's life. The issue is that it's less of an effect compared to overvolting during overclocking. And if said temps are under the maximums for the device, it should still last plenty long, unless you decide to go play on the carpet or something.

Also I personally wouldn't associate the term "high performance" with a laptop such as that one.

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Originally Posted by ispano

Also I personally wouldn't associate the term "high performance" with a laptop such as that one.

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its year and a half old, and thats what it said at the time of purchased.

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Originally Posted by Andrien

to keep temps down within 85-90C

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..how do I even find out how hot the temperature in my Laptop is?
I think mine is becoming pretty warm when I play FFXIV for a long time..:confused:

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Originally Posted by Atoli

..how do I even find out how hot the temperature in my Laptop is?
I think mine is becoming pretty warm when I play FFXIV for a long time..:confused:

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You can use CoreTemp for CPU temps, and if you have a non integrated GPU, MSI Afterburner can help with those temps. It might even work with Integrated GPUs too, haven't tested personally.

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Originally Posted by Atoli

..how do I even find out how hot the temperature in my Laptop is?
I think mine is becoming pretty warm when I play FFXIV for a long time..:confused:

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I downloaded an app called PC Wizard 2010. its free.

edit: there is a newer version out btw

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Originally Posted by Andrien

its year and a half old, and thats what it said at the time of purchased.

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Was more of a jab at HP for using terms like that since most people will not understand or care that it's really not a performance model.

http://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html

HWMonitor also works for an all in one program, I just prefer coretemp since it will show both CPUs with all 12/24 cores on my desktop, and MSI Afterburner allows for overclocking.

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Originally Posted by ispano

Was more of a jab at HP for using terms like that since most people will not understand or care that it's really not a performance model.

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unfortunate, but true

@ Andrien

The 130M was a pretty low end part to begin with, unfortunately HP got ya on that one.

moreover your usual HP notebook chassis is designed more for size/look/low noise, heat dissipation isn't usually a top priority.

well as long as I can still run the game I'm fine. 2.0 should help out even more.

Thanks for the answers, so I need a program to see the temperature:)
I've got one now.
Is 50-60°C alright?

@atoli

yea, that's perfectly fine

Game plays great on my m14x. You don't NEED a desktop to play this game. Just one with a decent enough GPU.

Vid I made here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoJhR5Dy_Bk