PS4 PRO and FFXIV Graphics and Framerate Patch

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Originally Posted by LalafellDown

Nope I didn't miss the ease part. I built my first PC blind. When you buy parts like the motherboard it tells you what memory stick, GPU and CPU it supports. You just buy what it supports. I may be a idiot, but I can read simple guides.

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It's fairly straight forward to put a custom PC together as the slots and pins are labeled. But it's labor intensive and time consuming. And putting it together is just the first step. One assembled you must install Windows and set it up. Once installed you may still have to install various drivers which you must seek out yourself online. Then you must install the software or service that you will use to install games you wish to play (Steam/Origin/etc). And finally once the game is installed it may not run properly, or require you to make various adjustments before running properly. All in all it's a lot of work and time and a major pain in the ass.

That you are still using Windows 7 rather than Windows 10 illustrates how much a pain the installation process is. Unless you are using an illegitimate copy of Windows 7, I would suspect you didn't upgrade because the possibility of something going wrong during the upgrade process, forcing you to reinstall everything. Or perhaps you just thought it break things and felt it wasn't worth it. The point is, you didn't upgrade because you new it would require even more of your time and didn't do it because it's too much work and worry.

Tell me, am I wrong? Is it the PC moaning race. :)

As far as I know, they will adjust frame rate for some games, but I don't know about FFXIV

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Originally Posted by Worldofwarcraft

As far as I know, they will adjust frame rate for some games, but I don't know about FFXIV

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It's really simple. If a game has a framerate lock or limit at 30fps, then it will not do 60fps on a PS4Pro unless it is patched to do so. If a game does not have a framerate lock already in place, the much greater performance of the PS4Pro GPU will result in a much higher and more stable framerate with out the need for a patch. Based on the simple fact that the PS4 version of the game is based on the same code base as the PC version, and the PC version varies framerate with resolution and GPU power, I feel sure that FFXIV will have a better framerate on PS4Pro.

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Originally Posted by Shiroe

didn't Yoshi admit in the meantime, that (personal) Parsers are ok and part of the game.. since defacto all PC users have one. Yoshi used to be against it and wanted to ban such users, now he seen the profit from it..

sure, excluding other players from duties, cause of their dps is low is not fair.. but a "personal" parser, that only shows your own dps (not of other players) should be fine

and thought it might be a hardware issue, to keep the parser running smoothly on the PS4 without any hick ups.. (even some PCs have troulbe with them), that the PS4 Pro might handel it better

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It is ok to use parsers so long you don't give away the info that you use a parser and keep the numbers to yourself

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Originally Posted by Shiroe

seen what the PS4 pro really can.. and it really does look better (noticable, and dont mean UHD)...

and better framerates (as well as DX11??) would be nice... , but before that, SE should finally give us PS4 users a "personal dps parser" (maybe more dobale on a PS4 Pro??)

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No DX11 on a Sony console, and there was already a graphic update for the PS4 client

3.3:

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[2.0] A new option has been added to Frame Rate Settings under the Display Settings tab of the System Configuration interface. (Only for PlayStation®4)
Players can now choose the following settings:

High Quality
Scenery and lighting in the game will be displayed in optimized quality.
http://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/t/0e2...e5ebb57_93.png

Standard Quality
The game will be displayed in standard quality.
http://img.finalfantasyxiv.com/t/0e2...e5ebb57_94.png

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Originally Posted by Felis

No DX11 on a Sony console, and there was already a graphic update for the PS4 client

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DX11 is a software library that utilizes specific hardware and exposes it to game developers. The GPU in PS4 is DX11 capable - meaning it has the hardware, so equivalent libraries can (and do) offer similar support to developers. DX11 is not some super sekret special sauce, it's a Microsoft middle-ware standard to allow lower level access to hardware, nothing more, nothing less.

Only SE is blocking Playstation users from playing at 60fps. I mean even DCUO has ps4 players playing at 60fps while ps3 players are still stuck at 30

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

DX11 is a software library that utilizes specific hardware and exposes it to game developers. The GPU in PS4 is DX11 capable - meaning it has the hardware, so equivalent libraries can (and do) offer similar support to developers. DX11 is not some super sekret special sauce, it's a Microsoft middle-ware standard to allow lower level access to hardware, nothing more, nothing less.

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Because it is from Microsoft it will not be on a Sony console. Sony use OpenGL.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Because it is from Microsoft it will not be on a Sony console. Sony use OpenGL.

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That's what I said. However, people throw DX11 and DX12 around like magical talismens of specialness and then say "but Playstation hasn't got that". The point I was making was that the software library depends on the feature set of the GPU, and the GPU in PS4 is just as much an AMD GCN design as their PC cards. I'm sure you already know that, but most (including the poster you had replied to) seem unaware and treat DX11 as some kind of magical PC exclusive feature without understanding that the hardware matters more than the software.

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Originally Posted by Derio

Only SE is blocking Playstation users from playing at 60fps. I mean even DCUO has ps4 players playing at 60fps while ps3 players are still stuck at 30

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We're gonna need a link for that since it makes no sense to actively prevent their game from performing well. Plus I've never seen or heard any indication from SE to that effect.

Would be good to know if the team plans to release a patch for this for PS4PRO

If at all it would just look better since i believe they updated this game for 4K support?
Framerates i do not expect them to change, even though the Pro will be more Powerful.
I have the Pro Pre-ordered :)
The Pro is not just a little more powerful, look at the specs.....

Tomb Raider PS4 has three graphics options.

-4K 30fps
-1080p with unlocked framerates
-1080p 30fps with max graphics


This should too. They need to drop the PS3, and push the expansion graphics so it tanks the default PS4 to 30fps, and add more settings on top.

Also fix the segment world, physics of the game, like jumping, geometry of objects etc. With Legion, FFXIV has fallen behind visually and designwise, it's painful. Love the game but they need to fix this.

The PS4 Pro is just a overclocked 4K emulator for Sony's VR hardware. Games are still going to run at 1080 and its not worth upgrading from the standard PS4 or Slim. Unless you're one of those people that doesn't need 4k Blue Ray and plan to play on the VRs few titles. All while cutting costs by getting a 4k tv that isn't smart with all the 4k video apps already on it. Otherwise even if it were to run at a 120fps, it wont change delay due to lag on the network, or make any of the current textures look any more HD than they are now. Just better darks and highlights.

PS4 Pro's GPU is 2.4x more powerful than the PS4 (1.8 teraflops to 4.2 teraflops) with a 30% overclock to CPU and increase in RAM bandwidth, and that's without the Polaris architecture improvements. It will make a huge difference for performance, even if graphics aren't upgraded.

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Originally Posted by kaptainpancake69

PS4 Pro's GPU is 2.4x more powerful than the PS4 (1.8 teraflops to 4.2 teraflops) with a 30% overclock to CPU and increase in RAM bandwidth, and that's without the Polaris architecture improvements. It will make a huge difference for performance, even if graphics aren't upgraded.

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Someone that understands

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Originally Posted by kaptainpancake69

PS4 Pro's GPU is 2.4x more powerful than the PS4 (1.8 teraflops to 4.2 teraflops) with a 30% overclock to CPU and increase in RAM bandwidth, and that's without the Polaris architecture improvements. It will make a huge difference for performance, even if graphics aren't upgraded.

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As Maero says, at last someone who understands.

Even though the CPU is only an 'overclocked' 8-core Jaguar, it may be better than we think. The Jaguar cores had to be remade for the smaller processing node. Earlier in the year it was confirmed that Sony had essentially two choices when it came to the usual die shrink to improve power and reduce the heat generated. They could either pay AMD for the work needed to shrink Jaguar (because it could not be shrunk without work), or wait for the Zen cores (still not ready for primetime). Sony appears to have ponied up to shrink the Jaguar - which would have required a pretty decent degree of modification and I would suggest some optimizations and bug fixes. Had they opted to wait for Zen, then PS4Pro would not be here until Holiday season 2017 like Scorpio.

The net impact is that the CPU may perform better than the faster clocking suggests. And, as you rightly point out the Polaris cores are better than the South Seas cores in the older PS4 GPU. So core for core, clock for clock they should be faster, meaning that the GPU is probably more than 2.4 times as fast as the one in the PS4. Some of the performance gains will not be measured in raw TFlops, and Sony's GPU has some additional features, not implemented in PC GPUs, designed to increase multi-processing performance. As you point out we also have to throw in the additional bandwidth in the system as well. It will be difficult to measure the exact increase in performance or power of the system as a whole, even if you can benchmark specific elements like GPU and CPU.

All in all, PS4Pro is a pretty significant upgrade. Existing games that do not have locked framerates should achieve 60fps on PS4Pro with ease. As far as I know, the PS4 and PC versions of FFXIV (same code base) are not frame rate limited on either platform, so....we should see some framerate benefits for PS4Pro users even without specific PS4Pro support.

...sorry I appear to have geeked out a bit there. The dangers of being a lifetime hardware geek, and writing about tech & gaming news for several online news sites over the years...

Oh not at all Kosmos, i enjoy having read what you posted, hehe
Even in terms of visuals those without a 4K tv should see changes, not as good as 4K obviously.
I ordered mine for the faster speeds and knowing i may very well get a 4K tv before PS5 comes out

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Originally Posted by Laraul

Tell me, am I wrong? Is it the PC moaning race. :)

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Fine, I'll bite. If anyone's moaning, it's you. All you've mentioned in your can completed well within a day. Sure, it takes a few more hours than getting your console up and running, but that's expected. If you have a mid to high end build of the latest hardware, your game settings can be pulled straight to high/ultra. Some games will even detect your hardware and do it for you, or you can set a general preset. If your game doesn't run properly, turn some intensive settings down.

As for LalafellDown using Win7, it remains a VERY GOOD operating system and I understand him completely. I myself upgraded to Win10, so I can speak about the egregious bother it was to launch the .exe file and do something else for a little bit while the installation was running. I came back, expected some chinks, sorted them out over the next few days as they appeared and went on with it.

If you want something that resembles a bother, getting games to run under Wine on Linux can still lead to some frustration. Some games work all nice and dandy (FFXI is on the top of games working flawlessly out of the box), some requires mucking about in regex (FFXIV requires importing some keys provided on the Wine page to run and some more tricking to sort out headaches), some just refuse to work for whatever reason, and some work better if you use an older version of Wine. Have fun.

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Originally Posted by LalafellDown

at $500 or less you could build a PC way better than console.

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Thats actually a mistake PC Gamers make. A PS4 can run games that both the PC and PS4 share at better performance then a PC does with similar parts. And to get the results, or better, the PS4 has, you'd need to dump at least $600-700 into a PC. Its due to the way the PS4 was designed, as well as the fact that its a unified system where PC is not. Or the fact that the 500mb ram is only used for background processes and the network, where everything else uses the 8gb GDDR5. I'm not saying the PS4 is better then PC, or that PC is better then PS4, both have flaws. But most PC gamers look at the specs and immediately say its shit without looking into how it works. In fact, PCs are starting to be made with the same design system the PS4 uses.

Here are my PC specs:

OS: Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3570K CPU @ 3.40GHz (4 CPUs), ~3.4GHz
RAM: 32gb DDR3
Graphics Card: 2x NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 2GB (Superclocked) in SLI
Mobo: AsRock z77 Extreme 4

Now with those specs, my PS4 outperforms my PC by a noticeable amount. And the PS4 Pro will make that gap even bigger.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

All in all, PS4Pro is a pretty significant upgrade. Existing games that do not have locked framerates should achieve 60fps on PS4Pro with ease. As far as I know, the PS4 and PC versions of FFXIV (same code base) are not frame rate limited on either platform, so....we should see some framerate benefits for PS4Pro users even without specific PS4Pro support.

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The PS4 version of FFXIV, when working on it, Yoshida said it could go over 100 fps. However, the cooling system the PS4 has was not that good, so they capped the FPS to 60 FPS max to keep the system from overheating.

the PS4 already runs on high settings. I think the current PS4 GPU is the equivalent of an R9 270, which gets a consistent ~40ish fps everywhere, but the PS4 pro could be expected to get a consistent 60ish fps on the same settings.

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Originally Posted by Tatsuya227

Here are my PC specs:

OS: Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3570K CPU @ 3.40GHz (4 CPUs), ~3.4GHz
RAM: 32gb DDR3
Graphics Card: 2x NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660 2GB (Superclocked) in SLI
Mobo: AsRock z77 Extreme 4

Now with those specs, my PS4 outperforms my PC by a noticeable amount. And the PS4 Pro will make that gap even bigger.

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No, your PS4 most certainly does not outperform your PC by a noticeable amount & if that is the case the problem resides with YOU & not the systems.

First off the PS4's GPU is a modified HD 7870 which is give or take comparable to ONE of your 660s in terms of graphical prowess, secondly your CPU outclasses the PS4 CPU. Or APU if you will.

From someone who used to use a similar build as yours before upgrading (albeit two 670s/i7 3700k, but 1 670 would have done the job) & also owns a PS4, the performance difference was massive, including the graphical fidelity at the max with much higher FPS.

If anything on the PS4 it struggles to maintain 60 fps at high settings and this has been proven with dozens of benchmarks.

Speaking of benchmarks FFXIV uses a benchmarking score system ranging from
[Under 1000]
Insufficient performance

[7000+]
Extremely High performance.

Using the collected benchmark info ONE 660 averaged a score of 7670.

Now don't get the wrong idea, I am not saying the PS4 is a weak system it's actually a pretty great performer and without cutting corners the best money has to offer in that price range but simply saying a i5-3570K & two 660s in SLI does worse than your PS4 is absolutely absurd, there's a reason why this equipment costs significantly more.

Continued yet again for low char limit>

As someone who's excited for the PS4 Pro and plan on getting one soon, chances are it's not going to be that much different from the PC you're using, maybe GPUwise but I am severely doubting it's going to weigh against your i5.

Either way I stand by the PS4(&very likely Pro edition) are extremely great value for what you pay for, minus the subscription to play online for other games but that's a whole different story.


Sources:
http://ff14bench.info/benchmark/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n72MTWMPuCg

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/di...4-ps4-face-off

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Performance is variable in Final Fantasy 14 on PS4, with the game spending the majority of time in 30-45fps region, peaking at 60fps in less demanding scenes. V-sync ensures that screen-tearing is kept at bay

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Originally Posted by Krisom

As someone who's excited for the PS4 Pro and plan on getting one soon, chances are it's not going to be that much different from the PC you're using, maybe GPUwise but I am severely doubting it's going to weigh against your i5.

Either way I stand by the PS4(&very likely Pro edition) are extremely great value for what you pay for, minus the subscription to play online for other games but that's a whole different story.


Sources:
http://ff14bench.info/benchmark/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n72MTWMPuCg

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/di...4-ps4-face-off

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But it's really not, the system is almost the same as the base unit, the cpu is tuned at 2.1 ghz, there are machines out there that fit the same price, that outpreform the ps pro.

My ps4 is possessed spits out fisks n beeps for no reason so trading it in with a bit of cash for the ps4 pro xD apparentlt some games will have patches on day 1 but not all are doing it

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Originally Posted by Spawnie

My ps4 is possessed spits out fisks n beeps for no reason so trading it in with a bit of cash for the ps4 pro xD apparentlt some games will have patches on day 1 but not all are doing it

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That happens when its not cleaned and filled with dust. Mine use to do that before I got all the dust out

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Originally Posted by SaitoHajime

That happens when its not cleaned and filled with dust. Mine use to do that before I got all the dust out

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Nah its a power issue to fix it for a while need to rebuild database n unplug power cord from wall n ps4 for 10 to 15mins sometimes it happens 6 to 7 timess a day n sometimes wont do it for weeks xD

On phone cant edit so sorry for double posting... sony support sent me email how to fix the issue but gets annoying after a whiles... they wanted 300$ n my current ps4 n would send me 2nd hand 1 lmao yet can get ps4 pro by trading my ps4 in n not as much money xD so no brainer for me lol

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Unless a person does not already have a PS4 why would person want to spend another $400 for slightly better specs then what they already have.

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Ask PC gamers...

Well in my case, I recently won a 4k TV from my company, when setting it up, I realized I didnt have anything other than maybe a high end pc that would take advantage of the higher resolution... so when I heard about ps4 pro, I was like yaay, a working 4k console,

Square Enix clearly shows support for either up-scaling to 4k, or high frame rates, Deus Ex, Tomb Raider, and Final Fantasy 15 will be supported, so its possible, maybe not a graphical update so to speak, compared to a decent pc (I remember Yoshi P was mentioning how graphics were not a factor in any of the versions of the game, when ps4 ver. was announced), simply takes a bit of deduction to realize Square Enix is really hooked on this 4K, and wants to bring it across all Their Titles (Final Fantasy VII 4k ... woot woot!)

Look chances are we probably wont know anything until the developers tell us, and this is all speculation... but its strange for this title to be any different than the other newly released AAA titles

Newly released games won't be at 4K unless they're graphically lightweight, this game at a decent framerate at 4K won't happen and if FFVIIIRemake has any of the graphical fidelity that XV has it won't run at 4K without terrible FPS.

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Originally Posted by Krisom

No, your PS4 most certainly does not outperform your PC by a noticeable amount & if that is the case the problem resides with YOU & not the systems.

First off the PS4's GPU is a modified HD 7870 which is give or take comparable to ONE of your 660s in terms of graphical prowess, secondly your CPU outclasses the PS4 CPU. Or APU if you will.

From someone who used to use a similar build as yours before upgrading (albeit two 670s/i7 3700k, but 1 670 would have done the job) & also owns a PS4, the performance difference was massive, including the graphical fidelity at the max with much higher FPS.

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I can show you my YouTube with video from both my PS4 and PC and you'll see that the PS4 has better performance then my PC. As I said before, its not just about the hardware, its about how unique the PS4 uses it and is built. In face, PCs are starting to be built the same way the PS4 was built.

Now then I'm not talking about DX11 (or the Draw Quality settings that were added to the PS4 version; which is basically the remaining DX11 upgrades the PS4 didn't get when HW came out). When it comes to DX11, yes the PS4 is behind my PC a tad bit. However with the Pro, I imagine the PS4 Pro will out class my PC in the DX11 field as well.

If you look at my newest video (Xelphatol clear: https://youtu.be/_MHtPEGeNWk or The Great Gubal Library (Hard Mode) Clear: https://youtu.be/n-T9VepnQCs) you see how it is on my PC. While here is how it is on my older videos from PS4 (A1S Clear: https://youtu.be/HXvjWsA7f94 or Aetherochemical Research Facilityclear: https://youtu.be/jmXVNvQM7ZY).

I gave you objective evidence with sources to back it up how your PS4(And atleast the processor of Pro) is worse than your dual 660s and your i5.

If you're finding performance to be worse then it's because of you, not your hardware.

The PS4 struggles to maintain 60fps in the majority of places, two 660s and your i5 will maintain 60fps at max settingsa in the majority of places other than those which are crowded.

Your videos don't prove anything. No matter how many comparisons you put out as an individual the facts are there, the specs you listed far outweigh your PS4 & as benchmarks have proven from multiple sources even 1 660 with an i5 performs better. I don't mean to sound dismissive after all that effort but it doesn't add anything to your claim.

Elder scrolls online will run at native 4K on PS4 pro so I hope FF gets updated to.

I will just sit and watch while PC gamers try to convince PS4 gamers that pc is superior even tough the main reason we console gamers don't care about it

Pc outperforms a ps4, some do but looking at the price of the ps4 and that highend gaming pc..... There is no competition whatsoever.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

The PS4Pro is just another PS4 - except it has better performance. The same games will run on either piece of hardware. Developers may take advantage of the additional performance of the PS4 Pro if they wish, but only in terms of the graphics and framerates.

No patch to the game is required for it to run on PS4Pro, it will run with better frame rates and possibly better fidelity. If SE wishes they can include additional graphical optimizations for PS4Pro - as long as they do not impact game play - allowing the game to look better on PS4Pro, but play no differently to PS4.

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So now I got my PS4 pro and FF14 installed Idyllshire
still 20-23 frame rates so it NEED a patch for better fps on ps4 pro

Picked up my pro 2day after 6 hour download of arr n hw now have 5 hour patching lol stupid australia n its really horrible internet ._.