Should Dancer branch off Rogue/Thief or Pugilist?

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Originally Posted by ErdrickLoto

Which would still be better than being executed because you're practicing fighting, to rise against the Garleans.

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My point was that it's hard to practice anything when your two states of living are:
1. Manual labor
2. Beatings

It's a neat idea, don't get me wrong. Just a bit flimsy.

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Originally Posted by SessionZero

Somehow I doubt the Garleans would see people dancing and be like, "Oh, let those crazy kids have their fun." Based on what we've seen, I would assume it's more akin to, "What are you dogs doing dancing instead of working, back to the mines!" followed by beatings and weeping and gnashing of teeth, so on and so forth.

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Do we have reason to assume the Garleans treat the Ala Mhigans like this? In the introductory Garlean cutscene in 2.0, Nero asks where two of the soldiers are from, and one says Ala Mhigo. Now of course he was a spy and killed on the spot, but it clearly indicates Ala Mhigans are allowed to be in the Garlean military, at least. I never got the impression Garlemald was so super evil that they literally enslaved every individual person, but it's possible I missed it.

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Originally Posted by SessionZero

My point was that it's hard to practice anything when your two states of living are:
1. Manual labor
2. Beatings

It's a neat idea, don't get me wrong. Just a bit flimsy.

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Eh, I'd be surprised if they didn't get any down time (or, perhaps more likely, some people snuck off anyways).

Though even if that, specifically, is flimsy, there's plenty of other reasons to incorporate dancer as a job next expansion, rather than believing that there's no way at all that they're getting in.

Regarding the actual topic of the thread... DNC might have rogue or pugilist skills as a cross-class option, but a snowball has a better chance in Ul'dah than the chance that it would actually branch off from it.

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Originally Posted by Talraen

Do we have reason to assume the Garleans treat the Ala Mhigans like this? In the introductory Garlean cutscene in 2.0, Nero asks where two of the soldiers are from, and one says Ala Mhigo. Now of course he was a spy and killed on the spot, but it clearly indicates Ala Mhigans are allowed to be in the Garlean military, at least. I never got the impression Garlemald was so super evil that they literally enslaved every individual person, but it's possible I missed it.

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My assumption is that any nation conquered by Garlemald has two options for its citizens: assimilate or suffer. Garlemald's military is largely comprised of conscripted recruits from other nations that the Garleans have conquered, and in the 3.4 MSQ: (see inside spoiler tag)

the Griffin specifically says that the people they left behind in Ala Mhigo are subject to beatings and manual labor. It's entirely possible he was being hyperbolic but it's not outside the realm of possibility given how mustache-twirlingly evil Garleans tend to come off.

Honestly, I think Dancer will be in the new expac, though I don't think the woman in red in the trailer is a dancer herself. I just think, in my own personal opinion, that there's less convoluted ways to introduce dancer.

i would love it to be a dancer. But i am sure it's not. I think a lotta folks will be disappointed. I mean to me, its obvious derplander is a monk sparring a monk...the last expansion he was a dragoon with a dragoon.

Plus, she is doing perfect moves that are synonymous to the Tibetan monks (me spending a year with Tibetan monks as part of my masters degree I can pretty much see this. clearly). So ....unless the FFXIV dancer job now employs Tibetan monk moves....that's a monk.

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Originally Posted by Kurogaea

I wouldn't mind it. I think Dancer would meld right in with a dagger wielding class. Or like twin ring weapons, not sure what they're called but yeah.

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You're thinking of Chakrams :D

Even if branching Jobs were a thing, having Dancer branch of Rogue would be terrible. It would have the same DPS combo (Aeolian Edge), the same debuff combo (Dancing Edge), and the same DoT combo (Shadow Fang), so its core playstyle wouldn't even be different. On top of that, you'd get nearly all the benefits of the base class (Goad, Trick) without having to bring another NIN, so comps would most likely have NIN-DNC reserved by default (even more so if DNC were to come with its own party support buffs).

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Originally Posted by SessionZero

My point was that it's hard to practice anything when your two states of living are:
1. Manual labor
2. Beatings

It's a neat idea, don't get me wrong. Just a bit flimsy.

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I seriously doubt that the Garleans treat their conquered nations in this manner unless the people of those nations are constantly and determinedly belligerent. It takes WAY more manpower to go all Big Brother on a nation than it does to pretty much tell them, "Okay, keep on doing what you all were doing - but understand that we are now in charge. If we say jump, you jump. If you try to rebel, we come down on you like a ton of bricks."

We know that Garleans regularly conscript citizens of conquered nations to use in their armies, but we don't have anything to support the theory that they systematically oppress those nations. In fact, we have evidence to the contrary: one of the plot points brought up late in the 3.4 MSQs is that the new generation of Ala Mihgans might be resistant to Garlean liberation as they grew up under Garlean rule. It seems to me that if Ala Mihgo was a giant concentration camp, even the new kids would want to lash out against their oppressors.

Another reason that this will most likely be the case, with Garleans mostly leaving the Ala Mihgans to their own devices, is that it will be a whole lot easier to justify the Warrior of Light striding down main street in full armor. If Ala Mihgo is packed full of soldiers like a Castrum and they all ignore the WoL, that would be pretty silly - and I definitely get the impression that the city is likely going to be a "safe home", like Ishgard or any of the other main cities.

tl;dr, it is very unlikely that the Garleans have forbidden fun in Ala Mihgo, or that they have them all chained up and breaking rocks like slaves. It is far more likely that after the occupation, life goes on for the Ala Mihgans, and they all pretty much do the same kind of things they did before the occupation. Signs of rebellion would be greeted with harsh punishments, but in the long run Garlemand wants the people of Ala Mihgo to become good Garlean citizens. That will not happen if they are constantly crushing them under heel.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Another reason that this will most likely be the case, with Garleans mostly leaving the Ala Mihgans to their own devices, is that it will be a whole lot easier to justify the Warrior of Light striding down main street in full armor. If Ala Mihgo is packed full of soldiers like a Castrum and they all ignore the WoL, that would be pretty silly - and I definitely get the impression that the city is likely going to be a "safe home", like Ishgard or any of the other main cities.

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But we're not going to Ala Mhigo. We're going to Rhalgr's Reach. We might liberate and re-occupy Ala Mhigo later on, but at the onset of 4.0 we'll be working to liberate the city from Garlean occupation.

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Originally Posted by SessionZero

But we're not going to Ala Mhigo. We're going to Rhalgr's Reach. We might liberate and re-occupy Ala Mhigo later on, but at the onset of 4.0 we'll be working to liberate the city from Garlean occupation.

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Regardless, my other points still stand. It doesn't make sense for Garlemand to oppress Ala Mihgo when it takes far less resources simply to govern them. The citizens will be allowed to participate in entertainment (hence Dancer will be a viable way to hide combat training). It will not be a nation-wide chain gang.

As was implied by the cutscenes I mentioned, I predict that part of the challenge of liberating Ala Mihgo will be in convincing the youth of the nation that it even NEEDS to be liberated - something that wouldn't be the case if said youth were treated as slaves.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

As was implied by the cutscenes I mentioned, I predict that part of the challenge of liberating Ala Mihgo will be in convincing the youth of the nation that it even NEEDS to be liberated - something that wouldn't be the case if said youth were treated as slaves.

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What you say is entirely possible. What I say is also entirely possible. Or it could be a combination of both. The Garleans could be raising the latest generation of Ala Mhigan youth to be pro-Garlemald while systematically oppressing those who were alive before the occupation to show the youths how those who defy the Empire live, while showering those who pledge loyalty with luxuries and benefits. It's not exactly something that's unheard of even in our own history.

Everything is speculation until we see it for certain.

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Originally Posted by FeliAiko

Even if branching Jobs were a thing, having Dancer branch of Rogue would be terrible. It would have the same DPS combo (Aeolian Edge), the same debuff combo (Dancing Edge), and the same DoT combo (Shadow Fang), so its core playstyle wouldn't even be different. On top of that, you'd get nearly all the benefits of the base class (Goad, Trick) without having to bring another NIN, so comps would most likely have NIN-DNC reserved by default (even more so if DNC were to come with its own party support buffs).

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I do believe that a dancer wouldn't be able to use trick attack on bosses, since you can't normally use it while aggroed because you can't hide.

And a dancer wouldn't get ninjitsu for suiton from branching off rogue.

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Originally Posted by lulunami

Would it not make more sense for Dancer to share abilities with Ninja instead of Monk? That is assuming Dancer is even sharing a class with another job. Dancers can use a similar weapon to Ninja since Dancer typically uses knives/daggers as a weapon.

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I vote none...it should be a stand alone job using main-gauches, and start at lvl 1. Give nin access to katanas only, the same way they removed daggers from PLD weapon access and left them with swords only.

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Originally Posted by TaranTatsuuchi

I do believe that a dancer wouldn't be able to use trick attack on bosses, since you can't normally use it while aggroed because you can't hide.

And a dancer wouldn't get ninjitsu for suiton from branching off rogue.

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Oh yeah, good point about Trick. Hadn't considered that.