Petition to keep non-instanced dungeons.

definitely more instanced dungeons.

We can have non-instanced dungeons as long as the good stuff would be instanced.

Why should the good stuff be saved for instanced? Just curious on your logic there.

It shouldn't, there should be good stuff everywhere. In 2012 there is no excuse for any MMO to be centralized around a single content type. It just ridiculous to make every dungeon instanced.

I am fine with both types of content however, I think the instanced dungeons should still be open dungeons, and people can still use the LFG tool to go there, but they will still be competing against other players. Also, throw in level sync so you wont have high levels coming in and trying to rampage or PL through everything.

Either way, I'm fine with what they do and want to see both options of instanced and non instanced dungeons.

I harber no hate for instanced content, I just find MMOs tend to lean on them far too heavilly to work around issues instead of fixing the inherent problem or even giving the community time to adjust to new content.

Example: Strongholds were extremly popular when first released, people couldn't get many NM claims. Few weeks afterwards? It's pretty easy to get NM Claims even if you happen to run across competition it's far and few between.

I think instancing FFXIV is SE's way to work around the knee-jerk response to new content, and shoehorn the "Cross server" dungeon mechanic into the game when it hasn't even shown a real need for it so far even with our small community I don't see many people being "Left out" of content like the Darkhold or Totorak.

I prefer to have a combination of both. Instances are fantastic for personalized content, but open dungeons/areas make it feel like a world, which to me is the most important part of a MMORPG.

As far as the cross-server stuffs goes...personally I plan to never ever use it unless absolutely necessary.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jynx

Example: Strongholds were extremly popular when first released, people couldn't get many NM claims. Few weeks afterwards? It's pretty easy to get NM Claims even if you happen to run across competition it's far and few between.

I think instancing FFXIV is SE's way to work around the knee-jerk response to new content, and shoehorn the "Cross server" dungeon mechanic into the game when it hasn't even shown a real need for it so far even with our small community I don't see many people being "Left out" of content like the Darkhold or Totorak.

---

I'm sure that's because there was no other content. Also players shouldn't have to wait "[a] Few weeks afterwards" when new content is released because the top LS is camping a spot non stop until they get what they want.

I like instanced dungeons. More benefits on a per-player basis.

Hmm.. I kinda want both. I like instanced dungeons, but at the same time, I have very fond memories levelling in XI in places like crawler's nest. It would be great if SE catered to both play styles.

Earlier quotes by Lavani:

No, they need more instanced dungeons. This will help with camping/stealing bosses or training. Also it will allow more people to enjoy the game because people with lesser computers will be able to partake in content, instead of lagging in world instances because of the large concentration of parties in the area.

I despise the thought of the game being mainly world dungeons. It's a horrible mechanic because it breeds rude players and limits the access of content to a small percentage of players.

I'm not against world dungeons, I enjoy those as well, to an extent. But I have played many MMO's where my group will fight to the boss only to find out he's been taged, so we wait for a respawn only to have 4 other groups waiting to tag a the same boss. If we happen to get it, often times other players will try and train mobs on us to get us killed so they can claim the boss. Sometimes they fail, sometimes they are able to bring enough mobs where our healers get rushed with adds and the group ends up wiping.

These tactics are cheap, and annoying. It comes to the point where if you wan't to get that kill, you have to be rude back to people, and try and get them killed so you can claim a boss. Overall this type of game play creates more aggression between groups of people instead of having a community where players are respectful and helpful.

Now this is very true in fact. To me, i am voting for instance dungeons because i don't want FFXIV to be stained with botting/hacking people from FFXI. Those type of people are the worst kind. And of course grief tactics walk hand in hand with them.

Instance dungeons will prevent these botters/hackers to showcase their flairs. And that is exactly what you want to do Yoshi-san if in order you want to have a happy online community in FFXIV.

But of course you would naturally add non-instanced areas in the game as well and having a few NMs/HNMs run around them. But make sure Yoshi-san, the instanced dungeons gives better loot than non-instanced areas. If not, you will see non-instanced areas being camped heavily, people will be flaming on forums and the game will not be so nice like what happened in camping areas for FFXI till instanced areas was introduced. But still that didn't solve anything much.

So it's pretty simple, you can have the best of both worlds. Having instanced areas and non-instanced areas. (I'd still want instanced areas). It's up to you devs. But the real question arises when you start placing the loot rewards. That is where the line will so crystal clearly be drawn. That will hold the balance towards the HNM & NM scene.

For me, simple enough, add the best loot and rewards in instanced dungeons. Why i say this is because FFXIV has no place for botters and hackers and they walk around town parading themselves and letting people see that they have the best gear on them. No way.

I would rather you obtain the best gear in an instanced dungeon where you fight real tough enemies, utilize your mechanics as you progress thru and finally face the boss, kill it and obtain the gear. Then i would say you have deservingly obtained your gear thru the hard way unlike people in a non-instanced area where they just sit down and camp the NM/HNM. Once pop, he/she claims it, kills it with overwhelming support and then blows their trumpets showcasing the gear obtained. And it is always the same people no doubt many know they bot hack their way thru. No place for this.

Botters/Hackers would be greatly displeased reading my post. Happy gaming. I want a fair environment. I want everyone to deserve a chance at getting the best possible item regardless if it is multiples of it. Instanced and non-instanced but simple enough, rewards, loot wise, the best of it should be inside instanced areas.

Because non-instanced dungeons will work with the cross-server grouping they're planning on adding.


owait

I like that guild leves take place in the open world.

I like places where the resident mobs drop pop items for NMs. Something like the stronghold areas we have now.

But instances seem the way to go for the most challenging content. Events can be scripted and balanced with no room for claim fighting. Win, win and win.

Concerning the OP's complaints from his other thread:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rokien

Rank 20 dungeon:
-Has more to it
-Meet new people(party up with strangers)
-NMs that you have to do certin things to make em pop(from what I understand)
-Chests that have random drops
-Different level of chests(rare keys to commen)
-Multiple floors
-Not instanced
-Fun and thrill of the hunt(claiming the nm)

---

Most of this has nothing to do with instancing.

Yes, you can meet strangers wandering around in a non-instanced dungeon. Who does this? If I am going to complete a dungeon, instanced or not, I form a group in town and then head there. I don't head out there and hope to meet up with some like-minded strangers. Does anyone?

Yes, you can compete to claim NMs if they aren't instanced. I understand some people like this, but I don't.

If the developers are going to spend their time to design a dungeon/raid, whatever you want to call it, I would prefer they make it instanced. Otherwise, sure, hire twice the staff and make both.

Totally agree with the OP. Non istanced dungeons are necessary too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Antonn

Because non-instanced dungeons will work with the cross-server grouping they're planning on adding.


owait

---

Don't even know what you are trying to say........? Of course it's not going to work with the cross server crap, NO DUH.

As mentioned above, where instances offer BETTER gear...
Personally, they need to limit instances.
(an example would be the anima system.)
for casual players, u can theoretically do 1-3 dungeons a day, before you are spent (if you hold out till weekends only, then maybe all day long.)
but for hardcore players, a nearly identical drop will be on an NM/HNM outside of the dungeon, for those who can't enter the dungeons anymore.
(I don't like limiting dungeon entering, so much as maybe the boss room entering.)
also, because i dislike how in XI wiping to a boss, could mean not doing the fight again, hard for new ppl to 'get a feel' of the fight.
I would suggest 3 'zones'
(1) the dungeon
(2) the waiting room, before the boss.
(3) boss room. when u die, you go back to room 2.
if you win, you are taken out.

Count me in on this one. I don't mind instanced dungeons as such, dislike them somewhat though I may, but all of them?

Sorry that just seems.. decidedly 'meh' to me, especially given they remove the factor of possibly bumping into someone in the same dungeon, which I always liked. - Mabinogi had a nice answer to that, at least. A dungeon generated under the same parameters (same item on altar, non-special items or circumstances aside) would send people to the same instance.

Anyway.. my voice is against total instancing.

Actually 100% behind the idea..
For all the issues XIV has it also has some great bits like this that could easily be kept..
So i can see no reason we cant keep and have more open dunegon areas along side instanced allowing open to be more situational tactics, path though/faster re-spawning mobs ext, with instanced maybe have some real puzzle/time/objective based parts to them.

With the fact were getting downsized areas (probably a lot smaller but i hope not) SE could actually go ahead with the open dungesons being a huge part of there own zone, and inside those zones are several instanced dungeons.
So when you set out to do a instances you have to get there as well, this would obviously cause tears from the omg give it me now with no effort crowed but well meh, I like a bit of challenge and risk (ok more effort in most games)/reward.

not mad about that idea ^

I agree they need to keep open dungeons. But if everything will be in zones in 2.0 I wounder if that's what he meant?

I would be upset if all the dungeons were like toto rak and you only had so long of a time limit to play in them. As long as I can still go into them whenever I want and stay as long as I want I'm ok with zoned/instanced dungeons.

I don't want every dungeon to be Toto-Rak and Darkhold, my personal preference is a underground cave background when i grind for hours on end. As long as I can do that in these instanced dungeons he's talking about, I'm fine with it. I just don't want a time limit and party requirements.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rokien

Why should the good stuff be saved for instanced? Just curious on your logic there.

---

Why shouldn't it, is a better question.

Quote:

---

I don't see many people being "Left out" of content like the Darkhold or Totorak.

---

It's pretty apparant that nobody wants to do these dungeons anymore, more so for Darkhold, this will only get worse as they become older, so for people who want to do them the odds of finding a party who want to will grow smaller and smaller, thats where the dungeon finder will come in handy even more so when its cross server.

It's all pretty simple to understand.

I do agree with the person who suggested limits on dungeons and instances, something like you can only do one specific instance per day, this obviously would require a lot of dungeons.

By the time 2.0 is here we should have a good selection of instances though and many more to follow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinko

It's pretty apparant that nobody wants to do these dungeons anymore, more so for Darkhold, this will only get worse as they become older, so for people who want to do them the odds of finding a party who want to will grow smaller and smaller.

---

Moving to a system of all instances is only going to make this worse. Dungeon finder is not going to solve this problem. People get bored of instances. Especially since they are not places you can just go hang out with people and mess around. No one will be searching for the instances they are bored of on dungeon finder, so trying to use it to get that dungeon will not help.

We need Dungeons that we can just be inside. Places where people will cross paths. Places where you do not get kicked out after an hour. Places that you can't "Fail". Dungeons should not always be a race against time or a proof of skill. Sometimes they need to just be fun.

So...why can't they be both?
Have an option to let your party go through a dungeon in an instanced fassion, but keep it open for solo explorers who don't want to be constrained by a time limit and impatient parties who don't want to waste time looking for treasure and secrets.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rokien

Yosh-p has stated that he wants to make all dungeons instanced. That doesn't settle well with me. Considering I love the rank 20(15) open dungeon, I've stated my reasons in another thread a while back. He said that the open world content will be the strongholds(there's a few more, I know). I'm making this thread to keep and to make more open world dungeons. Please sign and like this thread if you want to see this happen. Please do not post saying "INSTANCED IS BEST" this is a thread for the people who want to keep and see more open world dungeons. Thank you.

PS: I'm not saying to take out instanced dungeons, but to keep non instanced ones and keep making more, along side the instanced ones.
Link to my reasons the rank 20 dungeon is better than rank 50 one. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...geon-please%21

Other thought for you instance lovers:
-Make the dungeon open to everyone
-Have to run through a tough area
-area is level capped
-Instanced NM(like Ifrit) still level capped!

---

Just like the real world, I HATE regulation. The rules to follow in some areas are fine but regulating the game with instances to prevent or discourage "blah blah blah" shouldn't be something to worry about.

I do VOTE for non-instanced zones/dungeons, hence the "invisible wall" you can't pass because some "galka like brute" says you cant (why not just put up a freaken brickwall!).

I understood the concept of cross-server dungeon finder but why?? WTF why?? Are people going to be that lazy and cause lag to an area because they're standing in front of bulletin board or just standing idle worrying, wondering, debating...
Why not create an incentive to build alliances to enter IT++ dungeons without so many rules! Turn it around and apply restrictions for dungeons w/o rules, why, why both?? As I want to help promote a movement for player freedom. That is what will make this game great!



STOP MIRRORING OTHER MMOS!




We know there's RMT... we know there's BOTTING... but are we going to sacrifice our freedoms and fun because of something SE should have a finger on already? That's what we'll be paying you for in the future,right? I rather pay for good service despite the terrible game play because I know we'll have a community worth being with and fighting with (which Final Fantasy has the best of).

OPEN dungeons, no level restriction- bar none!

"Stand for liberty!"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PSxpert2011

IT++ dungeons

---

What does it mean !! :S

Quote:

---

We know there's RMT... we know there's BOTTING... but are we going to sacrifice our freedoms and fun because of something SE should have a finger on already?

---

Restrictions to try (and fail) to stop bots while forgetting about how it might negitavly effect the average player was a huge problem with this game in the first place.

lol Jinko you just like to argue huh :P Id rather not have instanced areas(like iv said before) we can't change that, we can however change where there's just as much or more open areas(dungeons) than there are closed. Or, don't have dungeons at all. Come up with something new and innovative! Come on SE! Bring the soft in ya out!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinko

What does it mean !! :S

---

Why "Incredibly Tough with a High Defense and Evasion" of course...

Personally, I think they need a good balance of both. Here's my thoughts, so take it as you will:

Pro's for Instanced Dungeons

• friends who know each other can play together easier
• other parties/groups can't interfere in negative ways (no competition in terms of loot or claiming monsters for exp, no PK'ing, etc.)
• easier to "train" party members in terms of what they need to do
• easier for developers to adjust and balance as necessary
• easier on server load(?)

Con's for Instanced Dungeons

• gets repetitive and predictable very quickly, unless there are random/variable events or paths to keep things interesting
• fixed party sizes can either keep a large group from inviting friends, or a small group from even participating in the first place
• sometimes specific class, party, or moveset arrangements are necessary to take out difficult bosses, and is discouraging to those who want to use the classes/moves they're used to (Archers for the Ogre in Dzaemel Darkhold, Lancers w/ Sentinel ability for Ifrit, etc.)
• currently, all the instanced areas require a quest to be performed beforehand, as well as having a certain level and involvement with a Grand Company

Pro's for Non-Instanced Dungeons

• no restrictions on party sizes or levels, easier to just "jump in"
• currently, quests involved with non-instanced dungeons are optional, and are not mandatory in order to enter
• possible for very large groups to cooperate together to tackle a tough goal
• random player disconnects are less of an issue on party strength when large groups are involved
• usually a greater sense of accomplishment and teamwork when you can get through the toughest areas of the game with all of your friends/LS members involved

Con's for Non-Instanced Dungeons

• lots of competition for drops and exp, especially against a single NM
• difficult to manage large groups of people
• currently, there is no party alliance system
• easy for people to overwhelm an area with sheer numbers
• difficult to balance properly
• high stress on servers
• people with low-end PC's or internet speeds will have issues seeing/loading everything going on

@ Tetsaru

I might not agree with all your pro/cons but a good post.

An i feel a lot of the cons for both can be addressed if done right, or almost totally negated by having both forms of dungeons.
Even more so if the Open Dungeons were actually slightly smaller zones all to them self, with several mini bosses/NVM goals, puzzles, and again had related instanced dungeon entrances based within the Open Dungeon areas.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rokien

They can still have that with the instanced dungeons. I just want them to keep and to make more non instanced dungeons.

---

There will be some content that isn't instanced and there are other areas in the game that are really no different than Shposhoe or w/e it is called like Mun Tuy cellars. They are a place to level and has low level NMs. I think those areas will not be instanced if they stay in the game even after it is made into zones. Then like someone else said even if areas like that get their own zones then it really won't be much different than being an instance except you have to compete for mobs etc. Hopefully strongholds will take on a FFXI-Like experience come 2.0. I would like to have a full zone that is dedicated to being a multi leveled beastmen stronghold much like Ft. Ghelsba and the other strongholds in FFXI.

We don't know what he means fully until we get more info. of what is to come and how changes are going to effect the game world. You may get a surprise after we get more information. Also to go with this point I hope sometime around 2.0 release or before that they put a stop to power leveling so when PS3 players join the game there is actually a point to doing low level content. Currently you do not stay a low level anything for more than a day and low level content is pointless.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiote

Moving to a system of all instances is only going to make this worse. Dungeon finder is not going to solve this problem. People get bored of instances. Especially since they are not places you can just go hang out with people and mess around. No one will be searching for the instances they are bored of on dungeon finder, so trying to use it to get that dungeon will not help.

---

Of course it will help, the chance of finding like minded people across multiple servers is much higher than just your own.

Quote:

---

We need Dungeons that we can just be inside. Places where people will cross paths. Places where you do not get kicked out after an hour. Places that you can't "Fail". Dungeons should not always be a race against time or a proof of skill. Sometimes they need to just be fun.

---

Someone else mentioned that instances don't need strict time restraints.
Someone else mentioned that he got his party together in town and then left for the dungeon, not the other way round.

Almost nobody I know goes to the lvl 20 dungeon with the chance they may stumble across a party.

Just like in 11 how nobody ran to garlaige to look for a party, they stayed in Jeuno and shouted with their flag up.

Quote:

---

lol Jinko you just like to argue huh :P

---

It is looking that way >.>

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jinko

Someone else mentioned that instances don't need strict time restraints.
Someone else mentioned that he got his party together in town and then left for the dungeon, not the other way round.

Almost nobody I know goes to the lvl 20 dungeon with the chance they may stumble across a party.

Just like in 11 how nobody ran to garlaige to look for a party, they stayed in Jeuno and shouted with their flag up.

---

You don't go to a dungeon to look for a party, though i've played many MMO where people do, you go there to do something and you hapen to meet people along the way. SOmetimes you have the same goal and team up, sometimes you save someones life, sometimes you just walk by another person doing their own thing. The point is in an instanced dugeon other players do not exist. You are alone, all the time. Or in the case of a Content finder you are shoved into a highly objective based situation and have to work with people you've never seen before.

We need options, not to be forced into one kind of gameplay.

@Dargoth

SE has already publicly announced that "All non-instanced dungeons" will be turned into Instanced dungeons.

Well .. i prefer istancend content. They're more strategic and studied for "x number ppl" ... for example you can go to the stronghold and kill the bossess in 50.. Wow, fun right? But ppl still gets achievment from it.. With istancend/limited number dungeon, you can have really better designed content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiote

SE has already publicly announced that "All non-instanced dungeons" will be turned into Instanced dungeons.

---

Thank the Twelve.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiote

Or in the case of a Content finder you are shoved into a highly objective based situation and have to work with people you've never seen before.

---

Or you make a party with 3 other people from your LS and then get shoved into a highly objective based situation with people you know and also don't know.

Most the time I join a random XP party I don't know anyone else in the party, on the odd occasion I may have played with one before but not enough to say I know that person.

On the other hand almost all end game content I do is with my LS or people I know.

Exactly lol, thank the 12. I feel FFXIV is aimed at suffocating those who used 3rd party programs. And Instanced Dungeons completely cuts their oxygen supply. No way will there be a repeat of the events that occurred occasionally in FFXI's king camps and various other open world NMs/HNMs' areas.

I hate this cross-server anti-MMO design philosophy.

Just keep everything as non-instanced as possible as per the original FFXIV for gods sake.

I dont want to play a stupid instanced game lobby

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xatsh

I despise the thought of the game being mainly instances... horrible mechanics for a mmo considering the genre was designed to have a whole world instead of the dungeon crawler type gameplay.

Unfortunately if they want to have dungeon finder... you have to instance the world or it simply will not work. That is the issue with the whole dungeon finder regressionary movement WoW started. Sacrifices community, guild unity, the feeling of being in a world for ease of gameplay for those who do not want to make/find a party.

With Yoshida's mind made up already with the want a instanced style online game to make all the casuals happy... I feel the complaining about instancing everything is a waste of time though.

Instancing some of the game = great.... instancing all of the game = stupid design and decision making by the devs.

---

Wow if even Xatsh (power fanboi) is upset, you know it's a bad idea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kiote

SE has already publicly announced that "All non-instanced dungeons" will be turned into Instanced dungeons.

---

thank you SE for making instanced dungeons.