ARC Auto-attack = Ranged attack..

I Still don't see why we can't use our bows to hit them with, I dislike punching I'm not a pug and would love to swing my bow like some kind of stringed club

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Originally Posted by Kaida

I Still don't see why we can't use our bows to hit them with, I dislike punching I'm not a pug and would love to swing my bow like some kind of stringed club

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Agreed. I must be one of the few that's glad it's not an auto-attack for ranged weapons. But being able to smack the enemy with our bow would be much better I think... Or how about some Archer specific gloves that have a blade attached to the shooting hand? Could have a special trait that increases damage of auto-attack. Yet since they're doing all these changes I still ponder if we might see some changes in damage from distances. In FFXI when firing a gun or bow there was a "sweet spot" where you dealt far more damage compared to standing up close or standing too far away. Closer meant you hit the target more effectively but dealt less damage, farther away meant you'd miss a bit more often but the damage increased. It made it worth it to try setting yourself up for the proper distance.

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Originally Posted by Mihana

Agreed. I must be one of the few that's glad it's not an auto-attack for ranged weapons. But being able to smack the enemy with our bow would be much better I think... Or how about some Archer specific gloves that have a blade attached to the shooting hand? Could have a special trait that increases damage of auto-attack. Yet since they're doing all these changes I still ponder if we might see some changes in damage from distances. In FFXI when firing a gun or bow there was a "sweet spot" where you dealt far more damage compared to standing up close or standing too far away. Closer meant you hit the target more effectively but dealt less damage, farther away meant you'd miss a bit more often but the damage increased. It made it worth it to try setting yourself up for the proper distance.

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This would be terrible, it sucked on ffxi. Not only does it make soloing terrible but it also messes with other things. Not only do you have to perform your /ra by manually hitting the key for every shot (issues such as lag, animation lock and human error meaning you dont get maximum TP/sec), you have to worry about being in the specific sweetspot (which is going to be impossible solo) all for subpar damage (since we're support now) while being the party's bard? This is the auto-attack replacement yet apparantly we want it as cumbersome as trying to line up a blindside?

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Originally Posted by Wevlum

The damage will probably suck (which fair enough we're a support class now), the animation lock will get us thoroughly owned against anything where position matters, requiring us to manually hit a button to melee screws us due to issues such as lag and the lack of command stacking, and what's more we have to pay gil for the priviledge of having the worst regular attack in the game? No thank you.

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Really, it's a combination of the first and third that annoys me the most. Why make a class pay for attacks and then have those attacks suck? Then second most is mashing the button to do an attack because of no command stacking, when they could just queue it up and force the animation to finish before the queue advances.

Honestly, I'm getting FFXI RNG vibes. Best class in the game gets nerfed to uselessness then never brought up to par with the other classes. But I'll reserve judgement until I see 1.20 myself. Who knows, SE might pull it out yet.

Edit: Also on the sweet spot thing, there's the fact that you can't actually see what your specific distance is from the target, which in FFXI meant you could only play RNG optimally with Windower. You should never have to cheat in order to play a class to its fullest.

Here's what I don't understand. They've gone on record as saying that they want to implement more battles that require precise positioning and movement, akin to the Ifrit fight. I'm guessing they'd like to start doing this immediately and not wait until 2.0 comes out. They've also said that animation lock is a problem that they're aware of and working on resolving. Despite that, they're still giving ARC a manual attack in place of a ranged auto attack. It's possible that I've missed some hidden post saying Light Shot will no longer cause animation lock; but that seems like something that would inspire a few threads of its own, so that seems unlikely. I don't understand why they would do this knowing that a lack of ranged attack that doesn't cause animation lock is what's keeping ARC from being invited to Ifrit.

The only way this decision can be fair to ARC is to make it unfair to melee classes by playing to ARC's strengths. That is, make another Batraal fight where melee get heavily punished while ranged sits back and DPSs from relative safety. Considering that's not what the majority of players want, though. . .

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Originally Posted by Teia

Really, it's a combination of the first and third that annoys me the most. Why make a class pay for attacks and then have those attacks suck?

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I don't mind the weakened damage too much because of ARC's ranged saftey net. But yeah the pay to shoot thing is annoying. They should just scrap arrows and allow us to equip quivers which are infinite.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Welp. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news (to some, and good news to others, I suppose)... But the "ARC auto-attack" on the action list was actually a mistake. It should have read "ARC standard attack" which is what I've updated that to. ARCs auto-attack will remain a swift punch in the face come patch 1.20 with the manual shot process remaining as it is currently.

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As I said before.. this patch fails more and more each and everyday.. I thought you guys were doing so well at first too.

Not cool, SE. I don't know why you're committed to making ARC soloing the most mind numbing thing ever, and devoted to the the idea that ARC is instantly gimped on any fights requiring movement (which, from the sounds of things, is "every major fight from here on out").

Bring in auto-shoot, seriously.

Also get rid of arrows. (They're useless as a game mechanic.)

Ya get rid of bows, bring us the Gatling-gun! (don't forget the inf-ammo bandanna)

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Originally Posted by Kaida

I Still don't see why we can't use our bows to hit them with, I dislike punching I'm not a pug and would love to swing my bow like some kind of stringed club

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I would prefer to shoot an arrow for a ranged auto attack because it only makes 100% sense. Not punching the enemy. An arrow shot close range to the face may even be more deadly than a far away shot. They better take this into consideration and add it after this spoof.

You people do realize they already announced Skill Queues are coming back in 1.20 right? Your complaining about a problem that does not exist. If you can't run and press attack simultaneously maybe you should switch jobs..

I'm constantly selecting what skill I want to do next, so my character rarely ever does an auto-attack punch. I would not like to have a ranged auto-attack personally, I like to pick and choose what skill I do, and don't want to accidentally punch that mob over there just because I'm in active mode. I think its fine how it is and am a little relieved that we won't be having a ranged auto-attack.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

You people do realize they already announced Skill Queues are coming back in 1.20 right? Your complaining about a problem that does not exist. If you can't run and press attack simultaneously maybe you should switch jobs..

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You're missing the point. The animation of Light Shot prevents you from moving, making Archer a worthless class to bring in any fight where you need to be ready to move in order to stay alive.

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Originally Posted by Issachar

They did the right thing by making melee DDs the primary source of damage in a fight and making ARC more of a support role from afar. ARC was so overpowered for a long time, and I hope they keep with this mindset that it should do less than Lancers and Marauders.

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Yeah, next we'll be seeing MRD become a support class too and then LNC and then ...

Giving ARC BRD is the worst decision Yoshi has made since taking over. Most archers want to do ranged DPS not sit casting buffs. Most support players don't want to play ranged DPS. Would be like giving MRD the WHM job, completely incompatible.

ARC used to be my main battle class, now I will never play it again.

Oh and not having auto attack on ARC is the second worst decision Yoshi has made since taking over.

Several peeps keep saying, "..Archer is support now so DPS is gonna suck...", yet I have yet to see anything definitive that shows Archer Attacks/Abilities are being nerfed. (They are being altered but so is everyone's.)

It seems to me that with the added Bard Abilities, esp. Bard Mag.3: Increases the physical and magic accuracy of all party members within range. and add to that the other Accuracy and Damage Bonus Abilities, Weapon Skills and Bonuses that Archer Damage will be just fine.

You could argue that time spent casting spells or Bard Abilities is time spent not shooting arrows so overall DPS will be lower but I dunno about the rest of you but I already spend a lot of time using abilities and spells to enhance Damage Output and/or to mitigate Damage Taken.

If you just absolutely hate the idea of being a Bard, ok, I get it but stop making assumptions about DPS till we get to try it out. We may just be pleasantly surprised. Personally, I am glad Archer is getting some Party Buffs and will be more useful than just DPS.

I wouldn't worry too much, this isn't the end all. I wouldn't swear off the class just yet. Who knows, the next round of "jobs" added might see a more damage only job attached to archer, and you could pick up that one instead. Right now its 1:1, but I think I read somewhere they said more jobs will have the possibility of springing forth from the classes in the future. This game is a work in progress and no where near being done.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

ARCs auto-attack will remain a swift punch in the face

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Hahaha, Bayohne is so awesome.

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Originally Posted by Xenor

Yeah, next we'll be seeing MRD become a support class too and then LNC and then ...

Giving ARC BRD is the worst decision Yoshi has made since taking over. Most archers want to do ranged DPS not sit casting buffs. Most support players don't want to play ranged DPS. Would be like giving MRD the WHM job, completely incompatible.

ARC used to be my main battle class, now I will never play it again.

Oh and not having auto attack on ARC is the second worst decision Yoshi has made since taking over.

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What job would you have proposed instead? RNG? Then you'd complain that it was "more of the same". ARC is not the same role as RNG, there is no Sidewinder in FFXIV, and the sooner you realize that, the better off you'll be. There's no valid argument in what you've said, and where else would you place the BRD class? GLA? PGL?

"Giving ARC BRD is the worst decision Yoshi has made since taking over."

Probably one of the best, actually, along with nerfing the horribly overpowered ARC while bringing importance to melee'ers.

WHAT A BAD JOKE >.<
For rlz. So disappointed, so disappointed

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Originally Posted by Corrderio

The animation of Light Shot prevents you from moving, making Archer a worthless class to bring in any fight where you need to be ready to move in order to stay alive.

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Have you played Lancer in the Ifrit fight? Doomspike has a long animation lock, much much longer than a light shot.
Any class is viable in the fight, it's all a matter of the player learning to hold back on using that next action.
The fight is about survival, not DPS zerging.

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Originally Posted by Issachar

Probably one of the best, actually, along with nerfing the horribly overpowered ARC while bringing importance to melee'ers.

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Lol what Nerf? My Archer still Pwns everything in sight.

Also, LOL at whoever that was who wants to be able to run and shoot their bow. Despite how unrealistic that is, I'm sure it will be addressed.

The Star Wars: TOR mechanics for ranged DPS is non-auto attack, unlimited ammo, and run-and-gun. I'm not even sure why we went back to auto attack in the first place but that's not the issue here. ARCs need run-and-gun.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

Lol what Nerf? My Archer still Pwns everything in sight.

Also, LOL at whoever that was who wants to be able to run and shoot their bow. Despite how unrealistic that is, I'm sure it will be addressed.

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...........
/facepalm

You don't think a lancer jumping several feet into the air and then plunging their spear into the ground to create an aoe effect is unrealistic? We really need to stop these "omg that's so unrealistic" arguments. It's pretty unrealistic for an archer to punch things to death due to them not wanting to damage their hands and leave them unable to use their bow. It's just a ridiculous argument for this kind of game.

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Originally Posted by Akuun

Have you played Lancer in the Ifrit fight? Doomspike has a long animation lock, much much longer than a light shot.
Any class is viable in the fight, it's all a matter of the player learning to hold back on using that next action.
The fight is about survival, not DPS zerging.

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Yeah...the difference is one is a damaging WS where you expend your TP... the other is how you actually get your TP.

If archer has to worry about even trying to build their TP instead of just when to use their WS what is the point in taking them? I'd like to use a light strike to get some TP for a WS but the enemy might wreak me

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Originally Posted by Kiote

Lol what Nerf? My Archer still Pwns everything in sight.

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You meant, your Lv. 30 Archer? Do tell! Don't be shy now.

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Originally Posted by Akuun

Have you played Lancer in the Ifrit fight? Doomspike has a long animation lock, much much longer than a light shot.
Any class is viable in the fight, it's all a matter of the player learning to hold back on using that next action.
The fight is about survival, not DPS zerging.

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Heres the thing about LNC, I can move and not have to worry about my AA locking me out. Archer on the other hand has to, meaning their DPS will suffer more. Top that on their already low DPS and they're crap.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Welp. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news (to some, and good news to others, I suppose)... But the "ARC auto-attack" on the action list was actually a mistake. It should have read "ARC standard attack" which is what I've updated that to. ARCs auto-attack will remain a swift punch in the face come patch 1.20 with the manual shot process remaining as it is currently.

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/siiiiiiiiiiigh~

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I know people seem to love auto attack but it really is an old an outdated system..

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they did try a non-auto attack then people cried, they give you auto attack now people dont want it, combos are next lets see who says it sucks.

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Originally Posted by indira

they did try a non-auto attack then people cried, they give you auto attack now people dont want it, combos are next lets see who says it sucks.

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Combos suck, they're such an outdated concept.

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Originally Posted by Corrderio

Combos suck, they're such an outdated concept.

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MMOs suck, they're such an outdated concept.

Oh wait.

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Originally Posted by Issachar

What job would you have proposed instead? RNG? Then you'd complain that it was "more of the same".

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No I wouldn't.

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Originally Posted by Issachar

ARC is not the same role as RNG, there is no Sidewinder in FFXIV, and the sooner you realize that, the better off you'll be.

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Erm, if you hadn't noticed 90% of the abilities currently in the game are being replaced by completely new abilities. Just because Sidewinder doesn't exist doesn't mean it can't exist. Who says RNG has to have Sidewinder anyway? There's no Water spell in the game from 1.20, does that mean BLM shouldn't exist too?

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Originally Posted by Issachar

There's no valid argument in what you've said, and where else would you place the BRD class? GLA? PGL?

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On a support class? BRD didn't have to be created yet, they could have made a new mage class, RDM perhaps with all the enfeebles they're taking away and BRD as job.

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Originally Posted by Issachar

Probably one of the best, actually, along with nerfing the horribly overpowered ARC while bringing importance to melee'ers.

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Just because it was over powered doesn't mean it deserved a job no ARCs want to play. They already nerfed it into line with other DDs in 1.19. Maybe even too much since I'd pick a MRD or LNC over an ARC every time when forming parties for just about anything. Even without the animation lock the class is way behind in damage, especially when it comes to AoE situations which are very common these days.

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Originally Posted by Wevlum

Yeah...the difference is one is a damaging WS where you expend your TP... the other is how you actually get your TP.

If archer has to worry about even trying to build their TP instead of just when to use their WS what is the point in taking them? I'd like to use a light strike to get some TP for a WS but the enemy might wreak me

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The issue is with the animation lock, not auto attacking.

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Originally Posted by Corrderio

Heres the thing about LNC, I can move and not have to worry about my AA locking me out. Archer on the other hand has to, meaning their DPS will suffer more. Top that on their already low DPS and they're crap.

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Archer's auto attack (punch) doesn't lock archer either, and this thread is about making ranged attacks auto.

I'm against auto ranged attacks because it's more problematic for sleeps, binds and other mechanics that break on damage.

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Originally Posted by Akuun

The issue is with the animation lock, not auto attacking.

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That's the point. ARC has to lock itself in just building TP via Light Shot.

Yeah you could AA up close via punch I guess but then face the same problem PGL has in getting hit with Sears (or having to jump in and out trying to avoid it).

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Originally Posted by Wevlum

...........
/facepalm

You don't think a lancer jumping several feet into the air and then plunging their spear into the ground to create an aoe effect is unrealistic? We really need to stop these "omg that's so unrealistic" arguments. It's pretty unrealistic for an archer to punch things to death due to them not wanting to damage their hands and leave them unable to use their bow. It's just a ridiculous argument for this kind of game.

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man but this also ruins teh immersion

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Originally Posted by Akuun

The issue is with the animation lock, not auto attacking.

Archer's auto attack (punch) doesn't lock archer either, and this thread is about making ranged attacks auto.

I'm against auto ranged attacks because it's more problematic for sleeps, binds and other mechanics that break on damage.

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That's the problem. You shouldn't be against it because you feel that ARC is somehow incredibly more difficult to control AA then you would on a melee class. In fact, what is the difference? A melee would avoid breaking those mechanics (ie sleep) just as ranged would, by turning around / canceling or changing target / disengage / spamming ESC / etc.. The players who can't manage pretty simple controls like these shouldn't necessarily govern the design of the class.

AA's primarily help TP build, but they also add a little dps, both things that ARC is seriously in need of right now.

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Welp. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news (to some, and good news to others, I suppose)... But the "ARC auto-attack" on the action list was actually a mistake. It should have read "ARC standard attack" which is what I've updated that to. ARCs auto-attack will remain a swift punch in the face come patch 1.20 with the manual shot process remaining as it is currently.

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/thumbs down

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Originally Posted by Imagene

well, hopefully the direction they're taking is to make archer dps less about hitting lightshot every available cooldown but deal significant amount of their dps through spikes.

but rather, pressing the light shot at an opportune time, to unleash a mega stacked multishot (which really should pay tp based on the arrows nocked). this would allow us to run freely to avoid void zones and make up the loss dps.

would make sense once bard comes in as buffs would be primary actions. and once buffs are done, we make up dps through spike (using cooldowns).

Archer cooldowns should really fit in between proposed Bard buff durations.

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Archers have one TP generating spell, asside from lancers invigorate, so tell me how this will work?

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Originally Posted by Scherwiz

Cool, a dumb down and a let down all in one week, HAPPY THANKSGIVING ALL!!! Am I the only person whose patience is running thin?

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I hear ya, can't wait for Guild wars II or Diablo III since this game has been such a beautiful letdown.

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Originally Posted by Exni

That's the problem. You shouldn't be against it because you feel that ARC is somehow incredibly more difficult to control AA then you would on a melee class. In fact, what is the difference? A melee would avoid breaking those mechanics (ie sleep) just as ranged would, by turning around / canceling or changing target / disengage / spamming ESC / etc.. The players who can't manage pretty simple controls like these shouldn't necessarily govern the design of the class.

AA's primarily help TP build, but they also add a little dps, both things that ARC is seriously in need of right now.

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I was gonna reply but yeah, this sums up what I was going to say.

An upvote for you good sir.

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Originally Posted by Akuun

Archer's auto attack (punch) doesn't lock archer either, and this thread is about making ranged attacks auto.
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And it's weaker than Light Shot, so you're sacrificiing MORE damage and putting yourself in harms way just to avoid the lock.

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Originally Posted by Aratharn

That's the point. ARC has to lock itself in just building TP via Light Shot.

Yeah you could AA up close via punch I guess but then face the same problem PGL has in getting hit with Sears (or having to jump in and out trying to avoid it).

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My main is pug, but i feel it's more of an issue with the fight not being balanced around multiple classes.

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Originally Posted by Exni

That's the problem. You shouldn't be against it because you feel that ARC is somehow incredibly more difficult to control AA then you would on a melee class. In fact, what is the difference? A melee would avoid breaking those mechanics (ie sleep) just as ranged would, by turning around / canceling or changing target / disengage / spamming ESC / etc.. The players who can't manage pretty simple controls like these shouldn't necessarily govern the design of the class.

AA's primarily help TP build, but they also add a little dps, both things that ARC is seriously in need of right now.

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You're against manual ranged attacks because you find it difficult to control.
It's not a matter of difficulty, it's a matter of control.

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Originally Posted by Corrderio

And it's weaker than Light Shot, so you're sacrificiing MORE damage and putting yourself in harms way just to avoid the lock.

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Auto-attack on all classes is pretty weak, most of the dps comes from the TP attacks.
Besides, the Ifrit fight is more about survival than DPS, and animation lock is usually what kills every class on that fight.
Especially true for mages who have longer cast times than our light shot attacks.