why is castrum and praetorium not an instance

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

It's come up that often because it really is an important problem. The fact that it's been a major problem for a lot of people doesn't make it less important, it makes it more important.

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The fact that it's come up that often, and has yet to be fixed, clearly means that it's not as important to SE to fix it. I imagine it's way down their to-do list on QoL fixes.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

The fact that it's come up that often, and has yet to be fixed, clearly means that it's not as important to SE to fix it. I imagine it's way down their to-do list on QoL fixes.

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so tell me what should a new player get out of the meaning of the 1-50 journey seriously because the majority of newbies will miss these cut scenes some may not even get a chance to ever watch them. So to me se is basicly saying old content doesnt matter once we have new content. Which imo isnt a good way to bring more people to the game and esp if they have to start from level 1 to 70 with new exp coming out a quarter of that journey is pointless witout these cut scenes.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

Lots of words...

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Do you realize how few people would be running it if it offered no tomes? Are you really asking to dedicate hours of queue time for a few cut scenes?

edit: And it being a solo instance would make absolutely 0 sense if you actually care about the story.

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Originally Posted by joannaluttrell

Do you realize how few people would be running it if it offered no tomes? Are you really asking to dedicate hours of queue time for a few cut scenes?

edit: And it being a solo instance would make absolutely 0 sense if you actually care about the story.

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I was sayin you have about 18 other dugeons for tomes so yes I feel as tho it should be an instance sorry that I think the story is more important that tomes for gear, gear doesnt outweigh the whole basis of the game the msq to me but I guess it does for some people

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Originally Posted by joannaluttrell

Do you realize how few people would be running it if it offered no tomes? Are you really asking to dedicate hours of queue time for a few cut scenes?

edit: And it being a solo instance would make absolutely 0 sense if you actually care about the story.

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There would be no reason for people to run it if it was a solo instance , it would just be a solo thing which would be better so more people could see the story instead of going out of their way to see something they are entitled to see anyway

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

The fact that it's come up that often, and has yet to be fixed, clearly means that it's not as important to SE to fix it. I imagine it's way down their to-do list on QoL fixes.

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Pretty much sums up this whole thread. Castrum and Prae are dead content tied to the Main scenario roulette if people wish to run the instance with a quick q time. You'd be surprised how many sprouts actually speed run the dungeons nowadays. I had a sprout tank that wasn't new speed running the thing. I think you are looking into this too much. There is always youtube. If you made a legacy with your character then just imagine your character was there in the cutscenes or better yet just watch the cutscenes and pay the other players no mind if you are so concerned about story.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

so tell me what should a new player get out of the meaning of the 1-50 journey seriously because the majority of newbies will miss these cut scenes some may not even get a chance to ever watch them.

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But they can, it's called the Unending Journey, it's only been mentioned a few times in this very thread.

Maybe they'll miss that one cutscene where the lights go off in the Castrum, but I'm sure that won't completely ruin their experience of the 1-50 story.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

I was sayin you have about 18 other dugeons for tomes so yes I feel as tho it should be an instance sorry that I think the story is more important that tomes for gear, gear doesnt outweigh the whole basis of the game the msq to me but I guess it does for some people

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You're missing the point.

No incentive (tomes, in this case) = no players queueing for it.
No players queueing for it = newer players not getting into the dungeons.
Newer players not getting into the dungeons = they quit the game because the MSQ is required to get into the expansion content.

Doing this would force all new players to ask friends for help or use the party finder to even get a group to progress further through the story. Something that's currently just an option, and new players that aren't bothered by the Castrum/Prae mess can just get a quick run through the duty finder.

And since you care so much about the story, how much sense would it make for one single person to be besieging one of the most heavily fortified Garlean Castrums in Eorzea?
Sure, they could toss in some NPCs, but that'd still take resources away from what they should be doing, which is developing new content.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

There would be no reason for people to run it if it was a solo instance , it would just be a solo thing which would be better so more people could see the story instead of going out of their way to see something they are entitled to see anyway

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There would be no story to see because it would make no sense to be a solo instance.

[QUOTE=Nezerius;3922741]But they can, it's called the Unending Journey, it's only
Um one cut scene how bout the whole 1 to 50 journey ending cut scene , that actually saved the game and now is being treated like its nothing. There was no heavenward when the game bounced back there was this. So no its not just one cut scene and watching it in the journal is like watching highlights on sports center it is not at all the same. And new players are already asked to ask their friends thats what ive been told this whole thread. Im saying noone should have to do that and the only way to make that happen is if its a solo thing, if i recall u fight ur way through the whole walking sands escape and it was an instance with npcs. It can be done and right now if se knows players arent going to wait on others then they are creating an environment to not give two craps about their story. Teaching new players its not about the story that its about tomes and gear and thats just not why I play.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

Sure, they could toss in some NPCs, but that'd still take resources away from what they should be doing, which is developing new content.

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Hint: The Echo.

Turbine adapted LoTRO's group-based 'epic story' content after several years when new players were having huge problems getting through it .. there was no bribery available there unlike 'tomes bribery' here .. to provide for an OPTIONAL solo variant of that game's equivalent content, and in XIV The Echo already exists as a similar mechanic.

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Originally Posted by Pintsized

Hint: The Echo.

Turbine adapted LoTRO's group-based 'epic story' content after several years when new players were having huge problems getting through it .. there was no bribery available there unlike 'tomes bribery' here .. to provide for an OPTIONAL solo variant of that game's equivalent content, and in XIV The Echo already exists as a similar mechanic.

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Im just curious if other games go back and do any changes to older content , are is se just following what most games do , Im just of the opinion that all content matters whether its new or old because with new players always joining the game you should want to make the experience work for people from top to bottom

Well, WOW's dungeon content has been re-engineered where necessary to allow it to be soloed by over-leveled characters, in GW2 the only group instance in the main story' was given a soloable variant after a couple of years, FFXI's level syncs were removed to allow over-leveling.

They're the ones I can immediately think of.

BIG difference though, only the first FFXI expac was locked by having to complete the base game's story .. XIV of course gates basic character progression and all expansion content in that way. :( .. and only FFXI gated character progression (airships and one of two other QoL features) behind such content.

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Originally Posted by Pintsized

Hint: The Echo.

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Increased HP, damage and healing done is still gonna require the dungeons to be reworked to allow every job to solo it. Unless you mean the part of the Echo that allows the player to look into the past and watch the cutscenes through another party's eyes, which wouldn't make much sense.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

Um one cut scene how bout the whole 1 to 50 journey ending cut scene , that actually saved the game and now is being treated like its nothing. There was no heavenward when the game bounced back there was this. So no its not just one cut scene and watching it in the journal is like watching highlights on sports center it is not at all the same. And new players are already asked to ask their friends thats what ive been told this whole thread. Im saying noone should have to do that and the only way to make that happen is if its a solo thing, if i recall u fight ur way through the whole walking sands escape and it was an instance with npcs. It can be done and right now if se knows players arent going to wait on others then they are creating an environment to not give two craps about their story. Teaching new players its not about the story that its about tomes and gear and thats just not why I play.

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Do you have trouble reading posts, or are you just purposefully ignoring parts of mine?

If you remove the incentive for people to queue for these two dungeons, you'll be forcing new players into asking their friends for help, or setting up a party finder entry. Currently this is an option for people who want to ensure they get to see all the cutscenes and also experience all the fights. Not all the new players care about the story, and aren't bothered about a speed run through the duty finder.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

Increased HP, damage and healing done is still gonna require the dungeons to be reworked to allow every job to solo it.

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Not at all, Turbine only had a very small handful of mechanic changes to any of the LoTRO 'epic story' dungeons, which are in no way simpler mechanic-wise than XIV's, they added an item that you 'use' to apply boosts entirely equivalent to 'Echo'.

Let's face it, that's EXACTLY what XIV does in the forced-solo instances after you fail them once, SE recognised they had to do that back in beta (or was it even further back in V1, I don't recall now) otherwise many players would never get beyond level 5 in their class progression!

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Originally Posted by Pintsized

Not at all, Turbine only had a very small handful of mechanic changes to any of the LoTRO 'epic story' dungeons, which are in no way simpler mechanic-wise than XIV's, they added an item that you 'use' to apply boosts entirely equivalent to 'Echo'.

Let's face it, that's EXACTLY what XIV does in the forced-solo instances after you fail them once, SE recognised they had to do that back in beta (or was it even further back in V1, I don't recall now) otherwise many players would never get beyond level 5 in their class progression!

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But this isn't LotRO, this is XIV. Not every job has a reliable selfheal that will get them through every fight. Can you explain how those jobs would get through CM/Prae solo? Can you explain how a job like that can solo bosses like Gaius, Livia, or even Ultima? Unless you mean increasing the Echo up to like +1000% damage/HP so they can kill things in just a few hits, but then what'd be the point?

Sure, you could throw in an NPC party to help, but who would that be? It can't be the Scions, since they're already busy taking out other Castrums with their respective city-states/grand companies, nor can it be Thancred, for obvious reasons. It can't be the Grand Company army that's helping you by distracting Castrum's main force, either. Perhaps a few random miners from the nearby Ceruleum Plant? Surely they're battle-hardened fighters and healers!

Solo would absolutely make no sense, lore wise, since this is one of the most guarded Castrums in Eorzea.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

Im just curious if other games go back and do any changes to older content , are is se just following what most games do, Im just of the opinion that all content matters whether its new or old because with new players always joining the game you should want to make the experience work for people from top to bottom

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I've never heard of a game company refusing to fix content from the main game when it's as badly broken as this is. (Perhaps it could happen with a minor optional piece of an old expac, but certainly not when it's the final climax of the base game.) And SE themselves does go back and update older content here in this game. Of course that's usually with minor tweaks rather than a significant overhaul like this would turn into, but that's mainly because that's generally all older content needs. Here it isn't.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

Sure, you could throw in an NPC party to help, but who would that be? ... It can't be the Grand Company army that's helping you by distracting Castrum's main force, either.

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It can't be the main unit of the GC's armies which is busy elsewhere, but a few members who are already assigned to fight under our leadership, that would work. And SE has already said they're planning on allowing our squadron to fight alongside us in dungeons. They haven't revealed yet which dungeons, but I'm hoping these two are the first to be implemented for the feature, as they're certainly the ones that most need it.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

I've never heard of a game company refusing to fix

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I,m noticing the trend , as I talk to a lot of new players what its doing is creating an environment to not appreciate the story. Where skipping a cut scene and prob not even going back and watching it is becoming the norm , and I would like to think that at least half the players came for the story. I really don't think that It would be to difficult to implement a new way to do these two dungeons at all.