[dev1206] Class Reforms & Action Lists

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Makes your next attack a crit when executed from behind the target. Traits may trigger INT bonus.

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Wow just noticed that part after an reread, now i know why PGL INT is so high lol -.-

Maybe I need to try it first, but I suddenly don't want to play a mage anymore, which was the only type I wanted to play...

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Originally Posted by Starfall

PUG Abl. 4: Increases evasion and restores MP when an attack is evaded. Effect fades upon evading an attack or after a certain period of time elapses.

See bold red text

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That text does not imply that we get mp back after it fades, but it could have been translated wrong, it seems to be the same skill as feather foot we have now, so it could work the same way as it does now.

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Originally Posted by Firon

I see that but that's the problem if pgl is not gonna be tanking how do we get mp back?

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Umm bards......

BRD Mag. 1 Self AoE Gradually restores the MP of all party members within range.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

Umm bards......

BRD Mag. 1OSelf AoEGradually restores the MP of all party members within range.

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Bards are not in the next patch....

Go into passive mode and stand there just observing. Woop.

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Originally Posted by Firon

I see that but that's the problem if pgl is not gonna be tanking how do we get mp back?

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Amen.

1. MP pot : Ether

2. Pray your pt have bard for mp recover and dont even pray, PT will have bard (next patch)

3. 5 toggle that consume MP are element dmg and kick and the one prevent move or use skill will be remove after use a skill so np. At best you only active 2 and the 3rd will be on and off

4. ∟PGL WS 8 : Melee attack. Chance to absorb MP when executed from the right or left of the target.Combo: PGL WS 5, Bonus: Chance to increase Absorb MP effect.

so no, Mp wont be issue with PUG, just use stuff right

It looks awesome!!
I'm going to love my archer-bard!!! :D

Thank you very much for this wonderful change Yoshi-P!

edit: I know jobs just come in 1.21, still, that gives me the time to get used to the new archer actions.

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Originally Posted by Shneibel

Amen.

1. MP pot : Ether

2. Pray your pt have bard for mp recover and dont even pray, PT will have bard (next patch)

3. 5 toggle that consume MP are element dmg and kick and the one prevent move or use skill will be remove after use a skill so np. At best you only active 2 and the 3rd will be on and off

4. ∟PGL WS 8 : Melee attack. Chance to absorb MP when executed from the right or left of the target.Combo: PGL WS 5, Bonus: Chance to increase Absorb MP effect.

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Oh good i did not see the WS 8 effect i must have missed that nice pointing that out, does not seem so bad after all i guess.

I think this thing has a few typos. For one, why are there 4 fire spells for THM/BLM? I thought we were trying to avoid redundant abilities. Second, why do CON, THM, and BLM all have sleep spells? This is especially confusing since they actively mention CON being able to put mobs to sleep, whereas don't make that same mention for THM. Maybe I'm wrong, but I can't help but think that they made a mistake there.

Either way, still excited for PUG, MNK, and BRD.

I can see what they are doing with how they split the elements between Con and thm.

Traditionally in offline FF, whm generally gets Aero spell. Blm traditionally gets Fire, Blizzard, and Thunder. Water and Earth spells sometimes showed up but they were usually learned much later on and weren't used as much as these three basic ones.

So it seems they are trying to make it more like the tradtional FFs which I think is pretty cool. Although I'd love to hear how they are going to clear up this from a lore standpoint, lol.

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Originally Posted by Ilethius

Anyone else think MRD/WAR will be the new highest DD?

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They are already top DD have you not seen a MRD lawn mower party in stronghold getting 75k exp in 30 minutes?

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Originally Posted by Zetsumei_Tsunarashi

I can see what they are doing with how they split the elements between Con and thm.

Traditionally in offline FF, whm generally gets Aero spell. Blm traditionally gets Fire, Blizzard, and Thunder. Water and Earth spells sometimes showed up but they were usually learned much later on and weren't used as much as these three basic ones.

So it seems they are trying to make it more like the tradtional FFs which I think is pretty cool. Although I'd love to hear how they are going to clear up this from a lore standpoint, lol.

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Actually that's a good point. Can't believe I forgot that. Maybe Water and Earth will appear later as powerful BLM spells.

Don't know about WHM having Aero though.

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Originally Posted by Mihana

Actually these sort of spells didn't really ever make sense to me belonging to the Conjurer line. Thaumaturgy always dealt with life and death, nothing regarding the elementals that I could recall. Granted I haven't done the third and final THM quest yet so I could be wrong there.

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Conjury deals with nature and harmony of the elements, nature is life.
Thaumaturgy deals more with death and inner strength than "life".

I think it goes pretty well with the lore.

The Changes to the DoWs sound great!

However DoM got raped pretty badly. It seems to me Yoshi wants to make them just as generic as Mage Jobs in any other MMO. Giving them random spells and make them all have the same amount of Spells and abilities. We will have to see how it works out but DoMs lost a lot of charm in my opinion.

BLM gets convert - BLM Abl. 1 O Switches current HP and MP values.
ARC gets refresh - BRD Mag. 1 O Self AoE Gradually restores the MP of all party members within range.
WHM gets benidiction - WHM Abl. 2 O Instantly restores HP of all party members.

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Originally Posted by Malakhim

Actually that's a good point. Can't believe I forgot that. Maybe Water and Earth will appear later as powerful BLM spells.

Don't know about WHM having Aero though.

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Con is getting Stone as well as Aero.

Actually i think they look better all you do on thm is cast sac and some debuffs and stand there, wishing your spells didn't do 20 dmg to Ifrit.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

BLM gets convert - BLM Abl. 1 O Switches current HP and MP values.
ARC gets refresh - BRD Mag. 1 O Self AoE Gradually restores the MP of all party members within range.
WHM gets benidiction - WHM Abl. 2 O Instantly restores HP of all party members.

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Jinko are you online right nowz?

thm changed alot compared to the rest,now its basically blm and cnj is whm.

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Originally Posted by Firon

Jinko are you online right nowz?

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I can log in ..

Something I realized here:

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ARC Auto-attack - Ranged attack. Does not consume TP.

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Does this mean Archer's auto-attack is becoming a ranged auto-attack where they'll continuously fire arrows every few seconds? Unless we can move as we shoot I predict continual animation lock issues and really, nobody's going to want to party with an Archer for now on.

Conjurer: "I'm sleeping the mob! Hold on!"
Archer shoots it with an arrow and wakes it up.
Conjurer: "Dude WTF?! I said I was sleeping it!"
Archer: "It wasn't me! Auto-attack did it!"

IMO Ranged Attacks have to be the worst form of auto-attack to give unless it can be toggled outside of disengaging the enemy. Not only will we be wasting precious arrows repeatedly (Unless arrows are done away with and made unlimited, I so hope not!) but we'll break every sleep effect, every bind effect dealt to an enemy because we can't stop firing our bows.

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Originally Posted by Mihana

Something I realized here:



Does this mean Archer's auto-attack is becoming a ranged auto-attack where they'll continuously fire arrows every few seconds? Unless we can move as we shoot I predict continual animation lock issues and really, nobody's going to want to party with an Archer for now on.

Conjurer: "I'm sleeping the mob! Hold on!"
Archer shoots it with an arrow and wakes it up.
Conjurer: "Dude WTF?! I said I was sleeping it!"
Archer: "It wasn't me! Auto-attack did it!"

IMO Ranged Attacks have to be the worst form of auto-attack to give unless it can be toggled outside of disengaging the enemy. Not only will we be wasting precious arrows repeatedly (Unless arrows are done away with and made unlimited, I so hope not!) but we'll break every sleep effect, every bind effect dealt to an enemy because we can't stop firing our bows.

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This is what happens when everyone Q.Q for archer RA to be auto. Now we gonna have new thread stating how SE is wasting their arrow's lol

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

The moment i saw PGL going through so much MP, I knew BRD was gonna be another refresher, that we all HAD to have, in order to make an exp PT.... here we go again...
Now we need a tank a healer AND a refresher, just to make a PT.
/sigh

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Ok? What's the problem? Every MMO that's social based utilizes a tank, support and healer role for party and raid make ups. It's nothing new.

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Originally Posted by viion

I will copy/paste what I said in another thread:

The elementals makes no sense, you might as well just move them all across, why split them?

CON Mag. 10 be Stone
CON Mag. 8 be Aero

THM Mag. 5 be Fire
THM Mag. 8 be Lightning

THM Mag. 3 is Blizzard
BLM Mag. 4 maybe Freeze?

We missing Water all together (no skill does it) and AMs

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50 also isn't our max level cap. This is the list for up to 50.

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Originally Posted by Mihana

Something I realized here:



Does this mean Archer's auto-attack is becoming a ranged auto-attack where they'll continuously fire arrows every few seconds? Unless we can move as we shoot I predict continual animation lock issues and really, nobody's going to want to party with an Archer for now on.

Conjurer: "I'm sleeping the mob! Hold on!"
Archer shoots it with an arrow and wakes it up.
Conjurer: "Dude WTF?! I said I was sleeping it!"
Archer: "It wasn't me! Auto-attack did it!"

IMO Ranged Attacks have to be the worst form of auto-attack to give unless it can be toggled outside of disengaging the enemy. Not only will we be wasting precious arrows repeatedly (Unless arrows are done away with and made unlimited, I so hope not!) but we'll break every sleep effect, every bind effect dealt to an enemy because we can't stop firing our bows.

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this is not a valid excuse for ARC to not have AA because all can do the same mistake ARC does or worst than that

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Originally Posted by Mihana

Conjurer: "I'm sleeping the mob! Hold on!"
Archer shoots it with an arrow and wakes it up.
Conjurer: "Dude WTF?! I said I was sleeping it!"
Archer: "It wasn't me! Auto-attack did it!"

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Marauder and Gladiator Will you hens please stop clucking and focus. We have this under control.

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ARC Auto-attack - Ranged attack. Does not consume TP.

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I imagine it'll be an action on our bars. When you press it you start auto-attacking. Press it again and auto-attack stops.

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Originally Posted by Mihana

Conjurer: "I'm sleeping the mob! Hold on!"
Archer shoots it with an arrow and wakes it up.
Conjurer: "Dude WTF?! I said I was sleeping it!"
Archer: "It wasn't me! Auto-attack did it!"

IMO Ranged Attacks have to be the worst form of auto-attack to give unless it can be toggled outside of disengaging the enemy. Not only will we be wasting precious arrows repeatedly (Unless arrows are done away with and made unlimited, I so hope not!) but we'll break every sleep effect, every bind effect dealt to an enemy because we can't stop firing our bows.

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.....turn around?

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Originally Posted by Firon

I see that but that's the problem if pgl is not gonna be tanking how do we get mp back?

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I am with you. So far, the only fighting class I really enjoyed was Pugilist. At first glance, I am very unhappy that PGL is now going to rely on a lot of mp based moves. I didn't level PGL to be a magic user class, but a pure fighting class. It was, for me, a huge disappointment to read these mp based changes.

Restoring MP using the evasion based action is ok solo, but will likely be highly problematic during any party content. There needs to be at least one more option that does not rely on a mob trying to hit me during a party situation.

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Originally Posted by Shneibel

this is not a valid excuse for ARC to not have AA because all can do the same mistake ARC does or worst than that

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Uh, I didn't say they shouldn't have auto-attack, just not as a ranged version. Most people have common sense to turn away or run away from the enemy soon as it's slept and thus prevent auto-attack. With an Archer soon as you turn around you're going to shoot the enemy whether you want to or not. And again as I said it sticks you in a state of animation-lock (The prime reason nobody wants Archer for even Ifrit besides damage.) since you gotta stop and nock an arrow each time. Now if they let you shoot while moving then it solves that issue yet there's still the effect that you're using up your arrow supply. Of classes only Archer has to spend gil to deal damage.

And some types of arrows alone can get extremely expensive. Cobalt Arrows were running for about 130G per arrow in the market wards on Besaid in Ul'dah, 126K or so for a single stack last I checked. To those who don't play Archer as their main class it may not seem like a big deal, but to those who do, it is.

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Originally Posted by Reaujien

.....turn around?

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Again, unless they change it, not possible. Currently firing an arrow forces you to turn around. But there's still like I said, the issue of the animation lock.

Few things to point out after rereading once more, Why does THM need 4 AoE fire spells 1 from BLM 3 from THM.

The DEF spell CNJ has they should include magic def with hat spell as well.

Or disengage? I didn't think pressing the active mode button was hard. Virtually every other archer in mmos have their form of auto attack as well. I don't see why this is an issue.

Looking at Lancer/Dragoon, I'm slightly disappointed at the loss of a lot of our direct AoE (which may change) As well as the loss of Lifesurge, but I like most the other changes as they are seen on paper. But let's see how it actually plays.

For those complaining about MP pools and "needing" a refresher:

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CON Abl. 2 Temporarily halves enmity and gradually restores MP.

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This is a cross-class skill.

Mage elementals are slightly concerning. We'll have to see how it plays out. Maybe they are re-designing the elemental pairings. THM missing the "6 Elements" is a concern too. Perhaps a trait could be: Ice <--> Water.

I will miss Speed Surge as a LNC. Gaining Dark Knight type skills is rather interesting.

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Originally Posted by Mihana

Something I realized here:



Does this mean Archer's auto-attack is becoming a ranged auto-attack where they'll continuously fire arrows every few seconds? Unless we can move as we shoot I predict continual animation lock issues and really, nobody's going to want to party with an Archer for now on.

Conjurer: "I'm sleeping the mob! Hold on!"
Archer shoots it with an arrow and wakes it up.
Conjurer: "Dude WTF?! I said I was sleeping it!"
Archer: "It wasn't me! Auto-attack did it!"

IMO Ranged Attacks have to be the worst form of auto-attack to give unless it can be toggled outside of disengaging the enemy. Not only will we be wasting precious arrows repeatedly (Unless arrows are done away with and made unlimited, I so hope not!) but we'll break every sleep effect, every bind effect dealt to an enemy because we can't stop firing our bows.

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If that happens that means someone wasn't assisting the Tank or hitting whichever target it was assigned. So don't blame the mechanic, blame the player for not doing it's job.

I thought lnc still has an skill that grants hp to draining to atks but it just consumes tp now

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

The moment i saw PGL going through so much MP, I knew BRD was gonna be another refresher, that we all HAD to have, in order to make an exp PT.... here we go again...
Now we need a tank a healer AND a refresher, just to make a PT.
/sigh

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If exp parties are going to be anything like they are now, BRD is most definitely not going to be required no matter what other jobs you have in the group. Raids and Dungeons might be a different matter, however. I could see a BRD being required (by the community, but not by design) for some of the longer boss fights if they are ever implemented.

Life surge looks pretty intact to me:

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LNC Abl. 3 O Consumes TP to grant an Absorb HP effect to auto-attacks, up to a maximum of three stacks. Cannot be used simultaneously with LNC Ability 2.

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Hmm. LNC for me has always been about control. Control of the enemy's position and yours, control of the enemy's TP and yours, control of your attack speed, crowd control, etc. Some TP control might be left, but only for yourself not the enemy. Control of position is not there. Crowd control...well, two aoe ws, need I say more? No way to reduce enemy movement or speed, or change yours for that matter. In exchange for removing all that we get...high damage. Whoopee.
In effect: LNC went from support/DD to high dmg DD.

Naturally, specifics aren't known yet but it looks like LNC has been severely nerfed from what its concept used to be. :/

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Originally Posted by Holy_Dragoon

I will miss Speed Surge as a LNC. Gaining Dark Knight type skills is rather interesting.

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I'm kinda glad it's gone. Haste is toxic for gameplay as it dominates all other stats mathematically. If they do wind up using it, I hope it's sparse and non-conflicting.

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Life surge looks pretty intact to me.

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Lifesurge functioned on Weapon Skills.

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Originally Posted by Deminia

I am with you. So far, the only fighting class I really enjoyed was Pugilist. At first glance, I am very unhappy that PGL is now going to rely on a lot of mp based moves. I didn't level PGL to be a magic user class, but a pure fighting class. It was, for me, a huge disappointment to read these mp based changes.

Restoring MP using the evasion based action is ok solo, but will likely be highly problematic during any party content. There needs to be at least one more option that does not rely on a mob trying to hit me during a party situation.

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These are all actions a pug can use to get mp back.

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PUG Abl. 4 - Increases evasion and restores MP when an attack is evaded. Effect fades upon evading an attack or after a certain period of time elapses.

PGL WS 8 - Melee attack. Chance to absorb MP when executed from the right or left of the target.Combo: PGL WS 5, Bonus: Chance to increase Absorb MP effect.

CON Abl. 2 - Temporarily halves enmity and gradually restores MP.

THM Mag. 2 - Restores MP in proportion to damage sustained. Casts cannot be interrupted while effect is active.

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