Skipping MSQ

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Wonder if it's going to be kosher to kick well performing players from parties if I learn they use a jump pot.
I don't even want to play with people who skip cutscenes the first time.

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It'll be kosher as well when you get reported for booting them for a reason not listed on on SE's ToA

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Subs are generally a static source of income. If you want new features or more resources spent on the game or overhauls like the EU servers or the server upgrades we are getting their expense needs to be justified to the investors. The Cash shop allows that. If we want more from SE, they will need more revenue to justify it. After all its not like not upgrading the servers or hiring new staff would negatively effect profits that much. All that Sub money you mention is already been taken into account. Unless FF14 sees a massive growth in subs it's unlikely you would see substantially more money being reinvested into the game otherwise.

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So long as we're on the same page that it's fundamentally nothing but SE and shareholders milking us for more money then I'm happy.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

The problem with a new game+ system they already said is due to how the Quest system is structured. Even things like Airships wouldn't be accessable till you re-unlocked them. You would loose all your progress. That is a system issue and unless they overhaul that system it is likely problematic to do.

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Take the 2.0 and 3.0 MSQ's, copy and paste into 2 new questlines that are unlocked from the Wandering Minstrel, same dialogue, same cut scenes, technically "different" quests. It seems pretty easy to me, maybe it just didn't spring to mind when Yoshi was asked?

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Originally Posted by Belhi

As for why they wouldn't offer this for free, it's simple. It's to limit access for RMT and botters to later points in the game.

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They'd still have to pay for the expansions. It isn't like a skip potion is going to be any better from a user point of view, they're RMT, they can afford it. If it's introduced we'll get botters at later points in the game.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

I would also ask, how does someone else skipping that game experience negatively impact you? Did you find playing that content a bad thing? I can find the only real issue is their potential performance endgame and that can be mitigated with Tutorial systems. Otherwise there isn't much logic to your argument.

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It doesn't negatively impact me, at the moment, but it's where you draw the line. As I said in the other jump potion thread, at the end of the day their is very little fundamental different between experience points, tomestones and the relic weapon, they're all time sinks. No matter how bad you are at the game so long as you're prepared to grind you can have everything I mentioned. Selling experience points opens the door to selling tomestones, or "progression gear" or "relic accelerators", selling jump potions is the definite end of the 'cosmetics only' cash shop.

I made this thread because I do have some sympathy for the new guy, I can see how signing up to play with your friends and being gated by 300 quests might seem insurmountable at first. I think it could maybe even be good for the new players to start with Stormblood, get invested in the game, and then see the original story line at a later date when they want to do it to level up their characters 2nd or 3rd job.
But, this game is like 90% time sinks, I think if we start selling ways round them on the mogstation we set a very risky precedent.

Edit: I must also add, that although it doesn't affect me at the moment, depending on the final price leveling potions could potentially do a lot of harm to leveling roulette. I think their are long term problems with level boosters that could seriously harm the game, that would effect me.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

So long as we're on the same page that it's fundamentally nothing but SE and shareholders milking us for more money then I'm happy.

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Someone has never seen the adult world of business and investment. We aren't being extorted because they aren't withholding content. The closest thing on the cash shop that even comes close is eternal bonding, which has a free version without the fluff. Nothing in the cash shop contributes to gameplay in any way.


My personal view on jump potions is that they are fine but are seriously being considered prematurely. "But WoW has a levelling potion" people say... Yes, a levelling potion that was introduced in their fifth expansion to get a level 90 character. WoW was an 10 year old game at that point (we can treat XIV as a brand new game starting from ARR, as 1.0 can no longer be accessed). And they should definitely be paid for as a service not unlike server transfers and fantasias.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

My personal view on jump potions is that they are fine but are seriously being considered prematurely. "But WoW has a levelling potion" people say... Yes, a levelling potion that was introduced in their fifth expansion to get a level 90 character.

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I mean, this would largely be unnecessary IF the MSQ wasn't a massive roadblock to doing pretty much anything meaningful in the game when a new expansion drops. I don't really think that anyone thinks the LEVEL boosting is mandatory, more that the story/MSQ skip part is.

If I were to be frank, I'd rather they just remove the mandatory MSQ flags on everything and let people bounce around to the content that they choose, so long as their level is adequate. But if the devs are going to keep insisting that everyone at least spam-click through their juvenile anime trope-fest than they need to give people a way to opt out of it, even if that way involves paying real-people dollars to do so.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Someone has never seen the adult world of business and investment. We aren't being extorted because they aren't withholding content. The closest thing on the cash shop that even comes close is eternal bonding, which has a free version without the fluff. Nothing in the cash shop contributes to gameplay in any way.

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A. Nothing in the cash shop contributes to gameplay in any way yet. A level potion would quite clearly affect gameplay. I also never said extortion. I said it's about getting more money, which it is, because it's a business and that's what they'll do. Our job is to get the best deal possible, the system doesn't work if we just immediately accept whatever's on offer.

B. How many times are people going to tell me that SE is a business? I know it's a business, I know it exists to part us from our cash, I know that's the reason why these things happen. What everyone seems to ignore is that explaining why doesn't justify it. You have to keep companies on their toes to keep them honest. That's the 'adult world', saying 'whatever you give us is fine' is never going to get you anything better.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

A. Nothing in the cash shop contributes to gameplay in any way yet. A level potion would quite clearly affect gameplay.

B. How many times are people going to tell me that SE is a business? I know it's a business, I know it exists to part us from our cash, I know that's the reason why these things happen. What everyone seems to ignore is that explaining why doesn't justify it.

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Actually it does. Because the only justification in the free market for offering your product is that there are people who want to buy it


Now it is a whole other can of worms if this is like say, customer friendly, good in the long term and so on, which are/can be debated, but its still justify it perfectly

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Originally Posted by Belhi

Subs are generally a static source of income. If you want new features or more resources spent on the game or overhauls like the EU servers or the server upgrades we are getting their expense needs to be justified to the investors.

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No investors, only shareholders. And they are not interested in the income of a single project, only in the total income of SE.

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Originally Posted by Kaitoo

Actually it does. Because the only justification in the free market for offering your product is that there are people who want to buy it
Now it is a whole other can of worms if this is like say, customer friendly, good in the long term and so on, which are/can be debated, but its still justify it perfectly

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Something being profitable does not in itself make it justified. Selling heroin is profitable, packing malware into your game can be profitable, sacking employees who get pregnant or fall ill improves profits. None of it is justified though.
The capitalist system, at its core, is morally questionable. It's about using the worst aspects of human nature to drive progress, it works, but only when Governments and customers work to keep it in check.

Oh, and while I think a cash shop in a subscription MMO is pretty damn shady, I obviously don't think it's of anywhere near comparable severity to selling heroin. Before anyone jumps on that...

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Something being profitable does not in itself make it justified. Selling heroin is profitable, packing malware into your game can be profitable, sacking employees who get pregnant or fall ill improves profits. None of it is justified though.

Oh, and while I think a cash shop in a subscription MMO is pretty damn shady, I obviously don't think it's of anywhere near comparable severity to selling heroin. Before anyone jumps on that...

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Sry but these are all illegale so i stand corrected.

And if these are not illegal in your country, then yes, they are justified. You offering something that people want and are willing to pay for. I dont understand why you cant grasp the concept of the whole free market since couple of centuries

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Originally Posted by Kaitoo

Sry but these are all illegale so i stand corrected.

And if these are not illegal in your country, then yes, they are justified. You offering something that people want and are willing to pay for. I dont understand why you cant grasp the concept of the whole free market since couple of centuries

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Fine, morally justified.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Fine, morally justified. It was clearly what I meant, but whatever.

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If you did mean that you should have also read this:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3938521


"Now it is a whole other can of worms if this is like say, customer friendly, good in the long term and so on, which are/can be debated, but its still justify it perfectly"

I'm really not sure the malware one is illegal you know.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

It'll be kosher as well when you get reported for booting them for a reason not listed on on SE's ToA

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"Differences in playstyle" is considered a valid reason for removing someone. Not that I've ever done so.

id be ok with what the OP posted if and only if it was a requirement that you have at least 1 job to lvl 50 before your aloud to skip lvles so you get a basic understanding of how rolls work and know your job

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Wonder if it's going to be kosher to kick well performing players from parties if I learn they use a jump pot.
I don't even want to play with people who skip cutscenes the first time.

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Pretty sure that will count as harassment, so don't even bother doing it. Should play with your friends only then if you feel that strongly against people using those potions.

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Originally Posted by RubyCirha

id be ok with what the OP posted if and only if it was a requirement that you have at least 1 job to lvl 50 before your aloud to skip lvles so you get a basic understanding of how rolls work and know your job

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You can grind to level 50 through leves, FATEs, and PotD. I wouldn't say that necessarily guarantees that you know how roles and your job works.

I'd say if you want to skip the story, pay £500 billion per character per class for it. Anyone who does that, well that's a trucktonne of money coming into Square Enix's pockets. You want to avoid grinding through the story in an MMO, best be prepared to pay out the nose for it. I'm OK with them adding an option to skip if a player really wants to, but it should be so expensive that it is considered an absolute last resort. I believe £500 billion meets that requirement (and then some).

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

I'd say if you want to skip the story, pay £500 billion per character per class for it. Anyone who does that, well that's a trucktonne of money coming into Square Enix's pockets. You want to avoid grinding through the story in an MMO, best be prepared to pay out the nose for it. I'm OK with them adding an option to skip if a player really wants to, but it should be so expensive that it is considered an absolute last resort. I believe £500 billion meets that requirement (and then some).

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Now can you say that again without the hyperbole? Thanks!

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Now can you say that again without the hyperbole? Thanks!

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There is none in there. That is genuinely how I feel. Yes, even the numbers I used.

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

There is none in there. That is genuinely how I feel. Yes, even the numbers I used.

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And that's why "feelings" are inferior to "reason".

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Pretty sure that will count as harassment, so don't even bother doing it. Should play with your friends only then if you feel that strongly against people using those potions.

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Pretty safe bet that if player action impacts the bottom line (i.e. less people want to buy jumping potions because of it) then it will result in a quick ban.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

The reason for a price on something like a Jump Potion is to make it financially unviable for Gold Farmers and Botters to use it to access high level areas.

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That's not 'the' reason at all. That's a happy circumstance. The 'reason' is profitability.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

"Differences in playstyle" is considered a valid reason for removing someone. Not that I've ever done so.

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But buying a cash shop item is not a playstyle. You have already outed yourself as someone who's not kicking people on how they play but rather what they buy and use.

Good luck explaining that under "differences in playstyle".

What I am afraid of is a spike of new player types who do not care for the story and may cause a disturbance for others who may want to enjoy the story unfold.

Examples:

• Rushing to bosses when a cutscene is playing.
  
• Shouting spoilers in game to annoy and frustrate players.
  
• Harassing or attacking a player for trying to enjoy the story during a raid or dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Reaperking386

What I am afraid of is a spike of new player types who do not care for the story and may cause a disturbance for others who may want to enjoy the story unfold.

Examples:

• Rushing to bosses when a cutscene is playing.
  
• Shouting spoilers in game to annoy and frustrate players.
  
• Harassing or attacking a player for trying to enjoy the story during a raid or dungeon.

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I'm not sure how this would only happen if jump potions get added into the game... There's already been lots of people saying that they don't care about the story. Why would a jump potion make them act volatile?

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Originally Posted by ErdrickLoto

I'm not sure how this would only happen if jump potions get added into the game... There's already been lots of people saying that they don't care about the story. Why would a jump potion make them act volatile?

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I am aware there are players out there, but allowing potions means that many players who do not have the patient's or interest in the story will clash with those that do. The numbers of these players will increase allowing these scenarios to increase, since they are not playing the game for its main purpose, but rather for gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Reaperking386

I am aware there are players out there, but allowing potions means that many players who do not have the patient's or interest in the story will clash with those that do. The numbers of these players will increase allowing these scenarios to increase, since they are not playing the game for its main purpose, but rather for gameplay.

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The gameplay is the main purpose. Of a game. It's a game before anything else. Same goes for any RPG. They're roleplaying games. Some people value the story above all else, but it doesn't change the fact that story itself is gated behind many elements of gameplay. You have to play the game to see the story unfold.

That being said, it does suck to have people rush ahead while you're trying to take in a cutscene, then have "watch it later at an inn" be thrown at you as justification. Can't say I have any solution to that one.

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Originally Posted by Reaperking386

What I am afraid of is a spike of new player types who do not care for the story and may cause a disturbance for others who may want to enjoy the story unfold.

Examples:

• Rushing to bosses when a cutscene is playing.
  
• Shouting spoilers in game to annoy and frustrate players.
  
• Harassing or attacking a player for trying to enjoy the story during a raid or dungeon.

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The devs already addressed the first by having cut-scenes only trigger before or after dungeons. The other two can get you suspended and/or banned.

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Originally Posted by Shirai

What I'd like to see as part of a solution here is that the MSQ up to Stormblood guarantees one level 60 DoW/DoM.

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This got me thinking about something I've seen MMO's (sub and f2P) doing lately. When you buy the latest expansion, you get a single free level boost for one character to go right in to the next expansion. I'd rather see that than level boosting potions in the cash shop.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

The devs already addressed the first by having cut-scenes only trigger before or after dungeons.

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Not entirely true. There are some dungeons that have cutscenes that play throughout. I believe one of the Castrums is like this. Also I think some of the Alex ones are too. And there are many that have cutscenes right before the final boss. I've had to skip many such scenes cause people are in such a hurry. I think I and another first time player got locked out of the final boss fight once cause the others ran ahead and didn't wait.

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Originally Posted by Amariel34

Not entirely true. There are some dungeons that have cutscenes that play throughout. I believe one of the Castrums is like this. Also I think some of the Alex ones are too. And there are many that have cutscenes right before the final boss. I've had to skip many such scenes cause people are in such a hurry. I think I and another first time player got locked out of the final boss fight once cause the others ran ahead and didn't wait.

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I think what they meant was since Heavensward. There is nothing that can be done about castrum and praetorium now, but the devs have learned from it (which is why ARF and singularity reactor are so much better). So yes, the devs have already addressed this as much as they ever can/will.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

I think what they meant was since Heavensward. There is nothing that can be done about castrum and praetorium now, but the devs have learned from it (which is why ARF and singularity reactor are so much better). So yes, the devs have already addressed this as much as they ever can/will.

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That's a good closure for that subject actually.

That said, I would never support skipping MSQ. I find it important because it is a line that ties the story and all the other quests together. Even if you are not a lore fanatic, you have a role to fulfil. Skip the cinematics, but the quest you need to click through and do, sorry.