The story with the WoDs was rushed. WoDs were introduced in 3.1 and ended in 3.4. We were led to assume these will be our antagonists for a long period and they gonna bug us for some time. Instead we got rid of them so soon. Their story was ok Lore wise but storytale wise it was rushed. Although it makes sense they wouldn't fit with the Garlean theme and affairs coming in 4.0. They got rid of them to focus on Ala Mhigo and the Garleans. That being said SE didn't lost me in this patch. This patch was brilliant. It gave so much info and revealed so many things. It was pure Loregasm. I just didn't like how soon WoDs ended. We had no character development on those. It was rushed.
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10-03-2016, 06:08 PMRiardon
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10-03-2016, 06:15 PMReynhartAs I said, you can't reveal that they're not that bad if you give them more and more situations where they're real antagonists. The Alisaie part is a bit weird, but before that, they actually didn't really do anything "bad".Quote:
Originally Posted by Riardon
It reminds me of another story (Spoilers for Bravely Default below)
After fighting Eternia for a long time, you learn that they're technicaly the good guys when compared to the orthodoxy. But it's really hard to admit, considering some of their high rank officiers actually burned innocent cities, sacrificed their own troops with chemical weapons, and abducted little children to make them slaves working as miners -
10-03-2016, 06:20 PMFelisQuote:
Originally Posted by ElieDavion
There are 2 Elezen in the 1.0 opening, male (at the table with the Miqo'te) and female (with the Roegadyn and Lalafell in Mor Dhonna).Quote:
Originally Posted by Aronys
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCi1F1OvFSo -
10-03-2016, 09:46 PMsilentwindfrMinfilia was never part of the teleport spell of y'shtola, and she did answer Hydaelin calling if you remember, how she did get there, it's not explaind and it's not needed. and it's more about saying that balance is needed, too much light is as much bad than too much darkness.Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicKirby
about the Warrior of Darkness act, they are desperate and heroes don't always do the right thing, time to time they must dirty themself for reach them goal. do i must remember you how many people our character did kill soo far? we are the biggest mass murder of eorzea.
want an example? kobold story, they had an agreement with limsa lominsa saying that they was the one having the control of the land.... but what they have done after the 7e catalysm? invade and slaughter kobold... leaving them with only them capital as place.... worst the place is always surrounded by troops of limsa lominsa. and what we do? we do help to slay more and more and more of them....
yeah the beastman did call them primal, but why they have done it? that important to know why....
the sylph, because the empire did invade them forest, in the V1 we had even to help to evacuate sylph cocoon from them forest part out of imperial reach. they was left alone to fend themself against castrum oriens, when them magic is mainly illusion.... great call.
sahuagin.... they need beach and some land for lay them egg.... what did the pirate of limsa lominsa have done? kill children and destroy every egg they did seen.
amalja and uldah are at war for ages mainly because uldah did take by force some part of the thanalan for them mine (and i will not talk of the corruption and how they threat the refugies of ala miggho, they here for 20 years and are still treated like shit.... seriously?)
you can go on like this.... no one is pure or heroic actually.... heroes are heroes because people call them like this, not because they are pure and perfect being that never get them hand dirty. the truth is often heroes are assassin or mass murderer that are simply in the camp of the victorious.
the action of the warrior of darkness are not that senseless.... between let them whole people disappear into nothingness.... they did decide to try to make them fuse with our dimension. it look crazy, but with the cycle of reincarnation in place it give them hope that them people will revive sooner or later. they are beyond desesperate.... and desesperate people must take hard decision that will not always be morale for save the greater number. is that fair? or normal? maybe no, but that how it work.
everything soo far have a multitude of degree of lecture.... you can simply look the story happening under your eyes or look at the whole picture and see that FF14 world is not full of light and darkness, is more a world of grey where it's hard to know what is good or bad anymore. maybe hydaelin is not good, maybe zordiarch is not bad.... they are simply part of two opposing power that are fighting over our world.... if one of them win, it will not be nice for us. it's sad, but the only way for us to survive is to maintain balance between light and darkness. that kinda what they was saying in this arc. that we are not bound to the light, but bound to our world and that we must do our own decision and see for ourself if the light and darkness are soo evil and good than we think.
don't get me wrong, i don't say that ascian are angel, they are as bad as can be the warrior of darkness (that are technically warrior of light like us) simply that too much light or darkness will destroy our world not save it. -
10-03-2016, 09:56 PMExKageKoji Fox disagrees.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aronys
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fernehalwes
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10-03-2016, 11:53 PMKaurieReally? In my opinion, the Warriors of Darkness story line has been the best story arc so far. The parallel to us is great and helps us to relate to their plight. It's very believable that people would do horrendous things to save their entire world, all of their friends and family, from complete destruction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teraluna
The stuff before with mysterious hooded villains from shadows, betrayal and battling the dragons seems like a story from a Saturday morning cartoon. I enjoyed 2.4-3.0, but 3.1-3.3 was blegh, now 3.4 was great again. -
10-04-2016, 12:02 AMSessionZeroI would imagine their desperation to save everyone they fought so hard to protect on their own world is what makes them so willing to slaughter people in our own world. They're not here to protect us, they're here to ensure our world saves theirs. We're cattle to them, a means to an end. Also, the fact that they literally died to come to our world and still operate with the knowledge that every moment they're faffing about in our world brings their own one step closer to oblivion... I would think that could drive even the most strong-willed among us completely bonkers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teraluna
This is just my interpretation, but I think the Ranger's "glee" is a misinterpretation on many people's parts. She sees Alphinaud and Alisaie and the WoL as an impediment to saving her world. She's not "glad" necessarily that she gets to riddle the wonder twins with arrows. It's just what needs to be done, and dammit, she's going to do it, for the benefit of her own world. -
10-04-2016, 12:53 AMAlleo
I am not really sure why people suddenly think that the WoL in the trailers is the WoD? Other than the CGI trailers (and the one with the wrong dragon was a mistake by Yoshida) which looks a bit different, all the other trailers are always showing one WoL who is in the exact position as our character is when we play through it. The end of a era trailer is a little bit different since he shows a whole group of adventurers, but maybe they just split up after all that happened? Maybe its a little symbolic, maybe they wanted to use the party in the game, but I am not convinced that the WoD had anything to do with the 1.0 WoL's.
I am also not sure if the world of the WoD is a true parallel world to our own. I mean if that is the case wouldnt it be even worse that they shot down Alisea, nearly killed Y'sthola and more? They would have known these people in their own world, but they showed no signs that they are standing before look-alike's of their own friends. I mean the archer even mistook Alphinaud for his sister. I just cant imagine that they are that desperate/cold/ or good actors that they would not react by seeing those people again.
We do know that Hydaelyn was/is really weak since she is loosing for quite the time. It was quite implied that she, like Zodiark cant do much on herself, other than maybe shielding people in danger, and that she needs others to do it for her. But since she was so weak that she even had to use Minfilia as her Word she could not do anything to the other world. As soon as she got more power from 6 crystals of Light she sends Minfilia with them to stop their world from dying. The WoD was just angry at her because she did nothing but sadly she was in no position to even help. She clearly loves her children but is not free of mistakes. Its not really her fault that the WoD did a great job and thus creating a imbalance. They even said that it was the people that called for help (like they do with us) and that they just defeated any bad guy/evil thing that they found.
Minifila was part of the teleportation spell, thats why she ran back into the tunnels. She used it to get to the aetheric realm and after not hearing Hydaelyns voice, she wished for help.
You know I can understand the WoD to some extend but at the very same time I dont. Yes they are desperate, saw everything they worked for on the brink of destruction, but they should know how the Ascians are..If they are truly our counterpart they should have known that there always might be another way to resolve things and maybe get it done withouth mass killing people of another world or even going so far and trying to kill the only hope left, us the WoL..I mean if the original world fails and Hydaelyn dies than all will fall into a void..so they would have solved nothing. Maybe I would feel more about them if they first tried to talk to us instead of trying to kill us as soon as the knew who we were..
And I also see quite difference between having to choose the lesser evil and kill some innocent people to save more people but hating every second of it, or enjoying it. And the bard and paladin really did look like they enjoy it..
We as the WoL might have to kill too but we mostly do it out of self-defense. And lets not forget that there is a difference between gameplay and story. We do not go around and kill x amount of wildlife for x amount of skin. We dont run dungeons x times or go into Galearn territory and mass murder everyone there every second day. Thats just something we do because its still a game.
We do fight and kill in the story thats true but I do believe that our body count is not that high.
The situation with the beastman is also not that black and white. True Limsa started it again and the kobolds only tried to help themselves, but we dont go around and kill kobolds without any reason. We even trust a small kobold child and save his life and we only attack the kobolds if they are trying to summon titan again which is bad for the people but also Hydaelyn herself.
The sahagin did loose some of their breeding grounds for their eggs thanks to the catastrophe and are going further onto Limsa's land to have a chance for survival, but it was not Limsas fault that they lost their first grounds. And please lets not forget that we learn that the first sahagin pirate did go around and killed people...and that as a revenge got nearly all of his eggs killed.
So yeah I agree the city states are not without fault, but the beastman are also not innocent. Neither deserves to be killed by the other side. But we as the WoL really try our best to help them both. We take care of the primal problem and at the same time we befriend the parts of the tribe that wants peace and help them out too. I mean most of the beast man that we kill are done while doing the beastman quests. But our WoL has never really showed delight in killing an enemy. And this is the problem that I have with the WoD.
And so in the end I wish that they had not rushed that story part and gave us more of a chance to learn about the WoD and their world (Echo power ftw). -
10-04-2016, 01:15 AMKnahli
While adding my own voice to the group that feel their plotline was very rushed, what got to me the most was not that they did arguably evil things in a desperate attempt to save their planet - that I can accept and appreciate - but rather that NOTHING about them in earlier patches showed any hint of them having any decency to begin with. They were cocky and had an attitude about themselves. They had no respect or hope in the WoL and that they might be able to help them instead of relying on Ascians of all people. Instead we get a miqo'te who is a total B word that taunts characters about how she was sure they should have died from her arrow and proceeds to show no remorse when she realises she presumably murdered a twin sibling.... all while intending to offer the same fate to Alphinaud. Oh, and wasn't she looking rather disappointed when she was told not to attack? Some hero she was. Her and her little allies who all happily abided her attitude.
Desperation turning good people bad is a cool concept I can definitely get on board with, but the WoD were anything but heroes to me. It makes no sense that you can just flip a switch like that and take glee in murdering innocent people. If she wanted her world back, it was for her own gain, not anyone else's. -
10-04-2016, 01:20 AMSessionZeroI think an important distinction can be made between working with Ascians in general and working with Elidibus. It's been made quite apparent that Elidibus is something of an enigma and has been shown before to have conflicting interests with his brethren. For all we know, Elidibus is the only one working towards a true balanced reunification of the reflections, as opposed to the Ascian's supposed general plan of "darkness for everyone."Quote:
Originally Posted by Knahli
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10-04-2016, 01:29 AMTheodric
Eh, personally I found it very refreshing that the Warriors of Darkness had contempt towards the Scions and Warrior of Light. I've grown increasingly tired of all the hero worship surrounding the main cast though - especially since they're rarely in any real danger and we've suffered countless 'fake outs' ever since the end of 2.0 where death and injury is concerned. Yes, we lost Haurchefant and Ysayle back in 3.0 but even then they were secondary characters and it's crystal clear that the main Scions and City State leaders have firm plot armour to shield them from genuine and long lasting physical and political consequences. I wonder how many more times we'll be teased with the likes of Aymeric maybe dying but never really being in danger?
It rubs me the wrong way because it means that any new characters who are introduced to keep things fresh - such as Moenbryda or the Warriors of Darkness - end up being the ones to be killed off. Usually very abruptly too. I'll be honest and say that a lot of the major characters in this game bore me though. I'm not very fond of the likes of Cid or Aymeric. They're far too self righteous and without any real, meaningful flaws. I prefer characters with more depth and complexity to them - the sort of characters who screw up from time to time or can actually be selfish.
That's why Ysayle and the Warriors of Darkness worked for me. They screwed up, they had flaws but they weren't completely rotten and believed that their causes were just. I do wish more characters with flaws stuck around though.
Overall though the storytelling is still a lot better than what other MMO's offer. Hopefully 4.0 isn't afraid to go above and beyond 2.0 and 3.0. The developers do appear to take constructive feedback on board after all. -
10-04-2016, 01:36 AMAlexionSkylark
While I did expect the WoD arc to have stretched a bit more, I won't say SE lost me, or that I didn't like the story. It gave answers to lots of questions (was Urianger betraying us? What will become of Minfilia? Just who actually is the Warrior of Darkness?), and it provided us with some very thoughtful questioning, mainly: "So, are they a reflection of our own future? Is our world doomed to mimic their destiny if we keep threading this path we are in?"
Not to mention it really looked like a very subtle, but yet very important addition to the FFXIV universe. THERE ARE OTHER PLANETS IN THE GAME'S UNIVERSE, and even more, THE ASCIANS HAVE ACCESS TO THEM. This is HUGE. This opens up to LIMITLESS potential new storylines for future expansions, who can say that we won't travel to the WoD's world in the future, or even to the OTHER unmentioned worlds? Suddenly a whole universe opened up before us, and this is the best thing that could have happened. -
10-04-2016, 01:47 AMKnahliThat's adopting a very omniscient point of view from the narrative though. I cannot recall any single instance that has given anyone reason to believe that Elidibus is something deserving of any more trust than any other Ascian. They are deceptive by nature and the WoL/D should know that better than anyone else. I'm not suggesting it's bad that desperation saw them cave to such lows, but that they'd sooner trust an Ascian over another world's WoL who they should have almost everything in common with? They said it themselves that 'you' should know better than anyone what it would possibly feel like to have fate reward you so cruelly, yet instead of stating their intentions they just act like irrational, antagonistic ***holes. Not even so much as a "We're going to do this. We don't care if you dislike it. Either accept it and get out of our way, or we will make you".Quote:
Originally Posted by SessionZero
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10-04-2016, 01:56 AMSessionZeroI mean, I don't know about you, but if I gave my very life to travel to another world in order to pull my own back from the brink of destruction, and some jerk and his jerky friends kept messing with my stuff and thwarting my world's salvation at every turn, I'd be fairly pissed off and antagonistic towards them as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knahli
Edited to add: We also have no idea what sorts of words or deeds were exchanged between Elidibus and the Warriors of Darkness. He could have revealed something huge to them that could make even us go "Oh, okay that makes sense, yeah let's do this." The only person with a foot in both camps and who seems to really know wtf is going on is Urianger, and he doesn't seem forthcoming with any really relevant info. -
10-04-2016, 02:04 AMwhiteblade89
Honestly, I feel like this was the first time that SE actually added the right sort of complexity to the main story. I love stories where characters are morally grey or where they face impossible decisions. The Witcher 3 for example, every choice you make is fairly grey. What you do pleases one party, but could potentially doom another. No one gets out unscathed. My biggest qualms with FFXIV main story is what someone mentioned above: there's no middle ground between good and bad. You're the Warrior of Light and the Scions, and you're always good, no matter what. 3.4 finally made me question whether I was doing the right thing or not. And it finally made the comparison between light and dark. Too much of either is disastrous, so there needs to be balance between the two. I hope SE does more of this in the future. I want to feel like im playing a complex character, rather than a silent shell who is just there to do everything for everyone.
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10-04-2016, 02:12 AMAlleo
@Knahli: That is exactly my problem that I have with the WoD. All the time they are shown as villains. Yes their world is on brink of destruction and its horrible, but at the same time they should know how important the WoL is for balance. If the world loses its WoL its seems that it might end really bad and since this is the original world this would be bad for all the other worlds too.
@SessionZero: The problem is that they already tried to kill us the first time that we meet them. I could understand that they would have been angry/pissed at us if they just talked to us, tried to find a way and we would have been a complete jerk about it but we never got the chance to talk. The paladin tried to murder Y'shtola and the warrior tried to kill us while we were still under the effect of the echo. Than they shoot Alisea and without Thancred she would have been death and after that are taunting about it.
So all the time they were taunting guys that attacked us instantly and suddenly they looked down and are all teary eyed..Maybe if SE showed us some cutscenes with the WoD's alone and talking about it. Maybe showing their regret of having to fight us..anything like that would have helped to paint them better. But it was: Enemy -> villain -> misunderstood good guy..Just one more patch with fleshing them out. Maybe they could have used this patch to show them in a better light at the end and use the next one to make them more like rivals/friends to our WoL.
They dont have to worship us, but at least show a little respect..I mean we are one WoL having to shoulder not only the safety of our own world but the whole existence itself.. -
10-04-2016, 02:55 AMMikaIto
I felt the "twist" with the warriors of darkness was kinda cheap and unfair the grins that roe makes and pure joy they seem to have in besting us makes there development to actually being too good for there own good make no sense at all even subtle hints like making them look sad doing what they did would have been a 100x better then being lied too until the story demanded there plot change. Story has been great but this one kinda took a cheap shot and left a sour taste especially with the nidhog eyes thing as well virtually erasing a good chunk of what we did even if our character made the worst decision ever throwing them off a cliff.
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10-04-2016, 04:40 AMTeralunaYes, the WoD behaviour just didn't seem to accurately portray their back story. Protectors of the people on their world, now grinning when slaughtering innocents...Quote:
Originally Posted by MikaIto
But the bigger contradiction and fudging for me was with the Hydaelyn bit. A benevolent protector (think ending scene of Ultimate Weapon), who by the way is going to wipe out all living things for eternity. But no! Somehow realizing that wiping all living things out for eternity isn't good for morale, this is changed in an instant to not wiping all living things out for eternity. Oh, and you can have this possessed ex-Scion leader who fell into my grasp to sort out my penchant for obliterating your world. There you go, aren't I good? -
10-04-2016, 05:47 AMDualgunnerSo...the Old Testament Hydaelan finally ended and we're in the new testament? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Teraluna
I think the WoD were removed from the story too quickly. They were portrayed as psychotic villains, at least the Knight and Ranger were, and given a sympathetic background. Then they were whisked away from the plot. They are supposed to be our equal/opposite, the yang to our yin or whatever, they're not supposed to be throwaway like that. Even if they didn't fit the theme of a garlean expansion...who knows maybe they would have?
Like Alleo said, they could have developed into rivals/friends for us. Someone to watch our back in canon against the shit we deal with, someone to go "Ok seriously what does Ul'Dahn politics have to do with killing Ifrit who's burning down Little Ala Mhigo, come on you're better than this." or "I'm watching you. I have your back but the moment you take a wrong step I'm taking over, and we're saving the world my way."
Just...so much opportunity lost. So much possible development between us and people who not only understand what its like to have echo *but also understand what its like to have a world's fate on your shoulders*. Even as rivals or enemies, it would be a nice consistent foe to have. -
10-04-2016, 06:48 AMZohar_LaharI didn't really get the impression they were going to be any more long-term than Lahabrea or Gaius van Baelsar. At the very least, I figured they'd have some role in the transition to 4.0, and they did exactly that: bridge the Heavensward story arc with the plot of 4.0.Quote:
Originally Posted by Riardon
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10-04-2016, 02:27 PMEdwinLiQuote:
Originally Posted by Dualgunner
I think their dark personality is part of the point about them being forced into the role of Heroes. The WoD admitted that they themselves are not Heroes willingly but that "Title" and responsibilty was forced on to them. They were just normal adventurers making a living doing what adventurers do either out of greed, personal reasons, seeking fame, thrill of the battles and killing things, and/or etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knahli
They were never Hero material to begin with but due to accomplishing many tasks that involved stopping "Evil" people out of the desire for personal gain the populous just slapped it on to them. The personality we see is probably how they normally behave and the populous never got to really know them because all they know about the WoD is their accomplishments over "Evil".
heck their personality represent how the Player characters really are by nature as Adventurers. We are very kill happy people and always expect a reward for accomplishing a task no matter how small it is.
Do we even care for most people our character kills? No we do not as we know nothing about them and only see them as another thing to kill just to get the task given to us done and the only time we actually care is if the game force us to get to know them through dialogue and cutscenes.
That is what the Scions were to the WoD, people they never met and are just another NPC they don't know who they are to kill so they can get their task finished just like how we the Players happily kill characters we don't know every day in the game. -
10-04-2016, 02:36 PMTheodricIt's also a trait that 'our' the Warrior of Light displays. They're not a particular nice person either as the DRK quests show when dealing with inner thoughts and desires. They don't necessarily want to run all over Eorzea solving everybody else's problems either - and honestly there isn't really anything healthy about that anyway since the people of Eorzea shouldn't be relying upon the Warrior of Light. For dealing with threats such as Primals, certainly, but not political problems or menial issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwinLi
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10-04-2016, 02:42 PMKnahliBut that's the thing, we never actually messed with their agenda in the first place. We just showed up and they decided to attack us to "show" us who they were as if it was it would be a fun little game. If anything, we would have helped them. They could have abused our strength and goals at least for a while until someone caught on to the fact that they were the ones arranging the summonings. We basically did absolutely nothing to earn their ire. Had they not attacked us in the first place then we probably would not have cared as much about who they were and then they could have had the chance of suffering less interference from the WoL and Co.Quote:
Originally Posted by SessionZero
Instead, they brought attention to themselves, sold themselves off as the bad guys and had us looking into who they were which consequently resulted in us ultimately foiling their plans.
Well.... I mean I see where you are coming from and I can't outright argue against it per sé because interpretation is subjective, but when they said that they never intended to be heroes.... that pretty much applies to the WoL too. You can make points about how we technically murder everything and everyone but I think that might be looking a little too deeply into gaming mechanics as the WoL is always represented as the most virtuous and altruistic of souls out there. They may not have enjoyed the responsibility and burden of being their realm's saviours, but I imagine they were supposed to be kind-hearted enough to do what was right and ignore their own troubles to pioneer towards the greater good. When they complain that they never asked to be heroes, I think that's just their frustrations bleeding out over the fact that they never wanted to assume responsibility for the fate of their world, even if that's ultimately what they chose to do. They sacrificed absolutely everything for everyone but themselves. If the only reason they did that was because it was just another "adventure" then they are even more shallow and boring than I thought, haha ;Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwinLi
(Just as an aside, with all of that said I still thoroughly enjoyed this patch and the storyline - even if the WoD arc fell a little flat for me personally). -
10-04-2016, 03:15 PMGramul
I agree. And I hold no sympathy for them.
I'm just glad they're gone for good. -
10-04-2016, 03:30 PMMorningstar1337
I should point out two things about this
- Their methods of going to the Source made them a lot closer to the Ascians then they were to the Warrior of Light
- It's very likely that the consequences of their actions caused them to develop a stigma for the title of Warrior of Light in addition to mistrust of Hydealyn
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10-04-2016, 05:05 PMTheodric
As an additional note I quite liked how the Warriors of Darkness gave the impression of caring deeply for one another and fought as a team. That's something I want to see more of in the future. Livia was very shaken up upon being defeated because she knew that the Warrior of Light was set to confront Gaius - who she admired, respected and loved. When the antagonists lose one of their own and are shaken up by it then it tends to make them easier to relate to. I don't dislike Elidibus but...given that he pretty much treats everybody as a tool to be discarded at his convenience it's rather hard to feel much sympathy for him by comparison.
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10-04-2016, 06:16 PMKitingGenbu
What is nice to know is that my fetch quest actually saved someone's life! As the "fake" Griffin said that I fetched the ingredients to make an antidote or w/e that saved his life. Now I'm more inspired to do them!
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10-04-2016, 06:51 PMDragonSlayer45
I'll echo some thoughts here and agree that the WoD arc felt incredibly rushed.
I'm bothered at how quick they went from being evil to the game playing the world's smallest violin and expecting us to feel sorry for them. This is after the Mi'qote BRD gleefully remembering shooting, poisoning and nearly killing Alisaie to the Roegadyn PLD who shows no more than three incredibly psychotic expressions in just about every cutscene he was in.
After all that, they say that they were actually Warriors of Light from another world and all of their (blatantly cruel) actions were their effort in trying to save it after they unintentionally caused their world to end. Its an incredibly tough pill to swallow after their character development comes out of nowhere and we're supposed to feel sympathy for them when, up to this point, they were proving that they don't really deserve it. -
10-04-2016, 08:14 PMKhalithar
The whole WoD story went way too quick for my taste. Just very quickly resolved everything in one fight and now Minfilia is in another dimension, GG.
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10-04-2016, 09:21 PMMaero
You have the right to your opinion, but i for one think the story was great, as they usually are
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10-04-2016, 11:07 PMMagiusNecros
The arc was rushed. And amounted to Hydaelyn just using Minfilia making false promises and eating their aether afterwards anyway. What a way to go.
I disapprove of the introduction of characters in one patch and their removal in the next. No time to build up a character or care about them. -
10-05-2016, 12:29 AMAlleoI am not really sure why its always Hydaelyn' fault? I mean we know that she was weak, even so weak that she was not even able to talk to us on her own. So maybe she just couldn't help? Zodiark needs his Ascians to do something and it seems that Hydaelyn herself needs others too to help out. The WoD said that they did all the good because the people in their world asked them for it. They only blamed Hydaelyn for not helping them when they noticed that they are going to destroy their world with it, but she was in no situation to help. She is loosing the whole time so its not like she was doing this out of spite. As soon as she got some of her power back thanks to the Crystals, she instantly sent Minfilia there to help them. I am sorry but for me this was a great sign that no she is not evil and that she new that balance was still quite important. Or maybe since she seems to have faults too, she never knew that Light could hurt that much? I mean their world was the first that got too much Light, so maybe she never knew better?Quote:
Originally Posted by Teraluna
I like that we have a Goddess that clearly loves her children, but at the same time is not perfect and sometimes even helpless or is making mistakes. You could say that she is just like us, but with having way bigger impacts if she messes up.
Minfilia herself also said that it was out of her own free will do go to Hydaelyn and to accept being her Word. So no she did not grasp her forcefully.
About our WoL:
Well yes we do a lot of tasks for money but we also need Gil to be able to survive. And I would say that risking your live all the time really should award us with money. I even feel that we should get bigger rewards for doing it. One could say that a hero should do something just out of kindness and goodness of their heart but we are still humans and need to eat and live. The scions barely pay us anything and lets not start about the grand companies..we do more than any of their soldiers and saved Eorzea how many times already? So yes I feel that we are not greedy and way more selfless than other people in Eorzea. We do enjoy going against powerful enemies to test ourself but at the same time we show no glee in killing. My character never had such bad emotes like the paladin for example.
The dark knight quest (without much spoilers) is more about, how we are sick and tired of being used as a weapon by people and that they like to just use us instead of maybe thinking it through and not putting them self in such stupid danger. We still care about saving the true innocent people but are tired of all the other people that are just quite fast in calling us, even if that may endanger our own life. And I agree with it. This does not make us a bad hero in my eyes. We are after all still human and why should our life be less important than others?
I like my character with faults and I would have no problem if they somehow say that we are selfish people but I dont believe that we go around and gleefully kill people..we might not care that much about them but I believe that we are still more the type to ask questions first and shoot later..which is the opposite of the WoD. I would have no problems if the WoD would be more faulty and less our typical hero but they changed way to fast. Maybe I would have understood them better if we had more time with them. All the potential they had with using the echo and showing us their past and world..only to send them back at the end of the patch. Really I would have found this way more interesting than another man made conflict, which we will probably have to solve too..
But this is all just my opinion. :) I like that you can look at it with such different perspectives. But I still sometimes get the feeling that some love to make our character or Hydaelyn look like they are way worse than they are. -
10-05-2016, 12:41 AMAndevom
Considering I came from FFXI, we're still about 3 parallel worlds away from the point where I go "Okay, this is getting a little ridiculous."
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10-05-2016, 12:47 AMTeralunaCriticism of the way the story was handled is not anger. It's confusion and to a certain extent disappointment when compared to the story telling prior to 3.4Quote:
Originally Posted by DE-Roxas
The first main point, which more people have related to here, is the WoD curtailed arc and the manner in which it was rushed to termination. Good guys gone bad is ok, but to have them gleefully killing young innocents just didn't make much sense.
This brought in the second point, which was the whole Hydaelyn - going to kill you all with blinding light / oh hang on no I won't. Here's my possessed puppet, off you all go then. This came across like the ending to some children's pantomime where everything has to turn out right in the end, irrespective of any deeper introspection.
There where good parts to the story, albeit slightly predictable with the summonings, but they did serve to lead us to the end. The reunion with Yda and Papalymo was pretty low key considering nothing had been seen or heard of them - Did you get my note? - seemed to be the extent of the efforts to communicate with their closest friends and allies.
I'm sure 4.0 will be as good as ARR and Heavensward story arcs, which where excellent and looking forward to it very much. -
10-05-2016, 01:27 AMKaurieI just don't get it. The story here is way better than anything prior to 3.4, with the exception of 2.55 and 3.0.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teraluna
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10-05-2016, 01:34 AMVelhartThis is exactly how I felt. I was thinking that the Warriors of Darkness would play a role in 4.0 or at least cause the events that led to 4.0. They were built and hyped up since 3.1 and when we finally get something out of them besides a few teasers through the story, we already beat them and resolve their story. It felt borderline pointless their role because they contributed nothing to the transition between 3.0 to 4.0. It only felt like a side distraction to the main plot unless 4.0 plans on adding to this or bringing them back in some form.Quote:
Originally Posted by Theodric
I mean, it wasn't bad their plot, but it did feel pointless in the main story itself.
*EDIT*
I take back somewhat what I said. Someone's explanation of the thirteen parallel worlds makes sense and this did at least establish that information. -
10-05-2016, 01:46 AMTheodricYet how is that any different to the simple fact that the Warrior of Light shows the same inclinations during the DRK quest chain and literally goes across Eorzea slaying people for coin in addition to saving people from Primals? Both believe that their cause is righteous - however flawed that reasoning may be.Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonSlayer45
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10-05-2016, 06:37 AMGramulThat's really up to personal preference. Everything we're arguing here is subjective, but it doesn't hurt to share opinions and viewpoints so long as we keep them in perspective.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaurie
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10-05-2016, 07:23 AMKaitlanKela
Honestly, I'm glad the WoD are gone. I never liked them conceptually, I felt they were cheesy antagonists. I was pleased to hear that they actually did have some story and motivation other than "we're obviously the opposite of you," and I liked how the devs used them to bring the concept of parellel worlds into the story. However, they served their purpose and they can go back to where the other cheesy anti-heroes go when the plot device is over.
That said, can we talk about Nero? Am I the only one who's convinced he's found the OMEGA that was discussed in the 2.x series. If you look at his surroundings, he's very near the place where the level 60 (or maybe 58, can't remember) SMN job quest took place, which IIRC is at Cartenau, which is where OMEGA was and then Nero shows up all like "look at meh new toy," now THAT is a development I am interested in! -
10-05-2016, 08:06 AMVejjiegirlKinda sad they threw Nero's character development in the Crystal Tower saga out the window though.Quote:
Originally Posted by KaitlanKela