Pvp Behavior Is Embarrasing

It's just salt talking most of the time, anyone how nice you are many high end pvpers lose control and the salt gets the better of them, just gotta take it with a pinch of salt, most of the time people arnt really that upset just upset for the moment they lost the match then it's over. Just gotta move on sucks but that's in any competitive anything

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Originally Posted by FreeKingStefan

I come from a place called earth where you cannot control the actions of other people. I don't let a couple of bad words stop me from doing things I enjoy, because frankly, I'm not that thin skinned. someone who talks that kinda smack to a complete stranger over losing a game of tic-tac-toe runs the risk of getting clocked in the jaw

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I think that's a bit more realistic. You can absolutely control the actions of other people IRL when they're interacting with you, to a MUCH greater degree I'd argue, than you can in the Feast

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Originally Posted by HaelseMikiro

I think that's a bit more realistic. You can absolutely control the actions of other people IRL when they're interacting with you, to a MUCH greater degree I'd argue, than you can in the Feast

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Trash talk happens in competition all the time. Tic-tac-toe is a solo game...so your comparison is terrible. Take a game of baseball, football, etc. for example. Play any moderately competitive sport, and if you are a detriment to your team, you WILL be reamed out...Or replaced. Unfortunately, you cannot replace your teammates in solo Q.

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Originally Posted by Vaeria

In the end..this is all Yoshi's fault for trying to make a politically correct PvP-Paradise of decency for all. Solution? Grow a pair. Cussing out nooblets (and vets, woo~) goes as much hand in hand with mmo pvp as does a box of Kleenx and a copy of- nvm. Its a time honored tradition..a rite of passage. Personally myself, I LIKE getting critized, insulted, and told do go fornicate with a cactus. Cuz sooner or later, yer gonna be on the other team...and thats when it reeeeally gets fun. THATS good PvP!

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No offense, but anyone who considers deeming inexperienced players a "rite of passage" is a moron not worth another thought. You build communities by recognizing you too were once a "newb" who needed some advice. Any idiot can be an asshole, but it takes some actual effort to help someone else.

I think most of the community is willing to help newbs out. However, the frustration lies where these people aren't listening to the chat and ignoring the advice given.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

snip-a-dee-doo

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Dunno what kinda sheltered pvp enviornment you were raised in..don't care. By using the term 'rite of passage' I'm not speaking about the way pvp SHOULD be...im simply acknowledging the way it IS. Its NOT noob-friendly..it NEVER was. Would it be nice if people were kinder? Yes. An end to world hunger would also be lovely. Til such said time occurs however, as I said, grow a pair, shut it out and ya..git gud so you can return favors. Thats the going fee for any mmo's pvp. I mean ffs...does the phrase 'Wolves Den' inspire visuals of a mother tenderly holding her child and nurturing it, or of good friends circle jerking around a warm campfire? Just speaking realistically, coming into pvp and 'expecting' a wholesome enviornment's just setting yourself up for bad.

I remember when I first started Pvping. I looked up guides, read through the relevant forum threads and asked others on my FC to show me the ropes BEFORE I even stepped foot in Frontlines. I wouldn't even imagine heading into ranked play where me being a novice could potentially cause others negative results. I feel that Frontlines is the perfect place for learning how to PvP. It's far and away a more friendly environment for newcomers and your mistakes are weighed far less in their overall effect on the match.

Is that too much to expect from new Pvpers strolling on into Feast in stacked acc gear, breaking boxes on monks and not even having Purify on their bars? And then their shocked and outraged when someone sprinkles some salt on their corpse?

I think it's total nonsense that it's expected they are coddled and be provided an insulated special snowflake chamber.

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Originally Posted by fallenalexiel

However, the frustration lies where these people aren't listening to the chat and ignoring the advice given.

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No. The frustration lies in the fact that people think these people are making them lose combined with the fact that they care about win/loss.

It's really as simple as that. It's not limited to newbies either - You can be a Platinum Wolf with 1000 games, people will still shout at you if they think you are a threat to their precious rating and ego. People simply hate losing and the whole rating process just makes it that much worse because now you can't just mentally wave it away - it's in the numbers. Worse, that guy just destroyed your progress! He deleted your save file! He kicked your sandcastle over! May this son of a motherless ogre step on a Lego! *dramatically shakes fist*
You get the idea.

PvP as such suffers from that issue, because losing is part of the game and as a consequence, PvP games are renown for their toxicity. It doesn't help that many players have "lording their ego over others" as prime motivation to PvP in the first place. That can't be erased - you can only ban repeated offenders and encourage positive behaviour on the player side and attempt to make the win/loss matter as little as possible to give people less reason to be upset on the system side. That's all you can do to minimize bad behaviour.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

No. The frustration lies in the fact that people think these people are making them lose combined with the fact that they care about win/loss.

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This is only partly true. Losing sucks, But what is infuriating is losing without the slighest chance of winning. When a new healer facerolls or your dps waste their burst on a PLD in the first 30s or a tank grabs 10 stacks, etc.

It's being obliterated that causes the salt. I've lost plenty of matches where it was a great fight of equal skill on both sides and lost fair and square where everyone put in all their effort and I've never had an issue with that or felt robbed.

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Originally Posted by FreeKingStefan

Trash talk happens in competition all the time. Tic-tac-toe is a solo game...so your comparison is terrible. Take a game of baseball, football, etc. for example. Play any moderately competitive sport, and if you are a detriment to your team, you WILL be reamed out...Or replaced.

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Fine, replace my game of tic-tac-toe example with anything else you said, and assume a high school gym coach is randomly assigning people to the teams. Everyone in the Feast knows how the system is setup, but some people insist on giving death threats to the kid with a bike helmet and coke goggles instead of accepting that this is just the way the world works. You win some and you lose some, you move up in the tiers and see less of those noobs, and at the end of the season the people most capable of picking up their teams slack while doing their own job (and maybe a little RNG luck with matchmaking) gets a prize.

As you touched on imperfect comparisons, teams members DO get replaced every single match in solo Q. Solo Q Feast IS NOT a team based event. Every single person on your own team is still an enemy in the big picture. I think this makes it much easier to justify losing your marbles on someone, hoping to berate them into never Q-ing again, only to find oneself in the exact same situation next match with a different person, until so many people have been pushed out of PvP that these individuals now find they themselves are the lowest denominator, and they start lashing at their betters because they can't cope with the reality that they lost a match, because their team deserved to lose.

It would be ideal if every person in the rated matches was there because they'd had sufficient time to study how their job works in PvP, the best times to burst, CC and retreat, and they were genuinely practiced and ready for competitive PvP. But that's not reality. Non-rated matches are dead queues, and SE hasn't done a pre-season since season 1. So ofc there's going to be a lot of people getting their feet wet for the first time in the rated season. This is the pre-season training grounds for people wanting to get into PvP for season 4.

Edit: All I wanted to do was defend Tic-Tac-Toe because I don't see solo Q as a team effort even though we work with other people for a common goal in 8 minutes bursts. There is no team mentality in it. Guess I got long winded on it :p
Pete Rose isn't being excluded from the Baseball Hall of Fame for being bad at baseball (gambling). Charlie Sheen didn't get dropped from Two and a Half Men for being a bad actor (drugs and trash talking the producer). Bill Clinton didn't get impeached over bad foreign policies or spending, it wasn't even for his affair. It was becaue he lied about it. People can be great at their jobs and their hobbies, but thin morale fiber is a bigger problem for the community than thin skin IMO.

My only complaint is that the PvP community is way too small to have this kind of behavior. It is embarrassing that we are discouraging PvE'rs and newcomers in at least trying PvP.
Ranked Feast I understand that everyone's blood is pumping because it is a leaderboard game and who hates losing. Be realistic: do we want to keep the PvP community small forever or do we want to expand? In the end it's still a game and we should not be here to discourage anyone from playing feast (or Frontlines) again because we lost or try to discourage them from ever PvPing again because of bad behavior - which there are countless threads/posts about these topics.
First impressions do matter and there is no reason to defend bad behavior.

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Originally Posted by Chevronone

This is only partly true. Losing sucks, But what is infuriating is losing without the slighest chance of winning ... It's being obliterated that causes the salt.

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Couldn't agree more.

Even if I lose a match because someone made a mistake, as long as it was a good match, then it's fine. I might do a face-palm for a moment, but I'm not gonna throw a fit over it. I only get salty if I start to feel like I'm being discriminated against by the matchmaking and dumb luck.

Lost one, more or less, even match? No big deal. Lost FIVE consecutive matches against the same platinum ranked healer when your team gets shafted with an unranked healer? No. Just no. At that point, it's hard to keep your calm, because you're basically being told by the game "don't bother playing." Getting a little salty at that point is kind of justified ... which shouldn't really surprise anyone, because it's not exclusive to PvP.

Go into any randomly formed PF group for savage or extreme raid/trial and you can see the same behavior. It only takes a couple of losses for that friendly pack of people to turn into a toxic cesspool of bile and venom, and the player with the least experience in the fight is typically the one who gets b!ched at the most, even if they weren't the one making mistakes.

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Originally Posted by Chevronone

I've lost plenty of matches where it was a great fight of equal skill on both sides and lost fair and square where everyone put in all their effort

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So much this! Those even matches are the best even if you lose, winning or losing because of facerolling is most boring thing that can ever happen in PvP.

I honestly think that there needs to be a requirement in order to Q for ranked play based on PvP rank so that total newbies can't queue up for ranked. New players should be funneled into Front Lines or 8v8 feast to learn and get their skills.

I log in matches as a healer and if i get one non constructive rude insult, i troll the match by not healing said person at all.

If they get extremely rude then since I always enter with another healer friend, we both refuse to heal until they kick one of us, the other leaves too and the game is ruined.

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Originally Posted by PrincessNuri

I log in matches as a healer and if i get one non constructive rude insult, i troll the match by not healing said person at all.

If they get extremely rude then since I always enter with another healer friend, we both refuse to heal until they kick one of us, the other leaves too and the game is ruined.

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You are worse than them, TBH. That one person insulting you might be causing you to have a bad time, but YOU just ruined the fun of everyone else in the match.

Ok why do you even queue.

Healers are not the only one that gets blame and criticise, cant tell you how many times im been blame as a tank. Funny thing is when I am literally doing all the things necessary to help us win and im literally playing at my peak for that game and we win, not even a single complement is rewarded. Players like to complain when they lose but say very little to nothing when they win. What a bunch of hypocrites pvpers are.

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Originally Posted by PrincessNuri

I log in matches as a healer and if i get one non constructive rude insult, i troll the match by not healing said person at all.

If they get extremely rude then since I always enter with another healer friend, we both refuse to heal until they kick one of us, the other leaves too and the game is ruined.

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This is a pretty stupid routine to pull considering you can get reported and suspended for doing this. You are better off not queuing and save everyone the grief tbh.

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Originally Posted by DamianFatale

I honestly could care less If it's ranked content, please stop being mean to new players!

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In my opinion, newbies deserve whatever is thrown at them when they queue into ranked content without knowing a single thing about how to PvP or the mode. You don't yet understand how frustrating and insulting it is to get a free loss because of dead weight players.

People with your mentality are selfish for wasting other people's time and energy by not queuing the many other modes that aren't ranked until their gameplay improves enough. If you really want to play competitive-ranked modes, learn how to play proper by practicing in Frontlines or 8v8 Feasts. Ranked PvP modes aren't learning grounds and the fact SE didn't gate them behind some requirement to ensure everyone queuing know what they are doing doesn't excuse that.

If you can't play your job and handle player backlash at your decision to queue ranked, don't queue ranked and go improve yourself in the other modes first. If that still doesn't sound logical to you, I don't know what to say. POTD or Sastasha still exist, no?

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Originally Posted by Petite

In my opinion, newbies deserve whatever is thrown at them when they queue into ranked content without knowing a single thing about how to PvP or the mode. You don't yet understand how frustrating and insulting it is to get a free loss because of dead weight players.
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Players still have a responsibility to behave in a acceptable way. Call people pit when they are playing badly can be fine especially if your willing to explain to them how they can be better, verbally abusing people is not acceptable and if you can't play without doing that you shouldn't play.

If you don't have a clue what you're doing, don't step in ranked mode where people are trying to climb. That much is common courtesy in any game you play. Would you show up to a wedding in a dirty old tracksuit while everyone is wearing tailor made 3 piece suits? Would you go into an interview for a job completely unprepared? No. Dont be silly. Put your best foot forward and people will treat you accordingly.

People trying to validate 8v8 as practice is unbelievable to me, that is no practice. You are learning nothing about PvP 8v8 and 4v4 are like night and day. Its liter 16 people running around like chickens with their heads cut off. The only way to learn 4v4 , is to play 4v4 , tough luck

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Originally Posted by Igneous

People trying to validate 8v8 as practice is unbelievable to me, that is no practice. You are learning nothing about PvP 8v8 and 4v4 are like night and day. Its liter 16 people running around like chickens with their heads cut off. The only way to learn 4v4 , is to play 4v4 , tough luck

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This is true for the most part. You can still use 8 v 8 to familiarize yourself with your job PVP abilities and the crates, limit break and heavy medal mechanics of feast but for the most part 8 v 8 is a pretty useless mode in terms of preparing you for 4 v 4. There should have been an unranked 4 v 4 mode but I guess SE is afraid of further dividing the PVP playerbase. Regardless there's too many players to hide behind to be able to effectively gauge how you would fare in the transition from 8 v 8 to 4 v 4 and the two modes play too differently with 4 v 4 putting more emphasis on individual performance.

The big problem with "Oh, go practice in Frontlines or 8v8" is that nobody ever even queues in those modes. Newbies to PVP have no choice but to step into ranked.

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Originally Posted by Avalon1101

Actually why don't you post this in general discussion with title "Be nice to everyone"

Edit: I don't think your point is feast, you just want to be treated nice although you mess up everything
So just say ppl should always be nice

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Way to escalate this from a 0 to a 9.

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Originally Posted by Urthdigger

The big problem with "Oh, go practice in Frontlines or 8v8" is that nobody ever even queues in those modes. Newbies to PVP have no choice but to step into ranked.

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People actually did used to play that crap mode (8 v 8), at least on primal, at the end of the last season when everyone was trying to sit on their points. There were time frames where the queues were as low as 5 minutes pretty much on a nightly basis after 8 pm eastern.

Can learn plenty from 8v8 as a tank can learn how to shut down dps, as a healer trying to survive against 4 dps will get you more than ready for 2 and as a dps going lone wolf and trying to figure out a burst to tear people apart, sure it's not the same but you still learn core parts to each role in a less stressful environment

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Originally Posted by Saru_Grey

do we want to keep the PvP community small forever or do we want to expand?

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Because of the way the reward system is designed, most of the community clearly wants to keep it small forever. Less players means less competition, which means higher probability of ranking. Which I'd assume is one of the reasons some people are so unnecessarily harsh and toxic in PvP. They know they can bully away potential competition and go unpunished for doing so.

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Originally Posted by MrPresident

Because of the way the reward system is designed, most of the community clearly wants to keep it small forever. Less players means less competition, which means higher probability of ranking. Which I'd assume is one of the reasons some people are so unnecessarily harsh and toxic in PvP. They know they can bully away potential competition and go unpunished for doing so.

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This is pretty funny lol. The people that are being "bullied" away are usually under performing. The ones who find themselves being constantly harassed or having vitriol thrown at them are almost always constantly under performing. So how exactly would they be competition?

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Originally Posted by Dimitrii

This is pretty funny lol. The people that are being "bullied" away are usually under performing. The ones who find themselves being constantly harassed or having vitriol thrown at them are almost always constantly under performing. So how exactly would they be competition?

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Not really. There's no rank requirement for being an asshole. And just because someone isn't going God mode in their first ever match, doesn't mean it's impossible they'd ever improve and move up the rankings.

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Originally Posted by MrPresident

Not really. There's no rank requirement for being an asshole. And just because someone isn't going God mode in their first ever match, doesn't mean it's impossible they'd ever improve and move up the rankings.

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What someone can be and what they are do not equate to the same thing.

It's entirely possible for under-preforming players to turn into seasoned vets, but until that moment they are nothing but a liability to their team and fodder to the enemy. No seasoned player looks at a rookie and sees competition. As long as that player is under-preforming, then they're either a stepping stone for rank boosting, or a dead weight for point decay. This is especially the case if the rookie is under-preforming by a large margin. If a player is pushing dps/healing numbers that would be considered embarrassing in even the easiest of PvE circumstances, then it's no surprise when the team turns on them. Some of the hate might be overly harsh, but no one improves by being babied in a competitive setting.

The bottom line is that there is no dead-carry in PvP. Almost every player at the top of the PvP mountain saw their fair share of hate along the way. If no one told them that they sucked when they preformed badly, or they just backed out and cried about it when someone was mean to them, then they would have never made it to where they are.

^ This post should probably be on the main gate leading into Wolves Den. Blunt truth, though rough to the touch, makes for an exceptional foundation to build upon.

Veterans players insulting noobs or under performing players is not the only toxic players we can encounter, i already see something like a completely new Melee not doing a lot of damage not cooperate with the other dps insulting an healer.
And when this happen it's maybe funny but not for the healer not deserving any insult from an under performing player.
But who care about insult and negative thinking ? it's a problem to give credits and focus on something like this, it will just get anybody to negative thinking too, care of this if it point a fail, but otherwise no...

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Originally Posted by Februs

This is especially the case if the rookie is under-preforming by a large margin.

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If a person is under-performing, especially by a large margin, that's the matchmaking at fault, not the rookie. The rookie did not ask to be put with players completely out of his league. It is entirely unfair and plainly put rotten to lash out at a person solely because he got put into the wrong match by an automated system, because by doing so, you're projecting your hate towards an inanimate object onto a living person. There is no defense to that. If you do it, you are an arsehole. Full stop.

And if you want to retort claiming that people should learn before stepping into ranked, you are not just an arsehole, but also an idiot. The very point of a ranking system is to rank people in accordance to their skill - no matter where that skill lies, whether you're at the bottom or the top of the barrel. Finding out where you stand, that is the point of letting yourself be ranked. Where exactly you stand has absolutely no bearing on that purpose and if a player is bad, it's the ranking that should tell them, not other players. That's its purpose after all.

And if you now think that the ranking system we have sucks for that purpose, you'd be right - it does. It needs to show everyone's standing and it needs to go into every direction - no more point loss protection at unranked. Moreover, the points you win/gain should solely be decided by your and the enemy teams rating, tiers should not matter at all. An even match should always result in an equal amount of points gained as lost. The system as is sucks and it sucks because they tied rewards to it, thereby giving it a distributional and incentive function as well, which compromise its actual purpose.

If you want to vent your hate, don't do it on the players, do it on the system.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

If a person is under-performing, especially by a large margin, that's the matchmaking at fault, not the rookie.

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Strictly speaking, you're not wrong. The matchmaking in this game is awful. I don't think anyone is going to argue against that, but unfortunately that system does not excuse a completely clueless player.

No matter how you look at it, SE designed PvP in this game as end-game content. You have to be at 60 to even participate, so that's not debatable. Between levels 1-60, there are 47 dungeons that a new player could, and should, have run multiple times before coming into Feast. On top of that, there are around 25 Trials (not including extreme content) and 30 raids (not including savage content). Any player who has climbed their way to 60 through all, or even most, of that content without at least learning the fundamentals of their job cannot hide behind the abysmal matchmaking as an excuse for their poor play. That kind of thing doesn't fly in PvE, and it doesn't fly here. Rookies might not ask to be put into matches with players far above them in skill, but they still chose to queue. At the very least, they should have taken the time to know what they're queuing for and not expect a dead-carry. That same attitude is applied to ANY and EVERY other end-game content this game has to offer, yet only in PvP is it considered unacceptable. Quite frankly, there's no defense to that.

There's also nothing idiotic about expecting a player to learn what they're getting into before jumping in. A pretty common term for this is, "Look before you leap." No one in their right mind joins a league or tournament for a sport that they have never played. In most circumstances, that kind of thing wouldn't even be allowed. We're forced to swallow it here because there's no qualifying or pre-season system, but that still doesn't excuse a player from being completely blind and deaf. SE does take the HUGE majority of blame because of their horrifying matchmaking and a wildly inaccurate ranking system, but there is still no defense for a player who preforms so badly that they wouldn't have even cleared a standard dungeon.

There's also no excuse for not getting any experience before hand. The resources available to new players are limited, yes; however, they do exist. 8v8 was queuing regularly until just recently, but even coming here on the forums to ask questions is better than nothing. Most of us would be happy to help if given the time. Sadly, an in-progress match is already too late. Again, there is no dead-carry in Feast, and even the most skilled of PvP'ers cannot help a rookie on the fly if they are falling so far below the benchmark that it's a wonder they even made it to lvl 60. Does every new player deserve the hate they get? Certainly not, but there is a limit to how pitiful a person can be before it becomes unacceptable and indefensible. Even a dog has the brains to defend itself when getting it's teeth kicked in. If expecting the same amount of common sense from a human is considered idiocy, then I'm ashamed to be a member of this species.

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Originally Posted by Alysanne

This thread wants to make me queue for a feast as a healer.

I would sup on your rage like a fine wine.

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There are some healers on primal who despite all the insults, profanity, and hate hurled towards them still retain positive, polite attitudes and continue to queue anyway. They never went away. I actually kind of respect that sort of persistence and attitude and even though I'm no better than alot of other players out there who occasionally lash out on new heals its gotten to the point that these specific heals I will no longer snap/b**ch at in losses anymore (two specific ones come to mind). Idk how they are able to retain such a positive attitude and outlook through all that but they are clearly better people than I personality wise and possess a pretty admirable trait in that regard.

This is beating an old horse to death, but we have got to find a way to make incentives for people to queue 8v8 -- or maybe make an unranked 4v4 with incentives to try. I absolutely can't blame newer players for lacking experience when the 8v8 queue doesn't pop and it's hard to find a group to do a custom match. Most of the new players I see getting a lot of hate in a match aren't completely clueless -- they're just clearly inexperienced... and the lack of experience shows. But how are they supposed to get experience without doing it!? Anyway, this sort of vitriol goes all the way down the ranking system. It doesn't matter where you're at. For example, I didn't get an early start on this season so I just recently crawled my way up to Bronze, and let me tell you... the hate people are spewing at each other even when they are Unranked is ridiculous. Fortunately, it's *somewhat* easy to carry a new dps at low ranks, but that doesn't stop my teammates from chewing them apart when they see the numbers at the end of the match. If we get a new healer, though... wooooow do people rage.

Really, though... I know we all get heated, but everyone needs to take a step back. We want PvP to be taken seriously. We want it to expand. Not everyone has a thick set of skin, and when you look at the options available to people, it's hard for them to get experience without actually doing it. So, if you are stuck in a match with someone who is less than ideal... you have two choices. You could either rage on them or you could try to give them advice. But, you're stuck with them either way. Maybe we could collectively add advice to a comprehensive guide and link it to any new player we come across. If new players are met with nothing but aggression from their fellow teammates, they're probably not going to want to deal with all the aggression while they get good. But if we offer them advice, maybe they'll try to learn. Maybe the community will expand. Maybe SE might put more effort into PvP in general. And, while this is just a theory, I have heard from people who say they really just don't want to PvP because they know they're not that good and people are really mean to them. Whether or not they have a thick set of skin, it's just not fun if people are yelling at you... even in unranked matches.

saint words, i agree

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Originally Posted by Claire_Pendragon

Way to escalate this from a 0 to a 9.

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No

What I saw was she just wanted ppl to be nice all the time even new/poor skilled ppl mess up things
And she met this in pvp so she posted this

But her point was still "Ppl should talk in a friendly way"
Which means if she had same experience in trails/raids/etc she would still post this, but in general discuss

Pvp is not her point(I mean the theme