DF Penalty from withdrawing from a party in progress should be removed

I'd like it if someone gets kicked 3 times in an hour that they'll get a 30m penalty.

As it stands those those who do the "right" thing by willingly leaving are the ones who get punished, yet those who manipulate the system (trolls, harassers, DF fishers, etc) are rewarded for such behaviour. They also changed the system so that the kicked person can't return to that party that kicked them ... for the most part.

If you have legitimate disconnection issues then being kicked and eventually having a 30m penalty will benefit other players in that they won't have a DC'ing player to potentially ruin a dungeon/trial run and that DC'ing player can then try to do something with their issue (if they can). I know when I am having issues with my internet I'll leave a dungeon asap to try to fix an issue.

I seen a few people say the troublemakers should be stuck doing that one duty if they bail and finishing it will remove the restriction.

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

Actually, I HAVE lost my connection before. And enough such that if this was in-game I'd get locked out for 72 hours. And as I said, if someone can show me some better ideas for how to combat trolls, I'm all ears. The thing is, I'm already aware that my idea has flaws. And actually no, this isn't trolling. Unless I can hear some other ideas, I am deadly serious. And last time someone pushed me to the point of proving how much I stand by my opinions, I got banned from the forums for 10 days because I went to the far extreme on how much I stood by my opinions. Even though everything I said was deadly serious. Oh, and I did speak to the GMs about it, they refused to permanently ban me on that occasion because it was a first offfence.

However, I get you about it being difficult to prove, that was a short-sightedness on my part. But as I say, I don't know what other options we have here. At least with the severity of what I'd come out with, it closes multiple loopholes for trolls.

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I'mma be honest here, I think you're the only person that cares all that much about DF trolls. Some people might want harsher penalties, like people who drop the dungeon they got from the roulette to lose their roulette bonus for the day, but I don't think anyone would ever support a "F U go outside for 3 days" instance ban, no matter WHAT that guy in DF might have said about their mother.

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

I'mma be honest here, I think you're the only person that cares all that much about DF trolls. Some people might want harsher penalties, like people who drop the dungeon they got from the roulette to lose their roulette bonus for the day, but I don't think anyone would ever support a "F U go outside for 3 days" instance ban, no matter WHAT that guy in DF might have said about their mother.

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I like to think when I report cunts for being cunts they are punished in some manner, 72hours should be a "reward" for those who are proven to have abused the kick system. Since SE can't tell you what happens after you report them I've no idea if they even take the issue seriously or not.

30 minutes to 72 hours is... a very extreme escalation. I like the idea of a heavier penalty (mostly because I'm tired of people quitting once as they see someone new in the dungeon, it's annoying as hell), but holy crap, a 14300% increase is ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Lokier

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Reporting someone for harassment is an entirely separate issue from a 72-hour instance lockout for not JUST people who are kicked for trolling, but people who have repeated d/cs from instances, or are kicked for underperforming, or kicked for whatever reason, as the person I quoted suggested. The onus shouldn't be on people to prove that they're "not guilty", there should be proper action taken for people who ARE. Also, I'd highly advise you edit your language, as I've been temp banned for strong cursing before and all it would take is one person reporting you. (I snipped your quote if you choose to edit it.)

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Originally Posted by myahele

I'd like it if someone gets kicked 3 times in an hour that they'll get a 30m penalty.

As it stands those those who do the "right" thing by willingly leaving are the ones who get punished, yet those who manipulate the system (trolls, harassers, DF fishers, etc) are rewarded for such behaviour. They also changed the system so that the kicked person can't return to that party that kicked them ... for the most part.

If you have legitimate disconnection issues then being kicked and eventually having a 30m penalty will benefit other players in that they won't have a DC'ing player to potentially ruin a dungeon/trial run and that DC'ing player can then try to do something with their issue (if they can). I know when I am having issues with my internet I'll leave a dungeon asap to try to fix an issue.

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Even applying a 30-minute ban to someone who is kicked at all isn't that bad. It'll suck for the occasional innocent caught in the crossfire, but it's much easier to shrug off an unfair 30-minute lockout than it is to shrug off an unfair THREE DAY one. (As well as the mess of "appealing" a GM to fix the screw-up of what shouldn't be an acceptable system in the first place.) It's not as though misuse of the kick system can't be reported, though admittedly most people aren't stupid enough to admit in a tangible way that they're abusing it.

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

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And I've already said that in light of other ideas that have been made in this thread that my idea doesn't work. What more do you want, a bloomin public apology to everybody in the world (even those that don't play FFXIV), about how wrong I was and that I should never have ideas ever again? Jeez, I'm so close to just asking a GM to nuke all my posts from the past year just to be rid of this mess. Dunno if they'll do it, last time I asked them to permanently ban me from the forums and game because of a rule breach they refused because it was a 1st offence (they insisted the ban be only temporary and from the forums and not permanent from both forums and game). But nope, this idea I had that I've already agreed given feedback from others doesn't work is going to become the focal point of this now isn't it, saying just how stupid I am for thinking that way and that I should never think ever again.

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

Well the bolded part is most certainly music to my ears. However, from what you're telling me, reports are the best way to go about it. In that sense, I see trolls are already being dealt with. The thing is, I notice a good number of people who are like "Kick me" so as to avoid getting the penalty, or AFKing, or disconnecting, all so they get kicked and avoid the penalty. Any ideas on how to combat those? I mean, I do feel like we're really getting somewhere here, but just a couple of things left to iron out.

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Get through the dungeon without them, let it take ages due to the lacking DPS. And then, right before the final boss, after you've wasted all their time, THEN you kick them. The only language they understand is troll, so speak troll to them if you want them to understand.

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No, this is not true, you don't get penalized if you leave after joining a group in progress, go try it if you want. Since you don't know the circumstances in the new group SE doesn't force you to stay when you go in progress.

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Already did, been penalized for it. Admittedly though, this was some time ago and it's possible they changed the rules since.

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Well something has to be done about troll behaviour, and the reason I put the stuff in bold in is to try and stop the get out of jail free card by getting kicked or disconnecting until the end of the dungeon. It's harsh, but I'm not sure what else we can do to combat trolls. If someone legitimately lost connection and can prove it to the GMs, then it'd be reversed. I agree, I forgot to include that statement in my original post. But that's the thing, we need to find more improved ways to combat the trolls. If my ideas don't work (as you say they don't), what else can we do to combat it?

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The thing is, there's really only so far you can go to "combat trolls" while still providing an enjoyable gaming experience. 72 hour bans for things that may not even be the player's fault cross way over that line.

This is why they don't exercise "just ban everybody and let Hydaelyn sort em out" as a solution for getting rid of RMT.

Would be a pretty bad move if they removed it. Anyone could simply leave the queue because hey feel like it and not get penalized.

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Originally Posted by UnaLihzeh

30 minutes to 72 hours is... a very extreme escalation. I like the idea of a heavier penalty (mostly because I'm tired of people quitting once as they see someone new in the dungeon, it's annoying as hell), but holy crap, a 14300% increase is ridiculous.

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I've always felt that the penalty should be equivalent to the remainder on the timer for the instance. Leave a dungeon with an hour and twenty minutes left on the clock? Your penalty is an hour and twenty minutes. Anyone signing up for duty finder should be willing to pledge whatever time it takes to complete the duty.